I have access to an electrofishing boat that the state uses for its bass surveys of lakes. Our main objective is to better understand the population distribution of bass and forage fish. We want to manage the lake for trophy size bass. I am shooting for +10 lbs.

Does anyone have any procedures for conducting electrofishing surveys?

Here are some of my questions.

What time of year is the best time to conduct electrofishing surveys?
Do you go around the lake one time (12 acre lake, see picture in signature)?
I assume you catch all the species that come up?
What data do you record? I assume length, weight, girth, and species.

Here is some background. The lake is located in North East Oklahoma. Our main objective is to increase the number and size of the big bass, most of our bass our 12” or less. We have not caught many bass in the 1.5 lbs to 3 lbs range. We have caught 19 bass over 3 lbs with a max of 6 lbs 1 oz. The property was previously owned by an older couple that never fished and did not let anyone fish the lake, EVER. They watched it like a hawk.

I think electrofishing would be a good way to get a better handle on the fish situation in that 12 acres of yours.

Do you have access to an experienced operator as well as the boat? In addition to knowing the ins and outs of getting a good survey, running an electrofishing boat has additional hazards not present in regular boating.

I do know all species do not electrofish equally. IIRC catfish are usually under-represented.

Ok-12 email me if you like and I can get you our data sheet, years in the making but without proper interpretation of the data it is useless. We are not as scietntifc as in the past b.c confuses clietns but electrofishign in the right hands is abotu as good a tool as a pond manager has. Sounds/looks like a great place.

From your intitial description of catching a lot of 12" LMB, that would be a tell-tale sign of bass overcrowding and most likely a lack of forage base.

It's been discussed a good bit on the forum, so I'm just summarizing without a lot of detail (as well as guessing on your situation).

If you do an electrofishing survey (safely, or with a pro), you might just want to be removing as many LBM under a certain size limit, as well as any other fish that won't contribute to trophy LMB.

Have you bought Lusk's book, Raising Trophy Bass?

Copy and Paste did not work so well, emailed to you. Good Luck if you need further advice let me know.
ELECTROFISHING/WATER QUALITY DATA SHEET
Project Name: Electroshock time (secs): Cond.:
Volts: Amps:
Date & Time: Weather Conditions: F
Address: Hardness: Alkalinity:
pH: Visibility:
Email: D.O. at C %
Species Length Number Comments
Reproduction: Poor Good Excellent
BG 3-4”
BG 4-5”
BG 5-7”
BG 7-9”
BG >9”
Reproduction: Poor Good Excellent
RE 3-4”
RE 4-5”
RE 5-7”
RE 7-9”
RE >9”
Reproduction: Poor Good Excellent
LMB 4-8”
LMB 8-10”
LMB 10-12”
LMB 12-14”
LMB 14-18”
Length Weight Wr Length Weight Wr Other Species Length

Fish Codes: LMB-largemouth bass, BG-bluegill, RE-shellcracker, GS-green sunfish, CR-crappie, CC-channel catfish, CM-common carp, MF-mosquitofish, GD-golden shiners, TS-threadfin shad, GZ-gizzard shad, HB-hybrid bream, RB-redbreast, CP-Pickeral, BF-Bowfin, WM-warmouth, BB-Brown Bullhead, YP- yellow perch, SS- sucker, WS- hybrid bass

When is the best time of year to perform a elctrofishing survey?

Spring or Fall when surface water temps are 60-80.

I am planning on getting an electrofishing survey on my lake in Oklahoma. It is located north of Tulsa about 25 miles. Can anyone help in finding someone to perform the survey. References would be great.

I also created a pretty cool excel file for tracking catch info. It will give you % relative weight for bluegill, sunfish, and bass. It will also calculate weight of bass and crappie removed. And will calculate catch rate in bass per angler per hour. If anyone would like it I will email it to them. I will try to figure out how to post an excel file.

If you want to convert it into an image file, to be posted like a photo, you can copy the excel data either directly (highlight what you want and right-click to copy it) or indirectly (send the screen image into the buffer with the "Print Screen" button) and paste it into an image manipulation prgram (Microsoft Paint works) and then save it there.

I am scheduled for a electrofishing survey March 29th. I will post the data, pictures and videos.

sweet. I would love to have one done on my pond in some ways..in other ways I might not want to see what's in there and the mystery of a lunker or something.

Who is going to do the electroshock? See if they will give you a ride. It's a blast.

dunnsfishfarm.com is going to do the survey. They said no problem to letting us ride with them. I am looking forward to it.

Take a lot of pictures please.

Number one rule is to stay in the boat. That's also the second and third rule.

I see that 60 deg water temperature is recommended for a Electrofishing survey. Does the water temperature need to be above 60 deg all of the time, or are we ok to do the survey if the water gets to 60 deg during the day. Or does the water temp just need to be 60 deg when the survey is performed. I don't want to waist money on a survey if the water is to cold. I am also concerned that if we wait to long we may get into the spawning season. Any suggestions or testimonials.

You want it that temp b/c that is when lots of fish come shallow, thus you get more fish at that time of year via electrofishing. If spawning I do not think that is a big deal. We have extremely low mortalities, if you mess up spawn with a few bass might be a good thing. Bluegill will not spawn until mid April or later I would suspect. A good cold snap with night temps of 40's will push bass back deeper this is why except in south GA we usually wait until mid March and really start cranking in April, some of you yankess may not get that temp until June.

We did our survey last weekend. I am waiting on the report, but we defiantly have a greater then 5 to 1 Redear to LMB ratio. I have graphed my bass fishing data and the survey data. I get a very good correlation between my 2008 fishing data and the 2008 Electrofishing survey. Except the survey sampled the smaller fish that we do not catch.

I think catch data is a good way to keep track of your LMB population and it is a lot cheaper. It is a little work keeping track of everything but in the end I think it is worth it. It was definitely a good experience ridding on the survey boat. But I don't think we will need an additional electrofishing survey for a while.

Here is my 2008 fishing data broken into a 1" distribution.

Here is the 2008 Electrofishing Survey broken into a 1" distribution

Here is my 2008 Relative Weight graph. The 2008 fishing data is the black dots and the 2008 Electrofishinging survey is the red dots.

Your creel survey looks to track very close to the e-fish results, with the exception of LMB under 10". I think I agree that it is a pretty good measure of the bass population.

Have you come to any conclusion re the BG/Forage ratio to the predators?

Great graph work OK 12 !!! It will be interesting to see what the written report says and what others here provide. I have a comment but will wait on the others first.

Here is one comment (hint) assuming you don't have the same graphs/info for the BG/RES. See if you think it fits. Slide the scale back 11-12 inches and the numbers match your BG/RES size distribution (not what you catch but what the survey shows). Lots of small 1-3 in BG and not so many 3-5 in BG (another hint).

ok 12 looks good 100% agree with you, with good catches records electro will show little 'bout the bass you did not already know. I do like electro for bluegill, how did your bluegill graph out? I look at that sometimes harder than bass b/c it will tell you what is goign on. 9/10 times I can guess really close on bass size distribution and Wr by looking at a graph of bluegill size distribution. IMHO when you hire someone to shock the lake you are paying for the advice they give you, not just the data they collect, so what were recommendations?
Ewest I missed your post, yep agree with your hints.

The advice should have provided that you need to harvest some more of the 10-12in size LMB. Was that addressed?

Still no report. I was supposed to get it last week. I am starting to wish I would have just used Greg Grimes. We also did not get any length or weight data on the forage fish. I wish we would have. I was the one that drove getting all the lengths and weights of the bass. But then again we only had a little over 200 bass to weigh and measure vs thousands of forage fish. I don’t think we would have got the bass data if I did not say I wanted it and had the scales to do it.

At the beginning we were netting ever fish that came up. This is when we should have got the forage fish data. We had a lot of fish and after filling up the tanks we stopped netting the forage fish and only netted bass. So this first group would not have been a representation of the entire lake but it would have been a size distribution that I think would have represented the lake.

Of course I am an engineer and the more data you have the better. The surveyor did inspect all the fish that we netted and looked for health, parasites, age, etc, but no hard numbers on the forage fish. There was definitely a gap in the 3-5" range with most of the readears being bigger. But there were a lot of them. He verbally recommended that a feeding program was not needed due to the numbers of forage fish. He mentioned something about stocking some coppernose. We did not shock any up.

This is a little off subject but we also had fish that looked like a cross between a readear and a crappie. We only shocked up a few crappie but I know we have a lot more. They were just not up in the shallow water when the survey was performed. We have caught quite a few crappie in the past. We did shock up one that was 2 lbs.

Overall the experience was a good one. We all enjoyed riding the boat and netting the fish. The Surveyor was very nice and did not try to push and lot of products on us; so far, I have not received his report.

If I thought I could make money at it I would love to do these surveys. I find that the answers are always in the numbers. If you collect enough data and the correct data the answer will always show it’s self.

Take for example the bass shock distribution data and my fishing data. I now feel confident that we can represent the bass population with fishing data. I and bet we can do the same for the forage fish. I am thinking about have a yearly fishing day for all the friends and family to come out with the kids and catch forage fish. I bet if you have them catch a few hundred fish you would get your size distribution graphs.

In closing, I am glad I spent the $1000 for the survey. Probable should have used Greg Grimes for a little more money or should have requested more data on the forage fish. All in all it was a good experience.

Ok 12 thanks for the kind words. In your defense I was not 100% sure I was going to MS or not. Turns out I did go on May21 in fact got to have lunch with Eric West. He paid even though I wanted to, nicest guy I have ever met. Anyway your cost would have been about $1,300 b/c another 500 miles to Tulsa. Too bad on not getting the bluegill/redear data. We only weigh a few but do try and get lots of lengths on them. It tells me quite a bit. I would suggest you pull a seine if you know how. This might help give you a better picture of the bluegill, other forage and might indicate if you had a crappie spawn.

Did you pay them? I send an invoice along with the report. Probably bad business on my part not getting the money but it has only burned me once. I do this partly because it motivates me (to do the report more timely), but again I think the report is mainly what your paying for. However with your knowledge I think you learned a lot from seeing the fish. I too run behind on reports and just today finished the clients in MS, so it took nearly three weeks. I hope they get it to you but good to hear they were not overselling. Having said I might have rec. feeding if you wanted larger bluegill to catch and other reasons. Did they conduct water quality analysis? Quite a bit or our reports make mention of water quality, liming, fertilizing, weed control, aeration, dam improvements, etc. not just fish mgmt. Good luck and if ever driving that far wet I will let you know. Thanks for keeping us up to date.

I have already paid. I am not wanting to catch larger bluegill. I don't think he performed any water quality test. But we are having a good bloom now.

I am still glad I got the survey even if I don't get a report, but I now know more things to ask before my next survey.

In a good report you should get Data Summary (presented in as simple of terms as possible), Management Recommendations (enhance water quality [liming, fertilizing, turbidity control], vegetation removal or addition, stocking, fish harvest guidelines, feeding, etc.), including how to do it all, and a Timeline for work to be done. We inventory vegetation, sample water chemistry looking at 10 or so parameters, dip all fish coming up, weigh & measure each bream over 6", count all forage and weigh a sub-sample, weigh and measure all bass and catfish, length frequency of bass, bluegill and redear, and perform length to weight analysis on bluegill, redear, channel catfish and bass. You can't just look at fish; the ecosystem (fish, water, habitat, lake surroundings, etc.) is what should be evaluated. Never pay full amount up front, they should ask for a deposit (25-33%) when they arrive to electrofish, but the bulk should be paid upon receiving your report. Generally two reports should be provided - one for the property owner and one for Land Manager. In this case it sounds like you are both. Reports we do take about three weeks, not because they take that long, just because of the numbers of reports we have to do at one time. Getting reports out as fast as possible is important, because landowners and/or managers want them yesterday. The more data collected the longer it should take. The other thing to look out for is a company over-recommending their products. There are many companies out there that really don't do a good job evaluating and charge less for it than the more thorough companies; because they sell things they hope you will buy from them, one of the biggest products being fish. Sounds like you already have a good knowledge of aquatic ecosystems and fish management, so you should do just fine! Good luck, and enjoy the lake!

I finally got my report. It was only a month late (he sent it to my old work address). I can see it taking a while to get the report together. That was until I saw the report. It is copied below my text.

Greg, it was what I was afraid it was going to be. It is a nice document. It has some good info and definitions. But no site specific recommendations. This is just a generic report. I also go not water quality data.

I would not recommend Dunn’s Fish Farm. Let me clarify. If you want to get an Electrofishing survey only, he is perfect. He was a very nice guy. He let us all ride the boat. We shocked up a lot of fish. But as far as the data collection and recommendation, not what I was wanting.

My recommendations: Ask for some examples of past job reports. Ask to make sure you will be getting the stuff you want. I was planning on asking all these questions the day of the survey, but I was exited to be on the boat and shocking up all these fish. I am partly to blame. I should have stated my expectations before awarding the bid to them. Greg, I will be giving you a call the next time I do a survey.


Dunn’s Fish Farm Electrofishing Survey Bellow

Stock assessment is an important part of maintaining a productive fishery. It gives managers an insight to the status of a fishery and the possible outcomes of management actions. By sampling your lake or pond you allow us to make informed decisions about your goals for your fishery. Whether you want a Trophy Bass lake or a place you can take your kids to catch some Bluegill, Stock assessment is a very good idea.

Below is a list of terms and relevant information regarding your pond that was recently surveyed by Dunn’s Fish Farm personnel. If you have any further questions regarding your survey please feel free to contact us at 1-800-433-2950 or visit our website at http://www.dunnsfishfarm.com

Catch Per Unit Effort (CPUE) – (number of fish caught in a defined period of effort (hrs)) C.P.U.E. is a measure of a species relative abundance. Low C.P.U.E. is a sign that your fish population may need some supplemental stocking to ensure a healthy, productive fishery. High C.P.U.E. indicates that you may need to harvest some fish to maintain your productive fishery.

Age Structure – (number captured per age group) This allows us to ensure that the population is reproducing and no major mortality has occurred in the past. If there is a large number of fish missing in an age cohort, supplemental stocking may be recommended for that particular age cohort. Ideally the age structure should be high for young fish and decline as the population ages.

Age-Growth – (average length of fish in age class) Fish with adequate food are expected to be a certain length at a certain age. The Age-Growth ratio allows us to determine if there is an ample amount of forage available. Stunted fish are usually a result of insufficient food supply. This can be corrected by stocking forage species of fish in your lake or pond.

Proportional Stock Density (PSD) - is calculated by the following formula:
PSD = (number fish > quality length* / number of fish) x 100

Relative Stock Density (RSD) - is calculated by the following formula:
RSD-p** = (number fish > preferred length* / number of fish) x 100

* (size fish as defined below)
** (p = preferred, m = memorable, t = trophy.)


Relative Weight (Wr) – (the ratio of the weight of a fish in the sample to what a rapidly growing healthy fish of the same length should weigh) Fish with high relative weights are fat while those with low relative weights are thin. When average Wr values are well below 100 for a size group, problems exist in food and feeding relationships. When average Wr values are well above 100 for a size group, fish may not be making the best use of available prey.




C.P.U.E.

Species Number
White Crappie N/A
Black Crappie N/A
Bluegill Medium
Coppernose Medium
Largemouth Bass Medium
Channel Catfish Low



Water Quality

A productive pond starts with good quality water. At Dunn’s Fish Farm we provide water testing to aid in our analysis of your pond or lake. Most Lake Management problems can be traced back to water quality, which is why it is important to ensure that these parameters are in the acceptable ranges. Below is a list of tests that we have selected dealing with major water quality issues. When we visit your lake, we will run the necessary tests on site and bring back a water sample for further analysis. Water quality is an important aspect of Lake Management and the key to unlocking a healthy, productive pond.


Acidity – Acidity refers to the ability of water to donate Hydrogen ions. Several factors can contribute to the acidity of your pond. These can range from air pollution to the type of vegetation surrounding your pond. Acidity is important because most fish can’t tolerate water that is too acidic and a stressful environment leads to stressed fish.

Alkalinity – Alkaline water contains a high concentration of carbonates, bicarbonates and hydroxides. Alkalinity, like acidity, is important because most fish can’t tolerate water that is too alkaline. High alkalinity can be treated with lime.

pH – pH is a measure of the hydrogen ion concentration. The scale is from 0(very acidic) to 14(very basic), with 7 being neutral. pH fluctuates during a 24 hr period due to the photosynthesis of plants in the pond. A pH close to neutral is desirable and steps should be taken to keep it close to this level.

Hardness – The total concentration of Calcium and Magnesium is expressed in hardness. There is a strong correlation between water hardness and productivity. Treatment plans may be necessary when levels are too low to increase productivity.

Ammonia – Ammonia is an important part of the Nitrogen cycle of your pond and is the main product excreted by fish. Un-ionized Ammonia (Ammonium) is extremely toxic to fish. pH and temperature regulate the proportions of these two compounds.

Nitrite – Nitrite is the next step in the Nitrogen cycle. It is usually not found in high concentrations but can be acutely toxic to fish when levels get too high.

Chloride - Some sources of chloride are salt containing minerals, runoff form salted roads, irrigation runoff, mixing of sea water with freshwater, chlorinated drinking water, and water softener regeneration.

Carbon Dioxide – Fish can tolerate high levels of Carbon Dioxide, if high levels of Dissolved Oxygen are also present. Levels of this gas will fluctuate during a 24 hr periods due to photosynthesis of plants.

Dissolved Oxygen – This is one of the most important factors in maintaining a healthy pond. Photosynthesis or diffusion from gasses in the atmosphere provides oxygen in your pond. Low concentrations of Dissolved Oxygen can be harmful to all aquatic life. Use of an Aerator is recommended for ponds that have constant problems with low Dissolved Oxygen



Test Acceptable Range Level

Acidity
Alkalinity 10-400 ppm
pH 6.0 - 8.0
Hardness 10-400 ppm
Ammonia 0.5 - 2.0 ppm
Nitrite 0.1 mg/l in soft water
Chloride
Carbon Dioxide 5 - 20 ppm
Dissolved Oxygen 5 ppm to saturation

Vegetation

Your pond is a complex relationship between producers and consumers. At the bottom of the food chain are plants. A healthy pond should have some kind of vegetation as a food source for primary consumers and also to provide cover for fish. However, aquatic vegetation can quickly become a problem if left un-checked. Below is a list of aquatic vegetation species. Items highlighted were identified in you pond. If we believe the plants are overpopulating, a solution and cost estimate will be provided.

Types Problem Treatment Qty Needed Cost
Submerged Algae
Pondweed
Chara
Water Millfoil
Hydrilla
Naiad
Coontail
Other:
Other:

Floating Lilly Pads
Duckweed
Gatorweed
Hyacinth
Watershield
Water meal
Other:
Other:

Emergent Cattail
Primrose
Other:
Other:

Comments and Recommendations:

Bass Spawning: Establishing 6-8 spawning areas 50 to 75 wide in 2-5 feet of water on a gradual slope is recommended. Pea size gravel can be used for the spawning areas. Other methods would be to take 5 gallon bucket of gravel pour in selected locations. Bass will fan out beds in these areas for spawning.

Spawning areas for Minnows: Wooden pallets are recommended. Select 2-3 locations per acre. Pallets should be sunk in 2-4 feet of water. Minnows have a 14 month life cycle and will reproduce 3-4 times in their lifetime.

Fertilizing Program: Fertilizing should be done in Spring when water temperatures stabilize at 60 degrees or better. Granular would be recommended at 7 pounds per acre. Recommended formulation is a 12- 61- 0. Fertilizing can be purchased as needed from our website. Follow up treatments of 2-3 pounds per acre may be needed to establish plankton bloom.

Stocking Rates: Coppernose are recommended because of their higher female population. Bass require a minimum of 5 bluegill to 1 bass. The Coppernose along with minnows will supply the forage base your bass need to gain size and weight.

Recommendations are attached.

Recommended Stocking Amount Size Cost

Minnows
Black crappie
Redear Bream
Coppernose
Largemouth bass
Channel catfish - - -

Summary Cost

Stocking Recommendations
Discount
Vegetation Control

Shocking Charge

Additional Equipment (optional)
ADF75D Solar Panel & Battery

Total Discount
total:

where is the results section? This can not be the total report, did you hide some of the info? Wow, I guess I need to start charging more if this is my competetion, If you have the results please post, they reference this in description so I think they have it somewhere, I'm confused.

I was confused also. That was it. You could send that report to any person in the country. There was no site specific information. I sent him a nasty gram but I dought it will do any good.

Hopefully they will be able to get the info to you. =/

ok 12- can you call them? I too have a methods section (you saw it) but then followed by site specfic collected data. I think they may have made an honest mistake and not attached it. If not then I think you are right to ask for part of your money back. Bummer.

Greg you are being to nice. It is just as possible and more likely (given the facts stated by ok-12)that they either never intended to send a report or forgot about him completely. It looks to me as if , when pressed, they printed a standard form containing no info and sent it to you.

In perspective - I have used at least 7 different fisheries outfits for this type of work and everyone of them provided a complete report with actual data and suggestions. I never asked for a report but one always came and it took about 2 weeks . They often followed the report with a call to see if the reports were received and if there were questions.

I have talked with Dunn's again. The man is out working in Kansas and said the office just sent me what they could find in my file. He said that he has more of a report. I will keep you all updated.