I am, crap. The synopsis and way forward, it could be a lot worse.

On 3/28 we stocked 1/2 gallon (750-1000) FHM. First few weeks after stocking the FHM, every evening we found several trapped in the erosion blanket. Pond dropped due to no rain and out of the erosion blanket. Temps were still down and we stopped seeing them which I figured was due to the cold. Earlier this week started laying out minnow traps with stale bread b/c temps were starting to come up and was not seeing any activity. Temps this evening were 82F at the surface and 62F at 7' so plenty warm for FHM spawning/activity. Traps are empty after being moved around the pond. Neighbor drove up today and said he is pretty sure he saw a fish jump. Minus the initial minnows dying on the erosion mat we have not seen any minnows floating so I am leaning away from water quality. There are several thousand toad tadpoles which appear to be doing ok another strike against water quality. I have used the pool test kits on the water a few times and had nothing abnormal minus a slightly elevated PH, which is true of all the ponds in our area, so did not send off for further analysis.

Test Results from 4/21/2015
PH= 8.5
Alkalinity= 180PPM
Secchi= 18" (Today it is ~4 to 5 feet)

Plan of Attack
1) Fish it tomorrow and see what is there. I am sure they went through the FHM quick and are now starving as there is nothing else in the pond. I have 3 kids that can fish with worm/bobber and my wife and I will run spinners/hard plastics. Will buying more FHM for bait (on the hook) be a more effective means of catching?

2) Track down the stupid SOB that bucket stocked the pond and find out when, species, number, etc. I have been quite vocal to neighbors and friends about not jacking up my plan when they bring up adding fish. Time to hit anyone I missed. I don't know that I would be mad if they came clean as it would make the plan a lot easier. Who am I kidding, I will probably slap the s*** out of them.

3) Keep the fishing pressure high, super high, for the next week. I do not work, well I stay at home with the kids, so all day everyday. As many poles in the water as possible as much as possible.

4) After that week add FHM and see what happens. If FHM become prolific then continue with stocking plan. If they are annihilated, drain in the fall, lime it, and wait for the refill next spring.

Am I paranoid about bucket stocking, which I am, and overreacting? Do I need to be more patient? I know a lot of people will say drain it now but either way I think I am too late into the year to expect a refill so stocking will not commence until next spring anyway. Thoughts on if this might work or am I a friggin idiot? Thanks in advance.

On a side note, I am going to write my congressman and senators, as I encourage you to do the same, to request they create a federal law against this which includes hefty fines and 10 years of imprisonment. They have federal laws for Canadian geese, why not against bucket stocking?

I'm curious. If you could electroshock or drain and examine the contents of the fish in your pond besides very few FHM which you assume is a symptom of a bucket stocking scenario, what fish do you expect to find that were stocked?

When do you think they were stocked and how many of 'them' do you think were put in to eat all your minnows?

Have no way to electroshock nor do I wish to pay someone to electroshock. I could drain the pond but with a refill not likely this year, I would like to avoid that until fall so we are not looking at a hole all summer.

My assumption would be LMB but honestly I have absolutely no idea.

I have no idea when they were stocked, how many, or if they were even stocked as the property is not at my residence.

Only trying to explain why we have no FHM, alive or dead, and the potential sighting by the neighbor. Other reasonable explanations accepted, I have no others.

Fish it. See what you get.

Ben
I feel your pain, but believe me it's not the end of the world.i had the same thing done to me. Will it slow down your plans , yes. But when givin lemons make lemonade. I also elected not to electroshock them or drain, due to drought and cost and effectivness . My bucket bass were eating all the first YOY CNBG so much as to hurt my BCP growth. Well I spent the money on more baitfish to help the fish make it till the CNBG spawn this spring. So there are options other than beating your helpful bucket stockers. It just changes your course a little. I'm with ya, and you can work through this


Pat

Sprk, I am on it first thing in the AM. Actually quite excited about fishing the pond for the first time ever with the kids.

Pat, thanks for the words of wisdom. I keep cracking jokes to my wife about it, we also have been dealing with a guy trying to steal topsoil. If I have to drain in the fall so be it, not going to sweat it. Maybe I will fish all week and catch nothing which may prove to be worse as where the heck are all the FHM. Thanks again.

Did you check every single FHM that got stocked. It wouldn't be the first time a stranger is along for the ride. It's a real pain to do, so most will just scan a few and then go under the assumption that their dealer is reputable, but..........

fish n chips, yes we hand picked through every last minnow. Anything that looked sickly or not like a FHM went by the way side. Only tossed out 3 due to looking crappy. Sat with two 5-gallon buckets and took about an hour to sort, took so long b/c the kids were helping and, again, I am paranoid.

FWIW when I stocked my FHM in my new pond April of 2014, they disappeared....and then in June/July there were thousands of little ones all over the place. With no predators in the pond, the FHM in my pond stayed a little deeper. My advice, don't give up on them yet.

Our fat heads in Ontario have been very very slow in the traps. We had one good week and then the snow came. Its been cold the last bit until yesterday.

Don't be surprised if they show up this weekend. They seem to go deep and wiggle into the rocks when cold.

Could you run a net maybe or is this pond big?

Other thoughts is if the fat heads did die and the birds picked them all off before you seen them.

I hope you don't have a strange fish you do not want in there.

Cheers Don.

Bill and Don, thank you that is reassuring. Getting ready to go "fishing" with the kids, so hopefully they don't catch anything (that sounds awful). Pond has 3:1 sides and is 7/8 acre, 9 ft at the deepest so effectively seining is out, well at least outside the scope of my abilities.

Without predators in the pond they will be scattered all over the place - not near the shore like in ponds that have predators.

Jumping fish could have been a barn swallow or purple martin getting a drink and leaving a ring in the water.

If actually bucket stocked, and nothing else is in there besides the FHM, you could always find an applicator and have them Rotenone the pond.

Bullfrog tadpoles frequently gulp air on the surface, they could easily be mistaken for a jumping fish.

You guys are making me feel better by the minute, I love this forum. Two hours of fishing with 6 poles yielded nothing, not even a bite. 3 poles had live worms, two had berkley night crawlers, and ran one pole with a spinner while walking the banks. On a lunch break with the kids, left the worms in the water. Reloaded the minnow traps with fresh (stale) bread.

We have not seen any bullfrog tadpoles but that doesn't mean they are not there. Haven't seen any turtles but could they have the same effect? What about an adult toad, which I know are there? My initial comment to my neighbor was a bird but he was quite confident it came from the water not the air.

I hope I am mistaken about someone placing fish in the pond. We have not been locking the gate and quickly realized people were stopping by w/o our knowledge, although most are interested in the 2000 yards of topsoil and not the pond.

If I have to go the Rotenone route and assuming the pond size is:

Surface: 0.818 acres
Volume: 3.5482 acre feet

I would need 4 gallons of 5% solution. Correct? What is the cost of that stuff or the cost for someone to apply? Thanks again guys.

Hoof that minnow trap in deep. As far as you can throw her. You will find them. With out predator fish in the pond they don't really frequent the shallows unless spawning and even then you may not see them that shallow.

I have a pond on a neighbors farm that has fat heads in it and we don't see them much at all. I need to throw the trap in as deep as I can and have the bread soak a day.

Don,
I thought about that briefly, need to get a new rope as I am usually throwing them in streams and rivers. Thanks for the tip, will head out after lunch and get them in the deep end.

Ben

Typically, I never see the fathead minnows after stocking them.

I stocked FHM and GSH a year ago. I hand fed and then installed feeder. There have been no predators up to a month ago. I saw my forage fish all the time in the shallows. They cruise the edges in good sized flotillas. With dark water and bottom, they are hard to spot sometimes. Put something light on the bottom and you can really seem them cross over it.

When food it out, they are there quickly. Can have a dozen around every pellet on the surface. Stocked bass were only 3", but I haven't seen any significant change in behavior yet.

Sounds like a great day of fishing!

Typically, I get towed out after you stock.....

So after a few days of fishing with live worms, spinners, hard plastics, and powerbait night crawlers I caught nothing. Used Don's advice on the traps and placed them in the deepest part of the pond for days/weeks (checking and reloading every morning/evening) and did not catch one minnow. I think I am going to do the following:

1) Home water quality test again and see where the pond stands
2) Send out a water sample and have it professionally tested
3) Fish with live minnows for one more day to ensure I am clear
4) If everything is good, purchase another round of FHM and proceed with original stocking plan

On a side note, the pond has a beautiful green hue to it with about 12" of visibility. Need to get off my butt and get moving as the Papershell Crayfish and Lake Chubsuckers are coming in June.

Sunil, thanks for the heads up. The reason it scared me so much is b/c people talk about walking across FHM by mid-summer and I have failed to see one. In the end there is nothing I can do about it but make decisions based on the info I have now. Thanks.

Dono, esshup, Bill D., shorty- Thanks for the advice fellas, you guys helped calm me down a bit to look at this objectively which is always better than knee jerk reactions.

ToddM, it was a good day. The kids were with me and I told them we probably wouldn't catch anything. They stared at me blankly. We had fun anyway!

DNickolaus, I understand they are fed at the fish farm but how did you go about that when you got them in your pond? Throw in food, wait for them to find it, and repeat everyday at the same spot? Would have started feeding when I stocked them but was not overly confident it would work. Thanks.

Ben, I never saw any of my FHM the first year. The second year, at the suggestion of my very reputable fish supplier, I would throw a few handfuls of sinking pellets as far as I could into the water when I was at the pond (once every few days, different place each time). It wasn't anything like feeding big fish - there was nothing to see. One day I dropped a dozen or so pellets onto a flat rock near the bank and watched them while I ate my lunch. Sure enough, the minnows began to appear and swarmed all over those pellets. I don't know why, but the supplier emphasized sinking fish feed and throwing it out as far as I could. Before long there were clouds of minnows everywhere in that pond. I hope this helps.

I started the day after I stocked FHM and GSH. Took a quart or less of GFC (figured they aren't piscivores) and threw out a handfull or less at various places all around the pond. I observed their response and they preferred the deep, shaded S side. This was generally evenings on the weekend. Went 5 months standing on a stump just in the water. If I step off the stump, it's 5' deep- steep. Then I put in a TH feeder, thanks to wife and Esshup plotting. It went on the other side of the dam solely due to solar. Fish were happy to go over there for morning/evening feed every day. I adjusted the time over the season based on them cleaning it all up. Cooler water, less feed. They clearly spawned the first summer. More and smaller fish. I had minimal breeding material in new pond. Two bags lasted most of the season before I quit for the winter, using mostly AQ4000.

Now after a year, I put in predators. I feed a mix of AQ4000 and AQ500 via feeder. Doubt a mix is necessary as FHM happily eat 500. I got a bag of AQ400. I only hand-throw because it gets deep fast. I throw it along the edge and a nearby shallow cove. They prefer sinkers. THey prefer I stay out of sight, but will come to the edge at my feet if that's all there is and I'm still. I rarely see the 4" GSH- mostly see ~1-3" fish.

They will eat any time, even high noon. I've been there an hour after feeder went off, and they'll eat more. I don't hydrate; throw it dry. Takes them up to 45 min to clean it up. I consider it cheap therapy.

This is just my observation of my primarily forage fish pond.

I believe I once read on the forum that fathead minnows would chow down on blocks of alfalfa or something like that.

Could be something to try.

kskid/DNickolaus- Thanks for the advice on feeding, going to start and see what happens.

1) Home water quality test again and see where the pond stands
Secchi- 18"
pH- 8.4 (max)
Alkalinity (KH)- 300 ppm
Hardness (GH)- 300 ppm

2) Send out a water sample and have it professionally tested
Sent to TAMU today

3) Fish with live minnows for one more day to ensure I am clear
Caught nothing all day, left the poles in the water overnight, minnows were still alive in the morning.

4) If everything is good, purchase another round of FHM and proceed with original stocking plan
Going to wait for the TAMU report then stock more FHM and RES.

Thanks to all for the advice and words of wisdom, it was/is extremely helpful.

What time of day was the pH reading taken?

In the evening @ 1930

I'd think about adding agricultural lime alum, not ag lime to drop the pH. pH is highest at midday, so the pH in the pond could have been higher.

Isn't ag lime alkaline and would raise the pH more? Thought about adding alum but maybe I am confused.

Dang it, you are correct. I've got too many things bouncing around between my ears this morning!

I'll change my reply so as to not to confuse anybody.

Thanks for catching that!!

Scott, thanks. Kind of makes me happy you were wrong as I would then be completely off on my understanding of water chemistry, which is not that great anyway.

My assumptions and questions.

1) The higher the alkalinity the more stable the pH. If my home test kit is even semi-accurate @ 300ppm, is there a curve on adding alum based on alkalinity? AKA is it harder to lower the pH if you have high alkalinity?

2) Would adding alum be a long term fix or do I need to worry about it going back up?

3) Do you think I should wait until I get the analysis back from TAMU to ensure I am adding appropriate amounts of alum based on true numbers? My test kit maxes at 8.4, it could be at 12 for all I know.

Thanks again.

I had been worried to death about bucket stocking or fish kills after stocking FHM, BG, and RES last fall in our new pond. I saw no sign of any of them until late spring. I first saw 2 FHM a couple times. I still haven't seen many adults. I have masses of fry now though so they are somewhere I just can't see. I'm finally seeing BG jumping. Still no sign of the RES but I'm sure they're there. I have no predators other than birds so it seems the fish really are relaxing out of sight in the center. I'm sure they're in there somewhere. I hope it works out for you. I know how you feel since I was paranoid myself. I drove my wife nuts.

For us we didn't see any FHM stocked the first year. Just a couple of dead ones from stress. It wasn't until the next season until we saw schools of babies swimming near the surface.

With that many stocked FHM, there would likely need to be more than one predator in there to clean them out. You surely would have caught one by now as they would be hungry once the FHM were consumed.

I would bet they are still in there. I have been trying to trap FHM in my pond to transfer a couple into my garden pond which is a mosquito heaven right now, and having zero luck with bread. I see them occasionally swim right by the bread and trap. I am starting to think the traps only work for ponds with so much life density that the minnows trip and fall in.

My next try will be putting some fish food in a piece of thin material the fish can peck at. Bread isn't working at all for me. Otherwise bait shop here I come.

Not all fhm are pellet trained. I recently stocked 10g in my bg/yp pond last fall and found it very odd they were not coming to surface to feed. Kept trying for weeks until I called the hatchery. They explained these minnows were harvested from a 200 ac marsh they own and these fish never see a feeder, therefore aren't trained. Bruce Condello also stocked some of these in his res pond and noticed the same thing. Fast forward to this summer and their clouds of offspring have all naturally trained themselves. My point: try to resist worrying and allow your fhm time to do their thing. Strongly doubt a few bucket stocked predators could extirpate your entire population and don't forget fhm are very hardy and will likely find a way.

I would post signs around your pond stating use of live bait or stocking fish is prohibited. Or I'd state fishing is only allowed when you are present. Few ideas for you.