ok, i will try and make this long story short. last year when i stocked my pond there was a heavy rain 2 days later. the pond never went over e-spillway but was lots going out the pipe. i set 2 minnow baskets down stream and caughts lots of what i thought were little bg. i hurried up and put them back in my pond. some were caught at the 2'x3' hole of water where the water comes out of my pipe.. playing around a few months ago, i set the baskets again in the stream below the pond and caught several gsf. i thought at the time they were bg and i put them in my pond. with the help of some of you guys i have discovered they are gsf, not bg. right now we are getting a huge rain and lots of water is going out of the pipe. my little minnow baskets are filling up with fish. the larger ones look like gsf, but i cant exactly tell about the little 1" ones. where are all the gsf coming from? is my pond full of them? is it their nature to follow the fast current? i am catching them right at my pipe. can you all help me identify the 1" fish??

Scott69 GSF are notorious for moving upstream to populate new areas. What have you put in your pond (BG , LMB etc) and when and what size?

GSF will ascend streams so small you could easily jump across them if not just step across them.

I think too much of a big deal is made when GSF are found in a pond. In a pond already established with BG and LMB, GSF quickly become outnumbered and within a few years are almost absent. Manage your BG and LMB correctly and the GSF will have little to any affect on your pond.

I have manged ponds that initially only had 1000's of GSF in them. Within 5 years are stocking LMB and BG, the GSF were rarely even seen anymore.

WE ARE THE GSA. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED.

SUBSTITUTE GSA FOR BORG IN THIS VIDEO CLIP AND YOU WILL HAVE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF OUR INTENTION.

the pond is about 9 months old. stocked with about 1000 bg and 80 bass.

do you thinbk the fish are leaving my pond thru the 12" standpipe or are they like trout and racing up stream when the heavy rains come. either which way, my basket catch lots of gsf after heavy rains even without bait. i am gonna try and take a pic later today of the little ones so maybe yall can help me identify them positively!!

thanks for the replies

Put the trap in the pond and see what you get.

i have tried that before and never caught a thing. i have heard that you can use the clear plastic type in still water, but not the wire type.

I am betting they are as you said "like trout and racing up stream when the heavy rains come." GSF are able to survive in the smallest of streams and handle pretty fast currents. Post the pic, we'll let you know what you got!

scott69, try using beef liver in your traps, works for me. all my pond traps are wire or plastic mesh.

I am SO glad there is another Star Trek nerd out there...you're right JHAP - resistance IS futile!

I am Locutus.

i hope you all can see the pics. i am new to posting pics. the larger is surely a gsf. the smaller has vertical bars. is that just a young gsf or, are they bg?

Congratulations Scott! You have yourself a bunch of little GSF... And it looks like a couple of those larger ones are immature longear sunfish?

From top to bottom:

First pic, definitely immature GSF

Second pic, larger top fish immature longear but possible dollar sunfish second smaller fish definitely immature GSF

Third pic, larger top fish again an immature longer but possible dollar sunfish and the bottom two are immature GSF.

Immature longear sunfish and dollar sunfish can be very difficult to tell apart. If this stream you are collecting from is a small headwater, then I would suggest the fish is most likely an immature longear sunfish.

Check out the eye coloration and size to body ration on the the ones I said were longears(eye is reddish and larger) and then compared them to the GSF. Also look at the caudal fin shape. The longear has a more pronounced fork to the tail while the GSF tail is more rounded. You also notice in a couple of the GSF they are starting to get the tell tale orangish tinge to the edge of their tail. The immature longears have not developed the opercle flap "ear" yet...

you are blessed scott.

cj, i become more and more impressed w/ yer vast knowledge bank.

i have read where gsf are undesireable in a pond. what about the longears and dollar sunfish?
is it common for them to go down the pipe during heavy rains?

When you say down the pipe, are you referring to the fish leaving your pond out the outflow pipe into the stream, or up the stream through the outflow pipe into your pond?

GSF are IMO not a big deal. They do not compete well in a LMB/BG pond. They will be present but in low numbers so I wouldn't sweat them.

Longears reach a maximum size of about 10" or so. When they mature they are actually one of the prettiest sunfish species. They are not adapted to pond life so they will in all likelihood not reproduce in your pond. So they shouldn't be a management issue.

Dollar sunfish in many ways are miniature longears reaching a maximum size of about 5". So they provide little angling value. They are adapted to pond life, but I suspect again much like the GSF will be out competed by the BG/LMB and will not be an issue. If anything because of their limited maximum size, they probably will be eaten to extinction in your pond. I am guessing the fish in the picture are longears though...

i am just totaly confused where they are coming from. each time we get a heavy rain they are easy to catch in my minnow traps. when i say down the pipe, i am referring to them going down my standpipe and washing out of the pond. i catch them right where the water is coming out of the pipe.

I would assume they are coming up the creek (drainage) below the pond not out of the pond. Is that possible ?

GSF mostly. Not sure if one of those small ones is a yoy WM.

My guess would be the fish are trying to swim UPSTREAM and cannot handle the force of the outflow and get washed back into your basket.

My guess would be the fish are trying to swim UPSTREAM and cannot handle the force of the outflow and get washed back into your basket.

FWIW, GSF devestae ponds in Missouri and quickly overpopulate then stunt the entire pond population. According to the Mo. Dept. of Conservation, GSF are far too difficult of a prey for LMB to catch and therefore control.

As much as I hate/fear the GSF, they are extremely beautiful, prolific, and voracious.


They are still best used as fertilizer though!

My guess is that they are definitely not coming out of your pond but rather swimming upstream but as ewest said, they just can't quite juice it up enough to get through the pipe and up into the pond itself...

I doubt you have a GSF/longear contamination from them coming upstream but you did say you caught some in your trap and then released them into your pond. So, it looks as though you released some GSF and longears into your pond.

I can tell you the fish I think are longears are definitely not warmouth. There are 4 possible species, longear sunfish, dollar sunfish, redbreast sunfish or orangespotted sunfish but my money is on the immature longear sunfish.

All the named species are native to your area and inhabit small streams except the redbreast which could be introduced into your area. Warmouth are a dark brown yellow color with some reds and yellows and have a MUCH larger mouth than the fish in your pictures.

Rainman, I cannot imagine GSF having the opportunity to contaminate a pond. Maybe in Missouri but certainly not in Texas. I'm fairly neutral on them as forage but see no problem.

Due to lower spawning, they seem to disappear over time. LMB ought to be able to control anything that will fit in their mouth.

If anything I would think LMB would make easier work of them in that they are a bit more elongated and not round like BG are... But I have never seen a study done to see preferences so I cannot say for sure.

Dave, I agree GSF are not likely to be a threat in an establised pond, but as a forage they would not be as good as BG since they compete directly with bass for many more foods. The biggest danger is if a pond is INITIALLY stocked with several GSF since the GSF will quickly overpopulate and eat most LMB fry. IIRC, GSF are faster swimmers than BG causing bass to expend more energy to feed.

here are the pics of the hole of water and pipe where my pond exhaust. also are a few pics of my muddy pond. 4" of rain in the last few days.

I think you will be fine if you contaminated your pond with a few GSF and possibly some some longears. Your pond already has BG and LMB established in it. I have seen many a fine fishing pond with a small population of GSF that most guys don't even know exist. Maybe 1 out of 100 sunfish is a GSF. Hardly an issue... The longear sunfish will definitely not cause an issue. They'll either be eaten or die of old age but will not reproduce in your pond.

Rainman, mine came with the initial hatchery(?)stocking about 8 or 10 years ago. Now, due to natures draw downs and limited spawning, they are gone.
A couple of weeks ago my Grandson and I seined a forage pond. Due to an overflow from the creek, there were some GSF in the seine. I dumped them in without worrying about it. Most of the additions were 1 to 2 inches. I'm sure none lasted long.

Housecleaning.

JHAP they should just make you a moderator, that way you can just get right into the main post and take care of business! HAHA

No way, JHAP would ever become a Mod. To be a Mod, you have to have a high degree of personal integrity.

Well never mind. Sunil and I got in under the wire.

CJBS likely has the ID correct on the small fish from the ditch. The fish are small and "dirty" so positive ID without them "in hand" is pretty difficult. The fish esp the large ones are stunted due to the "oversized" eyes. Long ears and GSF always try to swim up a pipe that is out flowing water. In trying to swim up the pipe they are getting emtrapped in Scott's trap. As Bob has mentioned before, few normally stocked fish (mainly LMB, BG, CC) try to swim out an overflow pipe or out the emergency overflow. In my experience more fish try to get in than out.

The large corporate paycheck and generous fringe benefit package would come in handy. Use of the corporate jet and access to the gilded diet mountain dew drinking fountain. To be able to use the executive bathroom and dining hall. The freedom to change posts at will. To "correct" everyones post to reflect what I believe to be their true feelings and intentions. The unbridled, unrestricted ability to delete heretical blasphemy and to punish the violator. The option to change the posting policies to include corporal punishment. Ahhhhh, the power, the vast limitless power I could wield.

Yea, that'll never happen.

We can all have dreams and aspirations though, can't we?

You would need to distinguish between the DMD fountain and the executive wash room. Plus, no trips on the PB Space Shuttle until after Cody is done with it.

Smooooooth!