I bought some property this fall and I'm currently in the process of having a 1/2 acre pond dug. Very first pond, very excited but at the same time nervous. It is to be stocked at some point, still deciding on species, it will have a beach/swimming area and a windmill for areation.

It was to be about 15' deep, mostly sandy loam, and gravely loam until we hit some gray clay at 15'. It will be filled with run off from about a 4 acre watershed.

Looking forward to sharing and learning.

Welcome, ask lots of ?s and keep us up to date on progress.
Do ya live in Ohio and have property in Mich?

Welcome to PBF!!

Exactly right Bob. In NW Ohio most ponds are watershed ponds sealed with redish clay. My pond in Michigan is Gray Clay...which I feel is fortunated becuse we hit no water down to 15' and the only other option was a liner.

Welcome to our great pond forum. Your two main choices for pond fish are bluegill-LMbass and yellow perch-without LMbass although the predator can be walleye (WE) or smallmouth(SMB). It is difficult management to combine all those species into one pond and get all to do really well; survive but not thrive. I don't think the MDNR allows hybrid striped bass(HSB)in MI. YP-HSB are a very good combination since the HSB do not reproduce and you have very good control of the number of predator - a big plus. WE would also provide that same benefit, but not SMB, since they commonly spawn in most ponds with a sandy gravel beach area.

If you stock YP and do it correctly you can have 10" YP after the 1st or 2nd yr depending on if you stock fingerlings (2"-4") or 4"-6"ers. A good method is to use some of both sizes. Good genetic stock YP at 5"-6" and pellet fed will get to 9"-10 in one growing season (spring-summer-fall).

A third option is to stock hybrid BG and LMB to produce really big panfish. Read through the posts in this link from our Common Q&A Achives.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=256325#Post256325

Our forum member Sprkplug has two articles in 2014 Pond Boss magazine. Pictures of his HBG are in the link above. In the articles below he tells how to do it.
May-June HYBRID BLUEGILLS….. BENEFIT OR BOONDOGGLE? Tony Livingston provides his real story about hybrid bluegill and their proper management based on his experience of what works. Here is thoughtful advice, some facts and fiction and a formula for success

Jul-Aug ART OF THE SCIENCE OF GROWING HUGE HYBRID SUNFISH. Tony Livingston explains the concepts, ideas, and requirements to grow trophy sized hybrid bluegills

rcgoblue,

I am trying to picture your project. How deep will the pond end up being? Are you in an area with high yearly rainfall? Is your 4 acres of watershed pretty much open ground or is it wooded? Is watershed the only source of water?

Bill D.

rcgoblue,
Welcome to Pond Boss...lots of good helpful folks here to guide you along on your journey toward pond-om...shoot us some pics of your progress.
Charlie

Bill D.

Trying to get some photos loaded.

Because we hit clay at 15 feet the pond will be deeper than anticipated.....20'. We get 32" of rainfall per year. The watershed is sloped nicely to the pond area and it is all open ground....reclaimed farm land. It is the only watersource however I could also suppliment with a well that is on the property.

For a well sealed pond, 32" of annual precipitation will keep it full or reasonably full. Well sealed dug ponds in NW OH will loose 12" -16" maximum of water during our drought summers. Loss of more water than 16"-20" indicates significant leakage. If your contractor spreads and compacts the clay properly that he finds below 15ft, your pond should stay pretty full all year. Plan to have a good over flow pipe that is well compacted into the pond wall for release of excess water from the pretty large water shed. A grassed or rock lined spillway may also be a good idea for heavy rain events. I like to have an elbow on the overflow pipe to capture extra water during the spring rains. A 4"-6" dia overflow pipe should be adequate for 1/2 ac.
See the important discussion and great information about soil compaction in this link. After reading it you may have a different opinion of your pond builder.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=395066#Post395066


The 20ft or more depth will put excessive strain on the windmill diaphragm & bearings due to the greater pressure needed to get air out of the diffuser at deep depths (16+ft). Aeration windmills work best long term in shallow ponds (6ft-10ft) where useful circulating bubbles appear during slower wind speeds 5-10mph. Buying a cheaply or even an average made windmill will likely result in more maintenance of bearings, diaphragms, and mechanics if the windmill has to constantly produce air at high pressure. Do your due diligence well in selecting the proper windmill. Be aware of slick sales pitches and warranties. Talk is cheap and usually empty after they have your money. I sold windmills for 8 years. Extra expense and homework up front will likely pay back dividends years later.

Thanks Bill..............based on the information you have provided and reading other articles on this forum I insisted my contractor compact the clay. He builds many ponds in Michigan mostly of the groundwater variety and admits he doesn't have a ton of experience with clay lined ponds. He feels it should still be ok but as your article states compacting will provide additional insurance. Based on our conversation he has been able to locate a sheepsfoot roller.

A couple of questions:
1) should the gray clay be mixed/ If so how?
2) should sand/spoils be layered over the clay once it is compacted?
3) he was planning on 12" of clay layer, is that adequate?
4) any issues completing this task in the dead of a Michigan winter at below freezing temperatures?
5) pros and cons of digging to 20-25' versus the inital plan of 15'?
6) special considerations for gray clay? The locals have told me its like working with toothpaste

Thanks for your help.....

I am not a soil scientist. Contact your local Soil & Water conservation office for the nearest soil scientist in your area. Ask him your soil questions. A pond builder with little experience with dug compacted ponds makes me VERY nervous. A leaky pond will be your worst chronic headache and nightmare. It can cost more to fix a leaky pond than it did it build it. The textbooks suggest a 24" thick clay liner. The best dug ponds in NW OH have bull dozer blade wide and compacted side walls above the clay layer using compacted lifts of 6"-8" thick.

Managing Michigan Ponds for Sport Fishing suggests 15ft as minimum depth and 18'-20' is better and 25ft is still better to minimize winter kill.
http://archive.lib.msu.edu/DMC/Ag.%20Ext.%202007-Chelsie/PDF/e1554-1994-print3.pdf
The main concern with those deeper depths is having the proper compressor to adequately mix the pond. Aeration is not absolutely necessary in a deep pond if you don't mind an occasional fish kill when the pond gets old and eutrophic. It is worth your expense to try and get power to within 500-800ft of the pond; closer the better. Then you won't have to spend over $1.4+K for proper windmill aeration. Good electric aeration can he had for $300-500 if you know what you are doing using wise economy shortcuts.

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Images did not appear. Maybe just provide a link to where they are stored?.

Welcome RCGoBlue! My pond is in SW Michigan. Listen to the experts here, they have helped me a ton.

I'd love to dive in to the uncertainly about HSB stocking in Michigan. There are posts on the forum where HSB were put in Michigan ponds by a reputable fish hauling (Fish farm, what is the correct term) outfit. I don't think they would risk their license by brining in illegal fish, nor want to pay the high fines!!

But there is grey area in the guidelines. Read this old post. I tried to see if the pondowner would reply, give an update on how his HSB are doing in his pond etc but no reply.

I can make calls or emails but it seems that it is one of those things in the Michigan Beurocracy that 'it depends who you ask'. Also the law doesn't separate aquaculture from private pond owner. Also I imagine it is different since my ponds has no inlet or outlet but others might.

See this thread
Michigan Pond owner stocked HSB

I can ask a contact at the Michigan DNR but I think the biologists or enforcement division or somone at HQ in Lansing need to give an official ruling, not the local officer in my area.

I see several advantages to the FHM, GSH, scud, grass shrimp, maybe native crayfish...PAUSE.... then perch, HSB later strategy.

searching for info online...
Found this link with pictures of record HSB from various states. The Indiana one looks huge for a northern state type growth pattern.

Photo album of HSB record catches, 2 pages

Also see in this webpage they list state record for Michigan caught in the Kalamazoo river about 30 miles from my pond. Now how did a HSB get in the Kalamazoo river? I guess white bass are found natively in Michigan but how did it find a striped bass to mate with?

see table about 1/2 way down this web page. MI record 10 pounds, Indiana 18!

Table of records HSB

Canyon, Nope, they are illegal. If it's illegal for a fish farm in MI to raise them, it's also illegal for you to stock them in your pond. If they are illegal to bring into MI, they are also illegal to stock in your pond. Really no grey area here, but it takes some time to sort thru this mess.

Jeff Van Brocklin must fish a lot (3 times a week for steelhead at the Allegan dam per this article. Lives in Fennville, MI, His photo and fish is in there too) He holds the HSB record.

VanBrocklin

JKB, can you show me the documentation? DNR regulations, web page, personal communication from DNR, etc? Perhaps the fish farm chooses to not raise them? Which fish farm are you referring to?

It was discussed on the PB forum already that in the case of some fish farms that it was NOT illegal for them to bring them to Michigan but they CHOSE to put them on their list that they would not bring to Michigan because of the paperwork, fish testing requirements etc.

Esshup, did you research this to some degree once? Rainman?

I'm not gonna argue with you

If no one knows you have illegal fish in your pond how can they arrest you if the 'cops' don't know where to go? Blabber mouths will be your demise.

Link to the Michigan NRCS offices

http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detailfull/mi/home/?cid=nrcs141p2_024617


re: compacting clay. You have to have the proper moisture content. Too much and it squeezes out from under the sheepsfoot roller, too little and it won't compact. If the clay is frozen I doubt that you will get the proper compaction. I'd be leery of 12" thick layer - that's 2 lifts. I'd plan on 3 lifts (18") minimum, and like Bill said about a well sealed pond, 4 lifts (24") would be better. If the pond isn't sealed, it's like trying to fill up a bathtub with water with the plug only partially sealing the hole.

Bill, if the pond was dug to 25' or even deeper to get the proper amount of clay (nebermind having to worry about the slope and being able to drive the equipment to properly compact it) couldn't the diffuser be placed at 15' depth and just not worry about the deepest part of the pond being aerated?

Good point. Yes a diffuser could be placed at some shallower depth than the maximum depth. Thus all the water above diffuser depth would be mixed and aerated. The more of the pond volume that can be circulated the less chance of a fish kill will occur. For an average 0.5 ac MI pond expect the pond to mix naturally down to around 6ft maybe 7ft deep. Everything deeper will likely be devoid of oxygen at a minimum of July-August especially after year 3 as the pond ages and becomes more eutrophic.

A 1/2 acre 20+ft dug pond has a wide V shape. A large majority of the water is in the top aerated 15-16ft, which means the water volume deeper than 16ft will have low volume and minimal influence on the aerated portion, if the pond turns over and has anoxic water in the deepest part of the pond. Thus fish kills should be very rare.

Canyoncreek, HSB are NOT on the Michigan state approved species list for aquaculture facilities in the registration application and here is an excerpt from MDARD....


You do not need an Aquaculture Research Permit or Aquaculture Facility Registration for:

• a retail bait outlet,
• retail ornamental fish facilities
• using privately controlled waters for noncommercial purposes
• public aquariums or zoos
• portable retail fishing concessions.

...Taken from the following Michigan.gov web page....

http://www.michigan.gov/mdard/0,4610,7-125-1569_16979_21263---,00.html

I believe the discussion referred to that we had of fish not being brought into Michigan was concerning Tilapia (now legal in MI) and Michigan's recent creation of a State Vet and that person's ability to create rules at any time, without due process or notice has caused many suppliers to pass on entering the state for fear of random violations being charged. Even if able to defend a charge and win, the costs and exposure are too high to risk.

Thanks Rainman, Bill, JKB. I'd like to see who I can talk to at headquarters. After all, it is the state I live in and pay taxes to. They should be willing to help me with my questions rather than bury me in their paperwork or legal mazes. I agree Rainman that it is a shame that not only do you not clearly know the law or how the law is applied but you have to use 'defensive' maneuvers to avoid legal challenges because of the high cost of defending yourself. As if you are guilty until proven innocent!

Who is the new State Vet. The State Vet decides the rules about fish stocking?

I don't doubt what you folks are saying but it would be nice to have it clarified or cleared up if possible. If not, then I agree with Rainman, you are best off steering WAY clear of any trouble.

I have an alibi, I witnessed someone bucket stock some unknown fish into my pond. But I hate to have to get entangled in a messy legal situation.

A lot more to this than your Lollipop visions. I really dislike 5.0.2. Sigh

Just make sure you bury the bucket stocker deep. They will never catch you!

If Jones says they are not legal I would bet the farm they are not. Jones' business is producing and transporting fish for pond stocking, so if it was legal in Michigan you can bet they would exploit that market. Conversely they would not try and do anything that would jeopardize their business.

I will try and find the information you need in writing in black and white as I have an ol' fisheries college classmate up there that runs a fish farm.

https://www.jonesfish.com/content/hybrid-striped-bass

Thanks Cecil. Any current contact person at the State that I could get first hand, up to date info on from would be great!

I think (not sure) with Jones that they just don't have hauling permits as they say on their web page that GSH, FHM, Rosy Reds, and yellow perch (and others on their web page) are not permitted in Michigan either and clearly they are allowed with other stocking sources.

Don't know if it is illegal or not but the Ohio aquaculture application only allows for HSB to be sold within the Ohio River Basin. Assuming selling outside of the Ohio River Basin would be a violation by the fishery. I know there are numerous federal laws regarding the Great Lakes Basin which includes northern Ohio and all of Michigan, might be why nobody wants to sell HSB up that way.

Hmmm... that is interesting. Most likely what Rex (Rainman) said (and he should know as he hauls fish for a living) that Jones just may not want to deal with ambiguous rules or excessive health testing. Unfortunately Michigan is not the most aquaculture friendly state. It's much better than it used to be as at one time the MDNR pretty much considered the aquaculture Industry as the enemy. Some of them still ride a high horse.

Let me tell you sometime what they recently did to a bobcat hunting guide up there. They also shot themselves in the foot recently IMHO by increasing out of state license fees substantially.I know a lot of Indiana outdoorsman that will be bypassing Michigan this year.

I can say this because I lived and attended high school in Michigan and even got my fisheries degree there.

And don't get me wrong Michigan still has a lot going for it.

Here's a contact page on the DNR website:

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10366-121644--,00.html

If you notice on Jones website, on the individual species descriptions, they list EVERY fish as illegal in all states surrounding Ohio, which is definitely not the case. My guess is that with all the states having different species (No YP allowed in Kentucky, no HSB in MI and lake watershed), they want out of state customers to call in orders rather than using the website for ordering.

I was told that if a pond has a permanent water inflow and outflow feature, that the pond owner had to apply for and receive a stocking permit from the state before I could deliver fish. If they didn't, then not only could the pond owner be held accountable, so could I. So in other words the State wanted me to act as a policeman and verify that the pond owner had correct paperwork.

That would take at least one more phone call, and getting a copy of the permit that the pondowner had gotten, AND keeping it on file for "X" number of years.

With the added extra work involved, it's too hard to price fish according to what state they will be delivered to on the website, and it definately drops the bottom line for that purchase.

I suspect you are right regarding hassles for out of State folk trying to bring fish in on a commercial basis or even shipping them in. That is why I think I'd like to talk to the local people myself to see how they feel a fish that already is found here and could hybridize on its own in local waters is not allowed in a pond that has no connection to any other body of water...

Thanks esshup, great point on the diffuser.....sounds like I have some challenges with sealing the clay liner that I havent thought of.

The fish you found from 1996 is classified as a White Bass that hybridized with something. Freaks of nature do occur, but that don't mean there is a viable and reproductive population taking over the planet.

You already have contact info., so be my guest at persuading the State to allow you to stock HSB in your MI pond.

Who knows, you may be the first one, legally.

You do not have to be too concerned that you don't have HSB as predators of YP in the pond. Twenty walleye (WE) in 1/2 acre will eat a lot of small fish. Plan on each WE to eat a minimum of 200 small fish per year possibly more which converts to 4000 small fish per year. I caught a 15" WE one winter with two 3" YP in it. IMO few young of year perch would survive with 20 WE in the pond. Few surviving YP means larger adult YP. The big benefits of HSB as I see it is they eat pellets and would probably consume fewer YP per year when they are supplemented with pellets and HSB are easier to catch and fight harder than WE, but not as good eating.

Can't say it better than Bill!

Back on topic......the pond. Pulled the gray clay from the bottom and hit a couple of springs at about 25'. A fair amount of water was coming in but we decided to plug it with clay also. We got a couple of good layers of clay dispersed around the entire pond but it was very difficult to work with as it was wet and just above freezing.

We ran the sheeps-foot roller over the clay and while it mixed it very well with the soil it was too wet to compact. We came back the next day wondering if we would have to wait until warmer/dryer weather to compact the clay.

We tried one last thing. The contractor used the bucket on the excavator and compacted the gray clay very nicely. It was a tedious process but looks to have done a great job as the clay is smooth from being compacted and you could see any water running down the clay.

We should be finishing up today, the dock is going in, the berms are finished with a nice slope from the waterhsed to the pond basin. About all else that is left to do is let mother nature do her thing with rain and snow. Pic below is before ading clay.

Pic with clay getting compacted with excavator bucket

Pic with clay getting worked in with sheeps foot roller. Very wet and not compacting well.

You can see some of the clay in contrast to the sandy loam that came off the treads of the dozer

another shot of the clay getting compacted

I hope that it seals well for you!

Thanks essup.......I'm already getting some water on the bottom. I'm not sure if its from run-off or spring water seaping up from the very bottom. I will have to keep monitoring it for a few more days.

Hopefully it's from runoff. If it's seeping up, then it's not sealed and you will have a groundwater pond, subject to the levels of groundwater in your area.

Would it matter if it was from a nutural spring?

You will be very lucky in my non-soil science opinion if that becomes a well sealed pond. A ground water, below ground spring seepage pond will often not stay full or near full during dry conditions of Jul-Aug-Sep. Your watershed will add lots of water during runoff producing rains. Hopefully your water level will stay deep enough that your current dock posts remain in water. The good thing about your special type of ground water pond is it is dug deep so if the water level is 3-6 ft below top of the banks you still have a pond with very good depth of 18-19ft.

They do make a vibratory drum compactor similar to compacting asphalt instead of a prong compactor. It might have done a better job than the tack hoe but probably the vibratory drum could not be driven on your steep side slopes.

"You will be very lucky in my non-soil science opinion if that becomes a well sealed pond"

Thanks Bill.......because of the type of clay? Or the way its is compacted?

""because of the type of clay? Or the way its is compacted?"" Both reasons, plus the time of year. IMO if the compacted sides go through a few freeze-thaw cycles before the pond is full this tends to loosen and break apart materials where ever water has infiltrated. Freezing & thawing apparently a powerful separating affect. Look at what is does to our northern highways both asphalt and cement.

Then depending how the winter/early spring goes worse case would be adding another layer of compacted clay?

There again you should be talking to a real educated soil scientist with experience with your soils not a fish squeezer.

Thanks Bill, funny story.......I actually have talked to a county soil scientist on a couple of occasions. He's extremely knowlegable about the local soils, permability and suitability for different crops/rotation etc. Beyond below 60" he really doesn't have a lot of input on clays for pond building etc. He did tell me to check out a website called Pond Boss for techniques to determine pond soil suitability.......he is what brought me to this site

Where do we find someone expert with Michigan gray clay??? Evidently there are soil scientists and there are soil scientists. Evidently the best practical place is a contractor who has built ponds with gray clay soil. Evidently your contractor is not real familiar with gray clay or he would have said "Hey I know just what to do with this stuff". This will be a learning curve for you.

rcgoblue, contact your local NRCS agent ate the USDA office that services your county. They are a taxpayer supported service intended to give you advice and options on what will be best with your soils, watershed and topography available. Some agents can even do core samples to discover the deeper soils, map out a dam location and even loosely supervise the construction. They are NOT allowed to suggest dirt movers or pond builders, but asked correctly who they would hire if it were their pond, most will answer honestly.

Thanks.....all great advise. In retrospect I would have started with the NRCS. Instead I interviewed three pond contractors that do nothing but dig ponds. And as much as I could tell from references and looking at their work they all know what they're doing.

I met all three on site, all told me I would most likely have to line the pond unless we were lucky enough to hit clay. Core samples down to 12' did not find clay.

The builder I picked was not the cheapest but had the most experience building ponds. He also has the least experience with clay as most of his work is done in Northern Michigan.

When we hit the Gray Clay he told me exactly what we needed to do. He is very confident the pond will seal but based on what I have read on this forum I now have my concerns.

While I appreciate and respect your advise I'm not sure there is more to do at this point other then let it rain and see if it holds. Perhaps I should have stayed with plan A using a liner.

However, if water is in fact seaping in from the bottom I will get the contractor back on site ASAP. BTW all three contractors told me they had no issues digging in the winter.

Evidently

Digging and building a pond in winter is probably pretty similar to warm weather work. Winter soil should compact properly as long as it is not frozen. The problem as I see it is after the contractor leaves the project. Our local good contractor and soils guy always says to fill it ASAP to reduce drying, cracking, freezing, thawing of the clay liner. The longer the side walls are exposed to the elements the more likely it will leak. Many here soon after the dirt work is completed, pump the pond full from a creek or ditch, sometimes 1/2 mi away. Irrigation pumps 4"-6" work good for filling a pond. There are irrigation pumps that are stand alone or operate on the PTO shaft of a tractor.

I am not trying to be negative and I hope your pond holds water well. But if it does leak and does not stay full you have several possible reasons why.

I agree with Bill.

Groundwater or a spring, it doesn't make a difference. Neither come with a one-way valve to only let water go one way. If a pond isn't sealed, both will add water to the pond because there is less pressure against the water in the pond area. Once the water in the pond (at the point of where it's leaking in) exceeds the pressure of the water in the ground, it will start to flow out of the pond. Roughly 1/2 psi for every foot depth of water.

re: clay. If you can take the clay and roll it between your palms and make a rope or a pencil out of it, then it's good for sealing the pond. If you can't, try adding or removing moisture. Even good clay can be too wet or too dry to compact properly.

Here's some reading for you if you haven't found it already:
http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/nrcs144p2_030362.pdf

I sure hope it works, and have a similar situation in Bridgeton with the soils and clay, but there is no way on God's Green Earth I would want to pay for the track hoe being in your hole in the ground.

Like you said, someone pointed you here to PB, and there is good reason for that.

Thanks again. I contacted the local NRCS for some advise. Better late then never. I did both the bucket and pencil test on the clay before we compacted it and I'm feeling good about the ability of the clay to seal the pond if properly installed/compacted.

A couple of thoughts about your comments. Would adding a layer of sand over the clay help insulate from freeze/thaw? I have a well, I could start to fill the pond but realistically it would take several weeks.

I get the part about making sure the bottom is tight. I still have the excavator on site if we need too add more layers of clay.

I will be back on site this weekend to see what it looks like and will post some additional pics.

Thanks again. I wish I had found this forum during the planning stages.

I would use the well even if it takes a month to fill the pond. Late winter and spring rains with your well water should have the pond full by early April. The sooner you get it full after they are finished the better. then you can asses the water holding ability. There are several good threads here to determine amount of leakage vs evaporation. You should be able to monitor water level up and down on your dock posts.

Thanks for the advise Bill.

I have read in several places where posters have dug separate wells to keep the pond level full. Other than be in close proximity to the water source what would be the advantage as I assume the water source (aquafier) would be one and the same.

I use one well but I had it drilled with the extra capacity required to support both the pond and the house. I can think of two reasons to drill a separate well for the pond. The first is the existing well does not have the required capacity and the second is the existing well is too far away from the pond.

Bill D.

Some wells access different water sources depending on depth and location of the well.

Wellll..... the pond is "finished". Its leaking water through the very bottom and sides at about 12' feet deep. You can see the dark covered (no snow) spots in the picture where its running in. Its just pushing right through the clay. Very clear water, a stream almost.

The builder thinks its a spring, says he packed it at 3' in the spot on the pictures. Not sure what to do at this point other than wait and see.

The strange thing is its only coming in from one side. If it were ground table water wouldnt it seap from all sides?

Depending on the height source of the spring, quite a lot of pressure could be present resulting an inability to plug it effectively. However, if there is quite a lot of pressure to the spring, it could mean a full pool unless leakage someplace else outpaces the gains from the spring.

It looks to be at or slightly below the water table......it will be interesting if it keeps flowing in after it hits what looks like equilibrium. It's coming in mostly from the side in about a 10x10 area.

We will continue to monitor it over the next few days that are going to be below frezing temps for the most part.

If it acts as a drain, keep the option open with the pond builder to drain the pond, and compact the clay over it later in 2015 when it's drier and warmer out. Say July/August/Sept.

I like that idea ESSUP, may have to delay adding fish this season.

One thing I had forgotten about before I built my pond on the lowest point of an 8 acre plot. The highest point always had a couple of spots where is was usually wet. I'm wondering if the watertable/springs are closer to the surface at the high spots and would flow down to the pond location about 250' away and 12' lower elevation.

There is always an opportunity to put in "farm tile" and drain the wet spots into the pond. You get to dry the spots, and gain water for your pond at the same time.

I actually thought about doing exactly that squid. I just got off the phone with the local NCRS and he told me about the same thing. The incoming water could be a confined aquifer, or it could be just ground water.

He suggested I let it fill as much as possible through the bottom with the spring water, maximize the watershed potential (drainage tile) sloped to the pond and top off with well water during the summer months as needed.

The only thing he could tell me about the gray clay is the reason for the color was because it was anaerobic, never exposed to oxygen, difficult to pack but dense at the same time.

Thanks for your help......building ponds is fun

thought I would share this midwinter picture of the pond.

another

You seem to have about as much of the white stuff as we do! Apart from two posts at the end of my dock, there is no indication we have a pond any more. Can't even walk the dog as the snow is beyond her back!

The first picture almost looks like sand dunes, not snow cover. Pretty cool pictures, glad we don't have that here.

Just a late winter update. Not much going on with pond activity with record low temperatures in February. We have not been above freezing temps for 18 days and have had many record setting lows including -17 last Friday.

Still, you can see a dark, bare (no snow) wet spot at around the area we have previously seen water trickle in at around the 15' deep mark. In the rest of the pond there is a good 20-24" of snow.

As a reminder the center depth of the pond is 28' deep. When I walked down near the opening I took one step too close and went through the clay all the way up to my groin. It was obviously very wet and completely took me by surprise as it was an area I had previously stood on. It was about 4' from a small opening in the iced over area.

What do you make of there still being a saturated area as well as an open ice area with the cold temperature we have been seeing? As moving water doesn't freeze as fast I'm assuming I have a spring or active ground water percolating. Still surprised it hasn't completely frozen shut.

Good/Bad? Wait till spring and we will find out?

Image of pond, snow covered pond with "open ares" where water is seeping in