I had a dam built that the builder expected to flood 10 acres.
It sat from last May until January with about a acres of water 10 foot deep, we just didn't get any rain.
In January I put in 10,000 CNBG and 30,000 FHM

In the last month we have had two big rains and the pond is almost full.
I can now see it is never going to be 10 acres .
As is sets it is right at 5 and when full it will not be much bigger.
How bad did I mess up?
Will starting out with too many fish sort it's self out ?

The pros will be along with good advice. That is a lot of CNBG for 5 acres. How big were they when stocked? Are you feeding them? I'm not familiar with CNGB but reg bluegill don't have to bee too large to start spawning, which means you could have a population explosion in a year. Personally, I would try to get the numbers down. I'd try to find some LMB large enough to eat some of the CNBG and probably trap some too. They should grow pretty quickly if you are feeding them and provide you, and possibly friends, with some decent table fare. A few smaller LMB would work on the FHM but I doubt they'd be a problem. You can always take out a few LMB when the balance gets where you want it. It seems keeping a pond in balance is one of the biggest challenges.

Buff, in my very limited opinion I don't think you can have too many cnbg. If you plan on stocking LMB they should have a feeding frenzy and grow very rapidly once they are able to eat the perch.

I do know that CNBG can spawn at just 3" therefore if any are bigger than that you're likely to have even more.

Similarly, I stocked 1800 CNBG in my 1 acre pond so very close ratio to yours and will add LMB fingerlings at the end of May.

I am not a pro but it seems logical to me, if you have stocked beyond the capacity of the pond, the result will be starvation and death of the weakest until a balance is reached with available forage. I would expect stunting of the CNBG as part of that balance if significant predation is not provided. Again, I am not a pro. Hopefully, one will be along to provide their experience.

What is your soil like? Would you want to get the digger back out and "add on" to the pond? Add shallows or draws? Maybe more to the face? If possible. would that be an option?

How deep is it and what was your original plan? Add large mouth? If you did want to cut back on the cnbg there are always people that would like some. Having a pond with fish is a lot better than not having a pond with fish, so what ever you do; do not get discouraged. Lots of Texas boys on here.! They will have good input. My unprofessional opinion is you have set you self up for managing for bigger bass And lots of forage. Was there a lot of submerged vegetation when it filled? With the pond being new there should be enough food for things to grow for a year. What other forage are you planning on adding? Do you want to add advanced lmb or fingerlins? What hatchery did you use.? Are you guys looking droughty? We are here in the Midwest.

Buff, you should read the thread "time to stock the pond".

Buff, If you want some big Bass, put in about 250, F1 Hybrid LMB, or get 250 6-8" LMB....growth rates on the stocked LMB should be awesome, and a couple LMB spawns will bring down the CNBG numbers yet leave a few years of really large CNBG later also.

If you are gonna screw up an overstocking, doing it on your forage base is about the best mess-up possible. A 40:1 ratio of CNBG to LMB could make some double digit bass for you to catch soon.

BTW, Welcome to the forum!!!

Buff, your are in good N.E. Texas area with some good nearby PondBoss neighbors.
Personally I would stay away from F1 LMB at this time and stock pure Florida LMB with Camelot Bell genes. They will grow fast and be catchable with that much forage. You can always add northern LMB later if F1's are desired but many of us are finding the new Camelot Bell strain of LMB are easy to catch.

See Overton's recent post:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=405858#Post405858

I am a big fan of HSB (Hybrid Striped Bass) and would add them as well to balance out large forage bass, but if you are in the Piney Woods area, water may be acidic and need treatment. I would speak with a qualified fisheries biologist for advice.

Good luck and welcome to the forum,
George Glazener

Buff, I don't think u r overstocked with forage fish. I see a couple of ways to proceed from here. 1 is to research here !! A lot of information from some really good people. Gregg Grimes talks about forage ratio of forage to LMB and is one Good example here. Another route is like George has said and contact a biologist for guidance. I am another NE Texas pond owner and I am working with Todd Overton @ Overtons Fisheries for direction for my goals. I would highly recommend Todd and Walt.

Tracy

Good advice, talk to the Overton's and explain your situation.
http://www.overtonfisheries.com/
You have made some early decisions on your own, now get some professional advice to take advantage of what you have done so far. They are very knowledgeable how to utilize your existing forage and growing big bass. You will not be disappointed with Overtons. Keep us advised about your pond progress.

thanks for all the feed back.
The bass go in in May

Can we assume that you called Overtons? They are very good fish people with great customer relations and know how to grow trophy bass. If you get your bass from them you will grow some great bass. Remember it takes some management to keep the bass from overpopulating. Five acres of water should grow some very nice bass and panfish. Keep us updated on this thread each year and we are here to advice you in your pond management adventure. Remember your thread is in Stocking A New Pond - Creating the Food Chain.
How many bass are you planning to stock?

I plan to put in 250 bass.
The fellow I paid to manage it wants to put in 1-1/2" fish.
How do you feel about the larger feed trained bass?
The pond is 30' deep

Use feed trained bass only if you set up several feeders to feed those bass. Otherwise stocking feed trained bass will get a slow growth start since they are trained to eat pellets and it could take a few weeks for them to figure out that the only food for them is live food. Fish eating stockers will start eating and growing the first day. After one and two reproductions about all the offspring will not eat pellets and they will feed primarily on live food. If you want pellet eating bass long term (6-20yrs) you have to periodically stock more pellet trained bass.

Just like Cody always said, it all depends. Need to define overstocking. Don't some of the other pros recommend 2000 bluegill per acre now? I wonder how this is working out.

Did Buff say what size bluegill he stocked?

I can see how how stocking too many bluegill up front could hurt you, especially if they are advanced size fish from the start. You may not want to concentrate so much on feeding the adult bluegill, instead concentrate on producing plankton. If your pond does not produce significant plankton for baby bluegill and fathead minnows to eat, then they themselves may starve, grow slow, and/or get eaten by parent bluegill. But with adequate plankton abundance, bluegill and fathead minnows fry survival should be significant. I recommend running a minnow seine to spot sample the pond before adding the bass. If the buffet isn't set for them then they may not grow like they should.

Personally, I stocked 30,000 small bluegill in my 3/4 acre bass brood stock pond last spring, but I had to feed em regularly, aerate. The brood stock bass did not complain about the bluegill being overstocked. The bass responded with RWs up to 133.

Since you appear to be planning for the introduction of small bass fingerlings, the ideal scenario is for your pond to have produced hundreds of thousands of 1" bluegill and fathead minnows at the time that the bass fingerlings are introduced.

And I agree with George. Stay away from hybrid fish. Stock the camelot bell or other pure florida bass from the start, and you may still have trophy potential in your bass even when you are a decade down the road...

Buff, I would not consider stocking larger feed trained trained LMB and agree with Bill Cody’s comments.

There are several of us on this forum with lots of experience managing N.E.Texas ponds that are bursting with jealousy /envy for your once in a lifetime opportunity to create a world class trophy bass fishery that is bursting with forage fish.
If your pond manager is not aware of the new pure DNA tested pure Florida bass fingerlings available, that have been developed over 6/7 years for fast growth, catchability with recognizable characteristics, I believe I would have a talk.

Please do not take offense for “meddeling” in your stocking plan, but information provided is from from some of the best knowledgeable fishery folks on this forum.

I would talk to Todd Overton about your plan, or have your pond manger speak with him before taking any action.
He is one of the most highly respected fisheries biologist that raises some of the best fish in this part of the country – I do not buy fish from anyone that does not raise his own fish. It won’t cost you anything to make a phone call to Todd – or have pond manger give him a call.

Good luck on your program.
George

ps: Todd types faster than I do..

Yes there are studies on stocking with higher rates of BG (2000 and 3000 per acre)in an empty southern pond and they showed that stocking at higher rates delayed the onset of LMB crowding. LMB condition did not suffer nor did growth rates for LMB. Get the back issue of PB mag.

Thanks for all the info
I will talk to the guy I hired and make sure I get pure strain bass from Overtons.
Im pretty sure that is where he bought the bream.

Buff, welcome to the forum.

A tip. Go to the top of this thread and click on "Topic Options". Add this thread to your "watch list". Then a week or month or year from now you will be able to call up this thread easily. I learned the hard way that it can take a lot of time to re-find an old thread to update it. Your "watch" list can keep track of the threads that interest you.