Time has come for me to establish SMB in my main pond. I'm considering a road trip to Hartley's in in Kingman KS for them. Here's the rundown:

Non feed trained SMB

2-3" = $2/ea
4-6" = $4/ea
6-9" = $8/ea

Goal: Establish SMB population
Pond: 3.5 acres, 2:1 slope, No Aeration, Abundant forage [GSH, FHM, PK Shrimp], 400 8-12" YP, 400 4-8" CSBG, 800 4-8" RES, 70 HSB 10-14"
Questions:
1. Is stocking non feed trained fish a big negative?
2. How does pricing above look? My research indicates it's reasonable.
3. Based on existing fish populations and other factors can you provide some guidance on Size and QTY of Fish to stock [or combination thereof?]

I have a 100G tank, keep alive diffusers and O2 tank and am ready to roll. I'd love to get away with stocking the smaller fish, but don't know if I should be concerned with predation from YP and HSB - hoping gape of YP and HSB are too small?

My orignal plan was to stock 200 2-3", 50-100 4-6", and bring back 6 9"er's for my repro pond.

Thanks in advance all.

How many are you going to stock/haul?

I'd go as big a size as you can just because of the HSB.

I don't see the YP as too much of a threat.

200-300

Prices are good compared to around here.

Think about going all 4"-6" or bigger.

FWIW, if your forage base is that good, pellet trained bass might not stay on feed anyway.

Thanks Theo and Sunil for your feedback. I will keep you apprised of the purchase.

IIRC you have little vegitation where the fingerlings can hide so as Theo suggests 4 - 6" might be best. But .. you would be able to purchase twice the number of 2 - 3" & again IIRC, expect apx. 40% loss due to predation which means you would still come out ahead? I think also you could expect to haul more smaller fish sucessfully?
Memory isn't my strong point any more so maybe someone that knows the data will chime in.
Reguarding Hartleys. That's where I got my SMB & have to add I was/am extreemly happy with the fish.
Sure wish he could supply YP. Where did you get your YP TJ?

Thanks my pal Ric...appreciate the feedback. I could stock 400 2-3"ers but I've read I can expect only 20% survival - those are $10 fish all a sudden! At that rate I'd be better off stocking the largest [6-9"] for $8 a pop.

YP from Rob Hofpar or Hopfar just North of me. I can find his contact info if you'd like. Great fish, zero morts, and they are huge after only 12 mos. I don't know if he can ship or not. I wish NC was closer to me...

I would go with the 4 to 6 as the 2 to 3 are certainly forage size for 8 the 12 inch perch. I'm even a little concerned with my 4 to 5 inch smallmouth with the same size perch in my pond.

So, TJ sends me a PM during the first half of the Vikings-Packer game! At the least, I had to wait until halftime to post, eh??

When I was in KS, Hartley was the most respected producer.

Sizes and predation? Just brainstorming, but I think the YEP would be very unlikely to eat even the 2-3 inch SMB, and will not eat the 4-6 inchers. I do worry more about the HSB. I think you'd be safer with the 4-6 for them.

Stockings rates? If you go with 4-6 inch fish, I don't think that I'd go over 50/acre. For 3.5 acres, that would be 175 total? What's everyone think about that??

As for non-feed trained: in tanks, I've often seen SMB learn to feed on prepared diets from other fishes. Maybe the same thing would happen in the pond? I don't have any experience in the ponds compared to tanks, though.

Dave

Thanks Dave - I think it could have waited a couple days!

Why will HSB that are currently accustomed to eating numerous, pelagic GSH and maybe some of the abundant FHM target 3" smb that will inhabit shallow littoral areas?. I would catch a few HSB and see what they are eating, even if you have to sacrifice a few HSB as dinner guests. Then make a decision as to what sizes of smallie to buy. IMO Best eating HSB are around 12"-14".

Bill, as I was mentioning on one of Cecil's posts a few days back, we've done scads of stomach samples on walleyes in lakes and reservoirs and they very, very rarely have a small smallmouth bass in their stomachs.

Dave beat me to it. I thought the numbers were little high. I second the opinion of Dave on your stocking plan TJ.

Here is what I suggested.

Questions:
1. Is stocking non feed trained fish a big negative?

No. Even if feed trained they soon start eating fish etc up to 90% of diet.

2. How does pricing above look? My research indicates it's reasonable.

I agree.

3. Based on existing fish populations and other factors can you provide some guidance on Size and QTY of Fish to stock [or combination thereof?]

Assuming those are the current size and # in the pond (any offspring? ). I would mix the sizes so you have fast growth at multi-year/size classes. You do have 2 other predators in the pond. I would go with mostly $ in mid size ( 100 2-3s , 75 4-6s and 12 6-9s for the current pond ). This does not count the small growout pond. My guess is 20% survival for the 2-3s , 75% for the 4-6s and 95% for the 6-9s. These #s assume very little to no loss from stocking stress , only natural morts. See this on a must IMO.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...=true#Post22246

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...true#Post169568


http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...=true#Post26019

Winter survival for yoy (small) fish is a factor as is predation. If it were LMB @ 2in going into a pond with LMB the rate would be between 2 and 10 %.

I would still put some small ones in and use the linked info to raise the rate. IMO I would stick with what I said above and use the blocking net to raise the %. With ice you may want to think about a cage.

Thanks all - there's only a little variation in stocking numbers here...I am honored you all took the time to address my questions.

Considering the fact I DO NOT have LMB present, nor do I ever plan on stocking them unless single sex, I was considering erring on the high side for SMB stocking rather than the low in order to help control the BG population. I'm also leaning towards going all 4-6" fish as survival seems to be less of a concern with the larger sizes.

I'll keep everyone in the loop...if you think I'm missing anything please let me know - and again, thanks very much for the guidance.

Commenting on Dr.Dave's post above, I agree. Smallies and walleye frequent similar habitat zones and numerous instances young smallies do not consistantly show up in walleye stomach analyses. This emphasizes my point of, "Why will HSB target or seek out and eat a type of fish (in this case fingerling SMB) that they do not frequently encounter especially when other fish they are used to eating (targeting) such as GSH are common to abundant? I am not saying HSB will not eat any of 3" SMB but IMO mortality due to HSB predation will likely be quite low. Numerous factors can cause mortaility of newly stocked fish.

The many good points above are a good point of beginning for a stocking discussion.

In designing and managing a stocking program what are things that should be considered but are often not adequately considered or planned for ?

Natural morts including predation and also excluding predation. High variability of results. For very small fish going into cold winters (north country) natural morts excluding predation can be very high. On the other hand if you stock for that and you get low morts you have to many predators of one size. On bigger fish not nearly as high or even low. Predation absent habituation can also be a big factor when small fish are stocked into a fishery with multiple adult species. IMO those carry higher risk in small ponds than in big lakes where most of our data on first year survival come from.

Population dynamics 1 2 and 3 years out. What will spawn and when and success of recruitment to adulthood. Then competition for food. Those 2 inch SMB that may survive winter will probably not spawn for 2 years. The 4-6 inch SMB may not spawn for 2 years and the 6-9 probably in year 2 (maybe not next spring). While spawning for the BG , GShiners, FH, RES , and YP next spring if some not already. Over abundant sunfish , GShiners , YP and HSB could easily suppress SMB spawning.

Risk of unintended consequences. Stocking failure , spawning failure , time considerations upon population dynamics , the fill the pond effect with new ponds (fish attempt to fill the space [carrying capacity] with their own kind ASAP). All of these are risk factors. See the unintended consequences article in the next PB mag issue.

Risk Management. Last but certainly not least the cost of being wrong added to the further cost of not being able to find the right fish to fix the first error or having to start over.

Those are the reasons for the suggestion I made to reduce the potential for poor results and reduce the risk of failure by stocking 3 sizes of SMB and habituating the small ones.


Thoughts - what all do you think about during the pre-stocking period ?

I close my eyes and think of Britain.

When are those fish going to arrive?!

I very much like that thought process ewest. I can only guess but would guess it's the best approach.
However, if $ are a concern I would favor BC's & Dave's thinking.

One thing I didn't plan for at initial stocking was bird predation. I had 3 Kingfishers take out an estimated 1/3 of my RE stocking.

I like ewest's 3 size approach for initial stocking especially for this tj57's situation for smallies where forage species are already well established. In this case BG, RES, and YP could easily get overpopulated if just fingerling smallies are stocked. With 3 sizes there will be 2-3 age classes and a spawn in spring of 2010 IMO will occur if some of the smallies are on the large size of 9"-10". New research has shown that smallies can spawn at 8"-10" long. For more info on this topic see Cody's article in PBoss mag May-Jun 09: "Smallmouth Bass Nesting Habits".

To back up BC's opinion of smb spawnning the year after stocking .. I stocked 2 - 3" smb in spring 07. They pulled off a heavy spawn in 08 after consuming ALOT of FH minnows. Litterly hundreds of yoy smb. My best guess is 10% survived though.

Placed my order today: 250 4-6", 10 9"

RE Eric: 20% survival rate on the 2-3" fish...just couldn't pull the trigger on it - so I realocated that capital towards the 4-6" fish.

I am hopeful to have thousands that size and larger end of next summer from my repro pond and plan on stocking the top 1% into the main pond for another year class.

If you think I really made an error omiting the 2-3"er's I will grab 100 when I'd down there. I still can't throw my arms around why I might need them instead of just going the next largest size.

Just my personal opinion but I think you'll be fine without the 2"-3" fish.

My advice is to lay out as much cash as you feel comfortable with and get whatever you want.

If I understand, you're getting (10) 9" fish?

I'd reallocate and get at least (20) of those. It will be the highest percentile of survival, and you have 3.5 acres.

I would get a few of the smaller fish also. The SMB are a sly fish, and they'll survive and grow. And admit it, there's nothing more cute than a 3-4" SMB. Just makes you all warm inside.

Now to the business. Your B.I.S.A. dues are in severe arears. I think we are going to ease up on the $1,000,000.00 initiation fee. For you, TJ, let's make it $450,000.00. No interest or penalities. We're not the IRS, you know.

TJ, I agree with Sunil. I'd reallocate your funds and go with at least 10 SMB per acre, so that'd be 35 fish. Then what ever you have left over, I'd put into the smaller ones.

Why not JUST stock the repro pond with larger fish and then transfer offspring into cages and get them on pellets until 4-6 inches prior to releasing in the main pond?

I think there is some confusion here with what TJ is doing with the larger 9"-10" smallies. I think he is putting them in a separate smaller reproduction pond where he will transfer out the offspring to the larger 3.5 ac pond. I'm not use how big this reproduction pond is.

Good points, everyone.

I could wait for my existing adults [8] in the reproduction pond to spawn, but they might not. This is my first effort at this and I've been told SMB spawning is not automatic. I'm trying to temper my expectations.

If I do pull a spawn, then I'd have to hope enough YOY survive the summer...again, I've been told to expect predation from adult SMB on the YOY despite the large amounts of FHM and GSH I stocked as forage. [the minnows might nail my fry too!]

So, let's say I'm successful on both accounts above. Now I have many 2-6" fish and could stock them into the pond. However, bear in mind those 10-12" YP are now up to 14", the HSB are pushing 18-20", and BG and RES are 8+ too. Much more predation on SMB is likely.

With all those factors in mind, I think stocking SMB now, at a size safe from predation, is right. I will take 4 of the 9" adults from Hartley's and stock them into the repro pond making my population 12 adult fish. I'm leaving it at that. The other 6 9"ers and the 250 4-6"ers will make it to the main pond. This will be my first, and last, stocking of SMB from a hatchery other than my own. Too rich for my blood.

TJ you don't have to use small ones especially since you can add them from the other pond in time if needed. Use a blocking net when you do as per those threads. I am not sure you need that many (250) mid-size SMB. You could save a few $ on them. 150 of that size plus 25 larger ones would save you $ 340.

I agree with ewests last & quote from Dave W:
Smaller numbers of SMB mean bigger SMB sooner & therefore fish with greater chance of reaching their full potential. My pond is apx 2.5+ ac & I stocked 100 SMB. I got extraordinary initial growth.

These are good points...but remember my BG YOY - I need them crushed - does this temper you qty recommendations?

I like how you conveniently avoid discussing your B.I.S.A dues.

You give me a proper initiation party and we'll see if I can't get around to cutting said cheque. We're talking Peso's or Yen?

Rupees.

Yes, I forgot about those & I don't have an athorative answer. I would guess it depends on goals. With the lower predator stocking rate you may likely end up stunting the BG. I get lost trying to figure it all out .. how would it all affect the YP? But you also have Wipers. They will help with the BG YOY? Dave W? ewest? BC? Anyone?

Firstly, IMO the adult smalies in the repro pond with presence of ample minnow/shiner forage will not eat a significant or large percentage of the YOY bass - see my Nov-Dec 09 PBoss article "Growing Smallies Into Trophies" for more details about this topic.
I agree with TJ since he has basically a "full" crop of YOY BG, he needs them "hammered" or else he is going to have problems in 2010 and 2011 with way too many BG. Supposedly adult YP will effectively prey on BG especialy during winter. For several reasons, I think that research was biased and good predation of his 2009 YOY BG by the YP will not happen this winter. Thus the more larger smallies he can add, the better the predation of the 2009 BG crop will be. I even question the ability of the newly stocked immature smallies (4"-9") to control YOY BG when other soft rayed forage are available and common(again for details of this see my Nov-Dec. Smallie article).

I predict, that without LMB, this pond will need supplimental removal of 2009 BG crop to achieve a balance. I hope I am wrong about this. Time will tell.

1. Bill, I was hoping the existence of forage in the repro pond might help the SMB YOY survival. Relieves some of the concern I harbored - thanks.

2. I do worry about the heavy GSH/FHM populations competing with SMB YOY for zooplankton. With that in mind would you recommend:

A. Regular fertilzing?
B. Regular AP Fry Powder feedings daily with a belt feeder?

3. Spring 10 or 11 I will sex some LMB if needed and add single sex to the main pond to help control BG.

TJ:

I don't mind driving down to hammer those YOY CBG. Now to figure out how to get them to survive an 8 hr drive inside the car.

Could it wait 'till early next Spring after ice-out here? I'll have the pier and cages ready by then.

1. My PBFamily is welcome anytime! 8 hrs is not an issue with 02. Heck, with cold temps you may even be able to get away with aeration - but I'll leave that to the experts.

2. Spring is great too...can't believe we're already talking Spring...it's not even officially Autumn yet!

TJ - I would not worry about too little zooplankton for the smallie fry in the larger regular pond. I think SMB fry and minnows will be feeding in differen niche areas and enough smallie fry will survive to provide good recruitment. Over winter the YP, SMB, and HSB may thin out the minnows so there won't be as many as this fall.

What are the minnow/shiner populations like in the reproduction pond? Even there the minnows would have to be pretty dense to compete heavily with the SMB fry. 12 Breeder smallies can eat quite a few minnows during the winter, spring, early summer period.

I'd say I have 5k FHM. I plan on adding more if you recommend and don't feel competition for zoopl would exist with the YOY SMB.

TJ you can help the SMB in the big pond by trapping and seining out small BG. Another method is disturbing the BG beds by dragging a seine across them during the spawn for about 10 days. Another option is partial rotenone of the beds but that is best done by an expert.

Good advice Eric. I will be culling every Female I catch, and will try traps and seines. I know Rainman wants every CSBG I can collect and other forum members are welcome to as many as they want. My only request is they stay long enough to let me feed them a steak dinner then get some cocktails with Brucile. I feel blessed to have a CSBG factory that will enable me to help others out whenever they need it.

How's that for looking at glass half full?

When you put it that way, the glass runneth over.

P.S. Try further spawning disturbances by catching male BG off the beds.

Free steak? Did TJ really say that?

Looks like I'm delivering smallies, puttin' on the feedbag and leavin' with a bunch of CSBG! Life can be grand as a PBF member!

Dang if it wasn't a two day drive.....



Very true Rex, very true!

It's smoked muskrat steak for you, Rex...with a smooth PVCish finish on the palate.

Cocktails and a steak dinner with you and Brucille, huh?

Tempting, but no, you're going to need more. Get Shawn Banks over there to facilitate ensuring that no attendee gets to bed at a reasonable hour. Just make sure to tell him "no Keystone Light."

Consider Master Banks in...he owes me a visit anyhow. The four of us together could get into a whole heap of trouble.

Sounds like another regional PB opportunity in the making??

Looks like no more trips for me to Lincoln. You want to feed me plastic and last time, Bruce put some plastic in my teeth!

Rainman, I'll feed you some good venison back strap if you ever make it out to Virginia... We can then go to shooting range and I'll teach you target identification skills!

Rex:

If you do go out that way, swing thru Indiana. I'll help with the driving! I'll even throw some of those deer sticks in a cooler for snacks along the way.

CJ:

How long is the range? I could bring the new rifle....

I live right next to Quantico Marine Corp Base. They have a 1000 yard deck... That long enough for you?

That'll do for middlin' range. The bullet is still supersonic @ 2100 Yds, 4800+ ft. lb. of energy at the muzzle, 49.4 MOA needed to hit the target @ 2000 Yds with a 300 Yd zero. I've got 20 MOA built into the scope base to start.

It might give some of the stuff the boys there have a run for the money.

Sounds like it... They got some big stuff though! Occasionally my house shakes from it!

300 4-6" pellet trained SMB will be the newest resident apex predators in the main pond tomorrow afternoon. I realize this exceeds the advice offered here, however, I'm hoping the extra can help with the BG control and I just couldn't pass up the great pricing from Greg/Rex's source. Will keep everyone apprised....

In an effort to keep hammering my BG population, the 3.5 acre pond now consists of:

135 4-14" HSB
300 4-6" SMB
380 10-12" YP
1000's CSBG 1-8"
850 RES 6-9"
FHM, GSH, Papershell Crayfish, PK Shrimp

Been reading a lot of back issues, and Dr Mark Cornwall wrote an article back in 05[?] in which his research suggested a pond can sustain a healthy population of GSH with SMB [no LMB] indefinitely. I welcomed that news.

Here are my initial hopes:

SMB will take some pellets as they are pellet trained, and also target BG and GSH.

YP ideally will focus on the pellets and BG - not sure if they are fast enough for the GSH

HSB pellets, GSH and BG

I also plan on additional measures of periodic seinings for the CSBG and culling of all Females caught. If that doesn't work I have the old single sex LMB or stocking a few Esox...preferrably the former.

TJ, I put two of your SMB in my aquarium with 2 of my CSBG and 5 HyBC . I also put in about 1500 FH. The Bluegill and crappie started hammering the the fatheads but the Smallmouth weren't interested in the FH. I thought maybe the move had stress them a bit but when I put some pellets in for the FH, the smallies started eating. The smallies are as fat as a football---I don't think they could swim fast enough to even catch a FH!

Something I am interested in is how will the predation from both HSB and SMB affect the GSH numbers. GSH are more open water fish, so the HSB could play a bigger factor in their demise than the SMB. Now all you need are some walleye TJ and you'll have one sweet predatory pond! HAHA

With all of the fish possibly eating pellets there should be some interesting results to contemplate.

Good job, Rainman. Makes for an interesting little addition to the story.

SMB habituated on pellets can be a good and bad thing. Good in that they will grow well if they can get access to pellets, but bad in that they probably will not eat a lot of BG. Literature suggests smallies are not good predators of the sunfish types. The only failure of stocking smallies I ever had was putting fingerling SMB in with green sunfish (GSF).

Expensive GSF food?

Bill,


Smallmouth my not be good at keeping bluegills in check but I don know from personal experience they will hammer the small ones. Of course I had a high density of smallmouth in the pond at the time.

Cecil,
How many smallies is a high density? And how big were the small BG that the SMB "hammered".

I had about 100 in the .62 acre pond. They were hammering the 3 to 4 inch bluegill. (This was back when I had reproducing bluegill in the pond.)

Here's a post I had saved from a forum member "Lakedoctor" talking about a SMB/BG pond:

I think the key to a successful SMB/BG pond IMO is to stock the SMB first and give them a jump start...

Stock FHM and crayfish first... Allow them to build their numbers, then stock the SMB. Allow the original stockers to chow down on all the FHM and crayfish until you have fish in the 8"-10" class. Then stock BG in the 4"+ range. Those 4" BG will not be eaten by the 8"-10" SMB but their young will and even advanced sized young will.

If you stock the BG and SMB at the same time, the BG quickly outgrow the mouths of the SMB. You then end up with way too many BG who are too big for the smaller mouth SMB to eat. This can happen with LMB, particularly in northern ponds but not nearly as commonly.

TJ, did you let freedom ring or what?

I'm still going to stick to my guns and say pondowners should not expect SMB alone to control BLG reproduction (so that some big BLG are produced). I know this isn't always a popular statement here, but I'm "obligated" to make the warning.

Ok, I just couldn't leave this alone. I "had" to come back and add a bit more. Let me re-word this a little. I’ve got to stick by my guns and say that I have seen no personal evidence and no scientific articles that SMB alone will control sunfish reproduction so that big sunfish are produced. I’m always glad to admit when I’m wrong, and certainly our truly interested pondmeisters can do things such as trapping/removal, additional predators, feeding, etc., that changes the equation. However, for that base question, and for the time being, I will have to continue saying that I don’t think SMB will control sunfish. We just finished one experiment along these lines, and I'll try to get that in the next available issue of Pond Boss (Mar-Apr, I think).

One of the great aspects of this forum Dr. Dave is that we have access to experts such as yourself. Stick to your guns. Tell us over and over. We appreciate your input. Plus, much like Bill Cody did in 2008, you include photos of the magnificent GSF in your presentation which is an indication of superior intelligence.

I tend to agree with the opinion that SMB won't control my BG population alone. I'm doing all I can by:
Opting for higher density, larger size [4-7"] SMB stocking than recommended [100/acre]
Heavy existing HSB [5-15"] population [50/acre]
Heavy existing YP [8-12"] population [120/acre]
Steep banks [2:1 slope] allowing for less aquatic vegetation
Culling all Female CSBG caught/seined/trapped
Placement of permanent trap in shallow sanctuaries for biweekly BG removal

All these things combined should assist my efforts - but my last ditch contingency plan calls for adding 25 - 50 single sex LMB - more as necessary. Real trick here will be to identify sex correctly - must do this when they are gravid and spawning. Nice upside knowing I may have a nice little population of 3-5 lb LMB as a bonus.

It will be evident in a few years whether or not this corrective stocking worked. Thanks to all for your guidance and input.

Did the fish go in or what?

Pictures?

TJ is ignoring you Sunil.

You might have to break out the sock puppets and get all medieval on him.

(That sounded weirder that I thought it would).

I'm downloading the very few pix I have - sorry my documentation of this process was not up to PB standards. I stand before you...ashamed.

JHAP - I'm waiting for another allusion to the Men's locker room to complete the cycle of JHAP weirdness....

Yo Mamma!


It was a long weekend, I'm too tired for a witty come back, so I reverted to the basics.

THAT'S no way to get SMB pix posted sending me to emergency therapy.

That was just a warning shot.

Post the darn photos or expect Operation Sock Puppet Storm to commence shortly.

Sounds great, TJ! Great plan.

TJ I agree with Dave on BG ,GSF and PS. On other lepomis species I don't know. I think Theo will let us know on RES but I still have not seen any evidence that RES will overpopulate. I don't see much written on the other lepomis like RBS , LES etc. and SMB predation.

Before you add LMB remember that and electrofishing boat can remedy a lot of fish population problems fast. Shock up a bunch of BG and remove the low RW , odd looking , ugly or nice ones and keep the ones in good condition or those that are just plain mean.

I have had two years of RES spawning in my new pond, the first with no predation, the second with small SMB and YP present. There are nice numbers of young RES, but no where near as many compared with small BG in a pond with many LMB present.

As we have discussed in the past, I am very much on board with the SMB-redear sunfish combination. There actually is one darn good study done on that, from University of Missouri. The author was some guy named Gabelhouse (humor intended for our Nebraska crew: TJ and Dr. Bruce).

I went with Dave's advise when I stocked RES & SMB. I had one super all summer long spawn in 08 & a very light spawn this past summmer. No indication of over population of RES. I'm actuall trying to get some YP started for extra forage as the SMB are not as fat as I wanted.
The quote from Lakedoctor was just to give another viewpoint. I personally favor Dave's approach.

I was never impressed with the info regarding the combo of SMB and BG provided by Lakedoctor. He has not posted here in years. I wonder if he is still in business? I question how well SMB-BG ponds he referred to are still doing after several years. IMO the SMB combination can get in big trouble balance wise if the smallies have one or two infamous bad spawns and we all know the reliable reproductive capabilitites each year of BG. The risk of fish balance problems with smallies decreases with the fewer sunfish that are present. I totally agree with Dr. Dave that the only good sunfish type with smallies is the RES. Then if the smallies need more food use other types of forage. I discuss good alternative forage foods for smallies in the Nov-Dec 2009 Pond Boss magazine.

Good point Eric - if shocking wasn't too expensive [ie: get shawn up here for a Husker game and pull his boat] this would be feasible. If a guy had a market for CSBG AND owned a shockboat it could be a nice even trade!

I look forward to the newest installment on SMB

TJ, if you're trying to remove BG, look at getting a fyke net... I think you'll get your moneys worth for that project and many future ones.

Good call - Essup and I may try to make one ourselves, then end up buying one after all most likely!

Well, if you can't sew.....

I still haven't priced material, but I'm sure that I could find someone in the Amish community that would be able to sew it together. I did find a cutting pattern to make one tho!