Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Need some help from the Pond management MASTER!

I have a few questions about a 15 year old pond and how to mange the bluegill and bass together.

Some info about the pond. It is a 3 acre pond. It has 3 aerator's. It is 15 years old, it was stock with bass for the first 10 years and was stocked with bluegill the first 5 years. It has not been stock with anything in 5 years.

Now my questions. I believe that I have to many bluegill in the pond you cant cast anywhere without getting a nibble from a bluegill. The bluegill really are not trophies at all. The largest one I have caught is 8inch. So what I was thinking of doing is taking all of the bluegill from 2" to 8" and taking them out of the pond. I want the pond to be a trophy bluegill lake and bass lake. What would this do to the bass popluation and growth?

The bass in the lake seem to be doing good as far as heathlyness. I have notice there are fewer bass every year but they seem to be getting fat er every year. But I do know that they are reproducing because I will catch a small young bass every so often. So what would happen if I do the bluegill thing like I said up in the other paragraph?

All of the help will be great. I dont know if this is just the cycle of the lake or if the bluegill are eating to much of the forage.

Thanks, the help will be great!!!

ZM: (Consider the following until a Master comes along. I haven't snatched any pebbles yet, but I'm still trying.)

I believe you have described one end of the common BG-LMB spectrum: overpopulated, stunted BG and few, large LMB. There are too many BG for most of them to get enough to eat. They probably are skinny (poor relative weight) and I bet they have large eyes for their body size.

Bass recruitment is limited by the huge hordes of small hungry BG eating bass eggs and fry. The few bass that manage to make it past fingerling size to adulthood have a large number of BG to eat, hence they have very good body condition. Your pond is likely at or near "Trophy Bass" status. Many PMs here would be happy to have that pond as their very own; by making minor adjustments (at most) it would be their dream lake.

If BG numbers were reduced, by angling, as you have proposed, or (perhaps) by the introduction of predators with middlin' sized mouths who are efficient at eating small BG, average BG condition and size should improve. There would be more BG food available, on average, for fewer BG. The opposite affect on the bass would tend to happen - since they would have fewer small, eatin' sized BG available, they would not be in as good a condition as they are now. There would, however, be more of them, as fewer small BG would mean bass recruitment would improve.

It is very, very hard to have BOTH trophy BG and trophy LMB in the same pond, and when this condition exists, it tends to be unstable and the average body condition of one or both species will likely decline soon. So you need to decide which kind of trophy fish is most important to you. If that is the bass, you would not want to remove many BG, but rather consider the minor, "higher tech" tweaking which would help improve bass quality (such as improving LMB genetics or stocking an additional forage species like Threadfin Shad - if you were far enough South for them to overwinter). Buy Bob Lusk's "Raising Trophy Bass" book; read and follow it.

If you want trophy BG most of all, congratulations, you are in Nebraska, the trophy BG capital of the world. Lots of BG will need to be removed (smallest, oldest, poorest condition, most stunted). Additional predators (LMB or HSB or ???) would benefit the pond. Buy Bob Lusk's "Basic Pond Management" book; read and follow the instructions (or alternatively, buy "Raising Trophy Bass" and do everything the book says backwards)(not really). Dr. Bruce Condello can be called in to bless your BG and give you a membership at BigBluegill.com (sort of a Pond Boss subsidiary).

If both species are important, you may have to make some of the moves toward a trophy BG pond, stopping when the mythical "balanced fishery" is achieved. (They DO exist, but they are also not stable without continuing management and adjustment). If you notice that all most of the management shemes require "work" to adjust them, remember that a great big part of that "work" is fishing.

Good job Theo. You're getting the hang of snatching those pebbles.

ZoomMaster as Theo says to start making a change in your fishery you will need to decide it you want the pond to go more towards large panfish or larger bass. Having both is difficult. There have been past posts here about that very topic. Use Search to go back through old posts about relative topics. As Theo mentioned your ponds appears to be on one end of the BG-LMB fishery balance spectrum. From what you describe your pond is not at the full end of the spectrum but my rough estimate is it is possibly within 20-25% of one end of the spectrum - complete BG dominance. Since you notice some young bass that is a good sign. It can be more easily managed toward the goals Theo proposed - trophy panfish vs large bass. Since the pond is around 3 acres it could require that a lot of BG be removed. YOu might need assistance with BG removeal by using traps, seining, or electroshocking beside just angling.

ZoomMaster, are you feeding your bluegill?

I am not feeding my BG I think I will go with the trophy LM bass. More stocking is not an option I eather am going to let the pond go through its natural cycle or try and kill off how ever many BG it take.

How many BG will I need to take out.

The water temp is around 55 degrees so I have a week or so until spawn.

If you're going with trophy bass, I'm not sure you want to take many if any out. This big bream enthusiast will defer to the big bass boys for further advice, other than to (again) recommend getting "Raising Trophy Bass."

ZM, taking bluegill is not the way to grow large bass. I agree with Theo you need more info from proper sources then reevulaute what you have, sounds like it could be headed toward trophy bass already. Are most of the bluegill 4-6 inches in size? If so you basically have trophy bass type situation. If you mean you catch tons of large bluegill, Theo will be mad your complaining about that. Study some more then once you have a handle on what is going on then you can make the educated decision.

Looking,lurking,hopefully learning.Lots of looks but very few posts

Hi ZM - I too am in Lincoln [go Skers!] and am very interested in this post as it certainly may apply to many of us out there. I have a question for all the veterans out there: Would investing in a feeder help ZM manage size for both species? Or, what is the general consensus on introducing a couple of male Flatheads to help thin out the BG? Would they also prey on the LB population? I'm a big Flathead fan - but I might be representing a thin minority here.
Look forward to the feedback on this subject - good luck ZM!

ya most of the BG are 4"-7" already so what do I need to do to get trophy bass just let them grow?

Zm, yes if you have 4-7 inch bluegill that is a good sign. Check out the relative weight of the bass. report back with the results. I think you are on track for good bass fishing. Might have to start program on removing small bass if you start catching high numbers of those while letting larger bass go back in the pond. Lots to learn but this is the oplace to do it. And yes adding fish food to grow more pounds of bluegill is good way to grow more bass.

tee if you like flatheads then add some BUT fully realize here in the south I have seen too many times a few flatheads wipe out almost the entire populaiton, so all that is left is a few really fat flatheads. Not the scenario most pond owners would like.

Would one of those green lights that you put in the water to actract zoo plaction. would that help fatten up the BG?

I will take a photo of all of the bass I catch and post them on here.

The light might work, but so would a fluoresecent buggy whip attractant that brings flying insects to your pond side during the evening. Keep in mind that anything you do to reinforce the condition of your bluegill will probably find it's way to the bass. I would think that 50-100 pounds of feed, in a smaller size, perhaps Aquamax Grower 500, would fatten the bluegill, and possibly increase growth from the 3 inch up to the 5 inch size, and this would yield better bass body condition. If you truly want trophy bass, follow the advice above, and consider a modest feeding program. I think you're pretty close. I would love to see a photo of one of these bass ZM! Go Huskers!

What is the "bug Whip" thing you are talking about and is it battery powered? I dont want to run anymore boxes down to my pond.

Yes they are electrically powered, but I think you could find an easy way to run it by batteries. I'll try to run a search later for the threads on buggy whips.

Zoom Master, we sell BoJO fish light. Plug into any outlet you already have. It only cost about $0.06/night to run it. http://www.bo-jofishlight.com/

Keep in mind about the green light it will not make anymore zooplankton but might make it easier for the bluegill feed. Also the bojo helps to keep bugs off you and is free food. However, it is not a replacement of a fish feeder or feeding high protein fish pellets.

Could I hand feed them. I dont have anywere to but a feeder and I dont want to buy one. Would had feeding them once or so a week do any good?

Probably some good. It can't really hurt that much as long as you are not throwing in vast quantities of food that go uneaten. Throw the food in the same area, preferably at the same time of day to train the fish. It might take awhile if you're inconsistent.

So basiclly what you are saying. Is that if I get the bluegill fatter than it will make my bass big.

Will my bass population go down because I have more and bigger bluegill? Or what is the purpuse of doing this. Is it so the bluegill wont eat the bass fry?

Zoom Master,

Let me take a stab at this. It's true that if your bluegill are fatter, it will make your bass bigger as well. More pounds of forage = more pounds transferred to the bass, though it takes 10 lbs of forage to put 1 lb on a bass.

Your bass population will go down if you have more and bigger bluegill. This is because more bluegills means more predators for the yoy bass. More yoy bass being eaten will give you fewer bass in the long run. The bluegill will still eat the bass fry no matter what you do, though I suppose they might eat fewer bass yoy if they're on pellets also.

Fewer bass is actually a good thing if your goal is trophy bass. The fewer the bass, the bigger the rest of the bass can get. More bass (more competition for a BG meal) = smaller average size on your bass. Supplemental feeding, fertilization, and aeration, among other things, can all enhance how many pounds of fish your pond can carry.

In the end, though, it is difficult to have large numbers of bass that are "trophy" size, and it is even harder to keep it that way. From my own experience, it seems to me that those of us who manage for bass have a choice to make:

Do we want fewer trophy bass or more, smaller bass? Personally, I want as many 3-6 lb bass as the pond can hold. Catching the occassional double-digit bass will be GREAT, but that is not what I'm after.

Assuming we can't "have it all," figure out what you really want out of your pond and act accordingly.

Links to pond balance and forage to predator fish interaction. These should help you understand what the guys are telling you Zoom.


Fish Population and Size Analysis -- from the archives (contains many of the following links plus some more)
http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92492#Post92492


Bass, Bass, Bass everywhere
http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...ite_id=1#import


How do you know when to stop harvesting your bass
http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=23959&fpart=1


Case History of a N.E. Texas Pond -- with excellent links to prior threads
http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...ite_id=1#import

The basic principle as set out in one thread (see red).

One of the tell-tale signs of an overcrowded LMB pond is the absence of 3-4 in BG (or other species of the same size). This was and is the basic premise of the seine survey method developed by Dr. Homer Swingle ( a truly great scientist) in the 1940s. The concept is you can assess the predator population by the size and condition of the prey base. No 3-4 inch BG usually means to many LMB in the size range 3 to 4 times the prey size. No or few 3-4 in. BG means to many 10-12in. LMB.

The corollary to this principle is if you see in the seine surveys increasing numbers of 3-4 inch BG (and yoy BG and LMB) then the LMB population is changing to a more balanced status . Recall the prey are reflecting what is occurring in the predator population as well as their own.
Here is a link to the MSU Pond Mgt. Book. Look at the text and charts on pages 10-12 on population assessments and the Texas Pond Mgt. book same subject pgs 16-20 .

http://msucares.com/pubs/publications/p1428.pdf Miss

http://www.sdafs.org/tcafs/manuals/tcafs_pond_manual_2005.pdf Texas

Nice post ewest. I vote for archiving that one!