3 acre middle georgia pond. 3-8ft deep. Not much cover, weeds but not run over. We weighed & measured 26 bass between 9-15" in 2 evenings of fishing. Caught 2 less than 9 and 2 right at 15". The RW range is from the mid 50's to mid 60's. One 15 incher weighed 1.1 and the other 15 oz!!! Visibly "skinny" once they reached 11". Have not intentionally fished for bream, but caught a few in the 6-8" range on a flyrod. I have seen very few bream/minnows along the shore. Also, there are numerous CC. We hand feed pellets and see almost nothing but 16-18" CC. Based on what I've read on here, I was thinking of culling 90-120 bass (15-20# per acre) 15" or less, removing as many cats as poosible, then stocking 250 bluegill per acre and plant some brush piles. We just want some quality bass with the chance of a 8+ pounder in the future. Am I even close?? If so, when should we stock the bream?

Hi there! Welcome to Pond Boss. It sounds like you have a bass stunted pond. Is a total fish kill something you'd consider?

No, don't want to do a fish kill right now.

Welcome to the Forum!

Consider getting the services of Greg Grimes with Lakeworks, based out of Ball Ground GA.

The CC are likely competing directly with the LMB. Adding brush MAY give the CC spawning habitat.

I'd try removing 50-75# of LMB in the 10"-16" range, as well as any other length that's obviously skinny, along with all the CC that can be caught.

If your CC show up for feed, Stubby Steve's Pellet Lures could get you a bunch in a hurry.

The 250 BG per acre sounds good, if over 6"....consider Coppernose BG. Also Threadfin Shad and Golden Shiners would be good additions for bigger LMB in your area. With weedy areas, the shiners would have a good chance of getting established.

You have a very typical bass heavy/forage light pond. The predators, including larger BG, are starving.

Start culling bass and never stop until they hit all hit 90%+. Although it works well on public lakes, Catch and Release plus too small to keep ruins Southern ponds.

The BG might be a good idea if, like Rex says, they are all 6+ inches. You would need a lot more than 250. But, without your help, the offspring will be eaten immediately. When you get to this point, more groceries won't solve the problem.

BTW, I'll bet the cats are also starving. Get rid of them if you can. They are also part of the problem.

If we get 50-75# of bass and as many cc as possible out by winter (November), should we stock the bluegill(750) then, or wait til late winter/early spring (february)? we wouldn't put any brush in until the cull numbers have been reached.

If you want to stock the adult Gills, I'd go ahead and get them ion asap to gain a spawn or three....If not stocking now, Fall would still give the new adult gills time to acclimate to the new surroundings and claim bedding spots for next spring.

Just remember that LMB will eat BG slightly larger than 1/3 their length (especially when they are hungry), so the size of the BG at stocking can be determined by what size (length) LMB you are catching in your pond.

so how do you stock 3-5 inch bluegill when you are loaded with 9-15 inch bass? I'm not sure if we can get 6"+ bluegill. Again, I don't plan to put the BG in until we harvest at least 50# of bass which should equate to roughly 90-100 individuals. Preferably more, but at least this many, and as many cc as we can.

You can't do it effectively. 3-5 inch BG are what we call a quick snack. This fix takes time, work, and or $$$$. You can find 6 inch BG but I wouldn't like the cost.

Keep fishing until you think you are running out of bass. When they quit hitting artificials use live bait to catch them. Then stock what you think are way too many bluegills.

How is your water clarity? I have learned that water clarity has one of the biggest impacts on a pond. If very clear it wont matter what you add or stock for bait fish or minnows. Adding cover is good but good healthy water much better.

Yeah it shouldn't take much to catch them bass or cc if they are all starving!! I would get your BG as big as possible you may lose some of the 3 inchers but maybe a good amount of the 4 to 5 inch should make it. Specially after you cull a bunch of LMB and CC.

Everyone always asks me here why I don't have CC in my pond... Well this is exactly why! They will eat any and everything! The bigger they get the worse they are!!

Now don't get me wrong if your main goal was nice CC then great but if not it's just not worth the trouble.

RC

P.S.
Do you have a place you could go BG fishing and catch you some decent ones. Maybe place in a holding tank for a few days and then release into your pond. That isn't always the best practice but at this point your winging it anyway.... It may allow you to get some 6+ inchers that way and any larger BG right now will help that's for sure!

This is a place where a small forage pond that is overloaded with BG would be an asset. Know of any local ponds or friends with ponds that could be candidates? Lower water and seine for tubs full.

I've built a couple small ponds that have the specific purpose of growing forage fish and increasing numbers of specific fish (RES to be specific).

Yeah snrub your right man! Perfect example! I wish I had even a 20x20 for bait fish and baby blues.... and res that would be cool and very effective!!

RC

took out 12 2 1/2-3 lbs channel cats the other afternoon. they didn't look nearly as scrawny as the bass I've caught. Most were 16-20 inches. They bit good for about an hour, then I think they figured it out. Just turned off like a light switch. Gonna take a while to get em out, ha!

Yeah the don't' look as bad cause they are eating everything in your pond!! Fry em up man fry em up!!

RC

I am unclear on something....I am in the process of thinning out the ranks of 11-14 inch overcrowded LMB in one of our fishing ponds. I want to also harvest BG...should I leave all BG larger than 7 inches or so in the pond or are those the ones I need to harvest? Most BG I catch in this pond are 8 inches plus.....this is the classic stunted bass/large Bluegill problem so common in smaller bodies of water. I have been reading a lot but can't get a straight answer....what size BG do i need to harvest?

I wouldn't harvest any of the BG. Just the bass.

+1 on that! Let em breed!! Keep smaller bass and watch your other bass grow, grow, grow!

RC

Harvest 0 BG. The reason why the LMB are stunted is because they didn't get enough to eat. Why remove their food, either directly, or indirectly by removing the breeding stock?

If your goal is to the LMB larger, leave all the BG in and only remove the LMB.

Thanks for the info guys. Two more questions....what about the "maintenance" harvesting of BG in this LMB stunted pond? Should I get the LMB population better balanced before doing the normal annual maintenance harvesting of BG? If I was to do some normal harvesting what size BG would be best to take out? Thanks again for the advice.

If LMB growth is the objective, and things are working well together, then maintenance harvesting of BG might not ever need to occur. A lot depends on location, and goals.

If you desire to harvest bluegills, realize that in a small BOW such harvest may impact your LMB growth. This is why the forum often speaks in terms of balance, and also why such balance can be fleeting and require near constant tweaking to try and maintain.

If the situation is such that BG harvest is desired and acceptable, then I would probably attempt to establish what the top end size class of your BG currently is running at, and harvest a size or two below that. if you can harvest females, so much the better.

Good advice by many on this thread. The question is what is your goal ? If you want lots of small LMB to catch and a few big BG to catch and release then that is one option. If you want big LMB then that is a different option. If you want balance then that is also a different option.

From a prior thread

Not many ponds are self-sustaining without intervention in a manner that meets the pond owner's goals. Most studies on pond balance relate that ponds in balance are temporarily poised in an unstable state between unwanted alternative stable states:

Cutting Edge article in the Nov/Dec issue of Pond Boss Vol. XVIII, No. 3 on the difficulty of achieving and maintaining a desired balanced state while teetering on a knife’s edge between two undesirable steady states, being overpopulation of predators with low predator body condition (LMB crowded) vs. overpopulation of prey with low predator recruitment (BG crowded).

bass,

I'll use myself for an example. I had to do exactly what you are doing when I first got my pond. I had all kinds of 4 inch GSF and 11 inch bass. no BG at all or RES. My bass were starving.
My pond is 1 acre.

In 2009 I caught as many GSF and LMB as I could and kept them cause I knew they were pretty much done anyway. That was summer of 09. In fall of 09 I was lucky enough to get my hands on 75 6 inch CNBG and 50 5 to 6 inch RES. I let them go. I also put in 10 pounds of shiners in the 3 to 4 inch range. I new I had some bass left but new they would not be able to eat my CNBG or my RES at the size they were. I continued to catch a few lmb that fall and kept them. All BG and RES went back.

I put in a bunch of habitat for the BG and RES and shiners to hide in as they grew. Then summer / fall of 2010 I put in new bass that were about 8 to 10 inches. I only put in like 15 total casue they were already decent size. Plus I knew I still had a few older ones left.

I added 50 Regular BG in the 4 inch range that fall also. I think most of them made it.

Ok now 2015 My bass keep my BG in check for me. I have anywhere from baby to 11 inch BG I have never harvested to keep them in check if you will. I let my bass do that.

I have harvested like 3 times in 5 years about 6 BG each time for the grill. I only kept ones in the 6 to 8 inch range first time second time 6 to 8.5 and 3rd time I kept any 9 inch and under but that was the first time in 5 years and I only kept 6 of them. Like others said above you don't want to keep your big BG if you keep any try to keep the next class down. I went by inches. I try to stay 1.5 to 2 inches below my biggest gills. I know I have a lot of 10 inch now so that's why I like to stay in the 8 to 9 inch range.

I now have up to 4 pound bass and new 8 inch bass uggh... I need to harvest or they will start eating everything! It's like Eric said the perfect balance lasts about as long as it takes to read this whole message I just typed up. Then BANG your back at fixing it again!

That is the fun it IMO!!
RC