Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Building a dam wind pump / river pump?

In consideration for my future pond I need to find a water source. The terrain is very flat and no creeks run through it. Not sure on the water table but I suspect in the driest part of the summer it would get very low. there is a very large river on the edge of my property however it is 20-30 feet down a hill. Has anyone heard of a wind driven pump that might be able to pump at least some water? The pond will be about 2.5 acres. Not sure how much evaporation occurs plus seepage but it seems like if a wind driven pump could do 20 gallons a day even that might be enough. Another thought is the river has a good steady current. water driven pump?? I just see all that water down there and would like to come up with a natural solution vs an electric pump as I currently do not have electric service or a well. Thanks
RK

20 gallons a day is very, very low in the realm of overcoming seepage or evaporation. Pond supply pumps need to deliver in excess of 20 gallons per minute to have much affect.

One neat way to use a flowing stream to pump water is called a "ram pump". There has not IIRC been a whole lot of discussion of ram pumps here, but Dr. Mark Cornwell had an article in the July-August 2008 issue of PBMag that explained the concept behind them and showed pictures of one.

20 GPM?!!!! That's 28,000 gallons a day. Not to question a Lunker but did you mean 20 GPH??

Nope it is actually that much. Here are some calculations assuming the pond is 2.5 acres.

2.5 acres x .25 inch of evaporation(that may be high for your area) x 27,152 gallons per acre inch= 16,970 gallons of water lost per day

16970 gal / 24 hr. / 60 min. = 11.78 gallons per minute.

So you will need at least 11.78 gallons per minute to maintain the water level.

Theo suggests a very good solution that hadn't occurred to me. A ram pump or even 2 if needed would be the way to go with a river close by. After the initial cost of the pump you would only have to maintain the system.
But do some testing to see what you have before delving into to many hypothetical.

Here's some info on ram pumps with elevation and flow rate charts.
http://www.bae.ncsu.edu/programs/extension/publicat/wqwm/ebae161_92.html

Thanks. That's interesting. Never heard of those. However in my case it won't work. I have no way of getting the pump lower than the source of water. The river can vary in height by some 20 feet depending on the season. Spring run off is incredible. I'm now looking at solar or wind. Seems like maybe I should just dig a 10 foot deep test hole and see how if fills up on it's own and then I'd have some idea if the property is even a good candidate.
RK

Depending on how long till you have power at the pond maybe the best alternative is use a gas powered pump to bring water from the river when the pond needs it. They can pump alot of water in a short time.
Wind powered pumps can be pretty expensive and variable depending on your average wind speeds.
Good luck, you've got lots of homework.

You ever get that feeling your about to get into a huge project / can of worms that you have absolutely no way to justify and it's going to cost a lot of money and a lot of time and it's probably a really dumb idea because you have a million other obligation but.... your probably gonna do it anyway... feeling. ha
RK

Welcome to the insane, but fun world of pond ownership.
Many friends and relatives won't understand putting all that money into a wet hole in the ground!

I spent a better part of one summer putting 4 drive point wells in my back yard. My wife was not happy! By the time I was all done I know I had over a grand in the thing [ I forgot to mention that part]. But hey... I am saving $200 a summer in my lawn water bill!! Another 6 years it will have paid for itself yee haa. At which point the screens will be plugged and I would need to start over..NOT!!

Anybody have any idea what the electric bill would be to run a 720 GPH pump? $40-$50 a month???? I really don't know. I was hoping for a natural solution but solar and wind would start to look like my sprinkler analogy. By the time I blow all that coin I probably could have paid for electric for 10 years! Plus it seems much more unreliable. I kinda linking plug it in and go.

I like the gas pump idea to get it filled.
RK

RK, I could be wrong, but an electric pump able to pump that volume up a 20 to 30 ft hill would have to atleast draw 1000 watts, maybe more. thats 10 to 15 cents per hr.
Many people supply their ponds from wells, and they could give you an idea of electricity costs, Cecil Baird could probably give you a good idea of costs.

Yea that's kinda what I am worried about. No magic solution. Wish I had my own little nuke plant. Thanks for the imfo!
RK

Pumps for ponds are seldom a realistic alternative. One inch of water over a one acre area is 27,000 gallons. Figure how many gallons per minute a pump can produce and look at the power costs.

Have you looked into a PTO driven pump? Does anybody on the forum have experience with one of these? Way back when I was in high school we got to take 2 weeks off school to do what we called "senior project". You volunteered at a hospital, school, state park..etc. I worked with the the conservation guys at a local power plant lake. One day we when out to fill a growout pond (1/2 acre?)that was alongside the main lake. They backed a PTO driven pump into the lake and ran a hose to the pond. It was over 15 years ago but what I remember is that we were able to fill the pond in one day. The hose was over 18 inches wide and shot water several feet out. It was a good sized JD tractor running it (4010 maybe) but I was amazed at the amount of water it could move. I would guess this type of pump is best used to move lots of water a short distance. You might want to look into seeing if this type of pump is available for rent locally provided you have a tractor to run it.

Govsux I just finished reading your other threads that have the pic of the river you mention. The banks of the river look to steep to safely use a tractor. A good sized gas driven pump may be the better option.

I have a Ford tractor and in fact I do have a PTO driven pump but yes that hill is WAY too steep and I don't think this pump has enough lift to deal with that 20 feet or so. I am hoping the groundwater itself will be high enough. I can't wait to dig the hole AND see what it looks like in September! I found local well information and all the wells in the area report clay down to 40 feet. yellow clay then blue clay. If I can find just a small strain of sand /gravel might be it will fill it up a decent constant level. Hope so!!

You can rent 3" or 4" gas powered pumps for $ 50-60 per day plus gas,,,,,,,, but you need to be careful about total lift and distance the water has to travel to get to the pump. In ideal situations a 4" pump can pump an incredible amount of water in one 24 hour period....

Don't want to be negative, but I wouldn't tell anyone what you're
doing, and DON"T ask for any help from any Government Agency!!!