I have a question about forage fish. I can't seem to get any more bigger BG or RES at this point and I only have put 50 bigger BG in my pond. I put 200 2 to 3 inch in there also but i suppose most of them got ate anyway. My question is I mainly have a LMB pond. If I have to maintain a forage base for a while by adding Shiners or FHM's how much should I put in my 1 acre pond and how many times a year give or take?? I want to make sure my LMB have enough food but I can't get a decent BG population at this point. I put 10 lbs of FHM's in there in March but I want to put some GSH in there also but I don't know how many I should put in at this point. Thanks for any help!

I guess being in Arkansas buying FHM and GSH may be cheaper, but it's gonna get awful expensive. It seems your pond is just too bass heavy. Have you tried removing more bass to help alleviate the intense pressure of the few forage fish you have?

I have removed some bass but the problem is I can't get any CNB right now that are decent size to be able to spawn for me. I can get 10 lbs of FHM's for 58 bucks. GSH are around 8 bucks a pound but I don't know what else to do right now. I would buy BG but i can't find them.

I would remove as many bass as you can... Until you do that, you're wasting your money on throwing forage fish in there. The FHM and GSH are just a short snack... Think about it like this. 10 pound of GSH or FHM equals 1 pound of bass growth. Say your 1 acre pond holds 75 bass. If you put 50 pounds of forage fish in your pond and each bass equally ate the forage... They'd all grow a whopping hair over an oz each... If you get the FHM at an extremely cheap $5.80 a pound, that $290 dollars to grow your fish 1 oz. Ouch! Or if you go with GSH, that's $400 for an 1 oz of fish growth. Double ouch! Plus, I am betting you have far more than 75 bass in your pond and not all your forage fish would be eaten by the bass. Some would be eaten by your sunfish, herons, if you have catfish, them etc...

It would be cheaper to cull your bass with the cost of a stick of dynomite, faster too! I know that didnt help but it was comic relief.

Raising baitfish and forage link had a thread i read right after posting the above. It mentioned blocking nets to keep your lmb from getting to the bait fish. Could you incorporate that into your pond?

Ok well lets say I have 50 bass in my 1 acre pond. For the time being untill I can get some more CNB and RES in your opionion how many lbs of GSH would I need to keep my bass healthy. And how many times would I need to put them in my pond.

Example 10 lbs of GSH's would last how long, before I need to put 10 more lbs in there? If I had to do this through November? My bass right now are anywhere from 10 to 15 inches. Keep in mind some of them are spawning and I would think some of my 50 CNB I put in there are going to spawn also.

Maybe 10 lbs every other month? Or what do you think? I know it's going to be pricey but I will do what it takes until I can get some more decent size CNB.

My bet, your 10 pounds of FHM or GSH would be gone in less than a week. I can put a pound of FHM into an aquarium with 5 bass and they'll be gone in 2 days... When you put forage into a pond like this, your treating the symptom not curing it.

I understand that but I don't think my bass situation is really that bad. I can't tell for sure of course. And I don't really want to start yanking more bass out of my pond if I could so (something) until I could get some more CNB. CJ another question if I start a tagging system to know how many bass I have in my pond how many would you recommend me having in a 1 acre pond. About 25 or 30 I guess??? I bought Gregs tagging system with the numbered tags. So I could tag about 30 bass and cull the rest I suppose. I don't know how else to figure out what I have in my pond and how many!!! Do you think that would work??

RC

Have you thought about introducing adult BG and RES to your pond? I routinely hold collection efforts at local ponds to for my own ponds and others. CJ is right, unless you use a blocking net your FHM are toast. If you stock 8-10" GSH they may escape predation and spawn, but not sure if you can source them that large or not. IMO you need to go collect adult RES and BG and stock them into your pond if you are certain your BG and RES populations are that low. Is the WR of your LMB dropping, or are you just assuming their numbers are low because you're not seeing them? Another option might be to increase the amount of shallow structure to help promote BG and RES spawns and to provide some protection from predation.

So, I'd think about adding shallow structure and stocking adult GSH and BG/RES from local lakes/ponds.

This may not be completely scientific, but I feel it has good scientific merit and should give your a fairly accurate idea on the number of catchable sized bass you have in your pond.

To do it, you have to be willing to tag a number of fish and can afford an electroshock survey. If you could tag, say 20 bass, but at least 10... Then about a month later, electroshock your pond. Count all bass that are capture during the electroshocking. Of all the bass you catch while electroshocking, a percentage of those fish should be tagged fish...

Here's how the math works...

Say you electroshocked up 30 bass and 6 of them were 20 of the originally tagged bass. That would mean, about 20% of your fish population is tagged. 30 is 20% of 150. So, you would have around 150 catchable bass in your pond.

CJ thats basically a mark-recapture method, do a little research on google there is a formula for it. it is used by fish biologists on lake but im sure it applies for ponds. There are various forms of it, but thats the basics that you mention

you can "mark" them via tags or fin clipping etc.

you also have to (in the equation) adjust for fishing/angler/natural mortality and for fisherman that catch a tagged fish and dont tell anyone or release it. Once again this is all for a major lake not a pond.

In the lake wide method they catch them via electro fishing and mark them and then let angles catch them and turn the tag in for a reward, and divide by angling hours and various other factors. ill try to find it.

Well thats interesting but I can't in any way get a boat down to my pond to electroshock it. It's surrounded by trees and no road down to it to put in a electroshock boat that's for sure.

Yes, it is basic fish biology, but I am not sure it has ever been done in the method I described. So I would rather throw up the caution flag that it may not be scientifically tried and true than be eaten alive for not saying so from the beginning.

In my fisheries classes, nets and traps were used, not electrofishing but I don't see why electrofishing would be any different. Angling would cause a problem as the bass you caught to put tags in them could show more hook shy compared to non tagged fishing, skewing the numbers...

TJ

Yes I have considered introducting adult BG and RES in my pond. That is going to be my next try at this point. I know I only have about 60 in my pond and that's if they are all still alive??? I just have to find a place where I can go and catch the heck out of some BG and RES. I will be a worm fishing fool if I can find one. I have created a 150 gallon holding tank for fish at the house so I can keep them for a few days if I have to till I can get them to my pond. I just need to find a place that needs some BG and RES cleaned out! Thanks for the suggestion!

Hey TJ57,

Just to follow up with this I found a spot to do what you asked. I caught 9 BG last night about 4 to 5 inches long. I have them in my holding tank and they are doing just fine. So I will be going back to get more!! I figure once I get about 60 total and I believe they are all in good shape I will transfer to my pond. All of these fish look great! The small lake/pond I found is managed by the Game and Fish here so the fish seem to be of good quality.