i have creeks in my area full of what i call creek minnows. my father and i used to net hundreds of them when i was a kid and use them for creek fishing because they were very tough on the hook. my question is would you recomend putting wild minnows like that in a new pond or is it recomended to go to my local fish farm and drop some cash for farm raised minnows. my pond doesnt have water yet and when its starting to hold water, i was going to get a good minnow population going before i put my crappies in.

Can you take some good pictures of these minnows for our experts to ID? Could be creek chub which are fine in a pond, but won't reproduce in stillwater.

river rat welcome to the PB Forum, normally I wouldn't recommend putting wild fish in your pond due to possible disease or not being able to identify the species, but you have to decide that.

I get trout from a stream on my property but my pond is also supplied water from the same stream and I haven't had any problems, also I get some fish from a Mt. lake nearby but there are no problems with this remote lake.
If you can get your fatheads or golden shiners from a supplier it's probably a safer way to start your fish forage base.

River Rat,

BUY your minnows and KEEP the receipt!!!!

In Missouri, if you can not prove you bought every species in your pond....your pond is considered "Waters of the State" (they will own it)

"Creek minnows", depending on the actual species, will not do well in ponds because they thrive in flowing water. You also take a huge risk of introducing parasites and pathogens that you will not risk by using Hatchery fish.

Feel free to contact me anytime, you may be pleasantly surprised how inexpensive stocking really is.....and you will have total control over what fish go into your pond.


EDIT: Your fish will be the least expensive investement in your pond, yet the entire point of building it in the first place. Is this really an area you want to skimp on?

The River Rat - nice handle, welcome to the forum!

I agree with Rex on all his points 100%. Fish are one of the least expensive investments, but certainly not a place to skimp. A couple lbs of Fathead Minnows will reproduce so many times within 6 mos or a year as long as other fish aren't present - it's best to source these from a reputable hatchery in Missouri. You could probably get away with a $100-$200 investment in FHM. Add pallets along the shoreline to provide spawning habitat, and let them go crazy.

Do you have any photos of your place? We love photos!

For the stated goals in your other posts, there is no need to obtain any species other than those available from a fish farm. Stocking 5 pounds of fathead minnows and 5 pounds of golden shiners will be a great start for your pond.

I'd still love to see photos of these "creek minnows" though... I can at least attempt to ID them for you so you know what they are. Some species which are very suitable for ponds are not available from fish hatcheries. However, as others have already said, you run the risk of introducing disease, parasites and unwanted species. These risks are greatly reduced when you follow certain procedures in introducing fish from the wild to your pond or buy from a reputable fish hatchery.

Go with the fish farm bought fish and take Rex's advice, particularly since Missouri has such weird laws pertaining to private ponds and fish introduction.

thanks guys. im glad i asked that question because i was a little worried about the disease thing. i live in perry county and i know there have been a decline in fish numbers in our creeks for what ever reasons. disease may be one so why chance it.

i have access to some pallets. how ofter does a guy have to add more? as they rot will i have to put more back in?

cjbs it will be a while before i can get some pics of those minnows but i will some day for ya. i remember there were shinners but the majority were called somthing else that i cant remember right now. saining minnows was always fun as a kid. i just havnt done it in a long time.

If the creek, or any flowing ditches are real close to your pond, your pond fish will probably be exposed pretty quickly to any indigenous disease. Birds, turtles, mink, otter, and any other fish eating critter will eventually spread it. If there are no nearby creeks, your fish may go years without being exposed, maybe not in your lifetime.

Pallets last many years. Mine are around 5, and still look the same.

Many of the creeks around here have Gambusia, Black Strip Top Minnows, Red Horse Minnows, and others.

I had tried to start my pond off the right way as well, but unfortunately I did not check it one last time before stocking it, and it has a nice population of Green Sunfish.

I am now in the process of trying to thin them out which has been fun.

As many has mentioned buy from a trusted source.

How would they know what fish are in your pond?

Plus how would they have access to the BOW?

This seems odd to me, has anyone ran into this issue and the state take theirs over?

This may make a nice topic in its own.

This pertains only to Missouri. It also pertains to many states that off er "free" pond stocking. The state can sample water's they "suspect MAY" have il;egally stocked species. It rarely happens, but can.

Indiana used to be that way. The state offered "free" fish for pond stocking, but then your pond was no longer "private". With the budget cuts, they no longer offer the fish, so the law was changed.

There happens to be a great article in the latest issue of Pond Boss Magazine about the "Ownership" of fish laws in different states.....the laws vary widely. Oddly enough in Arkansas, all fish are owned by the state, yet central Arkansas is the fish farming capital of the world!

If you have a closed BOW of water, it still blows my mind how the fish in your closed BOW could be the property of the state... I can understand if you own a section of river where the fish have free access to come and go as they please. But a closed BOW like a pond or lake? Ridiculous!

Sort of like saying deer are the property of the state when they are free ranging. But if you put up a fence and buy deer legally to raise behind that fence, those deer still belong to the state.

Yes the article is good, and I also found out that in Oklahoma all wildlife is considered property of the state.

And unless the pond owner has receipts and can prove the fish in the pond were purchased, the state length, bag or possession limits apply.

I completely disagree with this as I am sure many others due since it seems to be fairly typical to have a pond get overcrowded with LMB.

We all know that these need to be harvested but since it would be illegal to keep them all (since you did not purchase last years spawn), you have to throw them back.

I guess another option would be to toss them on the bank, but to me that seems like a waste when one could clean them for a meal.

Anyway that is my 2 cents.

well its funny we are talking about this ownership issue. i had attempted to pick a number from the County lottery system to have the state soil division pay for the construction of my pond. i tried about 3 times without sucess. Then i went on a elk hunt with a conservation agent friend of mine. we talked about all kinds of things on our 16hr trip, After a while i kind of realized that if i had the county/state assist me in funding my new pond project, they may be able to come back and put serious restrictions on the pond. looking back im really glad ive paid for all of it out of my pocket.

I just moderated myself.

If you don't stop you'll go blind.

its official! the river rats pond is alive. i put 5lbs of fhm in it yesterday and they are doing good. lost about 8 or 10 so i figure that aint bad. i bought them from logans fish farm in southern illinois. anyone delt with them. they are only about 6 miles from my house as the crow flys but it took me an hour to get there. i got that little piece of water between us called the mississippi river. i was impressed by there operation. its big. and the folks were helpfull and plesant to deal with.

I don't know much about Logan Hollow and that is usually good. Bad news travels REAL fast. Another great farm near you is Fountain Bluff in Gorham, ILL.


Did they provide you with the required health certification for fish coming from a Great Lakes state?

no, is that a state law in IL?

No, it's Federal.

Here is an excerpt on some FAQ's from the USDA-APHIS....The regulations have become so overly burdonsome that they are often being ignored completely. This excerpt does not pertain to the bait fish persea...I haven't had enough cups of coffe to search for it yet....the regs are VERY broad and vague and IMO written to make full compliance impossible and allows for the gov to shut a person down at will.

Complete text here.. Live Fish FAQ's


Q. What conditions must be met under the Federal
Order to move live VHS-susceptible species
for purposes other than slaughter, research, or
diagnostics?
A. In order to move live VHS-susceptible species for
purposes other than slaughter, research or, diagnostics,
the fish must be transported with documentation
from appropriate State, Tribal, or Federal authorities
for aquatic animal health stating that the fish have
tested negative for the VHS virus under existing
national and international standards specified in the
Federal Order. National standards for testing are
detailed in the American Fisheries Society Suggested
Procedures for the Detection and Identification of
Certain Finfish and Shellfish Pathogens also referred
to as the AFS Blue Book. The blue book is available
online at www.fisheries.org/fhs. International standards
for testing are included in the World Organization
for Animal Health (OIE) Manual of Diagnostic
Tests for Aquatic Animals, which is available online at
www.oie.int/eng/normes/fmanual/A_00022.htm.
Q. Does this mean that live fish can move interstate
from the 8 States included in the Federal
Order if they test negative for VHS?
A. Live fish can move interstate if they test negative
for VHS and are accompanied by documentation from
the appropriate State, Tribal, or Federal authority for
aquatic animal health. This documentation ensures
that all testing is conducted in accordance with the
Federal Order at an approved State, Tribal, or Federal
laboratory.

I recently spoke with a USFWS agent that told me.... if they wanted to, they could demand certification of fish that are merely transported through a great lakes state, regardless of the fish origin because of the way the regs are written. He further said, some could interperet the regulations to extend to fish coming from Arkansas that pass through a GL state as "having come from" that great lake state.

FHM are not susceptible to VHS and therefore a health certificate for FHM is NOT required.

JKB, I agree with you, what I am saying is APHIS can and DOES require the certificates at will. I also did not mean to imply the health certification requirements are ONLY for VHSV---there are many pathogens for many fish species that Great Lakes States are required to test fish for that will be sold to other states for stocking....Many farms do not comply except for trout due to the excessive documentation and expense.

Tilapia are not carriers either, yet your fine state of Michigan requires health certificates. The tests must be done using USDA approved methods. Since no APPROVED test exists for fish not suceptible, thy cannot be certified, and importation requests are routinely denied....been there, done that.

My point was more the lunacy of the regulations with the way they are written.

I hear you on the lunacy, what is even more ludicrous is the way they are interpreted.

Here is an actual email I received from MI about HSB back in 2004.

Sorry for the belated response to your inquiry. It would be difficult to gain approval to keep hybrid striped bass since DNR is very concerned about the species being released (intentionally or non intentionally) in Michigan. There is an exception to the aquaculture law for non commercial use of fish in private waters. So, if you were going to have the fish for your own personal use as a hobby, this would be a possibility. There is also another exception for research, but the purpose of the research needs to be to evaluate the species for aquaculture in Michigan. Since DNR would be unlikely to support hybrid striped bass for aquaculture, this approach probably would not work.

Approvals for fish species not on the apprpoved list are done with iniput from both MDA and MDNR. Would you like me to purse the issue with DNR?

That one blew my mind. I wanted to try raise some in a small Recirculating System.

And even intentionally MIS-interpereted!

Thats another one

Wow, I am logged in on two computers now. I had to fire up the old girl to find to find an email.

See edit above!