Hey y'all,

I've searched the archives and somewhat found some answers but thought I'd just post all my questions at once.

September 1st I stocked 100 LMB and 100 HSB (all 6-8") as well at 8 GC, feeding the HSB AM500. At the time, my pond probably had 150 adult BG (I know, I know) and also added about 175 YOY (1-3") CSBG at the end of October. All this after a fish-kill in June of last year so I know my pond was pretty much void of any fish.

As I put the cart before the horse by not establishing my forage base first I just put in an order of 1500 3-5" BG, expecting them around mid April.

I've attached a picture of my cage which I will build another but I'm wondering how many BG of that size I can safely put in each cage to pellet feed until they've grown beyond LMB snacks. And unfortunately I have 2, approx 4lb LMB in there that are doing a great job of avoiding me, and I'm also hoping they haven't feasted on my September stocking.

At 1/2" mesh, will the BG escape or possibly get stuck trying to escape?

As they will be fed daily I'm also wondering at what size to release them and possibly still pull off an early spawn?

My pond is 2 acres and aerated with a lot of natural structure but I still plan on adding some pallets, etc.

So my questions being:
How many BG in each cage?
Is 1/2" mesh safe for that size of stockers?
What can I expect for timely growth?
At what size should I release them to the wild?
How soon after release can I expect a spawn?

Thanks in advance!

BTW the cage is 4' tall, 3' diameter with 1/4" mesh at the water/feed line

(one of these days I'll figure out how to post the photo)

Well, I'll atttempt to answer my own questions and maybe someone will chime in if I'm way off base.

400-500 BG in each cage and will have to release the rest
Be prepared to modify the cages upon delivery to avoid escapees
Assume 8 weeks growth after 2-a-day feeding to release to avoid predation (hoping for 6-8" by then?)
Unlikely to assume a June spawn but hopefully one shortly thereafter

If no replies within a few days that I'm way off on those assumptions, I'll delete the post.

Thanks!

PB rocks

Lovinlivin,

Sorry you didn't get a response yet but I didn't see your post until it was brought to my attention. I'm sure others didn't either. We're usually pretty good at responding here.

I've got a lot of experience with cage culture and Bill Cody is even more of an expert. I look for him to come along shortly. Anyway most of the literature says you can go up to 15 lbs. per cubic foot for bluegill that size but I never go above 3 lbs. per cubic foot myself. Perhaps the higher end is with the addition of aeration?

Also you should be fine with 1/2 inch mesh for 3 to 5 inch bluegills. Others species that are not as wide would be a problem though.

A link to a Powerpoint I recently did on cage culture for an aquaculture conference:

http://www.slideshare.net/cecilbaird1/2-cage-culture

Thank you Cecil!

That link worked fine, as well as the one emailed.

Once again, valuable information that I sure wished I had prior to and during stocking last September. That certainly opens some doors and I see a few more cages being built!

On a side note, it's almost comical doing things you think are right, or make sense, (or maybe taking one person's advice) to find out there is so much more to pond & fishery management, that once you learn them you think, "what was I thinking!"

Thank you again!

PB Rocks!

Keith

Amen to that! I've learned more on here in 3 days than I knew all together(which isn't saying much)

Been there done that. Still doing it!

"Been there done that. Still doing it!"

Cecil, I don't want to say that's good to know but it is reassuring

For me I'm sure there's much more to come but I'm learning, thanks to you all!

BTW, any idea what to expect for growth rate on the pellet-fed BG, or too many unknown variables to say?

Depends on your water temps, i.e. you get below average temps you end up with less growth. Small bluegills love warm water so if we you get a hot summer than you'll get good growth.

I'd say by the end of summer you'd have 3 to 5 getting to 6 to 8 inches. Anyone else want to chime in on their opinion?

So where did you get the CSBG?

My understanding is that they are very hard to get ahold of?

From TJ

There's this dental office in Lincoln. I can't tell you which one, but I think it's the only practice with a Korean hygienist. You have to go in on the bosses day off. If you ask her for "the special" and wink with your LEFT EYE you may be able to score a few.

DO NOT wink at the blond hygienist and ask for "the special" or her husband the exMarine will chase you to the Kansas border.

What did TJ charge you ?

CSBG don't come cheap.

Typically you would have to pay quite a bit for them.

I'm pretty jealous. I've been wanting CSBG for years. I'll bet you had to pay a pretty penny. I know of at least four people who've wanted them for some time, and they are rarely available.

I've had people inquire about them with me for years and have had to let them down. They're either not available or too expensive. I'm also curious how many TJ was able to sell you and how much he charged for them. I might have quite a few people interested. Let us know Luvn!

He offered them to me after my fish-kill, but if you read above when & what I stocked, it's unfortunate with my forage issue (or lack thereof) that I didn't cage them for growth/survival when I got them.

Time will tell if there are any survivors.

Anyone else have any opinions on the growth rate Cecil suggested earlier at two-a-day feedings? No free (or costly) snacks for the predators so they'll need to be at least 6-8" minimum (and still hope for a spawn upon release).

Would you please clarify that? That doesn't make any sense. You didn't have to give him anything in return? Seems like you would have been expected to give something back.

Maybe not, remember this is T.J.,he spent 6 hrs.,50$ worth of firewood to make 5$ worth of charcoal.

Well, you'd think that he'd at least OFFER TJ something. I think I'll send TJ a PM to see what the deal is here.

I LOLed.

Luvn, what did you end up paying for the CSBG and how many did you get?

Somtimes the fish just won't take the bait regardless of who's fishing.

Don't worry, Lovn. Barnes1 should just be happy someone answered his post this time before another 5 years had passed.

Sorry if I missed any previous discussion here. Did you or didn't you cage them? Was this something I missed? Was this suggested to you before you released them? Again, I apologize if this has already been covered.



I know TJ is a generous dude, but does this post mean he just gave you Condello Strain Bluegill for free? If that's the case, man, you are one lucky man!

What?

If that's the case, then sign me up! TJ, I can bring a 300 gallon oxygenenated/agitated tank for pick up. How many thousand do you think will fit?

Sometimes when I see a friend's pond where the fish won't take the bait I recommend that he rotenone the pond !

Lovnlivin, hey, care to address my questions? Did you cage your CSBG? I cringe at the thought of them being released only to be expensive fish food.

And if you're not comfortable posting what you paid for those CSBG, please PM me when you get a chance. I have many pond owners in our area interested.

[quote=Lovnlivin] it's unfortunate with my forage issue (or lack thereof) that I didn't cage them for growth/survival when I got them.

Time will tell if there are any survivors. quote]

Omaha, sorry I didn't reply earlier. I mentioned in my post that I did not cage them and now dealing with the hindsight 20/20 issue. And now understanding more of what the CSBG are, I cringe as well.

It's my first pond and discovered PB in May, what did I know? But certainly have learned a lot since then. Regarding the CSBG, hindsight is also telling me I should have left the source unnamed or just not mentioned them. I was just trying to give credit where credit is due.

Still learning

The 1500 BG I have coming as a corrective measure to my lack of forage WILL be caged until safe to release to the wild!

CSBG have been a big deal around Pond Boss for years. It took so many years of a lot of work to develop those genetics, so that’s why you saw the interest in obtaining them. One generally doesn’t just stumble upon them. Good for you that you found TJ who had some to offer you. Please PM me what you paid for them or give me permission to PM TJ myself. I don’t want to intrude on the deal you made with TJ, but I would like to inquire to the availability and cost of them.

And no worries about name dropping. TJ is a well-known and well-respected member here. I’m sure if he took issue with you publicly naming him as the source he would have asked you to edit the post.

Omaha, just as a minor (and hopefully insignificant) correction, TJ found me, the same way you all introduce yourselves and welcome us newcomers to PB and for that I’m very grateful!

And, as I was originally just looking for insight on cage-culture (thank you Cecil), I really didn’t want to go here but due to "inquiring" minds I will try to simplify things for those showing interest. My apologies if anyone finds this offensive.

I rent this place, moved here in April of last year and not knowing if I will be here one year or maybe 10 I’m just excited as heck that I have a pond! A pond that’s been neglected, weed-choked, blanketed in DW and just shy of ugly, yet with great potential because it is in-fact A POND

I discovered PB in May, started cleaning up the pond with a fish(ing) goal of LMB and BG. LMB for me, BG for the kids. I then have a complete fish-kill in June, so after the Fluridone treatment cleared up my pond, my son and I start fishing area lakes & ponds for BG as I had already invested enough ($700 for Fluridone and nearly $2k into aeration, etc.) into a property I don’t own. Why buy them from the local supplier? Heck, I can get BG from the local lakes and ponds, and gives me a good reason to go! 2 or 3 of us fishing at 30-45 per day, sounds like productive fun! I didn’t know then that there are many species of BG/Sunfish, some of which I might not want in my pond. I thought they were all just Bluegill. I’m a bass fisherman, what do I know?

A local PB’r who had been offering help and advice, as so many of you had (and do), and knew of my fish-kill and starting over, graciously says if you can bring me a cage I’ll start collecting BG, very possibly to save me from the mistake of transferring species from area lakes/ponds that I really didn’t want in MY pond. I graciously accepted.

He says they’re Condello Strain BG. He explained the genetics and how they came about. So, I’m thinking Ok, cool! Were they all CSBG? I have no idea if he has other species of BG or if they’re all CSBG, or whether they’re male, female, etc., I guess he’s the one who could answer that. I still have a hard time distinguishing between BG, HBG, CNBG, RES, GSF, etc., let alone CSBG which I know now are obviously not going to be found at the local lakes or a buddy’s pond.

I built a cage, we deployed the cage, the cast-net went out, we separated the tadpoles and the BG went in.

I then put together (adding aeration) a 100 gal Rubbermaid stock tank, drove back out to get them around the 1st week of October and we guessed about 175-200 went in the tank. It was getting late, there wasn’t room in my pickup for the cage too (nor did I even think about caging them) so off I went to introduce them to their new home and in the pond they went. This is where some of you may cringe as I had just stocked 100 6-8” LMB and 100 6-8” HSB just 30 days before on September 1st, let alone the 20 or so LMB at 10-14" and the two 3 1/2 lb'ers lurking around in there too. Yep, all of which I put in there In hindsight, my stocking plan was so terribly backwards, lol.

Personally, I had a great time out there with TJ and his friend, we fished for and netted BG and I learned how to tie on a pellet-fly (?) to wrestle one of his fighting Wipers.

Respectfully, this account is of course from my perspective, a newbie/first-timer certainly knowing more now than I did then and,

Still learning

PS - Hopefully I’ve addressed the concerns and curiosities for those interested. For those not interested, sorry to bore you with all the details. The pics below give you an idea of how far I've come with this pond, and not without the help of the folks on PB

PB rocks

Offensive because there are now a bunch of CSBG being digested by bass?

I'm very offended by this!

That was very generous of TJ. Wow. If my math is correct, you received over $500 worth of fish! Someone can correct me if I'm wrong with this number.

Is he going to help you out with more since you might have lost those?

Thanks for the explanation Lovnlivin. The first pic you posted is atrocious! The other two look pretty nice though. Quiet place. Put the kids to work and buy the place!

Um, likely not to help out with more and honestly I don't think I or my pond is worthy of the CSBG, at least certainly not now. I have a lot of corrective work to do. Many others understand their value much more than I do at this point.

As far as putting the kid to work, the trustee for this place has alreday been offered $1.55m for it but luckily for me he has no intention to sell. So my only hope is Powerball which I didn't used to buy until I moved here .

And the way the pond looks now compared to then, a day does not go by that I'm not out there. It can really put a mind at ease and I'm taking full advantage of every day I have here. It's like living at a camground for one.

Uh oh, he's not mad about what happened to the fish is he? You didn't know any better. As long as you work with him to do it the right way this time, I think it could work out. You still need the forage and those genetics are the best you can get, especially in the Midwest.



I never understood renting a place, but if it's something you love, I suppose compromising is on the table.



That's got to be a good feeling. Fulfilling for sure. We're getting some better weather (saw a small moth today actually) so keep those pictures of the place coming as it gets greener.

As far as renting I'll call it a sacrificial compromise to follow my dream.

After owning a home for over 20 years in the city I knew in my heart I belonged in the country. I wasn't getting younger, my son was on his own, yet I could not afford the acreage I wanted and stay close to family. Land is outrageous here!

I rented a farmhouse on 160 acres which was great but never stopped looking. 3 1/2 years later I found my little slice of an 80 acre paradise. I tried for a lifetime lease but settled on a 2 year renewable @ $500 monthly (which is almost wrong in every way). I'm a fairly decent handyman so it's working out great for the owner who lives out of town, and for me as he gives me free reign. His dad lived here and said it hasn't looked this good in 20 years.

Being a project junkie I'm now living my dream and will ride it for as long as the good Lord (and landlord) allows. Sorry, I could go on and on about this place.

Right now it's finding my slow leak from the damn muskrats (I believe) so it will stay full without running the well. Many holes along the damn

I grew up on a farm, moved to the city to be closer to work. Now I'm trying to get back out there.

So what's the plan with the pond? Just a wait and see approach at this point or are you going to cage more bluegill?

I can about imagine how much you miss it!

Regarding fish, I have 1500 3-5" BG (biggest I could afford) coming around mid April which I will cage and feed until safe to release, I'm guessing at 6-8" or better. I'd just like to get at least one if not 2 spawns out of them this year so we'll see how the growth goes and when they're released. The bigger the better due to the predators. I'll also do EVERYTHING possible to get those 2 hogs out of there, 4+ lb LMB.

ALso, as the water warms and I start feeding again, I'm hopefull for the return of the feeding HSB that I stocked in Sept. That would be very encouraging!

On the leak in my pond, I'm letting the water level drop which is about 2" per week. If it stops I have likely found out where it's leaking and may try the bentonite route but I'm still researching my options and it will depend on the source of the leak.

Also, I will be cutting all wild brush and trees that have sprouted on the face of the damn over the years. Not sure what's growing but maybe I can post a pic for ID. To me they're weeds but some stalks are 1-2" in diameter. Other than that I'll be removing as many unwanted trees around the pond as I can as it's currently surrounded which brings a lot of leaves in the fall

I know your question was regarding the fish issue but there's my overall plan for spring .

Same place you got your CSBG. At least I think TJ has RES.

What is the significance of Condello Strain BG??? Are they fast, prevalent breeders?... What do they look like in compared to say a CNBG? I'ma needn some education here! : )

from what I uderstand they simply look larger in photos for some reason?

CSBG have been selected by Bruce for the fastest growing fish, with shapes that resemble dinner plates (very round when viewed from the side). IIRC he selected the fastest growing BG for about 10 years and I think the project is still ongoing.

Lovnliving, you have a very cheap rent but the owner is getting someone who is making his property better. He will probably want to retire there. You may want to take that into consideration while spending your money on his place. The feds will try to get rid of the mortgage deduction shortly and if they succeed renting will become the rage. Good luck.

Kenc, even if he does retire here (he's 56) and even if it allowed me only 5 more years here, I'd be the happiest guy around having been given the opportunity to live at a place I've only dreamed about.

The future holds no guarantees so I live everyday as though it may be my last day here. But FWIW, he has no desire to live here (it was his dad's place), only to keep it from being sold and developed and pass it on when he's gone. For him as he lives an hour away, he no longer has to drive in 2-3 times per week (poachers, upkeep, etc.) and he knows it's being maintained and cared for.

I do have much invested here but the return I get on a daily basis is worth every dime and every aching muscle. I'm rewarded every day I pass through my gate entering the property.

To me a small price to pay to live at my own secluded campground, complete with pond, forest and running creek.

The way this place looks now after being neglected for the past 5-10 years is fully attributable to folks like you on PB that help rubes like me realize a dream.

Thanks for the good luck wishes!

PB Rocks!

Lovnlivil, you have done an amazing job on the farm. Having made my living by renting out homes, I can tell you that you are the kind of person that a landlord loves. If he does decide to retire there, I might try to get him to let you build a small vacation type home on the property somewhere. If you could lifetime rights to the property and let it revert back to the farm at the time of your and wife's passing his children would probably want to do this. I know I would love to have someone like you to take care of one of my farms. I salute you and the best of luck to you.

Kenc, thank you so much, those were very kind words!

(one minor correction though, I'm divorced )

There are other people involved in the trust, with my landlord as sole trustee. So like he says, as long as nothing happens to him I'm in good shape and I can rent the place as long as I want. But if something does happen to him and your ideas fall on deaf ears, I will be looking for another place to take care of as my own. So I may be moving to VA


Again, thank you for that!

One of these days I'll put together a "before and after" but it will also include the work I've done on the house, outbuildings, lawn & grounds, etc. So maybe I can separate the "pond management" portion to post somewhere here if anyone is interested.

And actually, I think I could have a full thread of my own just on mistakes and bloopers

Thanks again, Ken!

Keith - PB Rocks

Ahhhh!!! I got it, that would explain some of the pics I have seen in video on youtube that look like BG on steroids!!!! thanks for the Info!!!

Bruce Condello has done some amazing things with those BG, as I'm learning as well. Have you checked out his website?

www.bigbluegill.com

I can't even imagine!

Hm..I see that mugshot of that guy before, and that monstrous thing that has been stuffed and swimming in a pool of steriods LOL CSBG is well crafted. I still can't believe the results of careful genetic isolation and recombinant that he has been putting into creating these titans.

However, genetics from careful breeding and proper feeding are not the only factor. He's blessed with a high quality water body to perform his experimentation with. Environmental factors play quite a bit of critical role in producing such marvels.

Bruce has a website devoted to BG? Huh. I never made the connection.........