First post here but have gathered a ton of info here in the last year.
I built onto a existing pond in 08 in the fall approx 1/4 to 1/2 acre 8' to 18' that had approx 2 dozen channel cat in the range of 2lb.
I have added a few structures in the pond for fish cover trees, pallets, and large rocks Ect.
The fish truck is coming this wed and I would like to get your advice on how to properly stock this pond based on the location and the channel cat that are already there.
I will be using a aqua pro feeder on a timer system.
Thanks in advance

Matt

Hey Matt - welcome to the Forum! I see some of the resident experts are lurking here on a Saturday night and they will most likely be along shortly to guide you into several scenarios.

I suppose the first question anyone will pose will be what other species are you interested in stocking - or is this going to be strictly a CC pond? In Kansas you have a lot of options for fish: LMB, SMB, RES, HSB, BG, PS, GSF [if you're into that sort of thing] et al. Depending on the species you covet and your management goals are will determine the most efficient manner in which to proceed.


Again, welcome aboard!

Hi and thanks for the response


I would like to stock bass 6 to 8 inch with some blue gill and fathead minnows and possibly couple more dozen channel.
I have only been around farm ponds here but have never took into consideration the whole balance of the food chain until reading the post on here.
I didnt know if stocking all at once would be a waste of money because of the larger channels in already. Bass seem spendy at 3.25 a piece if there going to be CC food.
I am not sure if my 10 year old son or me is more excited about getting the fish.

Thanks again Matt

MM

The experts might rip down everything I humbly offer here - but we're both lurking on the Forum late and I thought I'd take a shot at this!

If you are starting out with 2 doz 2 lb CC you are right - ideal circumstances would dictate NOT having CC's present at the time of stocking. But I think you can still reach your goals.

I would suggest getting the CC pellet trained ASAP in order to relieve some pressure off the fish you are stocking - so they don't become very expensive forage. You are on the right track here IMO - feeding begins when temps get into the 50's-60's.

This Spring I would stock BG and FHM. Lots of experienced guys can guide you on qty...probably at least 500 BG and 5-10 lbs of FHM I would think. I would personally start with larger BG fingerlings - something 3"+. My logic here would be to get the BG feeding, and subsequently growing to a sexually mature size [4-6"] and you might pull off a spawn yet this year. If you pull one off, it will increase the BG population exponentially. With the addition of FHM and a pellet program, you should be able to mitigate the predation from your existing population of CC.

This Fall is when I'd personally think about adding LMB once you have an established forage base of BG and FHM. I'm not certain on QTY , but many follow a 100 LMB/acre formula.

On the CC - not sure when you would want to stock the additional 24 fish. I might wait until Spring 2010. I think your current population will grow tremendously with the presence of so much forage AND the pellet program - you'll have some 5-6 lbers cruising by Fall.

Sounds as if you have structure in place and that will help the FHM reproduce and hopefully create a self sustaining population.

I know what you mean about being excited for stocking time. It never gets old...I'm still like a kid on Xmas everytime I think, plan or actually release fish into my ponds...I always will be!

I've been consuming every tidbit of knowledge on the Forum for a little over a year - I hope my response reflects a fraction of what I've been taught.

TJ

TJ


I think I am on the same page as you.
I forgot to mention that the CC that are there I have been hand feeding for about a year.
When they had spawned in the past they had always ate all the little ones but since I started feeding about a dozen made it into winter I have yet to see them this year but still pretty cold water here.
If I continue on the feeding I figured the CC would maybe leave the others alone long enough to possibly get the process going.
I will post some pics of the pond and new fish this week.

Thanks Again Matt

Someone step in before Matt follows my advice...jeesh!

TJ

It sounds good to me.
Bottom line is I want some fish patience is not my best attribute.
I am building a new pond this year a bit bigger.
Hoping to post on here to get some good advice from guys like you
rself.
I talked my wife into a 973 cat told her it would save a bundle on the construction of the ponds and clearing land. hehe
It will, if it stays together. Other wise I might be living out of it.

Matt

MM

I'm jealous as Hades you pulled off the cat purchase...I am renting one all this week to move 45 tons of rock piles and sediment/erosion control completed before we have our Spring rains begin next week - according to the 10-day forecast. I have a feeling it's going to be hard to give up the cat to the rental company.

I hear you on the patience front. I climbed that hill and still do everyday when it comes to managing ponds...I waited 37 years to build my ponds and was done waiting. Thankfully the gentlemen on the forum talked some sense into me and I now am convinced I did the right thing by taking the stocking and habitat construction deliberately and with specific goals in mind.

If you need your pond fix go hop your neighbors fence until this Fall...thankfully I have Condello helping me be patient by just OPENING the gate.

Good luck and keep everyone apprised of your steps and success.

MM

One last thing - if think you ever need the services of a top notch biologist I would recommend Shawn Banks in NW Missouri. Not sure where in KS you are but he's super knowledgable, a PondBoss magazine contributor, and an all around great guy.

http://www.midwestlake.com/
pondrx@midwestlake.com Phone: 816-804-5604 Fax: 816-586-5553

Speaking of Pondboss, if you aren't a subscriber I would highly recommend it - an annual subscription runs you less than 10 LMB fingerlings. Also, a great book I own and provided tons of assistance is Perfect Pond: Want One?

TJ

Thanks TJ for the response and info I am planning on subscribing to the mag.
I found building my pond was almost if not more enjoyable than the final product.
I am looking into a wind generated aeration. Looks like by some of the post I will need to research and ask a few questions before I make that leap. Small steps dont want the wife to catch on to my madness.

Matt

Congrats on the new pond and welcome aboard!

We'll be waiting for pictures, so bring 'em on!

Somehow it seems as though this thread got lost in a alternate universe in which only Madmatt and TJ existed and Weissguy visited once.

Where is everybody???

Welcome to Pond Boss Mad, we're glad you found us. I don't know what all the experts are doing but you can be sure that I will put a demerit in their personnel files and this will definately be discussed during their annual reviews. Raise, smaise.

Paging the experts.

My hope is my scneario isn't too far off the mark - Grasshopper is learning....?

MM

I've been reading a lot of positive feedback lately regarding Windmill Aeration. Considering the size of your watershed you might be a great candidate from what I understand. If I recall correctly, the most recent Pondboss magazine has Bob Lusk discussing their merits - maybe in the Q/A section in the front of the mag. I'm intrigued by them - wind being FREE and GREEN.

I'd encourage you to search for Windmill Aeration threads list several dealers who not only make the magazine possible, but also extend nice discounts to PB members! Can't beat it with a stick.

TJ, you're advice is good. I'll throw some ideas out there...

When the stock truck comes, I would stock at least 10 lbs of FHM. The CC already present will prey on them, but if they are being fed they shouldn't hammer them too hard.

I would stock 200 BG and 100 RES in the 3-4" range. Some will get eaten by the CC and that is why I recommend adding a few more than normal. I would also stock 30 3-4" LMB.

You have a more northern pond, so the worry of "building" a BG, RES forage base is not needed. You will want the LMB growing this summer so when the BG and RES spawn next year, the LMB will be of a size to prey on the young or you will have too many BG and RES that will stunt.

Next spring you can stock another 30 LMB. You can add CC anytime you want, with the addition of the LMB the natural reproduction will be none existent to rare so the CC will be a put and take fishery. Make sure you stock CC of a size that they will not turn into LMB food.

Best of luck!

Thanks to everyone that responded I will be headed to the property tomorrow morning.
I will snap some pics try to get them loaded. (might need help)
Any thoughts on stocking grass carp.
There is not to much veg in it but does in the summer tend to get moss around the banks or it did when it wasnt as deep.
I thought i read that carp eat veg that comes up from the bottom more so then moss on top which I think would come from stagnant water in the hotter months.
But then again I have no idea what I am talking about.

Thanks Matt

Grass carp do not really control "moss" so I wouldn't consider them if you do not have any other vegetation issues. Tilapia will eat "moss" but I am not sure about sources or legality of them in KS...

MM

Filamentous algae isn't on a Grass Carp's diet plan unfortunately. Tilapia hammers it as do Ghost Shrimp I believe. Since both of these options require stocking $$ with no guarantees I would shift my focus to aeration which also helps suppress FA growth.

TJ

Hartleys fish farm near Kingman Kansas gets tilapia in every year. If you want some, you should call now to let them know. Normally they get them in May from a place in Colorado. I stocked them last year and they didn't do much to my algae. FA grows underwater and then builds up oxygen and floats to the top. They may have been munching the underwater FA but I have so much vegetation I never saw a dent.

I PATIENTLY waited a year after stocking my fatheads and bluegill before I stocked my bass. I wanted to make sure the food base was well established. The fatheads will spawn alot during the summer. They are not a one and done fish.

Hey Mike - how is your FH population holding up? I'm in the midst of waiting a year also - it requires A LOT of patience - but I'm hoping to establish a solid forage base. Let me know how you did...thanks!

My FH's are doing great but they have so much habitat to escape too. With all my vegetation they can dart all around to safety. I have also put pallets around for them to spawn around. Hopefully I get the vegetation under control and then we will see how the population holds up. I would say at this point, the bass have all the food they could need....if they can catch it.

Well I played at the pond to long so had to work late.
Anyway here is some pics of my pond got the fish released today.
The CC went crazy on the FH minnows.
I attempted to feed before the release but they were not interested in pellets.
I put 250 BG 100 res 13lb FHM 25 LMB.
http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/tt111/madmatts_photo/
I hope this link works never done it before.

Thanks again to everyone
Matt

Nice looking pond Matt.....ROCK CHALK JAYHAWKS !!!

Very nice looking pond... The water color looks great! I also like the large rocks you have laid along the perimeter of the pond. The pond really blends into the property... Its gonna be a lot of fun!

What were the sizes of the BG, RES and LMB you stocked... Those were good numbers so you should be off to a great start. You'll be able to stock another 25-30 LMB next spring and you'll be set!

Thanks for the kind words.
Everything was 3 to 4 inch fish.
I have owned this property for about 4 years and continues to be work in progress.
The prior owner dumped trash in valleys and creek beds for many years. (Knuckleheads)
Have loaded and hauled out 7 of the biggest dumpsters they would deliver.


Thanks again Matt

Been there done that as far as cleaning up the prior owner's trash heap! No fun, but the end result is worth it...

3"-4" is a great size... The BG will probably spawn a bit this year. The growth rate of the LMB will be great. It wouldn't surprise me if by year's end you had 9 or 10" LMB.

The only thing I would keep an eye on is if the BG do spawn, you only have 25 LMB to keep up with the YOY BG. They will most likely only be 5"-6" in size when the first spawn occurs. This means they'll be able to feed on BG up to about 1.5"-2" BG, after which they BG will be too big. That initial year class of BG will grow rather fast with your pond being so new. This can cause the rather common scenario of your BG outgrowing your bass. This is rather common in more northern ponds... The CC will help you out in thinning out some of the BG as well. If the BG do not spawn this year, you will be set with no worry of the BG outgrowing your bass.

My next deal is a 6 or 8 inch syphon.
I left the corner couple feet lower for a temp outlet.
I worked on this one night until 2 in the morning trying to beat a rain storm which worked out but didnt have time for the installation of the drain.
I am unsure of how many acres of water shed this pond gets but I dug out approx 30' wide 150'long from 2' to 22' along side of the existing pond and raised the dam 5'.
The next day returned after a 3" rain it was almost full of the new excavated area.
Do you think a 6" would be enough to keep up with the water runoff.
I have a hard time with all the mathematical equations so Ill have to admit I wing it alot.

Matt