I read in thein PB or SP that a shiner population is likely to be decimated if bass are already present. Is this because the farm raised shiners are not able to escape bass as easy as wild shiners?
The reason I ask is, when I was young I fished for shiners in at a boy scout camo and caught ones that were up to 12" long. The lake I caught them in had a large bass and pickeral population. The lake had alot of shallow weed cover for the shiners and in my opinion that is why the shiner population thrives there. My next question is if you want to esablish a thriving shiner popualation with bass already present, should you stock wild shiners as well?

I think the primary factor is cover.
If they have grasses along the bank to hide in and spawn, they should be ok.

The shiners did well in the Boy Scout lake because of the amount of weed cover in shallow water. The weeds provide lots of refuge areas for the shiners to avoid predation. Shoreline shallow weeds and emergent weeds provide lots of spawning areas. With that combination it will not make any difference in survival if wild or farm raised shiners are present. Underwater vegetation beds are much better as refuge areas for small fish than artificial structure.

Over the past three years or so, I've added in excess of 300lbs. of golden shiners into my pond. The pond is 6-7 acres and had/has good existing LMB populations as well as Black Crappie, Bullheads, Bluegills, and Yellow Perch. During these past few years I've also added more LBM and SMB in good quantities, as well as Yellow Perch, Bluegill, HSB, and Channel Cats in lesser quantities.

During these same years, I've also put in more than 500lbs of fatheads.

I've also always had substantial submerged weed growth, but not so much that you couldn't use a trolling motor without getting spun up with weeds. Last year, I had basic pond weed out of control, so much so that you couldn't get across 4.5 acres of my lake with a trolling moter; only oars would work.

These past few weeks, when I threw out some feed, the majority of what was coming up and hitting it were Golden Shiners. They seem to be just coming up from the bottom in 4-6' of water.

Yesterday, I threw out some feed, and there were easily thousands of Golden Shiners (3" to 6"+ long) hitting the feed in a roughly 20' x 20' area.

Only everyonce in a while, you would see several hundred shiners try to fly.

Water temps were only about 57 degrees, so I'm waiting for some warmer weather to get the SMB and LMB more active, and then to throw out some feed and observe the massacre & brutality.

Anyways, that's what half of me thinks.

The other half thinks I may be the second member in Theo's "I Think I May Have Way Too Many Golden Shiners" Club.

Sunil:

Your Secret Shiner Decoder Ring is in the mail. :p

Seriously, with GShiners established, I think it'll be real good for your bass.

They are very easy to trap. You could take the ones with child and cut them up and throw them back in for the CC. I think overall they are very good forage, but also very nimble. With that many predators I doubt you have too many. Do you ever see any Theo sized ones(9+")?

For the most part, I am glad to see such a strong forage base in my pond which seems to be regenerating.

My fear is that I will have too many huge shiners over 8" long. If that happens, I may not have anything big enough to eat them.

My plan is to wait until water temps get into the high 60's and low 70's to see how the shiners are being consumed.

Masterbasser, so far I have not seen a difference. I introduced "wild" shiners into my pond at the same time as regular golden shiners. The wild ones have a black dot on their tail and are easy to see. I believe the GS revert back to their natural wild behavior in a very short time...i.e. a couple of weeks.

Sunil, you are doing things right. It only takes a 3.5 LMB to take out a 9 inch shiner...it's unusual in the South to worry about too much forage. Keep forage heavy with a close eye, it's a lot easier to ruin a forage base than it is to create one.

Yeah I wouldn't worry about your shiners getting too big. I use shiners around 9" for bait and I get 3 lb bass eating them. I sopend hours catching those big shiners and then a 3 lber eats them.

I found this old thread which seemed to be a logical place to ask another question on GSH. Do they only spawn once during a season? If so, what water temp or month in N. Illinois? I have a small population but I want to stock some more this spring. I would like to get them in before they spawn to improve the chances of establishing a larger sustainable population. I have a significant amount of under water vegetation for cover and spawning already.

Underwater veggies are really important for GSH. I had GSH put in when there were very few underwater plants in my BOW and never have seen a one again, even when electroshocking. My LMB made a significant RW gain right then , so I can't complain.

Researching this, I find GSH can spawn 3-4 times in northern climates and as many as 7-8 times in their southern range.
In your location 5 wouldn't be out of the question if habitat conditions are proper. As with any species, whether you see recruitment or not is based on many factors.
Edit: Looks like spawning can occur in/near mid 60's up. It may tapper off in extreme heat I would guess.

My GSH have done exceptionally well, and I have little or no vegetation. I do have several sunken pallets, and cedar trees. The pallets were for the FHM, but they’ve disappeared. However, my pond is a SMB, YP, RES, primarily pond. I think my GSH have been able to reach a size where the SMB can’t eat them. My concern now is that they are so numerous that they are impacting YP production. We stocked HSB three years ago, which we thought would help, but we’ve never actually seen one.

SetterGuy, I have the same stocked fish and I am trigger happy ready for walleye if I need predator control. Problem is WAE readily eat YP as well as GSH.
Anderson minnow farms say Cedar trees are their preferred spawning habitat for GSH, FWIW...

Thx! Cedar trees, maybe that’s why mine have done so well. The SMB or the invisible HSB work the GSH schools, because I’ll see waves of them jumping out of the water followed by big swirls. I’ve always thought it was my SMB, because they are pretty aggressive.

It's been my experience in what I've learned about smallmouth, they are a "smart" fish.. Their methods of positioning for ambush is very unique. They seem to be methodical compared to the bulldog aggressive monster the HSB is. They show up and blast through schools in a fashion that obviously uses a lot of energy. Wiper don't seem to have a patternable strategy, they just seem to eat what and how they want.
And although most people with them in ponds will say they seemed to disappear, they WILL show up, and when they do nobody will be more surprised than your shorts..
They will leave an impression you won't forget.

Thanks for the info guys. I think I will wait until May to stock once the water temp reaches mid 60's.