I started wanting to stock some ponds on my ranch last year but never got around to it. I finally ordered some fish this year to put in our biggest pong. The pond is a little over and acre in size and according to a pond size calculator a little over 5 acre feet of water.

I ordered 200 bg fingerlings, 200 channel cats 8"-12" long
2000 fhm, and 10 grass carp. My goal is to purchase bass next year to stock once the bg's have grown some. This pond is just for fun to fish, let the family fish etc.

My question is if I add some bigger catfish will they eat the bg's before they have a chance to grow? I'm thinking off adding maybe ten big catfish to my order to have something big to try and catch this year?

I would recommend against putting in any big catfish as most on here would agree they will just cause you problems.

Thank you

What types of problems do they cause?

I have 5-6 other ponds I could put other fish in too and am open for suggestion.

Once they get about 3 or 4 pounds, they become the ultimate predator. And, they get hook shy very quickly. I still have a couple that I stocked over 10 years ago that I can't catch. If I use a red and white plastic bobber, they slap it with their tails.

Dave thank you for the response. I will rethink adding any big cats. My fish options are very limited out here have to come over 250 miles either direction.

I started harvesting my CC this year at 1.5-2# and they are very tasty. They grow fast (put them in two years ago spring) and put up a good fight. Believe it or not I catch most on a 1/32 oz jig with plastic. Can't seem to catch them when I actually fish for catfish. It may have to do with them being pellet fed. I hope to get most of them out by next fall (not likely but that is the goal) or before they get to about 3#. Probably have taken out about 100 of the original 300 stocked so far(3 acres).

That is the good parts to CC. I have yet to experience the bad things many warn of here on PBF, but I suspect I will learn about it the hard way. They do put on meat fast and economically if it is table fare you want.

Table fare and just fun fishing for friends and family.

They will provide those things.

The advice given to me here on PBF (I had stocked the pond before finding PBF )was to never release a CC after catching it (so they less likely to get hook shy) and try to get them all harvested by the time they reach about 3#.

Wife fillet'd 9 a couple days ago. Really nice fillets. Have a couple waiting in the holding pen right now waiting till we catch some more to clean all at once.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Based on this goal, I think you'd be fine to add some advanced channel catfish, as long as you heed snrub's advice.

Thank you. I do plan to harvest any cc caught.

will bigger ones not eat the small blue gill?

I appologize for asking so many questions and have attempted to search for that answer.

Yes, cats become the apex predator.

I figured that was the case thank you Dave.

My brother just caught an 8# CC in our 2 acre puddle on a 3" roostertail. It had corralled an entire school of 3" BG in the shallows and was chopping them up.

Evidence suggests that catfish are opportunistic feeders and may be the least gape limited of North American freshwater predatos. To better understand the size of prey vulnerable to catfish look at gape dimensions for individuals of various sizes to determine the maximum size prey a catfish can kill based on its gape limitations. I believe results support the assumption that catfish are one of the least gape-limited predators.

Eric, can you expand on this, please? How can a predatory fish be non-gape limited, i.e. how do I eat a cheeseburger taller than my mouth at maximum opening in a single bite?

I've fished some bodies of water wherein the owner said the catfish are uncatchable.

I've caught catfish, and the owner has been in awe.

I think it is a matter of changing up the bait, and presentation. Cheese dogs are awesome, chicken livers sometimes, baitfish with fins clipped to show erratic swimming, and even chumming the area (the day before) such as with rice or other bait.

So if you have catfish you're not landing, try switching up the bait you're using, and don't be afraid to chum prior to attempting to fish. One place for 3 weeks I placed cheese dogs in the same cut that I would then fish with, and 3 weeks later I landed a couple cats on same cheese dogs with the hook buried in the dogs.

ColoCowboy

As many here on the forum know, I have a real love/hate relationship with Channel Cats (AKA CC).

I would say that you may have planted an unbalanced supply of fish in the pond described above.

Two hundred channel catfish is one heck of a lot for a 1-acre/5-acre-foot pond.

Ten grass carp in that size pond, unless it was really overrun with weeds also seems like a lot.

Two hundred fingerling bluegill seems pretty low.

The number of fathead minnows seems OK.

Let's start with the catfish. Maybe I missed it, but I don't think I saw anything about a feeding program. Those catfish are going to need food -- probably your fathead minnows and bluegill -- and their offspring.

You are in about a similar weather area to mine. My catfish will at least double in length and add a lot of weight annually, if fed. I feed mine with floating fish feed. If they don't have that, they will be eating anything else they can find in the pond.

I put in about twenty-five 4-5 inch channel cats each year. Based on empirical data, I assume that about 70-75% make it through the first year. That loss drops slightly until harvesting. By harvest in the third season, I expect to harvest at least 10-15 fish each year that are in the 22-30+ inch range.

That is still a lot of fish poundage to take out each season for parties and dinner. Plus, I'm also taking out bluegill, hybrid bluegill, crappie (not recommended for stocking), redear sunfish, hybrid striped bass, and largemouth bass.

Grass carp are great for keeping weeds down to a minimum. In some cases that is great. In others, it may not be so good. I don't want any weeds or structure in my put-and-take pond. But, I do want places for my small bass and bluegill to hide in my other pond.

I'd like others to pipe in about the bluegill and bass numbers. But, it seems to me like you probably should get a few more bluegill yet this season before you add fingerling bass next year. Those bass are going to need a lot to eat.

Please ask a lot of questions.

Regards,
Ken

Yes many studies show that about catfish (at least the real predatory type like CC , Blue and FHC etc). A big catfish has a huge gape and can eat most any pond fish including large LMB. Here is a bit on an article out of PB Cutting edge some time back on FHC. They are gape limited but because they get real big its a big gape.

North American Journal of Fisheries Management
Article: pp. 198–202

Gape:Body Size Relationship of Flathead Catfish
Joe E. Slaughter IVa,,1 and Brad Jacobsonb
a) Georgia Department of Natural Resources, Wildlife Resources Division, 2065 U.S. Highway 278 SE, Social Circle, Georgia 30025, USA
b) Arizona Game and Fish Department, Region IV, 9140 East 28th Street, Yuma, Arizona 85365, USA

Abstract.

The flathead catfish Pylodictis olivaris is a highly piscivorous ictalurid native to central North America whose range has been extended throughout much of the United States. With this range expansion, many populations of native fishes have experienced declines in the number of individuals due to direct predation by flathead catfish. Previous evidence suggests that flathead catfish are opportunistic feeders and may be the least gape limited of North American freshwater piscivores. To better understand the size of prey vulnerable to flathead catfish, we measured gape dimensions for individuals of various sizes to determine the maximum size prey a flathead catfish can kill based on its gape limitations. Our results show the relationship of total length to horizontal and vertical gape and the relationship of flathead catfish total length to the total lengths of ingestible-sized prey of different body shapes. Furthermore, comparisons of the body depth of three common fish species to the gape dimensions showed that no size of largemouth bass Micropterus salmoides, bluegill Lepomis macrochirus, or gizzard shad Dorosoma cepedianum would preclude predation by flathead catfish. Our results support the assumption that the flathead catfish is one of the least gape-limited piscivores.

See this also

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=416618&page=1

Since I have mulitple ponds would it be better for me to put the cc and fhm in one pond and the bg, maybe redear, fhm, in the other then stock lmb in it the following year?

Just an observation or two from a person that has not really fished that much except for the last couple years.

I have caught a lot more of my CC using typical baits for BG than I have actually using more traditional catfish type baits. Plastic curly tail jigs on a 1/32 oz jig head for example. Of the 15 1.5-2# CC my wife and I have caught in the last couple weeks, 90% were on ultra light tackle jig heads. These are not on a bobber, but are cast and retrieved. In other words an action swimming bait. This tells me that CC are much more aggressive at biting swimming active fish type baits than I ever imagined. I always viewed CC as lumbering slow moving fish on the bottom scrounging around for what they eat. Catching so many on a swimming type bait tells me they bite at every minnow and small fish that comes close enough to them that they think they can catch. Wife also caught some on cut up GSF cut bait, so they also do scrounge off the bottom.

As far as basslovers chumming, I also have found this to be a way to up the catch rate. I hand feed all around the perimeter of our pond. The feed instantly attracts the small 4-5" BG around the edge. Their splashing and feeding is the dinner bell ringing for the CC. After I put feed out anywhere around the pond and the BG start feedeing, within a couple minutes the CC will show up. I feed some more and then toss in a jig among the turmoil. Caught several CC this way. Have repeated the process several times, thinking the CC would wise up and quit feeding. But the BG splashing the top of the water and the conditioned lure of free feed seems to be a big attractant. They keep coming back for more.

Thanks for the cheese hot dog tip basslover. that sounds like a good one.

snrub -

Cheesedogs ... cats love them!

Thats a nice sized cat what did it weigh? I've fished our river and local lakes having good luck with chicken liver and shrimp.

I think that was 22-26 lbs, Colorado Cowboy. It was a great battle to land, and then a wrestling match on the bank, and pure elation I landed the cat that broke my line 6 months earlier as it flopped out of my net and we looked eye to eye before it swam off. LOL

Thats a good story. I bet it was a pretty good fight.

I took pictures of my smaller pond on my phone and emailed them to myself. Going to see if I can figure out how to put it on here.

Well after going through the how to add a picture thread that didn't work it says my picture is more than 2mb.

Was able to crop it on my phone. This is the smaller pond I have that am considering stocking with just cc and fhm. I'll try and get a picture of the main pond soon also

I called Hartley's back and added 2000 more fhm, 100 hbg, and 25 redear. The new plan is to have a catfish pond and pan fish pond until adding lmb to it next year. Thank you to everyone that helped with recommendations.

Main pond

I 2nd the do not release CC after hook caught. Been removing for 2 years now after catch and release. Only could catch them when hand feeding table scraps, bread, etc. They would all come, and chow down. Smoosh some bread on the hook, or piece of meat, and wham. Got greedy last year, and caught 3 at one feeding.
Not 1 CC showed up for tablescraps for over 1 YEAR, I thought they died from winter. The majority of fish are from 1997, and 7 - 9#. Fed for many years weekly. In july I had 1 show for a couple weeks, then 3. Last weekend 4, then 10. Fed tablescraps, and caught 1 each day. Drag them out quick, and keep throwing food out to keep the others busy. This is in a 5/8 acre pond. Have not caught 1 in years with bait on a hook, or specialty CC baits. Even had to take sinker of line before I got any. The fight is incredible like a steelhead but they start rolling.

Be careful feeding hotdogs to young starving fish. It can choke them!

I received my fish two weeks ago ended up with 200 8-12" cc 300 2-4" bg, 125 mixed of hybrid bg and redear, 6000 minnows and 10 grass carp.

I put two grass carp in the pond with the panfish

and the rest in a seprate pond with the cc. Split the fhm between the two ponds.

Feeding a handful of food daily. Only found one dead cc the day after delivery right about where they were released.

Your CC are going to want a lot more feed than that soon unless there is something else for them to eat in the pond. They will become hungry "pigs" very quickly (once they get settled in to their new environment).

I plan on feeding more after they figure out what it is so i'm not wasting as much. They also have gizzard chad to eat that must have come with some heavy rains when the creek ran.

Just remember that Hybrid Bluegills are not the same as regular Bluegills when planning on having them in a pond for forage for fish like bass.....