New to PB and I really enjoy reading you guys' posts and learning new things. Only bad thing is that PB keeps me up too late and sometimes I cannot sleep because I have a zillion pond things running through my mind. I just bought a place here in central mississippi that has a 1.5 acre pond, I do not know much about it but I think it is an old pond but recently made deeper and trees/stumps added within the last 5 years. It is about 12 feet at the deepest, has plenty of shallow shaded areas and grass/trees around the edges. There is a ton of trees, timber, branches underwater, too much almost. I recently added 1000 FHM, 500 BG/CNBG, 50 CC, 50 HSB. I added the FHM and BG's to add to the forage base which I believe to be a bit lacking, there are huge BG's in there but I can only catch a few a day along with the smaller ones. The bass I've caught tend to be skinny and do range from 12" to 20+ inches. In the summer I would fish it in the evening for a few hours and on a good day I would catch 5-6 LMB...not many. I haven't sent a water sample off yet to test parameters but my water is clear but dark like tea. I didn't want to lime or fertilize until I know it is the right thing to do. Is the tea like water ok or is it a symptom of something? I'm just trying to grow a balanced fishery that I could have fun fishing at. I been fishing it for a week now and all I've caught is 1 LMB, of course dark but healthy looking fish 14" with a big belly on him.
I have SOME FA but for now mostly on the branches on the trees and on the bottom that I can see, not bad at all. The water was not this clear in the summer, I believe that the fish can see me in my boat and get spooked to feed. I have been feeding the fish pellet food for about 2 weeks now at 4pm and nothing comes up but a few small BG's. Trying to grow my pets big so they'll rip my drag!
It sounds like you might have a bass-heavy pond, i.e. one that is full of numerous, stunted LMB and relatively few, large BG. A real expert will post soon to give you some advice, but I would suggest you go fishing and take note of the species, length, and weight of each fish you catch for several consecutive sessions. That data alone will tell you a lot about your current population dynamics.
Oh yea, it was definitely bass heavy. There wasn't a whole lot if them numbers wise but the majority of them were skinny and one size, 14/15 inches. Thats why I added the FHM and BG's. I'll go buy a scale and fish measure and keep a log. So far its pretty easy...1 LMB..fat chunk lol
Here's a relative weight chart:
http://www.fish.state.pa.us/images/pages/fishin1/weightlength3.pdf Compare the length weight of your fish to this. If your fish weigh less, then the best thing to do is remove LMB. You won't be able to put enough fish in the pond to make a difference in the weight of the bass.
Welcome to PB. Can you post a pic of the pond with a date? Most central MS ponds need lime except for those in the delta. There are exceptions. Most are bass crowded also. Dark water in this area usually means acidic water which needs lime. Feeding will help as will improved water quality. If it is bass crowded then you can add adult BG/CNBG and that will help and so will removal of small skinny LMB. Twenty lbs. of poor conditioned LMB removed would be a good start and likely you need to remove 40 lbs..
Thank you for the replies and the nice welcomes. I will post a picture today but it will be from my cell phone and will be taken today so I doubt I can put a date on it. What are you looking for in the pictures Ewest so I know what to take for you. I was contemplating lime but the lime truck would have to make a heck of a climb/descent to get down to the pond to spread it.
I plan to start harvesting some of the more slow growing LMB and the skinny ones. Only problem here with harvesting is that it may take me a month to catch 20lbs worth of LMB lol. I'll have a better idea of what is in here once the water warms up and they start coming to the top half of the water to feed during dusk/dawn times. I've fished a few other ponds in this area in the last few weeks and have been catching in their ponds but when I get home I catch 1-2 fish a week.
You'd be surprised how many you can take out. Invite some friends...With four rods we took out sixty fish in an hour when we first started correcting our pond. Get a scale, a measuring tape, and a notebook and get some data!
Don't need a date on the pic just when it was taken. A pic of the water to gauge color and visibility (how deep you can see into the water). Also of the surrounding watershed (pines , oaks etc.) and dirt color.
You'd be surprised how many you can take out. Invite some friends...With four rods we took out sixty fish in an hour when we first started correcting our pond. Get a scale, a measuring tape, and a notebook and get some data!
Maybe they'll bite to where I could take some out. I've been fishing it for a few hours each outing at least three times a week...not much for biting so far
This was taken in late August, water was a lot murkier then.
The dam, the visibility is estimated 4-5 feet down, I can see things now that I could not see in the summer.
some water veggies--you can see the bottom here. the water depth where the weeds are is 6 inches but it goes down quickly. Where the clouds start it goes down to 2-3 feet.
Open water
The far back corner has tons of logs/trees in the water 1-2 feet depth.
All the pictures but the first one were taken today. It will probably hard to determine water color here because of the reflection of the bright blue sky
There are lots of leaves on the bottom around the tree'd edges of the pond, I realize that the decomposition of the leaves/tree limbs are probably adding to the water color.
I had a PH test strip kit that I used for my aquarium and I got the PH level at 6. It's not on the dot but it gives me an idea of where its at. I just need some parameters on the hardness and alkalinity now.
Here are some more bass that I caught during the summer August/September
Big head, small body--he went about 6ish pounds but he should have been well past that.
about a 15" fish
another long one, skinny with a huge head
You'd be surprised how many you can take out. Invite some friends...With four rods we took out sixty fish in an hour when we first started correcting our pond. Get a scale, a measuring tape, and a notebook and get some data!
Maybe they'll bite to where I could take some out. I've been fishing it for a few hours each outing at least three times a week...not much for biting so far
Are they spawning already? Ours won't spawn for another month so they are murdering small spinnerbaits, in-line spinners, and shallow-running squarebill crankbaits.
You can always try live-lining a 3" bluegill.
No sir, they aren't spawning yet, they're actively feeding on the bait that stays close to shore but after they swipe their prey they jet. I've been catching them at my in laws pond for the last three weeks on square a's, mepps spinners, and rooster tails but at my pond it's slow slow. I'm talking about 2 fish a week slow woth regular fishing. Beats me...I know they're here..maybe they're gorging on the new buffet of bait.
Get and alkalinity (water and or soil) test done. I am confident you need at least 2 tons of lime per acre. The water shows a plankton bloom/community but it is limited by water quality. I would guess your alkalinity is around 10 and needs to be at least 20. The fish condition strongly suggests LMB crowding.
Okay 1.5 ac pond can we assume that you verified the size on google earth? Build or buy a secchi disk to monitor your water clarity. Learn about it, use it, keep records along with your fish catch records. Create a pond log book of events.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92624#Post92624It is likely the previous owner allowed removal of fish before you arrived. Thus your numbers of LMB-BG are low. Skinny bass as you and others advise means food shortage due to too many predators. Your clearer stained water and low alkalinity, low pH means low productivity food chain. So unless you lime, fertilize and or feed fish expect low numbers and slower growth rates of all species. Note that a few (20-40) fish all species will grow fast and big in 1.5 ac if they are the only ones eating the food chain. Increase the numbers in that habitat and you get what you now have. Adding more fish into a low productivity food chain results in starvation for the masses and unbalance.
To get fish to eat pellets can often take a significant amount of effort. There are examples here on the forum of getting fish to eat pellets. In a question, ask how others have done it. 1. One good way to get fish eating pellets is to buy fish that are already trained. Bigger pellet trained fish are best so they do not become food themselves. They will tend to teach others about pellets. 2. Start with good premium, good tasting food. 3. In the beginning, try softening the pellets to offer to BG hanging near the dock. Low food production pond should have fish eager to eat offerings esp if food is soft and flavorful. YOu may have to start by feeding some BG at the dock chopped worms, hot dogs, chopped meat, chopped fish. Others may hopefully advise how they do it. Most of this info has been discussed here previously in old posts.
IMO remove every big bass you catch that is larger than 12". Achieve a fishery balance and create a productive habitat then manage that fishery for growing larger fish or a general high quality mixed size fishery. Lack of catching middle sized BG is a sign of too many big bass eating those middle sized BG. This can be good or bad depending on ones goals. Decide your goals then get advice here how to manage toward those goals. Big panfish, trophy bass, mixed generalized fishery choose one. It is very very difficult to have all three for the novice pond owner.
To catch your older smarter, larger bass you will probably need to resort to live fish as bait either FHM, GS, or small BG under a bobber. Keep good catch records of length and weights so you can see number wise if things are improving, staying constant or getting worse .
I'll get a water and soil sample done here soon. I have to send off a soil sample anyway for farm purposes anyway.
Thanks for the valuable replies Bill Cody and Ewest. I got the surface area of the pond using that acme planner site that was posted on here. I originally thought it was only an acre but that site said it was actually 1.62 acres.
What I'm reading here is that I shot myself in the foot by adding more mouths to feed in an already starving population? My intentions on adding fish was just to add more bait but the allure of hsb and cc took over my good senses.
Patience is not one of my best virtues but do understand that rushing in the pond world could mean catastrophe. I've owned several successful saltwater aquariums. I'll keep you guys updated on parameters and catches. Just to note, I added the bgs, fhm, and cc in January..hsb mid February
Oh and another thing..my in laws pond is chocked full of bg/hybrid bg but that's another story. Is it ok to catch bg and hbg from there to add to mine? The nearest fish farm to buy fish around here is 2+ hours away and it adds up quick
Adding the fish from the inlaws is okay and is best if they are eating pellets. Thus you get pellet trained fish. Adding BG is not real productive unless you are removing numerous bass (lions) from the 'barnyard'. The clear water means the lower end of the food chain (plankton & invertebrates) is low and will not support a lot more panfish than what you have unless productivity or pellets are increased. Reducing predators will help in reducing the predation pressure on the panfish. But without improving the food sources (food chain) additional panfish will be slow growing and thin bodied.
Lots of homework for you to do.
Read and study about carrying capacity.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92440#Post92440Learn about fish population analysis.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92492#Post92492
Thanks Bill, looks I have some weekend reading to do in between doing taxes here. That was the idea to add some fishies from the in law's pond because they are pellet trained and eat from pretty much anywhere that food is thrown around the pond banks at any time of day. It is all is making sense now on the waters ability to support the forage base, if I don't correct that first then any fish I'm adding is wasting money because although they will survive, they will not flourish.
I certainly understand impatience! But I saw results in a year after heavy harvest of LMB -- I doubled the average relative weight of my bass. Your mileage may vary, especially if fertility is an issue, but do what the experts like Bill Cody and others say and you will see the difference!
Thanks Bocomo....I'll do it because I want something I can enjoy having and will be able to look at it and say...yea...thats mine..something my family can come to and catch a fish or two and make memories with and hey, for my future children lol
Chicken I agree with Bocomo on this. Am attaching relative weight reports from my pond comparing 2008 to 2009. We began a rehab progam in 2008 harvesting 20 lbs of LMB per acre and saw quick improvement.
I have a few updates here, I have started logging data on my catches and for good measure I started harvesting the fish under the relative weight chart posted earlier or if they looked skinny. I've caught a total of 11 fish ranging from 11-16 inches. The 7 that were harvested were under weight a pretty good deal including a 16 incher that went 1.4 pounds, he looked ok but was just so dern skinny. I put the other 4 back that were nice and healthy. I am right about halfway to my 20 pound harvest for the year. If the water would ever get back to normal or if it'll stop raining once or twice a week I could do some more fishin!
I received my soil results back, I was told to do a soil analysis first then send the water sample off to be examined. They gave me results by extractable nutrient levels in lb/acre.
PH 5.5
Phosphorus 10 (very low)
Potassium 63
Calcium 62
Magnesium 115 (very high)
Zinc 1.9 (high)
Cation exchange capacity (CEC %OM) 3.2
It is recommended that I apply 1 ton of lime per acre.
Be sure that recommendation is for a lake/pond/water not for land application.
You need to know your alkalinity but it appears you are limited by P which is common for waters in MS (most locations outside the delta).
ewest, I was always under the impression the lime application recommendations were always base on surrounding soil tests due to the water typically mirroring the soil in the watershed.
Is there a difference for what would be applied in the BOW? Also, isn't a land lime recommendation given based on a single season's needs rather than providing for a longer term pH ammendment?
thanks ewest, I can call the msu extension office to make sure before I do anything. I sent the soil sample to them specifying that it was a pond soil test and it does say so on my test results. The extension office I go to (mendenhall) told me that they do not have the capabilities to do any water testing in house and that I would have to find a place to do that. Can I buy a kit somewhere like a pool store to determine hardness/alkalinity?
thanks ewest, I can call the msu extension office to make sure before I do anything. I sent the soil sample to them specifying that it was a pond soil test and it does say so on my test results. The extension office I go to (mendenhall) told me that they do not have the capabilities to do any water testing in house and that I would have to find a place to do that. Can I buy a kit somewhere like a pool store to determine hardness/alkalinity?
Johnny, most of those pool supply places will do the water sample tests in house for you at no charge. Some even supply a bottle to collect the water in.
might be a viable option there rainman....free is great too!
chickenjonny,
My pond is in Mississippi but I have gotten my water analyzed by LSU. Here is the address I found on my last results:
Soil Testing and Plant Analysis Laboratory
School of Plant, Environmental and Soil Sciences
Louisiana State University
Baton Rouge, LA 70803
Website:
www.lsuagcenter.com/stpal
did you have to fill out any forms when sending to LSU? I guess I can give them a call real quick
I "think" I just followed the link to "Contact the Soil Lab" and emailed with somebody who told me what to do but there are phone numbers there that may make the process a little faster.
