Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Help identifying minnow/fish?

Can someone help me identify these little fellows? They showed up in my new pond, without asking. I put in GSH fry 3 weeks ago. Seems to big to be those guys. I put n med FH at same time. Doesn't look like any of them. Otherwise, I haven't put in any fish at all. Are these my GSH growing that super fast?Any help from you expert identifiers would be appreciated. [IMG]http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh320/pondsea/minnow1.jpg

Second try:[IMG]http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh320/pondsea/minnow1.jpg

okay, 3rd strike:
Hallelujah

another angle at the same little guys

Look like Centrarchids, specifically Lepomids (Sunfish: BG/RES/GSF etc.) to me.

Thanks Theo. That makes sense. I haven't stocked any yet so it was a mystery to me. My guess is that the little brook that filled my pond had some holdovers from the past that somehow survived the draining and pond construction.

REALLY good pictures, btw. Been paying attention to ewest's photo ID tips?

matter of fact I have tried to pay attention to ewest's tips. He has also helped me on a few other questions from time to time. I am now thnking i do not need to buy any more perch, or RES until I see these little fellows mature. No need to spend the money if I have thousands of them already, if that is what they are of course. Do you think I can go ahead and stock 6-9 inch LMB? I was thinking about 300 in my 5 acre pond. Is that too many at that size to start out? Will they vacuum up all those little fish too quickly? I also now have a zillion tadpoles along all the banks. Will the LMB feed on those?

Lets see if we get any other comments. Bill - what do you think? Anyone else. I have a few observations but am just not positive what we are looking at but they are not GShiners or FH. My guess later.

I'll bite ewest, I think they might be largemouth fry, the mouth size is very large for a lepomis. If so, then this would throw a monkey wrench in the current stocking plans.

I'm guessing Green Sunfish.

Here are a couple of other pics of the mysterious nessies from other angles:

Green Sunfish would be my second guess. Body shape and mouth size are a very good match.

http://www.smm.org/warnernaturecenter/animals/greensunfish/

I don't think my vote ever made a difference, but I'm pulling the lever for smallmouth blackbass.

Is the dark line on the fish's side internal or external ?


Lepomis cyanellus - Green Sunfish Morphology
Description: The Green Sunfish (Lepomis cyanellus) is a member of the family Centrarchidae, or sunfishes. The body is elongated and compressed. It can grow up to ten inches in length. The caudal fin is homocercal (as in all sunfishes) and forked. There is only a slight notch between the spinous and soft portions of the dorsal fin. The dorsal fin has nine to eleven spines and eleven soft rays. The anal fin base is shorter than the base of the dorsal fin. There are three spines and thirteen or fourteen rays on the anal fin. Pelvic fins are present, adipose fin is absent. The pectoral fin is short and rounded. The upper jaw is longer than the lower jaw, and extends to around the middle of the eye, which is large. The coloration of the fish varies between breeding and non-breeding individuals. When not breeding, the fish is often pale to dark green, sometimes with darker vertical bars on the sides. There are distinct blue or green markings on the sides of the head, and there is often a black spot near the base of the dorsal and anal fins. When breeding, male Green Sunfishes gain dark coloring in the fins.

Come on ewest, throw me a bone here! just how can you tell by looking that it's not a smallie? I hate these "fry" tests

Eastland I did not say what I thought the fish are. Not a GShiner or FH.

I posted the GSF info to see if anyone wanted to apply it to the pics.

I hope Pondsea sees this and answers my question.

As I stated earlier I am not so sure what we are looking at. -

I am positive they are not bass (LMB or SMB). Theo is correct they are some sort of Lepomis and maybe but not likely hybrids. Body height is too high for a bass and bass that size will have dark tail bands esp SMB. Since they are from a stream, larger mouth indicates high chance green sunfish as Bruce suggested. Fish or trap the stream and it is likely one will catch some of the adults.

From copying the pic and enlarging you can tell the fish have all the morphology of a GSF. My only question is as noted above, is the dark line internal or external. If external then I don't know what it is. I did some checking and can find no pic or written info where GSF have been noted with a dark lateral line/marking like a LMB.

sorry to be so long getting back, I was down at the pond looking for adults as Bill suggested. ewest, the dark line is internal, made more prominent in the pictures by the lighting I had to use to take the pics. I looked downstream of the pond and found under the spillway pipe about 10 adults that must have got sucked down the pipe when we had so much rain. I will take some pics when I can, but they did seem to be green sunfish by the looks of one small stunted adult that had been washed up on dry ground. I don't know how they got in my pond, but more than likely they were holdovers from a tiny pool in a small stream that fed the pond during heavy rain. I had never seen them though, so it came as a surprise to find them thriving and spawning evidently. How will this affect my plans to stock LMB 6-9 inch? Will they forage on these too quickly, or will they keep pace with LMB feeding?

If using advanced fingerling LMB (6-8in)in a pond with no adult large predators (LMB , NP , cats etc) then use fewer per acre than with 2in stockers. I will be using similar LMB this fall in a 12 acre lake and am only using 400. 30 per acre is enough.

The GSF will be ok. They will eat some FH and GShiner fry. What is your BG status? That is where you may need to focus.

Thanks for the tip. I will keep the LMB to about 150 and see how it goes. The BG is what I would definitely like to stock. I did not plan on GSF, they showed up uninvited. I would like to get the BG established. How will the competition between the BG and GSF go? I can always feed if I have to. The food chain at present consists of zillions of tadpoles, good population of crawfish and the FH and GSH.

LMB will prefer to eat GSF over BG because the greens are slimmer. GSF reproduction will not keep up with BG fecundity and the BG should not have trouble staying ahead of the GSF in numbers.

That's good to know. Would 500 BG be a good start for 5 acre pond, or should I start with more? They will be 1-3 inchers accord to the fish truck.

More would be better. Small BG fingerlings like that are normally stocked 500/acre in a new pond, often 1000/acre down South.

If you could get bigger BG, fewer would do. We usually recommend 50 adults/acre to start a BG population.

You could also mix sizes and get a good start.