I have bought a farm with a 2 acre pond on it about 1 1/2 years ago. The farm has a house on it that I rent out to some folks sort of in a caretaker status. My question is how much fishing can the pond handle without getting to the point that it is difficult to catch fish. The renter fishes it quite a bit, but keeps only the cc which I want removed. He throws back everything else. ANother fellow who works for me on the farm fishes a good bit also and I have noticed a few friends of theirs fishing there also. I get to fish there maybe once a week. Without being a hard ass, how many folks can fish there without getting the fish "gun shy?" I know this is a rather nebulous question,but whatever help you can give canhelp. jimmyt

jimmyt:

What fish are in the pond, and what are you fishing for? Personally, I've noticed in my pond, that the CC wise up the quickest, followed by LMB and BG.

JT-

It depends on how many fish you've got, what kind they are, the skill of those who are fishing it, how easy the pond is to fish [shoreline access, depth, islands,etc] and how you define good fishing. As a generalization, however, the fish in a two acre pond can be educated very quickly by fairly intensive fishing....I'd value the opinions of someone like Nate who manages a lot of bodies of water around this size.

How's that for a totally nebulous response, which could have been distilled to "it all depends"?

jimmy, keep track of your hours fished and the number/type of fish you catch. You may well be able to see any drop in Catch per Unit Effort (CPUE) resulting from overfishing.

I'd say your fishing is gonna get real tough with that many guys fishing a 2 acre pond. Anything much under 5 acres and it can be hammered real quick. The bass will get darn smart fast! I have seen it happen many a times... A new water supply reservoir which was closed to fishing for the first 4 years after it reached full pool was finally opened up last year. The reservoir is 400 plus acres. The first couple months after opening you could catch 100 plus bass in a day with many in the 18"-2-" range. By fall of the first year the numbers were down to 20. Now, you work just as hard as any other lake... The bass got darn smart fast! The reservoir is a fee fish place, so it doesn't get hammered as hard as others as well. I doubt it sees the acre hours of fishing your pond is getting...

I'm with Yolk. A two-acre pond is a decent-sized pond...until you get the number of people fishing it that you currently have, at which point the fish quickly can become extremely hook-shy (and depleted if even one or two of those fishermen are keeping their catch). I would say just from the regularity of lines being plied in that pond that probably the larger bass in there are already far past ever falling for any presentation other than a live bluegill. I fish a pond that's smaller than yours, a little under an acre, but which receives about the equivalent (less total, but for its size about the same) pressure; I've only seen other fishermen there when I was there, a handful of times over two years, though one of those times there were two other parties other than me. It has several large LMB that I've seen as recently as last fall when I saw a pack of six or eight not one of which would've gone under four pounds and some bigger; a couple years ago the larger bass would still hit lures, but now I have gone over a year without hooking a big one on a lure. They go after live bluegill with great frequency; anything else and you're just practicing your casting skills. The smaller bass (1-2 pounds) still hit lures; the big ones just ignore you. I haven't heard of or seen anyone catch one of the larger ones on a lure in close to two years. I've caught several big ones just in the past two months while reeling in a small bluegill, but they're over lures.

I would suggest significantly curtailing the frequency of fishing trips by anyone but yourself and your loved ones. Come up with a schedule, once or twice a month perhaps (two acres is not a 1,000 acre lake), of trips allowed by renters, friends of renters you want to allow (I wouldn't be that generous but that's just me), etc.; once the quota has been reached for a given month, no more trips other than by you and the family.

IMO what you described is to many people/time fishing for that size pond. Way to many. A couple things to consider .

You do not know about the morts. A % of all fish hooked die , all fish removed die , natural morts can be high.

The fish that bite are the ones with the highest morts and over time the non-biters will dominate and pass that genetic trait on to offspring. See the upcoming issue of PB mag for the story. A certain % of fish will never bite a lure or hook (see LMB research - same for BG and tilapia among others).

You don't know what or how many fish are being taken out. Often people say 1 thing and do something else. This can result in an out of balance population as well as hook shy fish. There are several threads here on "catchability" and articles in PB mag. Without the exact info you can't make informed choices with out a population analysis.

That's fascinating stuff about the non-biter gene, Eric. I can't wait to read the article.

I have a five acre pond that I usally fish around once a week. It only took the fish about a year to figure out most of my tricks. Every now and then I can try something new and catch a good many but most of the time I fish all day just to catch a few fish. They learn alot quicker than people think. I tag alot of my fish when I catch them and record what I caught them on. I rarley catch the same fish on the same lure twice. You might think that all those people your letting fish are following your rules but they are probably keeping every thing and will fish the pond to death till they have cleaned it out. You might want to think about cutting out some of the fishing.

Thanks, guys, for the info on my obviously over fished pond. I will take corrective measures at once. It is really hard to say no to people, but ultimately the reason I bought this farm was I wanted a place for ME to fish!

Yes, it can be tough to say no but when people abuse your permission but letting all their friends fish as well, it gets a lot easier to say NO.

You could always invite them to chip in on the management costs. Probably that would whittle down the number of prospective fishermen significantly.

But seriously, don't hesitate to give them the boot. As CJ noted, granting all of their friends permission they don't have to grant, is the hallmark of people who don't respect your pond.

I have three lakes. 2.5 acre, 3.5 acre, and 25 acre. The only one that you can easily catch bass in is the large one. I have allowed a good bit of fishing in the smaller lakes to keep them from getting bass heavy. The fishing is not good in either, but it's great in the 25 acre one. I've saved it for my grand kids and other people bringing kids. They have a blast, but now I've considered loosening up some to prevent it from getting bass heavy.
What is the balance?

25 acres gives some room to work with catchability.

By balance do you mean balancing the amount of fishing so as not to have a catchability problem or do you mean the balance of fish populations in the lake ?

I don't want to allow so much fishing that the kids can't catch them anymore, so should I not worry about it getting bass heavy and just the the kids take out the small ones they catch. I have had a pond get bass heavy in the past and am just gun shy about it.

Just an idea. Why not make one of the smaller ones your easy catch lake and focus the big one on more lofty goals. It seems like your smaller ponds could be great to turn into easy catch holes while allowing you to really take advantage of the big one.

Whenever I take my 3-year old, soon to be cousin in laws, fishing they dont give a rip how big the body of water is as long as they catch something. (We tend to get 4 inch bluegill from a 1/10 acre pond.

Idk just an idea

Those are sure good possible options.

TedJ said "so should I not worry about it getting bass heavy and just the kids take out the small ones they catch."

From a typical southern LMB/BG lake with normal productivity you can remove 10 to 20 lbs of LMB per acre a year. At an average .75 lbs per small LMB that is about 20 LMB per acre or 375 LMB. Adjust the #s to keep good RW (Wr) and condition.

I would intentionally let one of the small lakes be LMB crowded so as to have a trophy BG lake - great for kids fishing.

Ted I think a well thought plan needs to be implemented. Having multiple ponds are great because they can be managed differently to meet goals. I echo Ewest I usually suggest letting a smaller pond in your scenario get bass heavy on purpose to grow big bluegill. For smaller pond you can have hsb fishing possibly or trout in winter time that last about 6 months. You know Travis Turner? I think I got him thinking about winter trout as well if interested I can call you in October when placing our orders.

Also for your big lake goals you need to get a buttoned up harvest figure both of what sizes to take and how many lbs. The rates Ewest gave are too low if leaning towards bass heavy already and goal is big bass.

Greg is right. The #s I gave were for an average balanced pond in the south with a goal of keeping it balanced. If LMB crowded you may need to go up to 30 lbs pre acre.

Greg, isn't Travis Turner a big deer hunter on hunting DVD's? That name is ringing a bell...

CJ you must liek the hunting shows as much as me, yes that is Tbone from Bone Collector show, super nice guy with a littel 3/4 acre pond he fixed up.

That's some good suggestions. I think I'm going to let the 2.5 acre pond become bass heavy and manage for the big bluegill. It's stocked with coppernose now. I used to feed them regulary but it seemed to hurt the fishing some. I love to fly fish, and used to stock the small pond with trout. Now that was fun. Got back into my beagles and the fly fishing went to the wayside.

Feeding is the most surefire way to grow huge bluegill, Ted. If your tactics are sound you should still be able to catch them very well; if anything, the food should concentrate them and make them easier to catch. An automatic feeder or feeders are the way to go if you really want to maximize bluegill size because an auto feeder never misses a feeding, and you can set it to feed three or four times a day (you can set them for more than that but more feedings produce diminishing returns according to studies).

If you do feed, selling Stubby Steve's to use as bait would go hand in hand!

Cool, I thought the name sounded familiar. He seems like a super nice down to earth guy. And yes, I watch way too many hunting shows! HAHA

I've found that maintaining a lake can get very expensive. Paid $1600.00 last year to kill grass, not to mention the cost to build it. So I'm thinking about letting some people in on a fee per trip. How much fishing can a 25 acre lake stand? In both my smaller ponds the fishing has gotten really bad. I'm friends with a guy that does some guiding and the claims that they don't have much of a memory. I've seen that not to be true. Seem pertly smart to me.

Ted yes bass tend to get lure shy. If you charged right amount basically use smaller pond as put and take scenario. We can load you up with cats in the summer and trout in the winter. I look at it as cash flow and would charge a membership fee instead of daily fishing rate cater to higher end say $200-$500/year for a family. This would make it easeir on you and with higher end clietn probably not be taking fish anyways unless you told them to do so. WIth just 10 members you could have good income to offset the mgmt cost. Again we go past you to Hamilton once a month if a consultant is needed.

That's a bad situation... the fact that they're inviting friends over to fish it without your permission is worrisome.

My thought is that if a pond owner is going to let anyone outside of their own immediate family fish the pond it should be by written permission only, with signs stating this posted at the pond. The written permission should spell out terms such as acceptable keeping of fish, barbless hooks, not bringing in minnows, not stocking fish, cleaning up trash, when the permission to fish expires, and not bringing friends.

In your situation, it sounds as if the pond might already be messed up. And as long as you're not there, these people might keep fishing it, regardless of what you say. Your best bet is probably to just let them fish the piss out of it (perhaps without friends), but charge them to cover the cost of you stocking some fish for them to catch in a put-and-take fashion: maybe CC, HBG, and HSB, possibly RBT in the winter? If they're going to fish the pond to hell, you may as well break close to even financially and be relatively assured that they're not dumping in crappie or using goldfish as bait. If they're paying for fish to go in, even if not full cost, I bet that the number of friends they bring over will hit zero rapidly.

I don't know what it is with ponds, but people seem to think they're an unlimited resource and that pond owners are jerks if they don't let people fish. I wouldn't expect a rancher to let me go mess with his cattle or take some without paying for them.

LMB have a lure memory. I fish one of the ponds I manage in a gated community heavily. First year I caught 5 fish limit over 30 lbs. Lots of fish over 5 lbs. Soon it was a rarity, after a few years it was luck getting one per day. The water is crystal clear so I can see the fish investigate the lure, and turn away. I'll rotate through different lures to whatever they happen to hit on then. Sometimes it's seasonal. But through management I boosted the numbers of fish. Where I was really working to catch 30 lmb and release them, last year I set a record for that pond for myself with 60 c and r lmb to 3 lbs. The bg and res are even worse. Before I'd catch 15-20 per day. Now sometimes none. But I don't fish for them either has they tend to take the bait too deep and I just don't want to injure them.

I have a strict code of ethics, my kids only. I have seen too many people just ruin ponds because they just don't care. I saw a guy catch a nice 3 lber, and yell to his kids while he threw it about 50 feet in the air back in the pond. They leave trash everywhere. They put bad fish in, take good fish out. To be honest, they make the ponds unmanagable. I'll catch fish with giant 3/0 hooks broke off inside thier throats. I get out the hemostats and gently remove them. I've found bass dead on floating plastic bottles rigged with hooks. It just sickens me.

No matter what you do, charge as a pay per play or an annual membership those people will feel entitled to act like fools. And if you charge by pound you have to live there and watch them. I'd kick them all out. Close the fishing totally. Let the fishery recover and then and only then let people back in with very strict rules. Or not at all. People just take advantage of good natured guys.

I have noticed first hand of what you are worried about. The pond I manage for my friend had amazing fishing for the first 3 years until he started letting people fish it too often. I knew the fish where still there I would see huge bass, crappie, and bluegill, but they became much harder for people to catch. I told him to not let so many people fish there as I knew this was hurting the 2 acre pond. We'll have to see how the fishing is in the spring to see if it helped any.

Jimmy, the kind of guy your farmhand is kind of irks me. He invites his buddies, without asking you, to come and help themselves. Next, the buddies will invite their buddies. It is a vicious cycle. I would let the renter keep fishing with one caveat. He has to keep others out. If you want to let the farmhand fish, that is OK too, but NOT his buddes. Personally, I wouldn't let somebody who thinks like the farmhand ever fish again. He should have asked before letting others fish. They will sue your A$$ off at their first opportunity, if something happens. You owe his buddies fishing rights, so you owe them other things if something happens.

As far as the pressure goes, it all depends on the lake and your fishing ability. They can handle a lot of pressure, if the pond/lake is fertile. In some ways, on a bass pond, I consider pressure good and I prefer it on my father's pond. These catfish guys and fishing idiots aren't going to catch many bass on there zebco 33's and ultralights, if there is some pressure. Therefore, they won't be hauling out many 5-8 lbers on rooster tails and beetle spins. If you are a moderate to good bass fisherman, you'll still catch plenty, but they won't jump in your boat.

Sorry to chime in so late. Just catching up a bit.

Where've you been, Robinson?

Glad you found your way back.

I'm kind of waiting for a similar situation to occur with my pond. It's going to be the first spring it is full and stocked. I have had a couple of friends mention wanting to fish, etc... I've been pretty much upfront about it with them that I am spending some decent money to stock and maintain it, and that it is pretty much a family destination at this point.

I think I am going to pretty much hold to that point with just about most folks so it isn't abused and overfished. I've got some large farmers around me and some have young kids. I am willing to work with them for some hunting privileges if they want to "Swap".

For the most part, I think folks understand if you explain it to them. I've got about 13k invested in mine at the moment with construction, windmill, fish, and letting just anyone fish defeats the purpose. There are plenty of public waters if they are that hard up.

I'm with the others that honesty is the best policy on it.

I agree with you. To keep the fish from becoming conditioned, I limit my own fishing.

It doesn't take long for most species of fish to get conditioned... Particularly in ponds under 5 acres.