I would appreciate some comments from you guys that might be able to help. My pond is 3 years old and is 2.5 acres. When built I added 10 tons of lime and the first year I got a good bloom. The 2nd year I could not get a bloom. In December of 03 I added 10 more tons of lime. Prior to adding I cheked my alkalinity with the Cole Parmer test kit that I was told was good for ponds on this web site. My alk was 15. My lime has been in going on 4 months and my alk is only up to 21ppm. I have fertilized twice once the middle of march water temp 60 to 70 based on the weather. No bloom. Perhaps water was a little cool. I used twice the amount to kick of the bloom. Waited two weeks water temp now 65 to 75 added 20 more pounds (calls for 4 lbs per acre) of water soluable pond fertilizer 5-54-10 still no bloom. This week my water turned a dark tea color and a few days later it was clear. Sechi disk visible at 30 inches. Do I wait a few days and fertilize again. I even thought about adding 200 lbs of hydrated lime then fertilize to get the bloom established. My ph is 7.65. All comments are appreciated. Thanks Guys.

Jake

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I urge caution. If you don't get a bloom you aren't going to kill your fish. If you overfertilize, a fish kill is a real possibility.

It is unclear from your post how much fertilizer you've added, but the way I read it you put in 40 lbs, then 20 lbs more. That should be PLENTY to get a bloom started, probably twice what you should have used. If your water temps aren't consistently over 70 degrees, and averaging in the upper 70's your bloom may not have happened yet.

How did you apply the fertilizer? My experience is that if it's not broken up and spread lightly, it can clump and rapidly sink to the bottom. I've been having good luck dumping it into the propwash or sprinkling it off of docks.

Last thing . . . have you had any big rains that might have washed out your fertilizer?

Fishman, My problem is that I cant get my alkalinity up even after adding 20 tons over two years of ag lime. My alk is only 16 I would think this is why I cant get a bloom. My pond is only 2.5 acres cant figure why I cant get the alk up. Thinking about just going with hydrated lime at a rate of 100lbs per acre. What do you think I should do.

Thanks Jake

Well, you've got the good test kit, so we can eliminate measurement as a possible source of error for your alkalinity. That's a lot of lime for so little return. I guess my question would be whether or not you distributed it uniformly around the pond. In order for the lime to be most effective, it's supposed to cover the entire pond bottom. How was the lime applied?

I have never used hydrated lime simply because I've never read a reliable source that recommends using it. Therefore, I can't tell you much of anything about it except that I personally wouldn't risk it.

Keep in mind that it takes a while at lower temps for a bloom to establish. Even with an alkalinity of 16, I would expect some bloom response. I find that in my area, consistent water temps of 70-75 degrees are needed for a bloom to establish.

One last thing. Be careful. Don't do something that may kill all your fish in an attempt to get just a little better fishing.

Big Jake, be careful with hydrated lime. To much will cause a fish kill. If you are going to try it use 50 lbs and test your water in a couple of days.

Thanks guys for your comments. I distributed the lime the old fashion way. A sheet of plywood on a wide johnboat, shovel on shovel off. Talk about work, man you couldnt pay me to do that but since it was my own lake you do what you gotta do.My water temps are consistently above 80 and still no bloom. I am checking the temp about 18 inches below the surface. Odly enoughf the temp only changes about 5 degrees from 18 inches to 7 foot. Perhaps the lake has not stratified yet. Any other ideas from you guys would be appreciated. I am going to go with the Hydrated lime but will take your advice and cut back and check the Alk again after adding about 150 lbs to my 2.5 acre pond. I will let you no the outcome.

Thanks, Jake

Jake, what's your rention time? IN other words how much flow do you have. You can measure the water coming out of the drain pipe and figure you volume to get how many days it takes to "retain your lake". If you have too much flow that could be the problem, fertilize not staying around.

I recommend ag lime but have used hydrated with good success. If we can not get ag lime in I have had good luck with 100 lbs/acre. You will have to do this every 4-12 weks depending again on flow. Good luck!

Greg, 3 to 4 gallons of water leaving the pond per minute. I have a deep water discharge on my pipe. What gets me is I have added 20 tons of ag lime over 2 years and my alk is only 15ppm. For this reason I think I should go with hydrated lime.

Thanks, Jack

That computes to a good retnetion time even if shallow. The deep water release should also be a big advantage. I'm scratching my head as well. I would try the hydrated to see if it works. Make sure to wear long sleeve shirt and dust mask that stuff is nasty.

How long does it take after adding the hydrated lime before I should add my fertalizer? I checked the alkalinity 24 hours after the addition and there was no change. I have been told that the change is immediate and others have said wait 5 to 10 days.

Thanks, Jake

Jake, the little I know about hydrated lime I would have thought you would see the change in 24 hours. Keep us updated when you test again.

Where is Midland, I am near Eatonton.

Bill, Midland is just outside of Columbus. We are in Harris county. Man, I have been having a hard time getting my Alkalinity up. I will keep you updated. 20 tons of Ag lime over two years. I have a deep water discharge with 3 to 4 gallons leaving per minute. Lake is 2.5 acres. Cant figure it out.
Thanks, Jake

Bill is right. we are paid for our trips so I put out hydrated lime and fertilize at the sametime. It has worked just fine. I did check one pond and it took 3 days. In that case it seemed like it went from 8 to 32 on the third day. Bad news it was down to 12 in a month. Usually it last longer than that.

Big Jake, (one of my favorite movies)
Here's a good site explaining lime application.
http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/fisheries/420-254/420-254.html

Ric, Thanks for the info look forward to reading it. Greg thanks for your comments as well. Today makes the 4th day since I added 200 lbs(hydrated lime) to my 2.5 acre lake and the alkalinity has not moved. It is still about 16. I went ahead and fertalized yesterday. I will advise you as to what happens. The only thing I can come up with is that my soil must be very acidic. Thanks to all you guys who have commented on this. I am beginning to think that my Cole Parmer kit is not any good. Just cant imagine after 20 tons of agriculture lime over 2 years I cant get above 20ppm. Even after the addition of the hydrated lime it does not move. My kit was just purchased this year so it should be good.

Jake

Big Jake,

I hesitate to post this because either you might feel stupid, or worse yet, you might think I'm stupid.

Anyway, when I first got my alkalinity kit from Cole Parmer I tried it out on a couple of ponds. Yikes! Alkalinity readings around 13! And these were ponds that should be fine with lots of limestone, etc. in the watershed. I puzzled and puzzled about it and couldn't come up with a satisfactory answer. So I decided my test kit must be bad. In desperation I read the instructions for the 10th time and . . . SMACK! I had to hit myself on the forehead.

I wasn't following the instructions! When I finished titrating in the mixture and getting my color change, I was reading the value right off the side of the glass tube. It never really struck me as odd that the numbers were ALL UPSIDE DOWN! Dumb me wasn't turning the glass tube right-side up to read it.

IF this is the case with you (and I'm not saying that it is), you should be just fine. If so, I'll bet your alkalinity is actually about 30.

Man, I hope that's the answer. Two reasons: One, you won't even really have a problem to solve and two, the official Pond Boss Test-Kit Challenged Club will have two members instead of one.

Fishman, Now ya got me wondering. As I set im my office thinking about the kit that is at the house the numbers on the ample are right side up as I press the lever allowing soulution to go into the ample. I hear what your saying and I cant wait to get to the house to check it out. As I sit here I cant imagine that I am not reading it correctly. I will let you no and fess up if I am in error. Thanks for the info.

Jake

Hear YEE, Hear Yee, Let it be know that Big Jake is now a honarary member of the "Pondboss Test-Kit Challenged Club". Fishman as you well know the instruction say to invert the ample after the color change. My Alkalinity is now 30. I should add that there is actually 3 of us that cant read and the other is the lab manager at at major chemical company who runs test all the time. I guess it makes me feel a little better to know he missed it as well. Fishman, You da Man.

So why no bloom? I have had the best bloom this year of the three years since I built mine.

Fishman holly crap. I was doing the same thing. Add me to the stupid club. I was cussing the cole parmer kit. I threw it away b/c the readings did not jive with my pH I was getting. Good news it motivated me to order a digitial titrator from Hach. It is way more accurate than anything out there. However it is not for the average pondowner with a (I think) $165 price tag. The reagents will not be much more than the cole parmer kit though.

Jake Bill has a good point. If not the low alkalinity then why can you not get a bloom. Make sure the ferilizer is water soulble. Fishman thanks for making me realize my stupidty

Bill, Good question. I have gone back to the granular 20-20-5 that I had good results with 2 years ago. I tried the water soluable this year with no luck. I thought it was due to low alk so I am not sure why I did not get a bloom. I am going back to what has worked in the past. I fertilized Saturday so hopefully I should see a bloom over the next few days. I will let you guys no the outcome.
Fishman if your ever down my way Columbus Ga, I owe you a steak dinner. Greg if I cant get a bloom i may want to try some of your fertilizer.
Everyone on this site that I have talked to is great. I really appreciate you guys helping us amatuers out. Even an old pro can learn a thing or two aint that right Greg.

Thanks, Jake

Jake, here is how I got my Bloom this year. About two months ago I applied 25 lbs of Greg's fertilizer(10-52-4 I think) and at the same time I have hung from my dock a 5 Gal bucket with holes drilled in it and filled it with triple superphosphate(0-46-0). My theory on the bucket is it is a poor mans Southern Excellent. The second 50 lbs bag($7.99) goes in the bucket Saturday.

I know 20-20-5 is sold as a pond fertilizer and DNR recommends it but IMO there are much better products out there

You been getting some of this great rain?

Fishman - Many, many thanks for your post! I just looked at my test kit last night and also realized that I have been reading the results upside down. I have done this six times and did not catch my mistake. I thought I had a hardness reading of 12, but when I turn it rightside up, I get a hardness of 70. You just saved me the cost and backache of adding 5 tons of lime! I also owe you a steak dinner if you are ever traveling through Pacific Missouri!

Let's see, that makes five members for the Pond Boss Test Kit Challenged Club, or the PBTKC for short (you know how everyone loves acronyms). Well I'm glad I could help you all out and even happier that I'm not the only one to have had that problem. Once I figured out how to use it, the kit was and has been great.

I've been using Trophymaker water soluble 12-61-0 almost exclusively this year with great results. So much easier and quicker to apply than liquid, with the bloom appearing much sooner too. I don't know why other fertilizer powders wouldn't work just as well.

Granular just takes too long, IMHO, particularly when water temperatures are cool and it doesn't dissolve very well. Higher nitrogen also seems to result in more filamentous algae problems too. I have had fewer problems this year than ever before.

Oh, and by the way, I'd be happy to take those steak dinners in the form of gift certificates. :p

Gainesjs, I'm from Missouri, but don't know where the heck Pacific, MO is. I'm guessing west MO?

BIG JAKE

I dont think i've ever wanted somebody to get a bloom so bad in my life.please please keep us posted.i bet everybody on this site is praying for you.you probably worked the hardest at this as anybody on this site.good luck.

Lee, ill keep you guys posted,perhaps I was trying to early this year but my temps were 65 to 70 when I first tried. I guess
those temps to start fertilizing are just guidelines. I guess all ponds are different and you just have to learn to tweek your own.
Fishman send me your address and Ill make good on my offer. It will be my pleasure to buy you a steak.

Jake

Thanks Big Jake, but I was just kidding about the gift certificates. Part of what makes this website so great is that anyone can come here and get some free advice. That and the fact that everyone is interested in making their pond better. Many thanks to the PondBoss staff for making this possible.

So take the money you saved on lime and take Mrs. Big Jake out tonight.

Bill, we saved alot of money on fertilizer this by doing a similar poor-man's-SE-bucket-thing. We took these woven plastic feed bags, put some empty soda bottles in them and filled them with tobacco fertilzer (wich has the exact same formulation as the SE buckets). Then we just tied a rope to it, achored it with a brick and let it do its thing. In comparison to the crystaline fertilizer it was just as effective, a little bit easier and a WHOLE LOT cheaper.
Oh dude, jake I totaly feel for you about doing the lime the hard way, last spring my dad and I chucked 21 tons of lime one shovel at a time. I don't think my back will ever be the same. The alkalinity went up and the PH improved but for months we still couldn't get a bloom. Then finaly it just bloomed.
Good luck
-Scott