Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain Growing Three Pound Bass

A forum member of “broncofan” has a 1 acre pond in Taylor TX, that is three yrs old and his goals are to grow some three pound bass. This thread started as a private message and was transferred to this topic for everyone to read and maybe get some helpful info.

Broncofan starts with: Here some introductory facts. It is a 1 acre pond. next to it is a 1/4 acre pond. This is my 3rd year. The large rain last year caused the 1/4 acre pond to overflow into my actual bass project. In the 1 acre pond. the water clarity is pretty clear. Each spring i have stocked it with 80 , 4-6" CNBG. and on the first year 70 4-6 inch RES. I don`t fertilize. It could possibly use it. last year i added 3 grass carp and they seemed to disappear but i did notice them eating and causing the water to stain, my guess is the bacteria is causing a good staining through them digesting all the plant matter. Even in the summer there was very little vegitation. I think those along with most of my bass have gotten flushed away . So i added 18 5-6 inch bass, trying not to over do it. The feeding problem with me is i will only feed by hand occasionally. I do see cnbg 4-6 inch come feed. So for me I believe a awesome forage is my way to go!!. I’ve thrown cast nets and have found 2 1/2 inch cnbg. So yes there is a supply of CNBG. I was thinking of getting 4 more grass carp, I have a belief they(the bass) hide very well in the vegeation. What kind is it, I believe something resembling hydrilla type ? I think Bob Lusks book is in order. But hey, i like to hear from all sides!!! So what about planning on a number like a total of 400 4-6"cnbg and tilipia each spring any suggestions?

Cody replys:
I'm not seeing anywhere in your posts about what size and how many bass you stocked the first time. 1. Did you stock minnows along with BG first, then let them reproduce, then the next yr introduce bass?
2. How much and how often have you fished the pond when you were catching the 12" bass?.
3. How old were they at 12"?
4. Have you created HOOK SHY bass at this early stage?
5. Have you tried fishing with live bait or smaller 2"-2.5" BG?

I tend to agree with Bob and some others that it is rare for lots of bass to move out of a pond that has high water when it is overflowing. Maybe a few bass might leave but not the majority.
6. When you do catch a bass what is its weight vs length?

If you are having to add BG each spring then it is likely you have too many bass eating the BG.

How much of the 1 acre is covered with the suspected Hydrilla? Just edges and out 6-8 ft from shore? OR is 25% or 50% of surface of the pond covered?

Broncofan:
It`s not hydrilla just looks like, unsure of it, maybe milfoil. basically it is 2 feet out from the bank, grows in a ring around the pond, let`s say a 6-8 foot ring of it in the shallows. i`d give it 25%. when i do catch bass they are 10-13 inch. o.k the first i stock this pond i was new to everything. so i bought 40 fingerlings. bass 3-4 inch. the pond had lots of sunfish , only greenies, noticing that i wanted to put bass in so i did. Now i`ve learned more of bg and the rep. of greenies. so i got rid of the greenies and stocked the cnbg and red ear. 240-70. Also , my impatience was a added several 10 inch bass fromm a neighbors pond. i`d say 12. I`ve fished the pond alot. I`ve caught alot of them in years past and took some smaller one`s say 8 inch transfered them to my smal;ler ponds. I also have causght 1 3 pounder artound 17 inches and put him in there. hopeing for better genes. but anyways. i only gave 10 pounds of fathead minnows with the original 40 figerlings. I never did alllow the cnbg to establish first, that`s why i have used only the 4-6 inch cnbg. when I started i just threw the bass in there , late r the cnbg, learning as i go along. just trying to get it right.

Cody replies:
Well you certainly have a hodgepodge or jumble of fish stockings. I suggest that you apply some patience to the fish community watch it and let it grow awhile. While you wait resist the temptation to fish it for bass too often. Frequent long duration fishing sessions will teach the bass to be hook shy and not bite as often. This makes accurate sampling by fishing the fish much more difficult. While you wait, focus on manually removing weeds, doing pond maintence, observing and feeding the fish or training more fish to eat pellets. Sometimes it is good to replace non-pellet eating fish with pellet eating fish. Non-pellet eating fish are usually skinnier than pellet eating fish. Fish that eat pellets will be growing better and healthier to produce large spawns.

Wait a year or two, let the fish grow and THEN check the growth and sizes that you have. Once bass are in your pond for 4-5 yrs there should be numerous 2.5-3 pounders. In my opinion overfishing a pond 1 acre or less for primarily bass can ruin the fishing for the long term. If you fish in the next yr or two, fish mainly for BG, redears and green sunfish.

I am not sure what you meant when you said - "Now i`ve learned more of bg and the rep. of greenies. so i got rid of the greenies." What is rep. of greenies? and How did you get rid of greenies?

Broncofan replies:
greenies compete with the bass for forage as bg have smaller mouths than the greenies and won’t compete as much, also they will spawn 3-5 times a year, as for greenies usually once a year. i fished them out greenies with crankbaits and 3 inch grubs!

Cody replies:
How many greenies do you think are still present. Can you still catch any in water 2-4 ft deep with worms, wax worms or traps?

Broncofan replies:
I haven`t seen any at all! I’ve only caught red ear and cnbg. i used too catch them on 2-3 inch grugs. or small crank baits, i havent seen any in over a year.

Cody replies:
not catching any greens is a good sign that the numbers have dramatically been reduced. Bass will target greenies as prey before BG or RES. Let the fishery develop for a year or two and the fish should be in pretty good shape.

Once the LMbass get to be 14"-15" long they should grow at least 1" per yr and gain about one pound with each increase of 1" length. If growth is less than that the forage base is not correct for optimum bass growth.

Broncofan replies:
So i guess what i will plan on is 4 grass carp and only talipia next spring if i can find them. Then evaluate the lmb growth as time goes by. I`m still tempted to add 50 more cnbg just to be assured, any problems with that?

Cody replies:
I would only add 6" CNBG IF there appears to be a short supply of larger BG. If 3"-5" BG are in short supply then you probably have too many bass - remove some. Lots of ponds have too many bass. Adding more adult BG to a pond at near carrying capacity of BG will only slow the growth of all BG unless they are being fed pellets. But if you have lots of adult BG and you are not harvesting them, why add more if the pond appears to have ample BG and bass are near your goal of 3 lb mark?.

Do not add more or any grass carp unless the weeds cover more than 20% of the pond bottom. I don't recommend using grass carp to prevent weed problems. Use GC to manage existing weeds to the 15%-20% coverage goal. BG need some weeds to help provide more forage invertebrates that live among the weeds. I don't think tilapia are necessary if your goal for bass is just 3 lbs. Tilapia are okay if you want to eat them.

This ended the initial discussion. If you have any comments, opinions or ideas you are very welcome to add to this discussion.

What is the body condition of the bass? You don't really need to do a WR(although it is helpful) but identify skinny, head too big for body, roly poly or ...

I would spend a lot of time looking at the forage base. Are all sizes and age classes represented?

Clear water MIGHT beg for fertilization but certainly not at this time of year. Be very careful here.

In a one acre water hole, I would, as Bill says, back off the bass fishing. Those guys get hook shy pretty quickly. I would also create coon food out of any small bass I see.

the bass aren`t football shape but i do see little lumps in their stomach from time to time, so they are eating.they don`t look skinny. and these are the 10- 12 inchers. what is a WR? I THEW A CAST NET AND CAUGHT A COUPLE 2 1/2 INCH BUT ONLY CASTED ONCE FIGURED THERE IS MORE.

I said wr but meant RW. It is the relative weight of your fish and an indication of general body condition and health. In other words, weight as related to length.

A good write up is at Greg Grimes website. Go to http://www.lakework.com. Click on the Articles thread and go down until you see a chart. Read the article associated with it.

When a pond is first stocked with forage fish, esp in the southern states, and allowed to age for 6 months (spring-summer)to a yr and THEN the predators (in this case LMbass) are stocked at a slighlty reduced number per acre (based on water fertility) one can expect to easily see 2 lb(north) to 4 lb(south) bass in 2-3 yrs.

Another way to do this is to stock pellet trained bass, feed them high protein Aquamax carnivore diet and when they reach 14"-15" switch them over to the AQUAMAX Largemouth food that consits of a high protein nutritionally balanced ration primarily for bass and other larger predators. Actually the nutrition content of the pellet was developed by Purina to mimic the nutrient content of a trout. Bass, even northern strain bass, raised this way grow very rapidly with great body condition (high RW) and three pound bass as just 16" long fat fish could be raised in 2 yr after stocking. Bass raised on Aquamax Largemouth are reported to gain 1.5 to 2 lbs per year. Since broncofan did not do this, he is having to play catch up as far as good or rapid bass growth. Once he gets the fish numbers under control and not too many fish trying to eat a limited food source he should be soon seeing some 3 pound bass. Maybe in a yr or two doing the suggested things.

This is a great thread. It raised some questions for my pond. I don't have any vegitation in my pond. I am going to look into some vegitation that will not overrun my pond. Without vegitation is it possible to have a good BG population.

Yes you can have a good BG population without rooted vegetation. However a moderate amount of submerged leafy plants provides habitat for a virtual buffet of numerous kinds of invertebrates. Plus it prodices cover to help with good BG recruitment. More food better BG. This subject is all based on what is defined as a "good BG population". For some it is just a lot of 3"-5" BG to feed lots of 15"-18" bass, for others it is a population of BG where there is a normal size range and balance of all sizes of BG up to 7"-8.5" long for an annual cropping for table use / eating, and for others they want to populaiton of BG to be dominated by larger fish in the 6"-9" range where bass are abundant and small 9"-13". Still for others they want just male BG that enter the population at abt 8" and grow to trophy sized fish of 10"-12". Everyone has a different idea of good BG population.

Basically a good BG population, regardless of definition, is primarily about proper population control or adjustment and ample food be it natural or pellet.

Its good to have healthy bass but a few bass always seem to be the exception I fished a pond once that had not been fish in years we caught 30 12in bass and 3 18in bass now if all the bass are stunted then why were there 18in bass my guess is some bass just find a way to break away from the norm somehow. Keep skinny 12in bass leave the fatter ones thats my philosphy. That and forage forage forage.

I thimk the reason i`ve struggled to produce my goal fish is that someone has been fishing them out. I found another 10 pound saoftshell turtle dead on the shore , but this one was inside a tire and it`s head sliced up, evidence someone had to have caught him. no wonder i`ve struggled.

Poaching could have a lot to do with your apparent problem.