Hey guys got my HSB today..

These things are huge already.. Most are pushing 2lbs probably 15".. Sorry didn't measure or take pics

The guy was awesome he delivered them for free really took his time acclimating them and informing me.. He threw in 15 extra for free.. He said they were actually alot bigger than he thought when he took out of there cages.. He used some kind of oil to stun them I thought for sure they were dead they were just laying in my pond on there Backs just started flipping and swam off it was pretty wild..

You Plan on pellet feeding? I had stocked 40 in April but haven't seen them feed...it is a retention pond,maybe they all went down the drain?... Bg and hbg on feed and the grass carps But still no HSB... There are some 12 - 15 in lmb , maybe they took out most of them.... Good luck, they are a blast to catch.

I have 3 feeders now running.. I figure they'll eat feed or hammer small BG either way a plus..

BGK,

Congrats! I got 25 of them in April they are fighters. Even at 11 inches they fight! With all that food they should grow fast!! I have not caught any of mine lately. I hope they made it with the heat I have had and low waters I am not sure how they are doing???

The 20 I put in this past Spring are doing well also. I've not fished for them in quite awhile, but they still soak the grass along the bank when they feed on the AQ!

Thanks RC, yours are taking to pellets pretty good if I remember right?

Anyone got any opinions on how big I should expect these fish to get??

Yes they are eating pellets as they were pellet trained before I got them. I have read that if you feed them they can gain up to 2 pounds a year I think that's tops but that's pretty darn good. I got mine in April they were 8 to 10 inches. The last one I caught in June was already pushing 12 inches. You won't believe how fast they grow! And fight!!! They also say around 3 pounds is the cut off rate for catching HSB in hot water for most folks. Most HSB 3 pounds or bigger in 80 plus water temps have a hard time living after you catch them because they give you EVERYTHING they got in the fight when they are caught they just cant recoup! Even if they swim off some folks have said they will see them floating 2 to 3 days later. So be careful in the warm water months when you catch them.

Corey

Maximum size of HSB when they are fed pellets is often related to water quality. If water quality stays reasonable, 8-10 pound HSB are reasonable to expect in 6 or so years. If you have extremely good water quality where water temps stay below 74 degrees and DO stays about 5 ppm or so, you could expect HSB to max out around 14-16 pounds. I don't know the details of your pond. Small HSB are tolerant of water into the 80's even low 90's if DO remains above 5 ppm. HSB above about 4 pounds begin to become more sensitive to temp and DO needs. When they begin pushing double digits, that is when they begin needing water quality almost on the same plain as trout.

He checked my PH, D.O, and temps.. Temps was 80° PH was perfect (according to him don't know what the # was) and my DO was 12 which he said was excellent.. Overall he said my pond and water quality was some of the best he's seen in awhile.. I told him it was all because of Pondboss.com

My water is over 74° most of the summer should i expect slow growth? I don't understand what you mean here CJ can you explain that to me a little better.. Thanks for the info guys

In your situation expect a good 4-6 lbs for an average with some of them pushing 6-8. As a rule of thumb they are much much easier to get above 5 lbs than largemouth bass!

I'm looking for 10 to 12 N8ly

George has a good HSB ambulance to revive them in. PM him and I'm sure he can tell you how he made it.

I contacted George before buying them

I would be happy fishing for 3 -5 lb HSB the rest of my life …..
They are the out fightingest fresh water that swims IMO.

Most of you that know me know that I am an avid fly fisherman.
I can’t fish big water any more, and a pond is a means to an end for me.
Our 2 acre pond is fly fishing only for me and it’s all about HSB!
I have to admit that I have fallen in love with CNBG in the process.

If you are serious about raising HSB for sport fishing, use heavier tackle, land them quickly, resusitate and release.

If for table fare, have fun on light tackle and release to the grease.

My ICU unit Scott refers to is an O2 system in a Igloo cooler.
A couple of drops of clove oil will put them asleep until weighing, measuring and photos. Release them to swim away to catch another day - they are too valuable to catch only once!
Don’t fish for them in water temps above 80+ degrees.

My favorite fish - size doesn’t matter!

Clove oil is the stuff he used to stock them.. Pretty near knocked them clean out..

Smaller HSB love warm water. They'll grow rather fast in it as a matter of fact. Larger HSB have less tolerance to warmer water and lower DO. The fact that your water temp gets above 74 degrees means you are going to probably top out around 8-10 pound HSB. Might be able to push 12 but I doubt it. As HSB get larger, they become more and more like pure striped bass in their needs as opposed to white bass. Larger pure striped bass need water parameters similar to trout. It is why the vast majority of pure striped bass spawn in the tributaries of the Chesapeake Bay but spend their summers in New England. The Bay gets too warm for them, so they swim north for the summer. In landlocked lakes, pure striped bass head for the deeper waters of lakes and hang out around the thermocline. In lakes which do not have highly oxygenated cold thermoclines, you rarely see pure stripers above 20 pounds with maybe a fish or two pushing 30. In lakes with highly oxygenated cold thermoclines, you'll see them go over 50+ pounds. Look at where the world record HSB came from... Greers Ferry Lake. It's over 40,000 acres in size and over 160 feet deep. Lots of cold high DO thermocline to cruise in.

What if I have good quality water and high DO? Will that help offset the warm water.. I'd be happy and satisfied with 10 pounders that's kinda what I was expecting.. but bigger would be great..

Bluegillkiller, just plan on stocking a handful of them every year so you dont worry if people do catch them and accidentally kill them. Too many people miss out on tons of fish catching fun for fear of catching and harming their prize HSB.

They are cheap entertainment for your situation....no worries on double digits, you'll be very happy with 5 lbers.

A 10 pound HSB will whoop you silly... Even a 5 pounder will! They make LMB look like kids play.

Have hooked on to close to 10 lb one at Lake Texoma, and it is quite the fight. They have several runs in them.

They seem to be going full speed when they hit too, so the reel starts screaming immediately.

I recently caught a 27 inch HSB on a local lake. It was like hooking a freight train with a bad attitude.

I like all these comments lol.. N8ly the guy who stocked them said I should make a plan for stocking every other year that was kinda my plan.. They will be getting caught and ate not baby'd like my BG

Great news on your HSB, but you may not like my comment.

I would be on the cautious side of thinking your DO is that high.



This graph represents the solubility of oxygen in water at various temperatures. This is based on 1 atmosphere of pressure.

Any reading on the right side of the red line requires increased pressure to achieve. In your case, you would be about 1.5 times atmospheric pressure, or about 23 psi.

Not saying the measurements taken are incorrect, just saying to be a bit cautious.

You can take DO readings around diffusers, and they will be higher, but DO will quickly find a new home in water that is not in a supersaturated state, under increased pressure as yours appears to be.

I'm kinda lost on the graph.. The DO reading was taken away from my diffusers and they had been off for 10hrs..

The warmer water becomes, the less DO it can hold in simple terms. What JKB was stating by posting the graph is, at 80 degrees F under normal atmospheric conditions, it's unlikely the DO level is 12 mg/l as water that temps maxes out around 8 mg/l.

Would like some discussion on the chart. Not a DO expert but there must be other factors at work as our water is routinely over 80F and has 5 + ppm O2. Also if the chart is right and there are no other factors then most all the fish in 90 F water would be dead as 2 ppm is death range.

This is a good basic info source. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa002

High Water Temperature
Warm water is much less capable of holding oxygen gas in solution than cool water. For example, water that is 90° F can only hold 7.4 mg/L DO at saturation, whereas water that is 45° F can hold 11.9 mg/L DO at saturation. This physical phenomenon puts the fish in double jeopardy because at high water temperatures their metabolic rates increase, hence their physiologic demand for oxygen increases.

Eric, look at the degrees, they're in C not F. Could clear any unclarity up....

Thanks - your right. So the right half of the chart is irrelevant for our purpose.

Here is the source for the graph: DO Henry's Law

Arguing with Henry may be a bit difficult at the moment

Eric, the temp on the chart is in degrees C. 90F is 32.2 Celsius.

Here is some info from the EPA: DO EPA

Pretty much so.

I ordered a couple more gizmos to do some stuff on the right side of the chart to see how Air works -vs- pure O2 in concentrating DO for tank aeration. Bet I can max my MT meter out at 50ppm.

The meter used may be out of calibration, or it may have been on the % scale, but that is for measuring %O2 in Air. Simplest explanation.

I havent met the guy yet but he sounds like a nice honest guy. I bet you will end up putting some in next year though and then starting the whole every other year thing...

Honestly I never worry about my DO.. I let my aeration do it's job and if I have a fish kill I'll have to figure something else out.. I'll just throw the feed and forage and hope for 10 pounds thank for the info guys..

man this string has me thinking about making my little pond into a HSB/RES/BG factory...HSB are the toughest fighting fish I've ever caught, bar none. That includes a good bit of ocean fishing.

Should I assume that HSB would be difficult to raise in an RAS?

HSB would have a very hard time controlling reproducing pure BG. With the help of CC, they can usually stay on top of HBG reproduction. HSB can be added with LMB already in a pond though. You should however try to get the largest HSB you can source so they don't become expensive LMB food...

No, if water quality is maintained, they would be a candidate. Just need a pretty good sized RAS system. Many HSB are brought to market in RAS systems.

Talking with the guy you ordered the book from. HSB are quite productive in an RAS. He said they are actually more well suited to and easier than YP. Quite a bit more profitable too! Unfortunately, HSB are illegal here. You will need a bigger tank as CJ mentioned.

The only downside to hybrid striped bass is if you upgrade to an aquaponics system, and you have to add potassium for the plants the hybrid striped bass can not handle it.

I saw one poster on s fish site say hybrid striped bass were the most difficult fish for him to raise in an RAS, but it was obvious he had a lot to learn about water quality.

The HSB are hammering the feed.. It's quite a site to see.. While they were feeding I threw a couple live grasshoppers out in the mix they wanted absolutely nothing to do with them..

They've never seen one and have no clue it's food...

Another thing I noticed is their only feeding from one of 3 feeders..

We normally see DO in the afternoon at 130% saturation. In fertilie water routinely see on sunny days at 180% or even beyond the meter capacity(200%). This would explain why BGK had 12 ppm at 74 degrees.

Also keep in mind the termocline might be your friend when it comes to the larger HSB they can find a zone of cool yet decent oxygen level.

Thought this was interesting from YSI, If you don't mind reading. (They have a PDF of this with graphs. I had it converted to a word document with graph's, but none of the graphs showed up here.)

Some of YSI’s customers are occasionally concerned about observing “Percent Air Saturation” dissolved oxygen readings in environmental water (lakes, streams, estuaries, etc.) that are above 100%. The issue is usually one of semantics. How can something be more than 100% saturated? To understand the overall concept, it is necessary to consider the sources of dissolved oxygen in environmental water and to appreciate that equilibration between air and water is rarely perfect in environmental situations. Air is certainly one source of dissolved oxygen in environmental water. If air were the only source of oxygen and if environmental water equilibrated with the air above it instantly during temperature changes, then it would indeed be impossible to observe values above 100% air saturation unless the sensor was in error. Neither of these “if statements” is true, however, for most bodies of water.

Oxygen Sources
Photosynthetically-active species (plants, algae, etc.) are common additional sources of dissolved oxygen in the environment and, in many bodies of water, can, in fact, be the dominant factor in determining the dissolved oxygen content. It is important to remember that these organisms produce pure oxygen (not air) during photosynthesis. Air is approximately 21% oxygen and thus it contains about five times less oxygen than the pure gaseous element produced during photosynthesis. The oxygen content of any liquid is defined by Henry’s Law as being proportional to the partial pressure (or percent) of oxygen in the gas above it. In practical terms, this means that if air and oxygen from compressed gas cylinders are bubbled into separate water samples, the sensor reading from the oxygen-saturated water will be about five times larger than that of the sensor reading from the air-saturated water. If the sensor is calibrated to 100% in air saturated water or water-saturated air (as is done for most YSI meters), then the reading in oxygen-saturated water will be about 500% air-saturation. There is no difference between the oxygen from the compressed gas cylinder in the above hypothetical experiment and that produced by photosynthetically active species in environmental water. Thus, photosynthesis can readily account for “percent air-saturation” values of between 100 and 500% depending on the efficiency and concentration of the photosynthetically-active species present.

Non-Ideal Air/Water Equilibration
Another possible cause of dissolved oxygen readings greater than 100% air saturation arises from the fact that equilibration (or equalization) of the oxygen content of water with the air above it is seldom rapid except in fast-flowing streams. This fact allows temperature changes to produce water conditions that lead to dissolved oxygen readings of over 100% air saturation.

The following example may be useful in understanding this concept: The dissolved oxygen reading of a relatively stagnant lake at night is 9.65 mg/L when the temperature is 17° C. This corresponds to 100% air saturation. During the next day, the sun warms the water to 22° C where 8.22 mg/L represents the 100% air-saturated value. However, the temperature change has occurred rapidly enough to prevent the oxygen in the water from “escaping” to the air because of non-ideal equilibration conditions. The lake still contains 9.65 mg/L of dissolved oxygen, but now the temperature is 22° C where 9.65 mg/L corresponds to 117% air-saturation ({9.65/8.22} x 100). If the lake had been equipped with an efficient aerator, the equilibration process would have been rapid and prevented the observation of readings greater than 100% during the temperature change.

Field Data
From our extensive experience in the field and testing our instruments at the YSI facility, values over 100% air saturation have indeed proven to be quite common. The documented studies in three separate bodies of water in southwest Ohio demonstrate where these “over-saturated” values have occurred.

This first study is of a slow moving stream where a large diurnal cycle is observed for dissolved oxygen. This pattern is thought to be primarily due to the photosynthesis by day and respiration by night of the “green” organisms in the stream, although temperature changes with non-ideal equilibration between air and water may also contribute to the cycle.

The second study pertains to a very clear, spring-fed 12-acre lake which contains a variety of weeds and suspended algae. Again, dissolved oxygen readings above 100% air saturation are common.

The third study shows data from a small farm pond that has a very high algal content. It can be seen from the data taken in this study that readings well over 200% air saturation were observed during the study.

When unusual or unexpected sensor readings are encountered in environmental water, it is important to have post-study quality assurance data to prove that the sensor was functioning properly. Standard YSI QA forms are provided with the data plots to show that the sensors did not drift significantly during the studies and that the DO data are reliable. Note that the DO drifts (as determined by placing the sensor in air-saturated water or water-saturated air after the study) were -5%, -2%, and +1.8 % for the three studies, respectively.


Summary
Dissolved oxygen readings of greater than 100% air saturation can occur in environmental water because of the production of pure oxygen by photosynthetically-active organisms and/or because of non-ideal equilibration of dissolved oxygen between the water and the air above it. In YSI’s experience, this “over saturation” is quite common, with photosynthesis being the factor most often responsible for its existence.
While it is clear that readings greater than 100% air saturation are possible in environmental water, only a well-defined standardized quality assurance program will provide confirmation that the over saturated readings are correct and not due to calibration error or sensor malfunction.

hard to replace expereience if you have any amount of phyto and it is sunny it is strange to not see oxygen levels in excess of saturation. If it lower than saturation that afternoon it is a sign somehting is up and warrants further investigation. I look at percetn saturation almost as as I do obsolute values. We for sure look at saturation levels in our fish hauling tanks, if going to less than 100% you best figure it out in a hurry unless deliverying fish straight to the frying pan.

Not questioning your experience or anything like that. I just hit the reply button rather than the quick reply, so it showed you up on it.

Basically, this is a good indicator that using the % scale is misleading at best. Concentration in solution is much more accurate.

After all, Oxygen dissolved in water is what the fish need, rather than the percent of oxygen that is in the water, not actually dissolved in it. Henry's Law. Requires pressure to pull this off.

Like it really matters!

Getting back to the HSB, I had only expected LMB and BG in my 2 acre pond. I now have 100 6-8" HSB and 100 LMB 6-8" being delivered this week. Having my own pond is very new to me so I hope I'm stocking at the right time with the right fish. I had a complete fish-kill in June and have added over 300 BG (RES, HBG, BG) in past 3 weeks and adding maybe 300-500 more in October (CSBG) and whatever I can round up before then.

I've always been a huge fan of HSB, my biggest to date just over 8 lbs. Fishing TJ's pond on Sunday I had to catch one close to that on the first cast (using a pellet-fly .

Now I'm pretty stoked to have them in my own pond. But now for the learning curve of pellet feeding. What kind, what size, how often, etc...

I've learned so much thanks to everyone on Pond Boss!

100 for a 2 acre pond does fly in the face of conventional stocking advice of 25/acre, but if you feed them I am evidence that high density HSB stocking can work if you are dedicated to feeding.

I think this is a perfect period in your fishery life to stock as your LMB won't be hammering them due to their low qty and smaller size. 100 is a good number, expect to see some in the 16+" range next year, and you know what happens after that!

See if you can hold off stocking until temps drop...just helps a little when transporting. Speaking of which, how are you going to pick up the fish? Do you need help? I have O2 and tanks.

Oh darn. I hate to disagree with you again but maybe I'm misunderstanding you. To me % saturation is more relevant than mg/l due the the fact the mg/l means different things at different temps.

If I've got 6 mg/l in 38 degree water in an open pond something's wrong. If I've got 6 mg/l in 90 degree water it wouldn't concern me.

Rob's delivering them, TJ. For just the reasons you mentioned he and I both agreed that this way he will be assured they'll survive the trip and get introduced to their new home. And, we're shooting for first thing in the morning.

I will then be bugging you again for the feeding questions I mentioned; What kind, how much and how often.

I want to be sure I'm doing this right!

Aqua Max 500 - I think the 600 is a wee bit beyond the gape of a 6" HSB. They will readily accept the 500, so will your BG. I'd start hand feeding at roughly the same time daily - you can do an AM feeding before you head to work, and an evening feeding. Feed the same place every day - this will help them develop a behavioral pattern. Don't be discouraged if it takes a couple weeks for them to catch on, be vigilant, they will come around.

You can consider a feeder - most recommend Texas Hunter brand. I think they are around $600. IMO worth every dime. I'd wait to start slinging feed with the feeder until your fish are trained and you can get a sense for how much feed they can consume in a 10 minute time period. That's the window of time you want to measure their ability to clean up all the pellets...if there is plenty left over after that period, you're feeding too much. If everything is cleaned up in 1 minute, increase the feeding a bit.

Rob's a good guy - you're in good hands. Good luck and post plenty of photos for us, please.

No problem Cecil, I think it is a misunderstanding.

Here is a Nomogram that correlates DO and temperature into true % saturation.



Take a straight edge and line up measured temp with measured DO, and where it crosses the % line, this should be your true saturation.

You can likewise line up temp with % saturation, or DO with % saturation, but will this accurately predict temperature or DO? Not unless it is in a state of equilibrium.

I am just going by with what the meter manufacturers are saying.

I think the graphs are helpful to look over as a point of reference and helps explain to clients how DO is likely to go down with temperature. I did not take it as you questioning rather providing informtion and I appreciate that.

I second opinion of TJ to use 500 for the HSB and bluegill. Texas Hunter Feeder is actually $768 TJ since you need the solar panel. Well worth the investment when doign this much feeding. We sell them to PB members for nice discount (-$49)off that direct price however. You will need to decide on angled legs for shore or dock legs if you have one.

I'm familiar with the nomagram as it's similar to the one in the "black book" put out by Fish & Wildlife (Piper) although that one has a typo that puts it out of whack.

Thanks for the update on the Texas Hunter Feeder, Greg.

I'm fortunate that my pond is in my backyard so I'll begin with feeding them myself until (or if) it's no longer reasonable. But at least I now have a resource for one when I'm ready!

Thanks Greg!

Sorry about the hijack.

I'm kinda interested in DO and Supersaturation for specific reasons.

I'm past that phase myself.

What, the hijack phase!