Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Corrective stocking Hauling and stocking threadfin shad - HELP!!

I have been on a mission to try to obtain threadfin shad for my 80 acre lake in California for the last year. We lost our shad population a few years ago and the bass fishery changed and suffered as a result. I love shad I think even more than the bass do..lol.. I find a lake is much easier to fish when shad are present as the bass are easier to locate, roam more in packs making multiple catches easy, and plus allow anglers to catch fish with more lures and presentations. Besides this, the overall weight of the bass in all size classes have much higher RWs.

I have found a fish producer approx. 3 1/2 hours from me who says he can supply me shad IF I buy bluegill, so he can make one haul to me. He is leery on whether or not his plan of transporting 200 lbs. of adult (3 - 5") shad will make it or not to my lake, so he wants me to buy bluegill.

I would like to know if there any trick to successfully hauling shad? I have read in a SRAC document that adding 4 lbs. of non-iodized salt plus 8 grams of MS-22 per 100 gallons of hauling water, oxygen at 7 - 8 ppm, and reducing hauling tank temperature with ice will work.

Is this all there is to it? I want to let the guy know to increase the odds the shad will make it as they are what I really want..not the bluegill. Any help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED for those who have hauled and or raised shad please.

My lake temperature is now 60 degrees in the AM and heats to 65 degrees in the afternoon. The lake is extremely fertile and has depths to 65'. I would like to get the shad soon so I can get a spawn off of them as soon as the water maintains 65 degrees (should happen in the next week or two).

On a side note, in the same SRAC article (s) there is a comment that threadfin shad have been successfully introduced into a lake by transferring the egg-laden spawning material directly to the stocking lake. Has any fish producer here done this? If so what material would you use to hold the eggs? I was thinking of trying air condition screens in a roll form. What I would do is go to a lake down the road that is loaded with shad and set out the spawn screens to have them floating vertically in 3' - 5' of water (float on top and leaded at the bottom). Then I could check them a few times a week and once I see the bubble eggs on the screen, roll the screen up in to small sections, drop them in 30 gallon trash cans filled with lake water and then place the screens in my lake. Would this work??

Thanks guys!!!

Dave

DaveB :

TShad are not easy to catch and move from the hatchery as they stress and die easily. Some hatcheries will not transport them in the really hot mths. here. Why don't you email Greg Grimes and Todd at Overton's if they do not reply here. An alternative strategy would be to catch some by net at the lake you mentioned and put them in a protected area (blocking net to close off a cove) in your lake to spawn. Repeat that process a few times to start your population. What happened to the prior population? Also I would want to know exactly how the guy will handle and transport them.

todd@overtoncentral.com

greg@lakework.com

Thanks for the reply East West.

I understand the difficulty of transporting these fish as they are fragile. The fish farmer has them in big numbers in his catfish farms and obtaining them is not a problem with his 500' long nets. He said he plans to haul approx. 50 pounds per tank for a total of 200 lbs. in addition to a few thousand 5" - 6" coopernose in the other 4 tanks.

Finding them is easy in lakes nearby, having the ability to net large quantities and then transport them (I don't own a hauling truck, nor want to get in that business) is another matter.

Moving them to my lake and putting them in a enclosed area would be expensive in net material. I would rather have them move offshore into deep water (I have almost 70' in depth, school up, recover from the move, then come inshore and spawn when ready. If they are full of roe and ready to spawn (like they are now or son to be) when I plant them they should do fine from other guys I know who have done it. My question is more on the best way one hauls them so I can let the guy know what I understand might work to bring these shad to me in top condition.

We lost our shad due to freak cold weather, rain, muddy water condition with already low shad population due to low water level and heavy bass predation.

Any help on my questions would much appreciated.

Dave

I will see what I can find for you. Start with these.

http://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm?catid=18

This is a good article.

http://www.ca.uky.edu/wkrec/SALTTRANS.htm

email Todd and Greg at addresses in my post above.

Thanks East West I mentioned that I had read the SRAC articles.

The http://www.ca.uky.edu/wkrec/SALTTRANS.htm article was very informative. It brings up the question then of using MS-22 in addition to salt?

It said "Various chemical additives have been used to transport live fish. With few exceptions, there is little evidence to support claims of any real benefit. Research has shown that anesthetics can produce the same stress response as handling. However, anesthetics are beneficial for calming excitable fish that might injure themselves in transit."

Now that conflicts with the SRAC articles.

I have emailed Greg and Todd and am looking forward to their reply here or email.

Any other help would be great. I learned early in life the more questions one asks, the more one can learn..never stop learning. This is an amazing web site / magazine! There is no better place that I know of to expand ones knowledge on pond and lake management than Pond Boss...period!

Love to hear what the experts have to say on using my idea of screens for free shad eggs to help establish shad in a lake. Anyone?

Dave

DaveB :

That is why I suggested the blocking net. Not to add all the TShad behind it but to add a few breeders to spawn hatch the eggs and start over. An ongoing way to add TShad. Eggs are fragile and I don't know if you could move them to a different location and hatch them. Yoy fry are even more fragile than adults.

I would think that the eggs would be tougher than the fish? They are pretty firm to the touch from the ones I have seen over the years stuck to drift wood, dock floats and such. Fry fragile...yes..eggs sticking to the outside and inter weavings of a mesh material like air condition screen and then placed directly into a 30 gallon trash can filled with lake water and then moved to the lake less than 15 minutes away..even add an areator...but don't think I would need it...why wouldn't that work?

Dave

DaveB :

It may well work. Eggs can be effected by light, temp, taking out of water, air or who knows what. This is my point if you move 20 pairs of TShad and put them behind a net or in a cage they can spawn at high rate (appx. at least 5000 per pair per spawn) that is 100000 eggs. That sounds easier than moving 100000 eggs. and they can keep on spawning. If you protect them for a few weeks then release the yoy you may be able to build up a viable population. With an established LMB population I don't know if the stocked adults will last long enough to produce enough offspring to start a viable ongoing population. They may need some help and protection to get there.

Dave,
Here's an answer people will want to save.
Believe it or not, threadfin shad are not that hard to haul. Rarely is hauling the problem. This is the step by step way to properly handle threadfin shad.
First, they must be carefully collected from the pond. The best way is to seine them loosely, allowing them free run of the net. Quietly and gently wade out with a wash tub and gather shad and water together. Don't worry about the count. Quickly and gently load into the haul truck with pond water from the same pond. Water should be salted with 3 pounds of salt per 100 gallons of transport tank water. Get an approximation of fish weight, and load no more than 1/3 pound of shad per gallon of water.
It's best to add the salt after the fish are loaded.
Be sure to run at least 4 liters per minute of diffused oxygen into the transport tank.
If you have trouble catching shad in a tub, use a long handled, very soft, 1/8" or 1/4" mesh dip net to "herd" the shad to the partially submerged tub. Never pour shad from a net. Let them swim out.
Also add an antibiotic to the transport tank. Less than one ounce of any good antibiotic will work.
Bring the shad to the vat shed, and pipe them into a round tank, if one's available. Have the vat full of pond water, salted.
Let the shad 'harden' for 5-6 hours, and then slowly flush overnight with fresh, clean well water if available.
After a day, well handled threadfins can be dipped, weighed and loaded, always handled in water. NEVER POUR THEM. Allow them to swim out of the net.
Transport at no more than 1/3 pound of fish per gallon of water. When a hauler gets greedy, all shad die. What this means is...if even a few too many threadfins are loaded, all will die. Load fewer, and pay a little more money. They are worth it.
Regarding MS-222, some hatcheries use it to slow the creatures down, but I rarely use it.
As you can see, handling adult threadfin shad is a methodical process. Screw up any stage and you lose shad.
Some people harvest with gill nets. Expect high mortality. Some people haul too many pounds per unit of water. Expect all to die.
Be gentle, be aware, use salt and antibiotic, and success will happen.
Regarding the eggs, that may be a workable method. I would sure give it a try. But, be sure to haul the eggs in a transport tank with oxygen to ensure they stay healthy.
Last, but not least, shad need food. They are filter feeders, gleaning plankton from the water column. Fertile water increases survival rates tremendously.
Have your hatchery guy cut the amount of shad poundage by half, and buy bluegill. If he is remiss, don't buy dead shad.
If he knows how to handle them, 3 1/2 hours is not big deal, especially done early in the morning. Do not, repeat..do not use ice to reduce temperature for threadfins. They haul fine in ambient temperature spring time water. Temper them with your lake water on arrival, but don't dally. Replace half, then do it again, using a small pump. Be done within twenty minutes, then pipe the fish straight into the lake in one place. Don't distribute them. More shad are eaten if you release in more than one place. Release near deepest water.
There's your quick school on threadfin shad.

Dave B. Bob as good advice above. Call Davis fish farm, you have their number from the bluegill I lined up. They are ahuling about 20 loads for me some wil be on truck with 2nd stop for 10 hrs. So 3.5 hrs is no biggie.

Also in the past when we had more time we caught them up out of reservoir. It is not difficult and you do not need to get a hauling truck just a pickup with good 10 gallon or so round tank from farm suppply , not a bad investment for what you do. A round tank I think is ciritical for hauling because they need to swim and if they go to corner in square tank they bangup their nose pretty bad.

We caught with cast net and dumped quickly in tub in boat. If they are up spawning usually we can find close to baot ramp After a few good cast run thme back to truck. In a few trips if conditions are right you can get several 1,000's. You can haul 3,000 2-3 inch shad in 100 gals. with some oxygen if not going tooo far to lake. Good luck!

Bob and Greg..what can I say...THANKS!!!

I will buy the shad and have him go with your guidelines. I will also try to get additional shad from a nearby lake if they will let me, plus will try the egg experiment as well.

Greg, I received the 48 porcupine attractor spheres (www.lakework.com) I purchased from you plus the tag guun and numbered tags. My hands are sore from cutting 1,248 / 30" pieces of 1/2" schedule 20 pvc...lol. Looking back I should have just bought 48 finished 5 1/2' complete porcupine attractors, as I don't know if I really saved that much if I consider the time to cut all this PVC.

The attractors look incredible! I will be placing them soon in groups of three in various depths on ledges, points, old river cuts and flats leading int the shallows. I will be running some 1/4" nylon cord up one of the legs and drilling a hole in the PVC where it comes to the sphere and then tying off to the hole that is built into the sphere. I will tie the cord to a 6" x 6" x 8" concrete block to anchor so that don't roll of the ledges or steeper areas. I probably don't need to anchor them in the shallows, but I don't want guys pulling them up and moving them once I locate them in stargetic locations. I tell you what, these porcupine units blow away the 250 Christmas trees (talk about a lot of work and expense in concrete) I put in last year that are already breaking down and a nightmare at snagging lures! I wish I had this product earlier.

Cheers,

Dave

good to hear it take some pics of the attractors if you get the chance.

Bob and Greg:

Thanks for all your help. I received approx. 150 lbs. of 3" - 6" threadfin shad to the lake last month. Drive time was approx. 3 1/2 hours and I don't think I lost more than 10 lbs. total of dead shad. The hauler caught and transported the shad under the guidelines you provided me Bob. The hauler himself was impressed with the load he brought to me and how well they did. Thanks again for all your help with this.

The shad were put in the tanks by bucket at a ration of 20 lbs. per 100 gallons of water and he used the catch, temper and hauling with salt as you directed and a low pure oxygen flow. The shad came off the truck through the chute and were shot into a spot with 12' of water with close access to over 25' of water. The shad then almost immediately balled up and I saw three different balls swim toward the center of the lake. I cringed as I watched their bubble trail swim toward one of the basses favorite haunts, a long extended point. Once they went there I saw a bass boil, a fish hawk dive and then they veered off back to the safe zone of 60 feet of water. Last week, one of my guys saw three big shad balls moving through the trees back near the mouth of a old creek channel. He approached them and the groups converged into a 6' round ball and kept on their path through the trees in 10' of water. He said they were looking good and bouncing through the trees, unmolested by the bass. Sounds to me like they may have been spawning through this area. Water temp was a steady 65 degrees in the morning and even warmer later in the day. Anyhow, that was all great news to me! I have my fingers crossed that they have already or will be spawing soon.

P.S. - I LOVE SHAD!!!!!!!

Dave