I am getting close to the end of this years winter (I hope). So, it's time to started on this years plans to meet my goals of growing some really big lmb and some nice sized HSB. And hoping not to kill off these fish in doing so. Our early spring should start up in the next 3 weeks on or around Feb.the 20th (Based on years of keeping a fishing journal) Here is a list of things I have started on, along with the things I plan to start on in the next 60 t0 90 days.

Have you started your pond management plans to meet your goals for this year?

#1 - I had a water test done through LSU Agg Extension.
#2 - I will be sending a water sample off this week to Mr. Bill Cody for his thoughts.
#3 - Met with Todd Overton and discussed adding Gypsum to increase the calcium in the pond water. I picked up 3 tons from Todd yesterday, and I might need another 3 tons before I am finished. And we are starting our testing for the amount of Alum needed to reduce Phosphates.
#4 - Todd and I discussed my loss of the TFS this winter and almost no chance of replacing them this year. So, I am adjusting my fish population by using a mix of 2" to 4" GSH that will be added to the pond on or around April 1st. Lets say 80 lbs or so for now. I do not expect for them to take hold and reproduce in the pond due to the lmb and hsb but they might. . I want to take the pressure off the cnbg and get this years hatch of cnbg to 4 to 6" length.
#5 - Add 12 to 15 lbs per acre of Tp(hopefully large enough not to be eaten) to the pond with the GSH. Again to get the cnbg to the desired size.
#6 - On or around Feb the 20th, start a culling program on the lmb. Removing all males caught along with any poor condition females.
#7 - Treat pond with Alum to remove excess nutrients.
#8 - Change the type and brand of fish food, hoping this will help reduce excess nutrients in the pond. I going to give Optimal a fair shot at it this year. I may supplement with Purina.

#9 - Sell some of the crap I never use to pay for all of this.

Tracy,
Did you guys discuss flushing your water, or trying to add water shed to the pond? Is it time to think about a different area to build a pond where you do have better water prospects?

Seems to me that even if you get your pond corrected this year, it is going to be a battle. Rinse repeat, year after year with that pond location.

All that said, That is an interesting plan. How much food are you planning to throw each day?

Dang Tracy
Those are some goals! I'm going on 4 years myself and have no goals other than watch the pond from the window. After building the house I can't even afford to pay attention..... sad ain't it.....I think tilapia will have a good impact on your pond.my bloom is still going on. The tfs are still kicking other than getting hammered by something (small fish) almost every day. Don't know where the crappie went but they are a lot less than they were before.... so much for overpopulation so far.

Hay there Brian and Pat. I agree Brian with your thoughts of increasing the watershed and I have a plan. But what I really need is some rain. When I built the pond it filled in 4 months and did so this time of year. And the watershed is not near as nice as yours but it should keep the pond full and flushed in a normal year. Problem is, I continue to receive little rain. A drought is an understatement. The driest fall and winter I have ever seen at the farm. I sure hope my game plan does not have to be repeated every year. But I will stay the course for my goals. And I have been thinking of giving you a shoutout. I may add some solar surface aeration this year and would need your guidance. I have been thinking of reducing the 24 hr per day diffuser time during the heat of the summer and was thinking surface aeration might help if I decide to go to running diffusers at night. Hot water top to bottom 24/7 can't be good. and as far as feeding, I always have plans of reducing feed but when I see All those feeding at the trough, I want to feed more, lol. I have to stick to a plan

Pat, your pond without overpopulation of Cp would not be the only pond I have seen where the Cp grew to a nice size and did not take over the pond. All ponds seem to be different don't they? You mentioned the tfs and it's good if they survived this winter. While working with my new Golden Retriever pup yesterday at the pond, I swear I saw something that was sparkling at the top of the water in the middle of the pond and suspected it was tfs. Now wouldn't that be nice if mine survived this really cold winter?

So, nether of you two mentioned your spring plans, what is up with that? Brian, how are your indoor Tp doing?

Tracy, how are you going to spread your gypsum? I've used tarps under bucket loads of gypsum, and a nozzled 2" pump to spread it. It went pretty quick. I think I have a video, I'll check. I need 20-30 tons gypsum myself, but we have to get it from OK, and it's $$$.

I've completed 5 years this summer/fall from stocking and starting on my 6th with my main pond.

I also am having to make some adjustments. Mostly dialing back the BG population and supplementing my LMB.

Al, I unloaded 3 tons off my duel axel trailer using a shovel and the front end loader on my tractor. I added most of it into a ditch that runs between my sediment pond and the big pond. And then turned on the water well running at or around 50 gpm into the ditch. It flushed some of the larger particles of gypsum down stream and into the pond along with flushing some dissolved gyp into the pond also. I added a little more than half of the gyp this way. I will continue to add the remainder of it the same way. This is the process I used when adding agg lime to the pond and I think it has works better than adding things like agg lime or gypsum to the pond bottom or flushing from a barge or boat. Anything that does not dissolve at that time will go to the bottom of the pond where there is little to disturb it. But adding it the way I do, anytime we get rain, the sediment pond overflows into the ditch and will disperse the mineral into the pond. As I was adding the gyp yesterday I saw foam run down the shoreline for 200 yds and that tells me I am getting some dispersion. I also saw a new sandy looking shoreline at the ponds edge at the ditch, where the non dissolved material made a new sandy bottom where wave action will also help to dissolve it. Hay, it may not be the best way to add it but it has worked well for me in the past. It would work better if I had the diffusers running and moving the water around. My goal is to raise the calcium above 25ppm, I am @ 13 and a half ppm right now. Are you seeking the same at your place, what is your goal when adding 20 to 30 tons? $$$ Yep! And do you lay a tarp on the ground around the ponds edge and flush it in?

snrub, I like eating Bg, a good way to dial it back but not sure it will be enough to make much of a dent. I like the smb you have added and wished I could put something together here to do the same. I think I understand you are not a fishing fanatic but I think once those smb get in the 4+ lb range you might be the one that gets hooked. I love those larger smb, they never give up the fight!

Tracy, sounds like you got the gypsum deal down pat. I'll probably do something similar to that. I need to get my pond's hardness up, and I've got the numbers somewhere, but it's gonna be hard to do. If my hay guy limes our pastures this year, I'll probably do lime too. He buys semi loads, and gets a really good price. He offered to let me join his order next time he does it. I jumped all over that.

Tracy,
Tilapitopia is going well. Breading is underway. I have a friend that is helping, so fingers crossed. Either way, now that the barn has an extra loft, I can put a lot of the light weight stuff that is not used often up there and make a permanent room for Tilapitopia 5.0, the final version. I am going to have one large holding tank for the larger fish, three smaller grow out tanks and a few brood tanks in one room on the southeast part of the barn. My solar is going to get hard mounted, I am going with 12 panels and hopefully one windmill. It should be a 48 volt system when all is said and done. If you want to add solar aeration, I can help. It is not that hard. The big trick is position and amount. Start small and if you want more, add a second system.

With all the cold this season, I have had a big die off of weeds and phytoplankton. I had greater than 10 feet of visibility last week. Thankfully, this week I am down to six feet of visibility and the phytoplankton is coming back.

What a year.

As for rain, hope you get enough to help.

Quote from Brian, "Breading is underway". Sorry, just can't resist this one. (Bill D, you jump in too.)

Breaded tilapia-sounds really tasty, especially with a little garlic, other spices, maybe a dash of Spike seasoning. Yummmm!

I like breaded tilapia also. He he he Brian we luv ya man!

Will, I finally got a good rain, best rain I have seen since last June, and rain is in the forecast for most of the next 7 days. I also did my Alum test and it took around 5.6 grams of alum per gal to turn the water crystal clear over night. Now I need to check the pH of the same sample. I started with an 8.7, so we will see how much the pH dropped by using the alum. I am treating for excess phosphates, not colloidal solids. Or at least I think that is why there is green cloudy water. I have still not been able to come up with an answer as to why the pond is cloudy. So, whatever is causing the problem of low visibility the Alum cleared it right up. I was impressed to say the least!

Anyone have an idea on the total amount of Alum needed based on 5.6 grams per gallon for a 3.12 acre 7 foot average depth pond? I just did the test and have not figured the amount of alum needed. And how much lime to use either. With the Ph starting at 8.7, would the treatment still require 1 sk. of hydrated lime for every 2 sks of Alum?

Brian, glad to hear the Tp are making babies

Okay, I got ahead of myself. The breading program will not happen until the breeding program is successful. You guys are so sharp. It was good for a laugh!

I retested with approximately 4 grams per gallon of pond water and the water cleared up quite a bit but not to crystal clear like it did with the 5.6 grams of Alum. I really don't want crystal clear except as Brian(Highflyer) and I discussed on the phone. It might be nice to see what all is really living in the pond.

The pond came up a good foot and a half this last rain and cleared up some. Another rain like this past one and the pond should flush through the syphon. I am retesting with Alum again using the pond water after this past rain event. Will test with 3 grams. And we have 60 to 100% chance of rain this weekend followed by a week of 60 to 80% chance of rain. Come on Rain!

Breaded Tp sounds pretty good right now. My last was some of the best tasting fish from the pond

Glad you got some rain Tracy. Like you I still have a bloom going on .still not much rain here ,lake down about 1-1/2'. Water clarity about 18" now. Lots of surface action after small fish that I'm guessing is bass after shad or shiners.

Starting to sound like to much bio-mass (fish/nutrients etc.) in to little water due to water loss (no rain) TGW.

Tracy, don't try being too specific when treating with Alum...your tests are in static, controlled conditions with water undisturbed...nothing at all like your pond....Figure 22 acre feet of water and 200 pounds Alum/100 pounds Hydrated lime per acre foot....4400 pounds alum, 2000 pounds Hydrated (since pH is a bit high) Lime....btw, I'd love an all expenses paid Texas winter trip

Rainman, Thank you sir! please explain a little more, are you saying 88 sks of alum for this 3 acre pond? I came up with 90 sks but a friend said 112 per acre foot. lost here in the translation Hay! the cost might get to where I might just let mother nature takes it's course and reduce some pond management here. Kinda of sucks

Eric, I think you might be right. Pond might be a large aquarium and the water needs to be diluted with fresh water. Would like to see another couple of good rains and flush the pond some.

90 sacks, (50 pound bags) would be 4500 pounds of Alum, and would work....I don't know what math your friend did, but that would be WAY too much alum per acre foot...I do a "standard" application at 200 lb per acre foot, a "heavy" treatment at 250 lb er acre foot, and "nuke" it at 300 lb per acre foot...I have only treated one pond that was loaded with colloidal Sodium Bentonite that required a heavier rate, 400 lb per acre foot to clear. The 200 pounds per acre foot should be great for you, and will bind all phosphorus present in the water column as well.

Remember, unless you KNOW your pH is high due to Calcium Carbonate, it may not buffer the alum well, so you should still use the Hydrated Lime at about 40-50% of the alum volume used...It is not so much the pH change that kills fish, but how FAST the pH changes ...

I suggested to Tracy that we take a sample of his water and do the alum experiment, but he did not provide a sample. So we are going off of his numbers here.

OK, lets determine exactly what 4 grams per gallon equates to in lbs per acre-ft.

4g/454 = .0088lbs

.0088lbs per gallon x 325829 (gallons/ac-ft ) = 2867lbs per ac-ft = 57 50# bags per ac-ft.

Laboratory and pond setting are different of course. Most importantly, in lab setting you are able to be precise and are able to mix 100% of the alum in a gallon sample. Also there is no physical disturbance to interfere. However in a pond setting, some product may settle to the bottom and not dissolve 100%, plus there is physical disturbance in the equation. So in order to achieve the same results that Tracy measured in his sample, he may need slightly more than the experiment suggested.

I do not have immediate access to my water quality records for Tracy, but his alkalinity is high and hardness is low, and there is a significant difference between those values. Tracy please fill in here with your water quality values if you like.

Here is an excerpt from SRAC Publication#4604, Managing High pH in Freshwater Ponds, Balance the hardness and alkalinity
Problems with high pH seem to occur
most often in ponds where total alkalin- ity (the amount of bicarbonate and car-
bonate in the water) far exceeds water hardness (the amount of calcium and magnesium in the water). For example, it is common for freshwater prawn ponds at the Mississippi State Uni- versity aquaculture unit in Starkville
to have high pH in late spring. The groundwater supply for these ponds has a hardness of about 30 mg/L as CaCO3 and an alkalinity of about 90 mg/L. An even wider disparity between hard- ness and alkalinity is found in many other waters, particularly those in the southeastern coastal plains where many groundwaters have alkalinities exceed- ing 150 mg/L and hardness values of less than 10 mg/L.
De ciencies in hardness relative to alkalinity can be corrected by adding gypsum (calcium sulfate). The effective- ness of gypsum treatment in reducing pH is subject to debate; at best, it is a preventive procedure rather than an emergency treatment. Hardness de - ciencies should, therefore, be corrected before stocking, preferably as soon as the pond is lled in the spring.
The amount of gypsum needed to roughly balance hardness and alkalinity can be calculated by subtracting hard- ness from alkalinity and multiplying that value by two. For example, if hard- ness is 30 mg/L as CaCO3 and alkalinity is 90 mg/L as CaCO3, then 120 mg/L
of gypsum will be needed. This would require about 2,500 pounds of gypsum in a 2-acre pond that is 4 feet deep. This is a large amount of gypsum, but the re- sults of treatment should be long-lasting because calcium is lost from ponds only when waters are diluted by excessive rainfall or by the addition of water with a low calcium content.
Increasing the calcium level in a pond by adding gypsum may help reduce
the occurrence of high pH and bene t animals by helping them respond bet- ter physiologically to pH extremes and other environmental stressors. Rela- tively high levels of calcium also help crustaceans, such as freshwater prawns, to replace calcium lost during molting.

Add alum or an
organic substance
It is dif cult to reduce pH signi cantly by adding an acid to the water because
pond waters are usually buffered by bases of the alkalinity system. Rela- tively large amounts of acid are there- fore needed to achieve a meaningful decrease in pH. Also, adding an acid
to water is only a short-term solution because it addresses the result rather than the cause of the problem, which is rapid plant growth.
An emergency treatment that quickly reduces high pH is the application of alum (aluminum sulfate). This is a safe, relatively inexpensive chemical that reacts in water to form an acid. Besides reducing pH, alum also occulates and removes algae by sedimentation, thus decreasing algal biomass and reducing photosynthesis. Alum may also help
to reduce pH indirectly by removing phosphorus—an important nutrient for plant growth.
Alum does not have a permanent effect and it may need to be applied more than once until plant or algal growth decreases. A precise reduction of pH through the addition of alum is dif- cult because response is in uenced by a number of conditions in the pond, especially the water’s total alkalinity. Overtreatment with alum can cause a dramatic decrease in pH, possibly to levels more dangerous than the original high pH problem.
Experience dictates a cautious ap- proach, starting with an initial dose of 10 mg/L alum (27 pounds of alum per acre-foot of water) followed by ad- ditional applications in 5- to 10-mg/L increments as needed. Alum should not be used in waters with total alkalinities of less than 20 mg/L as CaCO3 because even small amounts may reduce pH to dangerous levels.
A safer, longer lasting way to reduce high pH is to add carbon dioxide, which acts as an acid in water. Carbon dioxide levels can be increased by adding or- ganic matter such as cracked corn, soy- bean meal or cottonseed meal to ponds. As organic matter decays, it releases carbon dioxide. This method does not reduce pH immediately, but it is a safe and relatively dependable practice that yields results rather quickly. Generally, applying about 15 pounds per acre daily for about 1 week should prevent pH from rising to undesirable levels. This
amount would be in addition to any daily application of organic fertilizer already planned. The total daily applica- tion of organic matter should not exceed 50 pounds per acre. The decay process that releases carbon dioxide into the water also uses dissolved oxygen, so adding too much organic matter could reduce dissolved oxygen concentrations to dangerous levels. Dissolved oxygen concentrations must therefore be mea- sured regularly and the pond aerated,
if necessary, to maintain satisfactory oxygen levels.

If Tracy wants pond results to be exactly like those witnessed in the sample jar, then I contend that he will need to use the calculated amount of product. Suggesting that he could benefit from less product to lock up phosphorous may be valid, but is not based on his experimental testing.

Personally we have experienced the same problem of high pH, low visibility, and super-dense plankton blooms, due to the high alkalinity/ low hardness phenomenon.

Last season I used 600-700lbs of alum per acre -ft in one pond (alkalinity 200ppm) to bring down pH from 10 to 7-8 range. Visibility improved only slightly, and due to high alkalinity, ZERO hydrated lime was needed.

Again, in another pond, we used 300-400lbs alum per acre-ft to bring down pH, also with ZERO hydrated lime.

The decision to use or not to use hydrated lime should be made by testing pH during the alum application process. Using hydrated lime blindly without testing pH during application may result in no significant pH drop.

I want to be clear that I am not recommending that Tracy apply 2867lbs alum per acre-ft. I am suggesting that he would need this amount to match his experimental testing results. This data may suggest that alum application is not feasible.

If the decision is made to apply 200-300lbs alum per acre ft, I would think that the specific goals of this alum application would need to be laid out in specific terms.

How much would visibility be expected to improve? How low will this drop the pH? Will hydrated lime need to be used? If so, how much. Maybe the average pond requires 200-400lbs per acre-ft, but what if Tracy's pond is an exception, due to exceptional water quality parameters?

I agree with the math, Todd.

Tracy can you tell us what your alkalinity, total hardness, and visibility are?

Todd, here u go from recent LSU water test.
Alk - 180.56 LSU put it in the medium range
Hardness - 46.76 LSU had no range here (high or low)
Visibility 9 to 10" of a cloudy light green water, it's more of a milky cloudy than green.

ewest, using only my input of information available to him, commented low vis could be due to drought conditions, high fish count and feeding. I could agree with that. I've been in a drought at my place for the past two years with no flush of pond water.

My recent research here at this forum (in the muddy water forum list), I found reported by Northband on 7/26/17 titled Cloudy water, aeration and enzymes. He experienced cloudy water due to excess bacterial growth after adding a bacteria, enzyme and dye product. I added a similar product Last Oct. I also found in aquariums where water was cloudy sometimes it was due to excess bacteria blooms. It is possible I am having a bacterial bloom I think.

I also just added this week 3 tons of Gypsum to the pond to increase the calcium content in the water. I did not add it to clear the water because I new it would take much more gyp than the 3 tons I planned to add.

One more thing, it really sucks having the water color and clarity I have. especially if I caused it by adding the bacteria.

Has Bill looked at the water? If suspended dirt/clay has been ruled out then it is likely chemical (imbalance) or biological (plankton/bacteria etc.)or a combination of both and either could be the cause or effect.

Eric, Bill sent me the information on how too and I have the water sample prepared as he suggested, I just need to drop it off in the mail. I just need to get into town to the post office.

I bet you will be surprised by the results unless Bill has already given you his opinion.

Did you get more rain. I am guessing things will fix themselves once you get enough rain due to what you have already added.

A little rain but not any measurable rain at one time since the good rain event a few days back. Looks like we may have 100% chance of rain each day for the next week but we shall see. Another good rain event would help a lot. In a normal year here, we would see the local rivers be out of the banks this time of year. And we are not seeing that so far. And I dropped the sample in the mail to Bill Cody yesterday along with a note to what I am seeing. I am very interested in seeing Bill Cody's results.

While doing some Alum treatment experimentation, I saw a small amount of Alum would drop out the plankton(green stuff) to the bottom of the gallon container, but the sample would remain a light cloud colored cloudy water with low visibility. The low visibility is coming from the cloudy water and not the plankton bloom. And after adding additional alum then the cloudy water would turn crystal clear.

I also reported here the pH was an 8.73 but it is a 8.37. My mistake. I want the water to have better visibility and may wait and see, but I may add the alum and leaning that way, so we'll see how the water does if we get some more rain. The recent rain event made little to no change in visibility.

Have you read this in light of your test results ?

https://srac.tamu.edu/serveFactSheet/108

Thanks Eric for the tamu fact sheet. The chart for Alum pounds per acre is pretty useful. If the chart is correct, and I believe it is, it might take less Alum than using the ( grams per gallon of water) test have shown.

I am now using a five gallon bucket test at the pond and adding a qtr tsp of Alum to the sample. I think I can get the weight of the tsp sample for treatment of the pond.

The first test with the bucket I added 3/4 tsp and the water had cleared up when I checked it the next day. The pH was tested and there was a drop in the pH from the strips it looked to be in the 6.5 to 7 range. Hard to tell exactly using strips.

I am now testing using 1/2 tsp and will ck on bucket test today.

Hey Tracy I was curious if your pond conditions have changed after all the recent rain? How much rain did you receive, and how much did pond level rise? What happened to visibility and color?

+1 I'm also curious. Also, have you received any feedback from Bill C. on the sample you sent him?

Sorry guys if I left you hanging with no follow up report on my part. So right now the pond has come up around 3' from the rains and the water visibility remains at or around 11" of a light green with colloidal clays suspected from the rains. But the low visibility could be coming from detritus that was or is stirred from the bottom of the pond. So right now it is a wait and see if things will settle out. I am figuring I got around a 30% dilution of the pond water. It lacked about a half inch from rising enough to go through the syphon. My syphon pulls from about 6' water depths and that is due to the ponds bottom design. It does not pull from the 12 water depth, the deepest part of the pond.

Bill Cody ran a test for me and provided some information for me to think about. It was determined that a lot of the low water clarity came from Detritus that was or had been stirred from the ponds bottom. Bill C. and I discussed what might be disturbing the ponds bottom and I don't see anything in the pond that could do that. No bullheads, no catfish, and no carp or goldfish. There are a few crawfish around but with the lmb in the pond that pretty much eliminates any possibility of excess crawfish in the pond. But, if I understood all of it, there was a possibility that really small microorganisms are hard to distinguish from detritus. And I find it too coincidental that shortly after adding a biological treatment to the pond the water visibility reduced to 9 or 10" of a light colored cloudy water. But there is one more possibility. I think it could be the diffusers stirring up the bottom in a pond that had reduced amount of water in it due to drought. So, starting soon I will restart the aeration and I am going to reduce the hrs diffusers will be run. I am going to run them no more than 12 hrs per day instead of 24/7. And I am going to run them only at night. Hopefully, to reduce the hot water I saw this past summer. Mr's Lusk's Wednesday evenings facebook program lead me to this change from what I have been doing with the diffusers.

After all this with the frustration experienced, if I don't get back to where the water used to be I might just pull my hair out and say screw it.

Al, why are u using the gypsum? And how often are you adding it to the pond? I am using it to increase my calcium which was really low. My hardness was ok but I would feel better about a higher ppm of calcium to assist in growing the lmb. Hay, if it helps to clear up some of my water that would be nice too.

OOPs, sorry Al I went back here and found out why u r adding the gyp.

Isn't Ag Lime cheaper than the Gypsum there?.

Baking soda is Sodium bicarbonate and does not contain calcium. It will increase alkalinity, but it will not increase hardness.

Thanks Al, I needed that. I have never rolled over and played dead so not likely to do it now. lol .

Tom and I didn't think you would. Sometimes we just need to step back, clear our minds, re-access, and then head back at it. I've had to do that several times when the amount of time, money, and effort just didn't seem to be showing the results I thought it should.

The prize you're chasing will be worth your efforts.

Take time to enjoy the journey. The journey is not all roses but through the effort the roses become appreciated.

I never thought I would be looking for a support group (other than church). thank goodness you guys are here.

Has anyone tried to put a water pump in a boat and pump surface water down into the muck at the pond bottom to try to get oxygen into the muck. And also get an algae bloom going.

I stand corrected...my bad....Thanks!!! (I was tired! lol)

I have a question, so maybe someone has an answer. On Bob's Wednesday face book program, he said he wanted a fertile pond in the spring and I understand that. But then he said he preferred a pond with clear water in the summer. And that is something I have never seen at my place. I will usually get a dense Bloom in June and water clarity may even go to 12". So how does one go from 18 to 24" of green water to clear water in early summer? The only way I can get there is to use an algaecide "I'm guessing". Is Bob recommending an algaecide be used to clear up the water? Adding it before our water temps come up(usually in early June)? And from past conversations with others here, One has to be extremely careful when adding an algaecide to kill of plankton? Wright? Should I be doing this at my place where I fight a couple of dense blooms early and late summer? What if I do it early, would that maybe eliminate me doing it again for that second dense bloom I see each summer and fall? And what product would I use, I don't want to kill off my new to pond American pondweed.

Maybe Bob will talk about this next Wednesday's Face book program. I really like his face book program.

Thanks

Clear water can have a lot of meanings !

It is not uncommon for a fertile pond to have a strong spring/early summer bloom with it diminishing (or going from green to brownish) over the summer as forms of plankton change due to productivity and predation. If you are fertilizing that is when you add small amounts of additional fertilizer to try and keep 18 to 24 inches of visibility.

I do not believe in whip-sawing different treatments and approaches as that often has very negative consequences that can not be anticipated or controlled. Here I add an old Bruce Condello admonition - it only takes about 15 minutes of mistake (low O2) to do a lot of damage.

Thanks Eric, I hear ya Thanks again, I need some plants to help reduce my excess nutrients. I think that would help to clear up the water some.