Pond Boss
Posted By: airborne3118 Tilapia for algae control. - 12/02/11 01:04 AM
Got a question here for a man I think his name is ( Rainman ). How many tilapia do I need to wipe out a heavy algae problem in a 8/10 acre pond? What size must tilapia be to avoid predation. I have a friend who is raising and breeding some blue tilapia and he has 100's of babys to give me. I have a 600 gallon pond that I thought I could raise some up in if you think it is feasible. The pond I would be putting them in has a heavy population of green sunfish and a decent population of bluegill and bass. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
Posted By: esshup Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 12/02/11 01:52 AM
Just to tide you over 'till Rex chimes in here. I stocked 36# of 6"-8" long Tilapia in a pond that was the same size as yours. They spawned multiple times and had lots of babies. There was absolutely no algae growing in the pond all year, and visibility was averaging 16"-18". I had to treat the stream that was formed by taking water from the pond and recirculating it for algae growth roughly every 5 weeks. So, I know something had to be keeping the FA in check in the pond.

There was minimal predation in the pond, so I have no idea how many Tilapia were in the pond at the end of summer.
Posted By: airborne3118 Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 12/02/11 02:22 AM
I was worried about the predation because I dont know if I can raise them in my 600 gallon stock tank to a big enough size before I release them without having water quality issues. If I only had to raise them to say 4-6 inches, I might be alright.
Posted By: Brad Vollmar Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 12/02/11 03:29 AM
I stocked them in a customers pond at a rate of 30# per acre. The pond was very shallow (8-9ft max) and crystal clear. We had very little algae all year, so the little the customer didn't complain. We stocked a 4-8" mix in early spring and the customer recently caught a 22" tilapia.
Posted By: snide Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 12/02/11 05:10 AM
Sorry not been around a while....I was getting ready to post about the Tilapia Rex put in our pond....THEY DID AWESOME!! Back in April we put in 40 pounds in a two acre pond and I have ended up with about 1000-1500 pounds (guessing) they for sure HAMMERED all the algae!! I'm getting them again next year FOR SURE!!! It seems like they reeled my old pond back 10 years!!

Water temp today was around 47, I have been walking the banks just netting them as the come up towards the bank, we netted 60 "two plus" pounders yesterday...Best eating fish I have ever had, big white fillets, better than bluegill which was my favorite till now...Can't say enough!!

Airborne, I'm also in Ripley County Indiana (around Milan)
Posted By: airborne3118 Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 12/03/11 04:16 PM
Is that the best way to harvest them at the end of the year. I had heard you could just scoop them up but wasnt for sure that would work. Is this about the time of year that they start to die off. I am really hoping to collect a couple hundred pounds of them at the end of next season.
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 12/03/11 07:35 PM
Scooping up temperature stressed tilapia is a lot easier said than done. It can work but several conditions have to all align up together for it it be easy; the right time and the right place sort of thing. Plus a significiant percentage sink when they are dying or are dead.
Posted By: Rainman Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 12/08/11 09:41 PM
Airborne....40 pounds per acre has worked very well in you climate.

We used less on Snides pond because it got deep fairly quickly and algae growth, while heavy, was limited as to the bottom area involved. Had his pond been more shallow, 80 pounds would have been needed for good control.
Posted By: snide Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 12/10/11 02:19 AM
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Scooping up temperature stressed tilapia is a lot easier said than done. It can work but several conditions have to all align up together for it it be easy; the right time and the right place sort of thing. Plus a significiant percentage sink when they are dying or are dead.


I agree Bill, some had more spunk that others and swam off still fairly quick. Netting was pretty easily done to the "more sluggish" ones. What I've found out since is that they vanish quickly? I dunno where they go? For instance: A few weeks ago we had a warmer calm, sunny 60 degree weekend. We visually observed 200 or more around the perimeter of the pond near the banks, we walked around netting the sluggish ones and the ones that swam off we figured we get the next day, well the numbers have dwindled fast it went from seeing a bunch of them in a day or two to less and less everyday now they are just gone...Not seeing any dead ones no floaters nothing? It's been down in the low 30's high 20's for the last week or so, should I suspect they are gone????
Posted By: esshup Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 12/10/11 05:14 AM
Bottom of the pond, unless the clean up crew was busy. Not enough temperature (i.e. heat) to generate decomp. gasses that make them float.
Posted By: airborne3118 Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 12/11/11 12:48 AM
OK thanks. How big do they need to be to avoid predation. Just an example, if I release 3-4 inch fish, will they most likely make it to reproduce or am I better off with 6-8 inch fish.
Posted By: esshup Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 12/11/11 03:50 AM
Bigger is definately better. How big are the LMB in the pond?
Posted By: airborne3118 Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 12/11/11 04:27 AM
The pond has a mix of fish and sizes in it. We stocked it 10 years ago before I joined the military and it was an awesome little fishing hole for several years. Then the problems started to evolve. The farmer raises lots of hogs and spreads his manure in surrounding fields and some of it runs off into the pond. He has started keeping a buffer zone of about 40 yards of grass around the pond but in the spring it just rains to much to be controled. Then a couple years ago he said there was a big turn over when we had a dry hot summer and he thought it killed all the fish. Last year I started working on the pond by dragging the FA out with my boat and I started fishing it to see what was left in it. I caught hundreds of green sunfish and pitched them out and to my surprise I caught a few nice bass and some small ones. I transfered 15 10-14inch bass from another pond and about 100 bluegill also. I talked to him about buying Tilapia from you, but he doesnt really want to put any money into the pond. He basically gave me the rights to do what ever I want with the pond. So I have a friend who is in the hobby of breeding a few fish to sell and he started a small aquaponics set up and had 100's of baby blue tilapia. I got 14 from him and have them in a 55 gallon tank right now. My plan was to breed them over the winter and release them in the spring. My problem is if I can keep water quality good enough to get them big enough to make it until spring. I have a 300 gallon tank that I could keep them in but I still dont know if that will hold enough and raise them big enough that they wont just be bass bait when I release them. My ultimate goal is to release them, have them eat most of the FA, then the green sunfish will be vulnerable to the bass, then fall comes and I can scoop up as many as I can find and fry em up. Let me know what you think of this plan and thanks for the help. Ive heard nothing but good stuff about you.
Posted By: esshup Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 12/11/11 05:13 PM
Thanks airborne. I'd stock at least 6" ones, that way there'd be less chance for predation. The LMB would have to be about 18" to eat a 6" Tilapia.
Posted By: spinnerbait Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 01/21/12 12:00 AM
Does anyone know if there is any place in NC or surrounding areas to buy tilapia?
Posted By: Cecil Baird1 Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 01/21/12 01:31 AM
Originally Posted By: spinnerbait
Does anyone know if there is any place in NC or surrounding areas to buy tilapia?


CJBS2003 will know. He's from Virginia. He usually comes on here much later due to his shift work. Either that or P.M. him.
Posted By: docg Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 01/21/12 01:51 AM
Kevin Patterson of southeast pond stocking has them but you need a permit
www.seponds.com
Posted By: spinnerbait Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 01/21/12 11:08 PM
Doc,
NCWRC website says no permit needed when stocking private ponds. Am I not seeing something?
Also what would be a stocking rate for a 1 acre pond with adult tilapia, that the bg/bass population is 18 months old? Bass are at the 12-14 inch range.
Thanks for the input.
Posted By: docg Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 01/21/12 11:58 PM
Kevin told me I had to have someone come out and look at the pond. I'm thinking a game warden. You could call and ask him. He can also give you stocking recommendations. He's a good guy. I get my tilapia from him. As you can tell the permit thing is a bit confusing.
Posted By: spinnerbait Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 01/22/12 12:20 AM
Thanks for the input. How are your fish doing? Are you using them for forage?
Posted By: esshup Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 01/22/12 02:28 AM
My experience with the Blue Tilapia is that 17# won't control algae in a 1 ac pond, but when stocked at the rate of 40# per acre, they will. I haven't tried any numbers between those 2.

I'd be looking at stocking fish that were 5" and larger to keep your LMB from eating the stockers.
Posted By: docg Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 01/22/12 03:46 AM
They love to eat pellets and usually die out about middle of December. I use them just for forage. I don't have an algae issue. Usually filet out about 10 per year
Posted By: spinnerbait Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 01/22/12 04:12 AM
Are you getting a permit each time you purchase them in the spring? I was hoping they might survive the winter, but I'm only a hour from you west of WS. Same weather here, although this year hasn't been to bad yet. When do you start your spring stocking?
Posted By: docg Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 01/22/12 03:51 PM
They will not live through the winter. We get about 10 out per year to fillet. About purchasing them each year without a permit........I don't know what you're talking about. Wink wink
Posted By: spinnerbait Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 01/22/12 04:39 PM
Thanks for the info. Doc. I found a guy in Asheville that will sale me 20 - 5 inch fish for $40 bucks. I have to pick them up, but thats Ok. I have made a transport tank out of a 55 gallon plastic drum. Mainly for shad, but will work great for this.
Posted By: esshup Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 01/22/12 04:39 PM
How long they live all depends on the species of Tilapia and the water temperature. Blue Tilapia are the most cold hardy, and lethal temp is 45°F, but some will die at higher temps due to fungal infection, etc. I figure they are done for when the water gets into the lower 50's.
Posted By: spinnerbait Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 01/22/12 05:05 PM
Great info. thanks. I am learning more everyday from this site. I am wanting to try the tilapia stock this year for additional forage. Have a guy wanting to sale me some, but I don't think they will survive yet.
Posted By: esshup Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 01/22/12 06:30 PM
From what I've heard, if they aren't pure Blue Tilapia, then their water temp tolerance is 65°F., and I'd use a minimum of 70°F for all the other strains of Tilapia.

Rainman or Weissguy, get on in here!! (they both raise/sell Tilapia)
Posted By: RC51 Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 01/23/12 07:13 PM
So if you don't see a lot of these TP because they sink to the bottom when they die is that ok for your pond??? I mean lets take for example I think it was ESSHUP that said 40# per acre seems to do the trick. Lets say they are all a half a pound. So that's 80 fish. Most of those won't get ate because they are pretty big already. So lets say you catch 10 a few get ate say 10. So you have 60 large 1 to 2 pound fish that are going to die and sink to the bottom of your pond? Is that ok? What does that do to my pond if anything? Will smaller fish eat on them once they sink?
Posted By: esshup Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 01/23/12 07:37 PM
I don't know about smaller fish eating them, but turtles and crayfish will clean some up, some WILL float, and would be scavenged by birds or 4-legged critters. Yes, the others will decompose and contribute to the nutrient load, but I haven't seen it to cause any problems (yet - this will be my 4th year of playing with them).
Posted By: RC51 Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 01/23/12 08:33 PM
So that begs the question also will you be attracting unwanted critters to your pond then? Esshup if you get 40 pounds worth about how many TP is that give or take a few?

thanks,
Posted By: esshup Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 01/23/12 11:36 PM
Originally Posted By: RC51
So that begs the question also will you be attracting unwanted critters to your pond then? Esshup if you get 40 pounds worth about how many TP is that give or take a few?

thanks,


Nah, the critters are there already wandering around. They just stay a wee bit longer to have a bite to eat.

40#'s of Tilapia could be 20 fish or over 200 fish, depending on the size of the fish delivered. I try to pick the size that won't become dinner to the LMB in the pond. They might weigh a bit more than a BG for the same sized (inch wise) fish, so you could get a rough idea by looking at the Relative Weight chart in the archives.

Rex, you out there?? HELP!!! wink
Posted By: spinnerbait Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 01/30/12 12:45 AM
Doc,
How many years have you used tilapia? I am curious if your getting the results you want? I want something to make my bass fat! I have thought about adding some threadfins too.
Posted By: esshup Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 01/30/12 02:42 AM
Originally Posted By: RC51
So that begs the question also will you be attracting unwanted critters to your pond then? Esshup if you get 40 pounds worth about how many TP is that give or take a few?

thanks,


That's hard to say. I've gotten Tilapia that were about a pound apiece, down to about 6 oz. all in the same load.




IIRC there were either 12# or 15# in that cooler.
Posted By: Rainman Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 01/31/12 06:29 AM
I do not grade fish for pond stocking, yet try to keep the vast majority of fish in the 1/3 pound or 8-9" range. No grading as small fish are sacrificial and take pressure off the larger tilapia to acclimate to the new surroundings (sacrificial stockers will be less than 2 pounds per 40#).

Any fish not directly eaten by predator fish when lethargic will sink or float and be completely consumed by scavenging...turtles, BG, CC, Fox, opossum, raccoon, etc.

If all 40# stocked were at the 1/3 pound size, or 120 fish, nearly all stockers would top 2 pounds at season end...roughly 240 pounds of tilapia...the first spawn surviving could easily add another 1000 pounds of tilapia too large to be consumed alive. We have not found evidence of dead tilapia on pond bottoms or even seen many floaters...I may not be able to say what, yet, but something sure eats a lot!
Posted By: Leo Nguyen Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 02/01/12 01:34 AM
Just be aware of how large your pond is, in ratio to the amount of biological degradation from the tilapia. You not only have to worry about nutrient loading, but also the biological oxygen demand caused by the decomposing matter. Two things come to mind: bacterial infestation during decomposing processes and biological oxygen consumption which will increase algae blooms during early spring. Just go by the rule of thumb of 10 cubic meter for every tilapia dead in your pond.
Posted By: spinnerbait Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 02/01/12 01:44 AM
Leo,
Could one safely assume 20-40 fish to stock per acre? They die off every winter here in NC. So I would restock each year.
Posted By: esshup Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 02/01/12 02:16 AM
Leo, does water temp factor into that equasion? The tilapia are going belly up around 50°F and below.
Posted By: Brad Vollmar Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 02/01/12 03:19 AM
As for floaters........We usually stock a 6-8" mix and they make it until mid December. I have never seen large floaters, but do on occasion see 2-3" fingerlings.
Posted By: Leo Nguyen Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 02/03/12 06:53 AM
Originally Posted By: spinnerbait
Leo,
Could one safely assume 20-40 fish to stock per acre? They die off every winter here in NC. So I would restock each year.


Sorry guys. Notification was a bit late. Per acre, safest margin would be 20 to 25 (1 to 1.5lbs). 30 is considered as a the marginal limit. Any more than 30, well, you might be asking for trouble.
Posted By: Leo Nguyen Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 02/03/12 06:54 AM
Originally Posted By: esshup
Leo, does water temp factor into that equasion? The tilapia are going belly up around 50°F and below.


Yes, water temp play a massive equation in tilapia. As you mentioned, anything at 50°F, or rather starting at 55°F if you're in warmer climate (Texas, Arizona, California), they belly up a bit sooner.
Posted By: Leo Nguyen Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 02/03/12 06:59 AM
Originally Posted By: Brad Vollmar
As for floaters........We usually stock a 6-8" mix and they make it until mid December. I have never seen large floaters, but do on occasion see 2-3" fingerlings.


You are truly smacked on with the stocking method and size. Smaller fish will consume quickly when they sense temperature zone offset based on their survival mode. They will feed hard and grow fast to survive the cold days with more insulated muscle tissues. However, all that's in vain when they are stocked in frigid climates. However, there is a way to maintain their survival passively even in the dead of winter, when there's a bit of sunlight available. An underground aquatic area where the solar heating panel can warm up an area for the fishes to stay warm. Ever notice how the fishes hug the bottom during cold seasons in the deepest areas, or areas where structures tapped into the very depth of the earth? Every little source of heat help, and fishes are great detector of temperature changes.
Posted By: Rainman Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 02/04/12 09:34 PM
Leo, thanks for joining in.

ANY tilapia will be losing it's disease resistance in 55 degree waters and is unlikely to survive a winter, plus the fact the stockings here are all in predator filled ponds so a death to at least an infection will be near certain.

Depending on a pond owners goal, there is really no upper limit to stocking tilapia, especially when using them to grow large Bass.

It is also not wise to stock tilapia in a pond as full grown adults or in "graded" sizes as you will be more likely to get fish of all one sex and the goals in stocking will never be met.

Stocking a wide mix of sizes anywhere from 2-12" is by far the wisest way to stock...This ensures a mixed sex stocked.

Only a PURE strain of Blue Tilapia can be safely initially in water temps of 62 degrees..ANY other hybrid or species can not be stocked safely till water temps reach 70 degrees or the stockers will be lethargic, and easily preyed upon.
Posted By: Rainman Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 02/04/12 09:39 PM
Originally Posted By: Leo Nguyen
Just be aware of how large your pond is, in ratio to the amount of biological degradation from the tilapia. You not only have to worry about nutrient loading, but also the biological oxygen demand caused by the decomposing matter. Two things come to mind: bacterial infestation during decomposing processes and biological oxygen consumption which will increase algae blooms during early spring. Just go by the rule of thumb of 10 cubic meter for every tilapia dead in your pond.


Leo, if this were in a non-predator, food production pond, biological oxygen demand would be a concern. In a sportfish pond however, stocking rates of over 100 pounds of adult tilapia per acre will be kept in the food chain by being eaten before death, or shortly after. There simply is no decay factor for a pond owner to be concerned with by adding tilapia, or the death of tilapia.
Posted By: Leo Nguyen Re: Tilapia for algae control. - 02/04/12 10:16 PM
Thanks for the update Rainman. The posts only ask for tilapia in controlling the algae. I wasn't certain that the pond owner was stocking them for both predation feeding and algae control. Looks like you're the go to person for the predation stocking.
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