Well, I discussed this a bit with Blaine after the story broke at the PB convention '08. I'm not going to drop the entire bomb on you. I want Blaine to come in and fill in the entire storyline. I think he's holding back cuz he wants to offer pictorial documentation. That can come in time. I believe what you saw with your own eyes, Blaine.
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Blaine witnessed a bird at his pond that picked up a fish and flew it over to another tiny body of water and deposited it...healthy and alive. He has the details that will answer all the questions that will come. I hope he picks this thread up and fills in the blanks. (I will PM him).
After he told me this story, we had a small gathering of pondmeisters in the hall at the convention. We discussed it further. Then, Dan Van Schaik walked by and I grabbed him to join our discussion. Dan knew right where we were going before Blaine could get even 1/2 way into his story. Dan, said, without a shadow of a doubt, that he is certain that birds stock void bodies of water to create new sustainance. He told a story of the trout farm ponds he visited in England. They had strange little traps around the ponds. He asked them why. They said that it traps and kills the Kingfishers. He said that he didn't think that a few trout for dinner for a Kingfisher should be worth the trapping effort. They told him it was because the Kingfishers make constant trips to gather live trout and carry them away. They said that the trap design was from the 1800's and they still use the same design for the same reason. Dan also noted seeing GBH (or maybe it was pelican...can't remember) picking up live fish, and instead of pointing the head to the gullet, would flip it sideways and fly away, presumably to stock or feed. I can't stress enough how adamant he was of the certainty that birds stock ponds.
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Calling Blaine!!!!

Brettski, I don't really have an opinion on whether birds deliberately transfer fish, but I will say that the idea should not be scoffed at. If ants can transport leaves to nurture fungus gardens, I certainly think birds transferring fish is plausible. Nature has evolved some very complex behavioral schemes for survival. Transferring fish is a relatively very simple behavior. If it's proven some day, I won't be a bit surprised. That would make a very interesting doctoral thesis for a biology or zoology student.

I think birds do as well . Only for the simple fact is that we have alot of small run off ponds beside overpasses and beside grocery stores and all over and you can see fish hit top water . I have stoped by these places here in south carolina and the birds may stock but the ponds you can tell that the bass are hungry and starved . I asked city guys about this and they said they do not stock ponds like that and only put FHM in there to control bugs . Just thought i would share that info .

I want to go on record as always having been ready to accept the idea of birds stocking ponds intentionally, or maybe a better word is instinctively. Birds do a lot of complex behaviors.

Now about those eggs sticking to bird feet....

Interesting, I though I was the only guy around here that enjoyed fungus gardens.

Carry on.

I may be repeating myself but I know of a guy that runs one of the largest goldfish farms in the country and he believes birds are responsible for transferring fish. This facility has 200 ponds and they raise some unique gold fish they ship all over the country and possibly the world. Anyway he says one of the private ponds in the are have these fish and they were never sold locally. He can only explain it by the herons that visit regularly. They get so many heron visits they have learned to live with it.

BTW the place is called Ozark Fisheries and it's located in Martinsville, Indiana. It has a sister fish farm in Missouri.

if they do transport fish it must only be short distance unless they have livewells

KYB,that's more or less true depending on the species of fish in question. I've seen some fish last a long time out of water.

This topic came up outside at the convention too.Im a believer.I also heard someone(cant remember who)Say that after a brief shower they saw hundreds of baby fry on the ground.I saw this happen once in Miss when I lived on the coast and a friend of mine(old old friend IE80+)told me the eggs could stay airborne in a watercloud while they hatched and grew to 1/2 in.?????????
Didnt know weather to believe him or not but...I did see the fish in my pasture one day!

Sorry for the delay, I was entertaining all weekend. Brettski tells it like it was. I saw the Kingfisher transfer one FHM with my own two eyes. The second body of water was approx. 30' from the main body of water. It was the size of a Bobcat bucket as it was accidentally made by one. By chance the "puddle" was 20' down and in the direct path of run-off from a spring which kept it full for several days after a rain. I started noticing multiple FHM in this puddle and couldn't figure out how this was possible until I saw it with my own two eyes. The fish lover that I am, I of course scooped them (about 15) out with a net and deposited them back where they belonged. The next day they had returned (about 6-7 of them). A couple of days later after no rain, the puddle dried up along with at least 15 crispy FHM. This cycle has happened twice that I am sure of but I have only seen the Kingfisher deposit one FHM.

Brettski, I have not pursued video evidence to this point because I had forgotten that I filled that depression in with a rented Bobcat a couple of weeks before the PB conference. I have considered redigging but just haven't taken the time. If catching this Kingfisher behavior on video is of great significance then OK. All of your feedback will determine.

I have seen many scrub jays bury peanuts for later, why not fish? At least it sounds reasonable.

Why would a scrub jay bury a fish?

Gee, it seemd clear to me, sorry, kingfisher saves food for later.

I think it would be significant. Heck if you could document that this Kingfisher is purposefully dropping fish into a body of water I think that would be very significant. Of course you would probably have to check with Bill Cody or one of our other resident scientists to determine what kind of control measures would need to occur in order to make the determination valid. I don't know perhaps digging multiple small ponds to see if the Kingfisher stocks each one.

I don't doubt that you observed this behavior. Heck it wasn't that many years ago that we believed only humans used tools and that tool use was a disguishing factor (probably not the correct terminology) between man and animals. Then some wise cracking Chimps were observed making a branch into a termite retreiving devise and whammo (like the sound effects?) suddenly we learned that certain animials also make and use tools.

We are constantantly learning about nature and I would imagine that animials in nature are constantly modifying their behavior to survive.

But what do I know I'm only a bean counter.

Yeah but do they eat fish?

Dan Van Schaik noted that video evidence would be significant. I don't know, Blaine....sounds too Nat-Geo to me.

GW,
The ones in my neighborhood may catch and release, I see them eat some on the spot and carry other fish away. I thought that they were feeding young, but I guess they could be stocking ponds.

Get some video evidence. I believe that fish do stock waters intentionally due to instinct.

Rad, my comments are a failed joke. It's not even worth explaining.

Here's the video I posted in a previous thread about birds stocking ponds. It's not directly about fish but it suggests that birds have the ability to think ahead in a way that would make intentional fish stocking possible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGPGknpq3e0

GW,
I thought so but wasn't sure, I have seen a similar video, crows are amazing.
I have a friend who fed a jay peanuts which it promply buried in the friends yard. Soon a squirrel moved in and after the jay buried the peanut the squirrel would dig it up and eat it. The jay countered by pretending to bury the nut and while the confused squirrel was looking for it, the jay hid the nut in another location.

One other thing about you post is that I will, now, always wonder if that little kingfisher is stocking or feeding.

Crows are amazing. A few years ago I started finding bird body parts in our birdbath. Legs, ribs, and organs. It went on for days. Then steak and porkchop bones began appearing. Couldn't figure out where this stuff was coming. Turns out, after watching more closely, a couple of crows were bringing it in, soaking the stuff, and then eating it. I kept the birdbath dry for the rest of the summer and they never came back.
To add to the topic of birds bringing fish to the pond, while raking dead cattails from around the pond, we came up with a clam, about 5" long. Unfortunatly, it was missed while seaching for fish during the pond raking and had dried up. No legs, so he didn't walk in for dip!

Tom, more than likely the clam or mussel came in at stocking time as a parasite. Not at all unusual.

Heard this in the radio. Scientists have, for years, been trying to figure out how water fleas appeared in new ponds. They can't live out of water. Mystery solved. They caught about 50 back swimmers flying thru the air going from one water hole to another. They had flea eggs on them.

I guess it is theoretically possible for birds to spread fish but, until the stork starts delivering human babies, I will never believe it.

DD1, isn't the behavior of the crow in the video I posted as complex as moving fish from one pond to another? It seems even more complex to me.

Yep, it is the same, to me, as animals that use tools. And, there is nothing new or unusual about animals having learned behavior.

However, in this case, it isn't only about birds but fish or egg survival. Also, I do not believe in any animals husbandry.

I have actually experimented with this stuff. We went to a local flea market and bought a duck. Admittedly, it was one lousy duck and not a huge number of different kinds of ducks for proper sampling. We killed it and tried to get BG eggs to attach to either the feet or feathers. BTW, killing the duck was easy compared to scooping up and handling the BG eggs. Anyway, the eggs didn't stick to either the feet or feathers. I guess the argument could be made that I'm not as good as Mama Nature when it comes to mixing eggs with fish and feathers. And I guess some could say that fish eggs only attach to live ducks. But, I don't know of anyone else who is dumb enough to try it and I doubt that I'll try it again. Heck, even if they had stuck, the odds get pretty skinny regarding the eggs actually hatching and becoming fish.

DD,
A couple of thoughts, ducks don't usually eat fish so the connection might be a little more remote than a heron for example. Also, BG might not be a good example, if there is animal husbandry, they might start by building the food chain with a hardy forage fish. Maybe a certain species of fish lay eggs with a protective coat allowing them to pass through a certain bird.

In my neighborhood there are fish that walk from one pool to another. The more I pay attention the more I, at least think, I learn. Though, paying attention seems to get harder the older I get.

Dang Rad, that idea of a protective coat will keep me from drinking any more creek water.

10/4 on the attention span; what were we discussing?

you might be a pondmeister if...........

Who? Me?

I am guessing that what is found in the water in my neighborhood is what makes those fish walk.

DD1, I'm on record as a disbeliever in the transferal of fish eggs on bird feet. I'm also skeptical about accidentally dropped fish being a common way for nature to stock ponds. Birds instinctively carrying fish to adjacent ponds seems more reasonable. The odds are too great with accidental dropping of fish, but if it's intentional then the behavior might be repeated dozens of times allowing at least one survivor of each sex to establish in the new pond.

I just love the image of you trying to stick fish eggs to a dead duck. Thank you for that.

GW, if you're talking about quick, mass stocking, I totally agree. It would take months to many years to stock a void pond by accidentally dropping fish, depending on the proximity of the void pond to stocked waters. If the void pond is isolated enough, it may never be stocked, even by 1 lonely minnow.

I have observed accidental dropping of fish, and I have observed deliberate dropping of fish. The deliberate dropping incidents were "muggings". A bird catches a fish, and gets mugged by another bird. To avoid injury and to lighten itself, the fish carrying bird simply drops the fish.

I agree on the egg thing. While certainly possible, it's not likely. I'm sure it happens somewhere in the world several time a day, but only because there are millions of birds, fish, and ponds in existence.