Pond Boss
I have a half acre pond that is probably 40 years old. My grandfather managed it for catfish until he died about 15 years ago. I've fished it for catfish several times over the last few years and haven't caught any. But the pond seems to be overcrowded with bluegill. I've thrown a baitcasting net, used traps, and fished for bluegill and gotten tons of them in the 2-4" range, very few that are any bigger. I would like to get the pond back to what it used to be, a channel catfish pond. Do I need to drain it and kill off the bluegill (and anything else) and then stock it with catfish? Or is there another way to do it? The bluegill overcrowding problem would stunt the catfish if I stock it with catfish, right? I have a bass pond on the same property. Would it work to put some bass in this pond to control the bluegill numbers? How many?
Posted By: jeffhasapond Re: I want a catfish pond - 03/16/10 03:08 PM
Hi Nathan Payne and welcome to Pond Boss. Hang on for some expert feedback.
I would imagine an overpopulation of BG would be beneficial to a catfish pond, much like it would be a trophy LMB pond. Is there spawning structure in the pond, that you know of, for CC?
Omaha, I'm a total newbie at this. But some of the stuff I read said that channel cats don't eat much bream. This document, http://theurbanrancher.tamu.edu/publications/B1319.pdf, says
"A common problem in managing
catfish ponds is the invasion and
overpopulation of unwanted fish
species. Sunfish (bream or perch),
shiners, shad, suckers, carp and bullheads
often invade catfish ponds and
compete with the catfish for food
and oxygen. They also increase the
likelihood of disease. Because catfish
eat mostly aquatic insects and
worms and actually catch few fish as
food, these fish species are relatively
unimportant in the catfish diet."

I've never added any spawning structures to the pond and never heard my grandfather say that he did. But it's very possible.
 Originally Posted By: Nathan Payne
Omaha, I'm a total newbie at this.


Same here!

 Originally Posted By: Nathan Payne
But some of the stuff I read said that channel cats don't eat much bream. This document, http://theurbanrancher.tamu.edu/publications/B1319.pdf, says
"A common problem in managing
catfish ponds is the invasion and
overpopulation of unwanted fish
species. Sunfish (bream or perch),
shiners, shad, suckers, carp and bullheads
often invade catfish ponds and
compete with the catfish for food
and oxygen. They also increase the
likelihood of disease. Because catfish
eat mostly aquatic insects and
worms and actually catch few fish as
food, these fish species are relatively
unimportant in the catfish diet."


Interesting. I don't know much about catfish in ponds, so I'm very interested to see what the experts have to add.

 Originally Posted By: Nathan Payne
I've never added any spawning structures to the pond and never heard my grandfather say that he did. But it's very possible.


Nathan, I wonder, and maybe I'm just thinking aloud here, if you simply fished all the CC out of there. I mean, that's an old pond, and if there isn't spawning habitat for CC then the likelihood of recruitment is very small. When was the last time you caught a cat out of this pond?
I don't know if it makes any difference, but the pond is spring fed and surrounded by mostly pine forest. At its deepest point it's about 15 feet deep.
Omaha, the last time anyone caught a cat out of it was probably 10 years ago. I want to restock it with catfish but wonder if I need to do something about the bluegill first. That article I linked to also said that you don't want to have a spawning habitat in a small pond because it will lead to catfish overcrowding. You're apparently supposed to restock every few years, which I'm happy to do. Catfish fingerlings are pretty cheap.
Yep, that's what I've read too Nathan. Looks like you're headed in the right direction then. Let's let one of the experts weigh in and get you on your way to catching cats again.
The BG numbers certainly won't cause stunting of catfish. They will be quite happy with that plentiful forage.

However, I do have a couple of concerns. Catching cats when they will never be hungry could be a challenge.

My biggest concern might be the bluegill biomass. These guys might be so crowded that they could cause a dissolved oxygen crash that would wipe out the cats. Since all of the BG are so small, it may have been an annual occurrence with only small fish that can get in the shallows surviving. These guys are spawning machines and catfish cannot control bluegill numbers.

I wouldn't put bass in. They will reduce the bluegill numbers but will also over spawn. It would be fun for awhile but inevitably you would become bass crowded.

If it were me, and it's not, I would kill off the bluegill or transfer all you can to the bass pond before killing and then restock with Hybrid Bluegills and channel cats. Add a feeder and you should have a pretty neat fishing hole in about a year.
Thanks for the advice, Dave. And I like the idea of transferring bluegill to the bass pond. Have you ever heard of someone training bass to eat bluegill on command? Like is there a way to injure a bluegill and make it thrash around on the surface until a bass comes and makes a meal out of him (hopefully with a big splash)?

Also, what would be the reason for restocking with Hybrid Bluegills in the catfish pond? Do they work well with the cats even if I'm not wanting to fish for them?
 Originally Posted By: Nathan Payne
Also, what would be the reason for restocking with Hybrid Bluegills in the catfish pond?


I believe he suggested this because they're not as prolific spawners as straight BG.
If I don't want to fish for any type of bluegill should I stock them in the pond at all with the catfish?
 Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
My biggest concern might be the bluegill biomass. These guys might be so crowded that they could cause a dissolved oxygen crash that would wipe out the cats. Since all of the BG are so small, it may have been an annual occurrence with only small fish that can get in the shallows surviving. These guys are spawning machines and catfish cannot control bluegill numbers.


That's interesting. Are you saying that it's possible that every year there could be so many bluegill that they use up all the oxygen so all of them die except the little ones in the shallows? Is there more oxygen in the shallows because of there being more surface area per volume?
Hey nathan,

I am up north building a pond in Southern Wisconsin. I am currently building a main pond for WE/SMB/YP but above the main pond will be a catfish pond, .5 acre size. I posted a similar question under the topic "Catfish and what". The guys gave a lot advice on what could be stocked and put with catfish that you might find helpful. They ran through the whole gmbit of ideas with pros and cons. Hope it helps
Nat, diff opinion. What size cats do you plan on stocking channels or blues? If larger blue cats they will hammer the bluegill and grow like crazy. Also larger 3 lb channel cats will also eat the bluegill.
If you put in bass they will indeed eat the bluegill and reduce. Dave if it becomes bass crowded, what is the problem? They will help control channel catfish reproduction to help Nat with catfish growth. Or sell the bluegill or use them to fed bass in other pond as suggested. Sorry I see the "pond as half full" not half empty. I would love to have a pond full of bluegill. I could grow the heck out of cats anm a few monster bass that way. Good Luck
Nat, I think Greg makes an excellent point-larger blue cats are excellent predators, and would probably thrive while controlling the 'gill population. Todd Overton sells blue fingerlings, or if you want to jump start things, you could add a few larger blues along with your channels. It might make the fishery a little more interesting to have a few really large blues around...someone around here caught a 90 pound blue out of a 2.5 acre pay lake a couple of years ago, they estimated that it had been in the lake for 15 years, as none larger than 20 lbs had ever been stocked.

You could still have an excellent put and take fishery with channels being the mainstay as well.
Nathan,

First, I agree completely with my good friend Dave D., except that I have some minor reservations about his last suggestion of killing off the pond and then including hybrid bluegill in the restocking ... more on that below.

No matter what, catfish in a small pond are both good and bad. Catfish generally cannot successfully generate new populations in small ponds for a wide variety of reasons.

The upside is that channel cats, at least in my area, are extremely cheap to stock -- even at the 12-14 inch size. I think I last paid about $1.50 a piece for 12-14 inchers. They transport very well, and they are very hardy. They are voracious feeders that grow very fast. Mine typically double in size each year.

The downside is that channel cats are voracious feeders that grow very fast. They are very smart. The become hook shy real fast, and can become quite difficult to catch. When you can't catch the smartest ones, they get to 10-20 lbs., and they can cause a lot of damage to a pond.

It is certainly a balancing act. As Dave says, they can run out of oxygen in a bluegill heavy pond.

One option is to go with a catfish-only pond that is pellet fed. A second option is to put twenty-five to a hundred 12-15 inch channel cats in your pond with the bluegill this spring, and see what happens.

DON'T PUT MORE CHANNEL CATS IN THE POND THAN YOU REASONABLY FIGURE YOU CAN PULL OUT IN ONE OR TWO SEASONS!

If after one season, you aren't catching decent catfish, and there are still lots of stunted bluegill, then I'd think about either adding bass, or taking Dave's suggestion. If you use hybrid bluegill, you will probably have to feed the catfish. Then they are easy to catch on flies and pellet flies.



Lastly, if the channel cats over-populate, call some buddies from Oklahoma, and they'll gladly come noodle the big ones out by their front teeth!


Nathan, I like HBG's because they have limited spawning. They eat the mosquitoes.

Regarding the biomass: Yep, they can overspawn and cause a die off. I have a 1/4 acre forage pond. It's not always that big due to lack of rain in my area. In theory, I need to seine what I can of it several times per year and transfer the bluegills. However, I have trouble getting suckers to pull on the other end of the seine. So, they spawn and overspawn until they foul the water and have a cleansing die off. By the next summer, they are back in force.

Greg, I have a problem with bass crowded ponds. Your idea has some merit but he already has a bass pond and wants a catfish pond. I don't see a bass heavy 1/2 acre pond as being half full or half empty. I don't like the idea of a bunch of big blues in a water hole that size. Now, as they use to say in the CB Radio days: "Kickerback".
Wow, great feedback guys. This is a great forum.

I think I'm leaning toward getting as many bluegills out as I can with traps and my bait casting net (and feeding them to my hungry bass). And then stocking with the larger channels (12"-14"). Catmandoo, did you suggest the larger ones because they will be able to control the bluegill population sooner? If I get 100 of them would I need to get all larger ones or could I get say 25 larger ones and 75 4"-6" ones. Would the 25 larger ones control the bluegill population?
One more question. Should I transfer all the bluegill I can into the bass pond on one day? Or will that negatively affect the bass pond? The bass pond still has some bass overcrowding, but it's getting better. I fertilized it last year and have been harvesting the bass I catch. So anyway, if I drop 500-1000 bluegill into the bass pond this Saturday would that cause problems?
I don't see a problem.

BTW, how big is the bass pond?
It's about an acre and a half.
Sounds like your bass will be having a great weekend! If it was me, i'd ice down a 12 pack and find a comfortable spot to watch the action.
Nathan, Greg and I disagree on one point.

He is a well known Professional in the pond world with dang good credentials, education and reputation. I, on the other hand, am only a pond junkie. That might make a difference when you are evaluating different ideas.

Of course, he's not from Texas so that ought to just about even us out.
A lot depends on how much money you want to sink into this endeavor as to what my ideas would be.
How about a high end idea and a low end idea, CJB?
Is your goal good numbers of eating sized cats or to grow some bigger ones more for recreation?
My goal is eating sized cats.
High end: Remove the current fish population, weather it be via chemical or draining. Remove any and all cover and I mean anything that could allow catfish to spawn in it. Allow the the pond to fill up. Stock it with 10 pounds of FHM, 50 RES and however many CC you plan to eat in a year. Install a high quality feeder and sling out catfish feed like Aquamax 2000. Feed twice a day as much as your CC will eat in about 10-15 minutes. Each year thereafter stock the amount of CC you plan to eat in a year. The RES should maintain numbers and will act as a minor additional food source for your CC while also controlling snail population which may help with parasite issues in the pond. IME, FHM will maintain a breeding population under just CC predation and should control mosquito larvae as well also provide bonus feed to your CC.

Low end: Catch, kill, remove, relocate, destroy as many of the BG as you can. Your bass pond should provide you with some cull bass in the 8"-12" size... I would relocate 10-15 of these bass to this pond and they should start working to help you control the BG numbers as well. BG and CC compete with each other when CC are smaller in size, but the size CC you'd be stocking(10"-12") shouldn't be in direct competition with the BG for long. A big issue will be the BG eating the feed you intend for the CC. If you go the natural food chain route which is really going low end, you won't be able to stock as many CC or their growth rate will be very slow. If you feed the fish in a manner similar to above, you can consider stocking more. Again, they should be stocked annually at the 10-12" size range.

There are lots of ways to reach eating size catfish goals. I am not saying mine is the only nor the best. Just throwing my ideas out there. However, I will say as has been said on here before. CC get hook smart very fast... So if you catch a CC, keep it or you may never catch him again! The last thing you want are a bunch of hook shy 10+ CC's taking up all the biomass of your pond...
What's the reason for stocking 10"-12" CC vs fingerlings (which are cheaper)? Other than the fact that they will be ready to eat sooner. Would fingerlings not survive?
Smaller sizes will become easy snacks, particularly if you have bass in the pond. In the high end scenario, you can probably get away with smaller fingerlings as there wouldn't be any bass in your pond.

You have to think about how many CC you want to harvest annually and at what size you would prefer to harvest them. You can then decide if feeding, aeration, etc will be needed to reach those goals.
OK, an update on this project. I suckered a few different people over a few different saturdays into helping me start (and then re-start) a siphon to drain the pond. It took a few tries but we finally got it working. The siphon lowered the water by about 8 feet and in the deepest spot the pond is still 8 feet deep. I would need to basically start over with a new siphon because the pipe I have won't take it any lower. I'd rather not spend the money, but am open to it if it's the right move. I've also had my two traps in the pond pretty much non stop over the last month transferring BG to the bass pond. Usually 30-60 BG per day. I've moved the traps around the pond and am not catching as many as I used to. So maybe I'm making progress. I've also started clearing out everything that CC could spawn in. Do you think I could go ahead and stock CC now? The pond is probably .25 to .3 acres right now. What problems would I introduce by stocking CC now? Is there a best time of year to stock them?
I probably wouldn't stock this time of year. The water is probably pretty warm and, being bottom water, might be of questionable quality.
Well I have kind of the same problem, except I caused mine for overstocking it.

I wanted fish in it quickly and took the suggestion from the fish farm.

I had not found Pond boss before or would have received the info I needed.

Will try to start documenting the progress of my pond and let every one know how it is going since way too many fish are in the pond and I am not sure how fast any of them will grow now.

The only benefit I see right now is that you can catch a HBG every cast, which makes it fun for the kiddos.

The problem with this is that they are only 3-5 inches long and do not give the other fish a chance to take the bait.

I know that CC are hook shy but I really want to catch a few of them just to see if they have grown any since I stocked them in Dec. 2009. They only thing I helps me out with this pond is that it is surrounded by trees so I am sure many bugs and other critters fall in the water, otherwise there may not be any food at all.

Will try to upload some pics and may even start a new Post.

Just may be a while as we have had over 3 inches of rain today and if you as much as sneeze you can't get to the pond that I stocked.
How big is that pond in the background with the kid holding the CC?
I have a small 1/3 acre pond next to my larger pond that I want to make into a CC pond as well. My experience with a feeder is that it attracts and holds geese better than fish.

What would you stock for forage for the CC so they will grow? Is there enough natural forage in a field pond to get decent CC growth?
FHM and GSH would both be suitable forage species. I wouldn't stock BG or any hard finned species. As far as decent growth rates, that is related to stocking density and what your definition of decent is... If you aren't feeding, I would keep the stocking rate at or less than 50 per acre. Have you thought about using sinking feed to making it harder on the geese to chow down on the pellets?
I have never seen sinking bait? Can you give me a name? The only catfish food around here floats. Maybe dog food?
Originally Posted By: Nathan Payne
What's the reason for stocking 10"-12" CC vs fingerlings (which are cheaper)? Other than the fact that they will be ready to eat sooner. Would fingerlings not survive?


CJBS answered it pretty well. From my experience here in Virginia and West Virginia, the price difference between 10-12 inch catfish vs. fingerlings hardly enters into the equation. 4-5 inch fish are $0.75 each. 10-12 inch fish are $1.50 each.

I put 4-5 inch fish in several years ago. I believe they were all eaten the first day. In recent years, I've put in 10-12 inch CC. They have been so successful, I haven't really kept track of them. If put them into the pond by Memorial Day, they are 16-18 inches by Labor Day. By the following May, they are 20-24 inches.

The only real problem is that they are fairly smart, and they have long memories. I've again got some that must be approaching 30 inches, and they know a hook-and-line from everything else they like to snack on.

I credit them for helping me maintain a pond full of citation size bluegill, which is my main goal.

Ken
Catmandoo,

Do you feed them or do they grow that size naturally? I just drained my pond and all the CC I bought from Zett's morphed into Brown Bullheads! 198 out of 200. Imagine that?
Originally Posted By: Mark Brown
Catmandoo,

Do you feed them or do they grow that size naturally? I just drained my pond and all the CC I bought from Zett's morphed into Brown Bullheads! 198 out of 200. Imagine that?


Hey Mark,

For much of the last year I've not been feeding everyday because I'm staying in an apartment near work during the week. But, I'm feeding at least three nights per week.

Interestingly, the feed I've been using for the past couple of years is both floating and sinking. I've been using Southern States Li'l Strike, which is a 36% protien 1/8-inch pellet. About 1/3 of the pellets sink soon after hitting the water. The bluegill, bass, and trout suck it off the top. The catfish seldom come to the top for it, but I know they are cleaning it off the bottom.

I suspect that most of the catfish nutrition comes from natural food inside the pond, and not the food I use.

That is unfortunate about your bullheads from Zetts. Have you talked to Andrew Zetts about it? I suspect the problem was due to inexperienced help. Everyone there is always very nice to me, but some of the younger guys wouldn't know a trout from a catfish.

I've bought channel cats from them a number of times, and have never had a problem. Only once have I bought small ones (4"). The rest of the time I've bought the 10-12 inch. With that size, there is no mistaking that they are channel cats.

Ken
The place I'm thinking to use sells 4-6" CC for $.30. 11-14 inchers are $2.50/lb. I still haven't decided which I'm going to use. I guess I have time now since I need to wait for the water to cool back down.

Quick question for the experts out there: Does sinking catfish food do OK in a pond that stratifies? ie if the bottom of the pond has low levels of DO will catfish go down there to eat the food?
I would go ahead and stock the CC now. Whereever you get them from nearby is gonna have warm water. Just make sure you acclimate them to your pond water by adding a little at a time to the bags or other transport container. I also wouldnt start off with any sinking food. That would do better as the surface temp gets too cold for them to surface feed. When that time comes, mix some in with the floating for the transition period. If you can get some of Cat's suggested feed, that would be ideal.
Hey Cat,

I have talked with Mrs. Zett and she says there is no way they a mistake when thet sold me 200CC fry to get my pond started. We drained it and all the cats were BB-not a single CC.

She said bring her one to prove it so i froze one and am going to take it to her when I restock. She said she would give me CC for free so we will see. They also said I needed snails to create an enviroment so I got 200 of them. 5 years later when drained you couldn't walk across the bottom without stepping on them. So now I have snail issues as well.

Hopefully, when I restock I can get some larger RES and larger CC as I will be moving a lot of mature LMB and BG back into the larger pond.
Speaking of inexperienced help, Rex last week picked up fish that were going to be on the truck for a number of days. In that instance, you want to be sure that they are purged to keep the ammonia and other waste levels down. One of the helpers at the hatchery thought the fish should be fed so they don't starve during the long trip.....
Well, it turns out it wasn't expensive at all to get the PVC to siphon it all the way down. I'm using 2" PVC and it's lowering the level about 3" per day. So I'm thinking to drain it all the way down and start fresh in the fall. Once I get it going as a catfish-only (plus forage) pond I'm planning to restock it every year or two to replace the ones I harvest. A few years from now when I have 2+ pound CC in there will I be able to stock the cheaper 4-6" inch CC fingerlings or will the big ones eat them?
If you put in 6"-9" CC in the Spring and feed 'em, they'll be 2+ lbs within 12 months. The price difference around here between the 4"-6" and the 6"-9" isn't worth the time playing around with the smaller ones.
So a 6" CC likely won't get eaten by a bigger one?
I think the biggest factor is gape size, and compared some fish, CC have a pretty small gape in relation to body size.
Another update on this project. And a couple of new questions. But first a picture:

The pond (puddle) is about half the size of what the picture shows now. I forgot to take my camera when I went to check this morning. The siphon quit sucking so it won't drain any further. The water that's left is about a foot deep (with maybe another foot or so of muck underneath). It is roughly a circle that's 40 feet across. I would like to use hydrated lime to kill everything that's left in it. How do I calculate how much to use? Or is it just trial and error until I get the pH to 11? Also, our dog likes to swim in the pond. Should we keep him tied so he doesn't get in it? How long should we keep him tied? Or will he avoid it on his own?
I don't know how to calculate it, but definately keep the dog tied up so it stays out of the pond until it's nutralized. They won't know it isn't good for them until it's too late.
Well, I bought a 50 pound bag of hydrated lime and went down to the pond yesterday to restart the siphon so there would be less water in it today when I applied it (there's a spring fed stream that runs into it all the time. There were dead BG floating on half the water so I wondered if I didn't need to do it. But I paddled around a little and saw that there were still lots of BG alive. So this morning I went and started moving around the puddle in the jon boat shoveling the lime in. The fish were definitely agitated by it. Some were jumping out of the water trying to get away. I went back about 6 hours later and there were lots of dead BG. I didn't see any dead gambusia minnows though. And there were quite a few BG that had congregated where the fresh water comes into the puddle. I netted all that I could out from that spot hoping that I got them all. I'm sure some escaped though. Do you all think I need to apply more lime until the gambusia die, which would guarantee that all the BG die? Can a handful of small BG multiply and take over a pond? Also, what pH should I be looking for to untie the dog?
OK, one more question. There are now hundreds (maybe 1000s) of 2-4" dead BG on the surface of the pond/puddle. I spent a couple of hours yesterday scooping them up into five gallon buckets and then burying them. I did that with two bucketfulls. I scooped up a fair amount of muck too because most of the fish are near the shore and it was impossible to get the fish without getting the muck. So I don't know how much of my two bucketfulls was actually fish. Anyway, there are still lots of dead fish. My question is, after killing the fish off like this do you normally net them out and dispose of them? Or do you let nature run its course?
Interesting situation, Nathan, and I don't know the answer but am sure you'll get some input from others. Any chance of posting a pic? I'm curious to see what you've got there.
Here's a link to a picasa site with several pics of the pond. http://picasaweb.google.com/nrp0450/CatfishPond# It doesn't have any since I applied the lime. I'll try to post some of those later today.
Thanks, Nathan. I think I've seen these (if you didn't post this link before, someone else has a pond that looks strikingly like yours!) already. Looks like neat potential once you redo it. I'm just really interested in seeing the results of your fish kill - probably kind of morbid, but I've often wondered about that sort of thing and how it would look at my ponds. You just kind of always wonder exactly how many fish are under the surface (I know, I know, one would hope ALL of them are under the surface! grin ) and what you're going through right now sure seems like it would answer that question. Sorry to ramble, but looking forward to your pics.
Yeah, I posted some of those pics with a question about a hole in my clay liner. Still waiting for an answer on that. I just walked up from the pond with some new pics. (I love the fact that I can just take a few steps off my back porch and be at the pond.) It's kind of hard to capture the fish kill with pictures since all the fish are under 4". They just show up as white blobs on the picture. I did get one pic zooming in but that misses the magnitude of it. Anyway, here are the pics:

All the little white specs you see on the surface of the water are fish:

For this pic I zoomed in to the group of floaters in the lower left side of the pond in the above picture.

You can't see the fish clearly in this pic but it shows that they are everywhere:

I've been trapping the fish in this pond almost non-stop for two months and also siphoning the water out so I don't know if the concentration of fish is representative of what it looked like before I started or not. Plus I already scooped out the two bucketfulls (plus muck) yesterday.
Wow. That's a lot of fish alright! Especially in light of the previous live removal and dead removal efforts you've made. Good luck on getting it finished up so you can move on to the next phase.

And I know what you mean about how great it is to just walk out and be at the pond. I can't wait to make that reality for myself, too. It's already exciting knowing ours are only about 15 minutes away. I'll probably never get anything revenue-generating done once we move!
I forgot to post about this earlier. So I'll do it now. As the siphon brought the pond level lower and lower we started to see a catfish trolling the surface. It looked like it was eating algae. I tried catching it with bait and with a bait casting net. I threw the net right over it once and felt it in the net but it wasn't there when I pulled it up. When the pond level was down to about a foot we found it dead. Then later in the day we found the other one. Here's a pic of the first one:

This guy only had one eye....just skin over the spot where the other eye should have been.

The last time the pond was stocked was 20 or so years ago, a little bit before my grandfather died. Do CC live that long? Or would these be remants of a one-time spawn a while back? Also, would this mean I DIDN'T have a DO-crash-induced fish kill?

I'm letting the pond refill now, assuming that I killed all the BG with lime. We'll see if that's true. I would still like to know if it's normal for BG to die and Gambusia minnows to survive a lime treatment like that. Does anyone know?
Can you please come and get some of my catfish and take them home! I am catfish crowded.
James, I've seen some of your posts about catfish around the forum. How did you get so catfish crowded? Has you trap worked?
My catfish reproduce and start to show up at the feeders at about six inches. I have five feeders and the feeder closest to the dry creek has most of the small catfish which make me think the catfish are somehow spawning around that area of the pond. When your feeders go off and most of the fish at the feeders are catfish its time to start removing them. I am going to place the trap this weekend. I have been out of town a lot lately.
Nathon Payne - Have you considered putting some hardware structure mid-lake for fish attractors. Throughout the year as water levels change the little fish will migrate towards the structure and the bigger fish will eat them. In my 1.5 acre pond it seems to help balance the population variety of fish sizes.

One other comment since I couldn't tell from the surrounding tree cover. Make sure there are enough cross lake breezes available to the pond for aeration if none provided otherwise fish will stress even if feed - probably more. Too thick a tree stand can cut off your air movement.

Nice pond.
Here is a picture of the net with a few fish in it. We caught turtles, bullheads,bluegill,crappie and bass but not a single channel catfish. I need to learn how to set the net better possibly in deeper water.
James, did you get any wings with the net? Where'd ya get it?
Wow, that is a big net. Hopefully you can figure out how to catch CCs in it.

I'm thoroughly confused now about structure in a CC-only pond. If I'm going to feed them do I need any structure?

I've wondered if the trees around the pond are causing low DO levels. I've looked into getting an aeration system going and read lots of threads on it but haven't pulled the trigger yet. I was glad to see that there were two big CCs in the pond after all these years because that meant (I think) that I never had a fish kill. At least not a total fish kill. I get that aeration makes for a healthier pond and healthier fish, but is there a way to know if that's my limiting factor for growing CCs?
Well, I got my 4-6" CCs about two weeks ago. I ordered 150 of them but we counted 212 when we put them in. Here are some pics from the big day.

We got the fish from Tyler Fish Farm.


They told us to cut the fish bag and empty it into a bucket. And then add water from the pond enough to double the amount of water. Then let them sit for 3 minutes before putting them into the pond.




I've been feeding them two or three times a day since they went in. Or trying to feed them, I should say. I've only actually seen the baby CCs eat once. The gambusia minnows love the feed though. I was hoping the CCs would be eating better by now. Even when we had nice warm weather last week they weren't coming. I've feed in the same spot every time and even have a feeding ring up now. I've also tried walking around the pond throwing a little feed out all around it. But have had no luck. Do I need to just wait until the water warms up next spring? Or can I expect them to start eating this winter?

Also, I've seen a few BG (I'm wondering now if they're GSF and not BG though) that must have survived the hydrated lime treatment. I should have dammed up the inflow. I had found several of them hanging out right where the spring-fed stream came into the puddle (maybe 5 gallons per minute). I thought I netted them all out but apparently not. I've removed about 30 of them in the last two weeks. If they take over the pond again at least I know what to do next time.

Any thoughts on why my CCs aren't feeding?
They are probably just hanging out if they do not take to it this fall I am sure you will see plenty next year.

Did you get any albino cats?

I really never noticed mine come up either, now I think they may be the only fish feeding.

That is the same size I put in as well a year ago so I will be curious to see how well they do in a years time since you already started feeding yours.

What size is your pond again?

It seems like you got a nice count anyway.

What size is your pond again?

It seems like you got a nice count anyway.
Posted By: lburch Re: I want a catfish pond - 11/16/10 12:11 AM
Dear Pond Boss:

I have a 1.75 acre deep Georgia mountain pond with significant fresh water supply, i.e. springs and sufficient stream. Deepest part runs through center, 20 foot depth.

Overhanging wooded pond. I'd like catfish. I have been working on this pond with improvements for the past two years. New overflow, etc. Ready for stocking.

Someone, please give me advice, without hours of personal research. I trust Pond Boss and it's readers.

Lee Burch
Posted By: esshup Re: I want a catfish pond - 11/16/10 02:36 AM
Nathan:

What's your water temps near the surface? If it's getting in the mid 60's then the CC won't feed much on floating pellets, but they might be scarfing up pellets that sunk to the bottom or are sinking. CC are warmwater fish and really slow down on feeding in cooler water.

Lee, you probably will get more visibility if you start your own thread with the question that you asked.

In any case, I'll toss out another question for you here, and you can incorporate it into your previous question.

What are the other fish in the pond, and what size are they? I'll bet that you can have CC in the pond, but let us know what other fish are in the pond now.
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: I want a catfish pond - 11/16/10 12:34 PM
Nathan, at this point, I expect the CC's are getting acclimated to their new surroundings. They have never lived anyplace that they couldn't see the other side of. For the first couple of days, you can usually see them circling the pond and coming to the top and looking around. It might be a little late this year to get them acclimated but I expect, if you continue, you will see a couple of them coming up.
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: I want a catfish pond - 11/16/10 12:43 PM
Lee, the first step should involve checking the water quality. Find out what the PH and alkilinity levels are. Take action as needed(or not). Streams and springs can be problematical. Is this a flow through pond?

What will the cats eat? What fish will the stream add? As Esshup asked, what kind of fish are currently there? If the stream has added some 12 inch bass, your CC will have to be at least 6 inches at stocking time.

At this point, you really need to tell us where you are before we can tell you how to accomplish your objective.

BTW, I like catfish ponds.






Posted By: Nathan Payne Re: I want a catfish pond - 11/16/10 09:05 PM
I just took the surface temperature and it was 61 at the spot where I've been feeding. So that must be it. I know of other people who live around here who have gotten their CCs to take floating feed all through the winter. Though not nearly as vigorously of course, and they started them feeding in warm weather. I'll keep trying and see what happens.

The pond will be 1/2 acre when it's full. It's still filling and is maybe 60-70% that size right now. It's been filling up pretty quickly though. By early next year I think it will be full.

I didn't see any albino cats.
Posted By: lburch Re: I want a catfish pond - 11/16/10 11:26 PM
Thanks for response. Currently, I've just closed drain. There are no fish in pond, just frogs and tadpoles and one mean snake that bit me in August.

Water has only been at pool for 1 month.

I'm open for your ideas on stocking. Essentially, Catfish is my preference for consumption.

Lee
Posted By: lburch Re: I want a catfish pond - 11/16/10 11:36 PM
Flow through? Yes. A Damn with a spill way overflow. As far as PH, how expensive to keep PH in check. I already have that assignment on our swimming pool.

I would feed via a feeder. What recommendations on stocking. This same pond has been a very successful all round fishing pond.

Thanks again for advice.

Lee
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: I want a catfish pond - 11/17/10 02:51 AM
Ok, in a fed pond with a flow through I think you could do 200 or so per acre. Of course, that assumes some agressive fishing.

What is your PH at this time?
Posted By: lburch Re: I want a catfish pond - 11/19/10 03:24 AM
I'll check PH. I am searching for a fish hatchery. In the past, the State came out and stocked my pond. State Biologist stated due to depth and flow, would probabaly sustain some Trout, naturally though unable to reproduce.

I've owned this pond for thirty years. Always been a great pond in the past with no real management on my part. I'd like to keep it simple.

Lee Burch
East Texas ponds are usually acidic and don't fair well with catfish unless treated with lime. I had ponds near Hawkins, north of Tyler, and lost every fish because I didn't know better (I've since learned much from this site). As far as bluegill overcrowding, I would't mind that problem at all -assuming that they are bluegill and not greenies. I have a pond now smaller than your's with at least 200 cats , and its has many bluegill and greenies. And, channel cat will eat bluegill if the can catch them - I've seen to many cats caught on trotlines bait with live bluegill not to realize that.
Squeeky, I didn't know you could lose all your fish because of not liming. How do you know it was because of that?

I looked into liming this pond but decided it wasn't worth the cost or effort. Right now there's no way a truck could get to the pond. If the CC don't grow well I will probably lime it in a year or two.

The experts told me earlier in this thread that getting rid of the BG (GSF? I need to learn how to tell the difference) was the way to go if I was planning to feed the CC (which I am). The BG would eat a lot of my feed and I'm not interested in growing BG in this pond. Plus they would add to the biomass and possibly cause dissolved oxygen problems. I think they probably got in the pond because my grandfather used them as bait on his trotline in the pond 20 years ago. My grandma says he definitely didn't stock anything except CC in it.
HBG and CC with feed is a simple workable plan if you want a put and take fishery. I would add a couple of HSB to that to help with the HBG offspring.
The HSB would be interesting. And the place I got my fish, Tyler Fish Farm, sells them. How would the HSB do if the only feed I throw in the pond is the cheaper 32% protein catfish food? I'd be willing to buy the right food for the HSB but I don't want to feed it to the CC if they'll grow well on the cheaper stuff. Is there a way to get the HSB to eat their food and the CC to eat theirs? I'm guessing not. What would happen to the HSB if the only food I throw in the pond is CC food?

I don't think Tyler Fish Farm sells HBG. Is there another fish that could fill that 'niche'? What exactly is the reason for stocking them?
The HBG and CC will eat the same food. HSB can eat it also. Purina GFC would work and is probably about the same cost or close. Check on that as it will do a little better for all 3 than plain catfish food. I would also suggest you add some FH as well.
I'll definitely check on the GFC. The more I think about it the more excited I get about maybe getting some HSB.

ewest, if I'm not interested in catching HBG is there still a reason to stock them?
They are great for kids to catch - grow fast , very aggressive and easy to get to bite. They will provide some forage for the CC.
I can't say definitively that is was the acid condition of the water that caused my fish loss, but other pond owners in that area had told me that their ponds had slowly lost fish due to the acidic conditions. I also had a large garden pond at Holly Lake Ranch which was in the area of my ponds, with Koy and Goldfish that seemed to do ok. The water was filtered and aerated, but when I tossed a few small CC in, they started coming belly up within a week or so. By the way, you can trap greenies and BG very effectively with floating funnel traps baited with a handful of floating catfish pellets. I make my own traps with pvc and plastic mesh and set out 2 or 3 traps at a time
I've trapped many BG and greenies, but never a CC or bass.
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