I have about 3 inches of visibility in my pond, there is probably enought suspended clay to model GM's protoypes for the next ten years. I am in dire need of a predator and would like to know what role, if any, the turbidity plays in the numbers stocked. I have abundant forage, tilapia, and I feed once a day. I have a poacher and at least one small heron, they will account for about 40% mortality based on past experience. The predators are 1 3/4", can't find larger, thats a Theo logical story.

Rad :

This post will probably not help much but may lead to you an idea or two.

If your pond's water is typical of the waters in your area of the world then think about the predators that thrive in local conditions like yours. If your fish population is very different than local waters then adjust the size and stocking rate.

The only predators that I know do well in muddy water are catfish. Sight feeders generaly do not do as well in muddy water. I know you have several catfish types in your area. I would think that those that inhabit lowland muddy static rivers and swamps might work.

I hope this helps but it is not .02 cents worth but maybe a tenth of a cents worth. ewest

Rad,

Have you considered a few peacock bass? Probably only need four or five and if you could get single sex might be preferable. Don mentioned that he had them in his pond...they are a hoot to catch....don't know if they have any bad characteristics.

ewest and ML,
Thanks for the replies, I have a predator in mind, barramundi, what I was wondering was, would the turbidity change the stocking ratio.

Rad,

Ah, barramundi, I've read about them. My guess is you want to stock very few to start with regardless of the turbidity. Stock a couple and watch what happens...if you like the results, maybe add another couple of them...go slow, would be my advice. Find a balance before overstocking, instead of trying to correct after overstocking....sure you don't want a peacock bass?

Rad :

I thought they were an Aussie fish, Do you have them also? If they are a primary sight feeder then turbity will effect how many to stock. I agree with ML and would go very slow until you know more. I would try 1 only . I would not want any chance of reproduction until I knew more. I bet you have checked on them already . ewest

ewest and ML,
Thanks I will start slow. The fish is native in the Indian ocean and found in brackish waters and are not supposed to breed in brackish waters, also they are slow to mature yet grow rapidly? I have seen references to it being caught along the coast in Malaysia and Thailand where the water clarity in the mangroves and at the mouths of rivers is poor. I am hoping that their ability to hunt in that type of environment will help me. ML, Don mentioned something about peacocks not hitting surface lures and he and I both are looking for a largemouth bass type of fish. Or the rush you get from a powerful strike as your lure hits the water.

Rad :

Don't know a lot about PBass but all the times I have seen fishing shows on them they were using and catching PBass on top water plugs. Very strong strikes on the surface.

More importantly look at the PBass anatomy and physiology . Its eyes are forward and face out and up. That alone would make me think that it is a surface feeder with binocular vision in a strike range above and in front of its head. ewest

The truth is that Rad just likes the way the word, "barramundi," sounds.

He's currently cataloging all the ways he can work the word, "barramundi," into a conversation.

For example: "No, I did not empty the dishwasher. I was too busy with my BARRAMUNDI!"

Rad,

Peacock Bass are noted for top water action in South America...they fish for them virtually exclusively that way. Like EWEST said, they are made for top water feeding. Surprising that Don observed differently.

I've had friends that have caught them and really rave about their tenacity and aggressiveness...its on my "life" list for fish I want to catch before I can't fish anymore.

Sunil,
you caught me out, now if I could only find a dishwasher, plus barramundi has a much better roll to it than giant sea bass.
ewest and ML,
I went back and re read Don's post and he referred to their not striking at the surface. I think there are two types of peacock bass, don't quote me, Don said butterfly peacock? Any way, I am going to shop a market on Saturday where all types of fish are sold and take a look for the peacock and the barramundi.

Rad :

I understand that the barramundi are very good to eat don't know about PBass. ewest

ewest,
An aside, an Aussie company set up shop in the northeast US, they are going to raise and sell barramundi fillets. They raised the first batch, filleted them, 126 grams, and found that the US market wanted a larger piece of fish, 156 grams. Don't know if they will continue or not, but, barrimundi are now aquacultured in the US.

Just as an aside to what has been mentioned here regarding Peacock bass... PB are known for hitting surface lures. They explode on them. There are several different variations of peacock(Speckled, Butterfly, Royal to name a few) but all share the same aggresive nature just differ in sizes. Southern Flordia has successfully introduced Butterfly Peacock Bass that are a complete thrill to catch. Besides being a beautiful fish, pound for pound they are the best fighting freshwater fish I have caught. I've caught them on everything from Shiners to Topwater to Swimbaits and everything in between. Very aggressive and powerful predator.

Sorry for the interjection. Now back to your regular programming.

CMOS,

Welcome. No apology needed.....certainly from my view. Personal first hand experiences are most valued herein. It's what makes this a great place. Anybody can restate what they read in a book, but nothing beats the honest real deal, for me.

Glad to have another salt water fisherperson to add salinity to this bunch.

Thanks CMOS,
I will be looking for them tomorrow.

Rad, is there a reason that you aren't considering catfish? They are a good muddy water predator.

Language barrier is one of the biggest reasons, here a catfish is a catfish, might include anything from a mekong giant to a snakehead, all with the same name. Thailand has many flavors of catfish, most are omnivores. I aready have several, and not by choice.

Ok, the police cracked down on the fish market, no peacock bass in my area, so the government is my only choice. Hmm, I wonder if that was the plan? Anyway, the government only has 2 sizes of barramundi for sale, small or 1". This is the last sale until next year. I have no known predator, except the small fat snake, but, I have few 2 to 4" tilapia. Many 1 1/4 or smaller and lots 5" and up.
They will sell me a 100 for $5, how many of them do I put in the pond? I can do a put and take as there is a pond near me who's owner would dearly love them.

Well, I bought the barramundi. Released 110 1 inch long voracious little monsters the second week in Novemeber. I watched them sink away as I released them and wondered if I would ever see any of them again. I have walked the pond edge almost every day and could not find a one until yesterday, they are very distintive. I was watching a group of about 200 fry swimming along the edge when something shot up into their midst and was gone. I watched for several more minutes and it happened several more times as the fry swam past the same area of the first strike. I finally saw that there were two fish who were eating the fry, both barramundi. The fry would swim by the barramundi then when attacked they would swim a few feet out from shore and be attacked by some red tilapia fingerlings. Something I had never seen before. I have seen fingerlings feeding on pellets innermingled with fry and the fry not being touched. So I don't know what caused the fingerlings to attack. I watched the fry swim 100' or so along the bank and only be attacked in the one place where the barramundi were hiding.

Fascinating! Keep it comin'!

Rad :

That sounds a little like the territorial feeding habits of a large LMB . Stays in a favorite spot moving up and down in the water column and attacks what comes by . ewest

ewest,
That would be perfect, right now I have so many fry to fingerling fish that I have started feeding them. The monsoon limits the amount of sunshine I get which limits the amount of algae that grows. All these vicious circles, I will probably be trying to control the baramundi in a couple of weeks.

Rad, correct me if I'm wrong, but did your pond grow by 1/10 of an acre? I seem to remember it being 2/10 of an acre, now I see it as 3/10 of an acre.

Man that barramundi is a very capable fish!!

Sunil :

Its all those tilapia they eat all the plant life and then start on the bottom muck and next the sides of the pond. Before you know it the pond is 10 ft deeper and 25% bigger.

Please put me down for 1 million tilapia.

Actually, all you need is two and no predators and warm weather...presto one million Tilapia.

Sunil,
Caught me again, I started posting before the two monsoons, before the pond was full. It is now brimming. ML, it's not just the tilapia here, everything in the pond that can breed has bred, seems like every Wednesday I have a new batch of fry and the batches keep getting larger. I even have fresh water crabs, didn't know they existed.

Ok, the barramundi have been in the pond for 2 1/2 months now. I now see baramundi every day, probably conservative count of 50 or 60, the largest is about 3". They are now the same size as the smallest tilapia, the tilapia were 1 1/2" when the barramundi were stocked at 1". They seem to eat every living thing except water sliders and their eggs. I have no tadpoles, dragon flies or any fish fry. Before stocking I had up to a 1000 tadpoles every 6 weeks or so and fry every week. The barramundi are also eating pellets, or at least trying. They patrol in small groups of 4 to 10 and are extremely fast. They are mingling with the other fish at feeding time so when they become large enough to eat the others they will know where to go.
I have a question, now that the barramundi have wiped out several generations of other species, when will the other species fry start to survive and create the food chain?
A poacher has upset the balance in the pond, first by taking the largest tilapia and now the fingerlings, so I am planning on stocking many more tilapia in the next week or so in an effort to return the balance and provide additional food for the growing barramundi.
I read that out of a hundred small bass stocked only two would see the end of their first year and second all of my tilapia are sold as 99% male. With that in mind I am over doing the stocking. It will be another three months at least before I will be living at the pond site. So I must also plan for the poacher(s).

Here is some information:
http://www.nativefish.asn.au/barramundi.html

I can't believe the sizes:
Up to 1.8 m and 60 Kg (6' & 130 lb), common to 1.2 m

You may have created a monster with their teeth, size, and voracious appetite. Is there anyone else that stocks these fish in ponds in your area? Maybe you could find someone with experience. Without any other information I would cull the barramundi until you reach some kind of balance in your pond.

Rad :

Let them know if they will hold off a while you will give them a Bara. which will be bigger and taste great. The Bara. sound just like a hungry mob of LMB. You may have to get some female tilapia. Some people manage their LMB just as you describe , by adding additional forage as needed (BG ,TS, GS, tilapia , Shiners and pellets for all of them to eat). It makes it an aquaculture operation which works great just more intensive.

I have not done much fishing since we started building the house at the pond. But, the other day I thought is was time to wet a hook, so with cabbage in hand I started out. I had been fishing for several minutes when a tilapia took my bait. He carried it off about 30 feet and when I tried to set the hook I missed. I could see that there was about 1/2" square piece of cabbage left so I started a fast retrieve and wham, I got a strike, not a bite like pacu or tilapia but a strike. I got a small run and a few head shakes then I reeled it in, an 8" baramundi! These guys went in at 1" in the middle of november. I don't have any idea how many of the original 110 remain but the other species fingerlings are gone or in hiding and everybody is nervous. I don't even know if this fish was one of the original 110. Things have certainly changed since the days when I would see most of my fish at feeding time, now only the big guys show.

Rad :

That is almost 2 inches a mth. At that rate you will be eaten out of house and home. You may have to start full time feeding. Seems like I saw some info on art. feeding of bara. Did some checking -- Bara. on feed for 54 days went from 15g to 65g another group from 70g to 150g in 42 days wow. Just call them bruts. Check your email.

Thanks ewest a winner as always. I think mine are eating mostly live fish, they pecked at the 30% protein food pellets, but did not show the same interest as the omnivores. What was interesting was that some would take a pellet and push it,at the surface, to a remote area and then eat it. The omnivores take the food and drag in down. I stocked 2000 tilapia, 1 1/2 to 1 3/4", when the barramundi were about the same size, the tilapia are all but gone from view. We are in the hot season and tilapia breeders have little or nothing to sell until mid May, so my growth rates may slow. Interesting note: the turtles, frogs, toads, water snake and crabs have all left the pond. Even the herons have stopped coming by. I don't know if it's all interrelated,but it is interesting.

All of the non finned denizens leaving isn't just interesting; it's fascinating. Could this be weather related? Where could they go and why? Has this happened before and does it happen to other ponds? Could herons have migrated?

I just don't think I've ever heard of this.

Earthquake , volcano or tsunami on the way or is it anaconda ?

I didn't mean to make it sound so mysterious, but there are a few too many coincidences for me, all of this happened within a week or so. The herons are probably the easiest to explain, they don't normally feed in ponds around here, so when they first came and there was abundant food they came often. After the barramundi grew a little, the food at the surface dried up and they went back to their normal take out joints. Some of the turtles and all of the crabs, migrated into the pond so maybe they just migrated out, the snake is the hardest to figure, but maybe like the heron, he is a sight hunter. My water visibilty is 3" and with the fish gone or in hiding there was not much for him to eat. I am just starting into my second year with the pond, so maybe it's all part of a cycle and by next year I will have a better understanding....or not.

Ok, my tilapia reproduction has returned to is old formidable self, they are every where, only took a year. The poachers are gone and I think the barramundi are eating larger fish or are gone. I haven't seen one in a couple of months. They are about a year old now and I haven't tried to fish for them. We did catch two accidently, some time back, both about 8 to 10 inches long. Man, this patience is the key to so many things, why is it so hard to practice. I did catch a 5lb 2oz tilapia yesterday, that is about 10oz larger than the previous largest record for us. I was using a bobber and the fish hit it more often than the bait. I could see them take it and run for 20' or so then spit it out. I could put pressure on them and they still held on.

Rad with your year-round warm temps do you see the tilapia spawn/hatch all year ? If so that must be a real factory. A 5 lb + tilapia is big. It might feed a whole Tia family.

Rad- You should put some hooks on your bobber!

ewest,
They did before the barramundi and it looks as if they are reproducing at that rate now. The fry seem to have no fear they are back to swimming almost everywhere. It is good to see them in large numbers again. I will start planting them in the neighboring ponds soon, the cast netters seem to have moved on since I moved in so maybe the fish will have a chance to establish in them.
As an aside I have been trying to remove as many carp as possible and relocate them to these same ponds, but everybody I ask wants them to eat.
PFF,
I have a floating lure that looks a lot like a bobber that I might try. Either right before or right after feeding time they will try almost anything.