Hi, John here but go by snrub as my signature.

Never thought much about ponds. Then one day while gazing out over the pasture south of our house from the patio I made the off hand comment that a pond there might look nice, what did she think? Her comment was something on the order of "when are you going to start, when will it be finished and how big will it be?" You would think I would avoid making off the cuff comments to her after the one about taking the motorcycles to Alaska and three weeks later we were in Alaska for a 12,000 mile trip, but then I am a slow learner.
Maybe about 3/4 to an acre would be nice. "Not near big enough, needs to be much bigger." You realize as the size goes up the volume of dirt gets much larger, fast. How big? "The whole pasture would be nice".

Well she did not get the whole small pasture (had cows in it just the year before) but the majority of it. Basically the whole part that we could get to hold water behind a dam. So that was the initial venture into my ponding experience. I'll post a couple of pictures below. We do own a nice D6N XL dozer that we use on the farm courtesy of the housing crisis and the east coast was giving away used construction equipment for about half price. The "big" pond she wanted (as opposed to a small cow pond we are accustomed to in this area) gave me the perfect excuse to buy a 12 yard dirt scraper that I had wanted for the farm (clean out waterways and patch terraces) for years but had a hard time justifying the cost. We got started in the spring of 2012 (built the pond ourselves as you have now figured out) with most of the major cuts made, the core trench and majority of dam finished and the pond started filling by late that summer. We lined the bottom with top soil as muddy clay looking water like most of the new ponds in the area have would not do for wife to look at and NRCS said that would help with water clarity. We finished up some of the dam work as farm work time allowed that fall and through the next spring and stocked FHM and BG along with a few RES.

I don't fish. It just seemed like with such a nice pond it was a shame not to put some fish in, and I do have several employees that fish, who have kids that like to fish, and I have grandkids that like to fish. So we stocked fish. See where this is going from my original vision of a small 3/4 acre pond to look out over from the patio? It took on a life of its own.

Having seen some erosion as the pond was filling I hated to see the banks erode so we ended up putting lateral rock around the rim. The NRCS had designed a "bench" for erosion control but the rock just seemed like a good idea. Wanting to be able to walk around the pond in any weather we put crushed rock on the "bench" which was not planned in the beginning. More dollars worth of rock than I even care to think about, we have a nice place to walk or drive the 4 wheeler even right after a rain. I rarely miss going around the pond at least once daily.

Seemed like there ought to be a dock out there so we could sit on it and enjoy the sunset. 160' of 8" I beam and other assorted metal, a lot of treated lumber and 10 - 12-14" diameter Osage Orange (hedge locally) posts harvested off a tree row along with the help of three grandsons and a purchased used floating section from Craigs list and we have a beautiful 8' wide by 100' long dock that we enjoy a lot. The grandsons will enjoy that dock and remember the time we spent together building it for the rest of their life (the fact that it was an afterthought and we put over half of the posts in concrete in standing water and did the final install in the water after the pond was mostly full)

Did I mention I don't fish? I scuba dive and look at lots of fish under water with 100 foot visibility but have never had much interest in fishing other than taking the kids perch (green sunfish I have learned) fishing a few times when they were small. But someday I will get too decrepit to scuba dive so maybe I better make preparations for another hobby now. Takes time to grow fish. Put in the LMB and CC this fall.

Had no plans feeding them but the guy we got the fish from said it would sure make them reproduce better. Having paid a princely sum for something I had little care for catching after getting them, I darn sure wanted them to do at leastsomething like reproduce so started a limited feeding program. I enjoy feeding them so much and observing that it is sad that the water temperature is approaching a time to stop. Go figure.

Some stringy algae forming..................maybe I better check into aeration................ green slimy pond is unacceptable for wife to look at.

All this from a casual comment, almost a wistful one, to my wife. You would think I would learn.

Anyway we have a beautiful pond we enjoy to no end and it all seems worth it. All that from something I would never imagined I would enjoy two years ago, but here we are. Just discovered Pondboss forums a few weeks ago. Wish I would have known about it earlier.

Edit: Pond design ended up at 3.5 acres (Edit: measured acres ended up being 3.1 - I think the maximum possible was 3.5 and we decided on a slightly smaller footprint) and we added a little during construction so the shoreline had some "character" (wife is an artist) and a small shallower spawning area. So 3.5 acres plus (Edit: ended up 3.1). Pond from above picture shows the tops of some fish structure with the pond about 3-4 feet below full pool. Graveled outline is full pool line.

snrub

Fine looking "3/4 acre" pond!

Your wife seems to know what she is doing. Really nice pond!!!

very nice looking pond and dock looks like you have a great view

Cool place. Good story!

Hi Snrub, glad to see a neighbor on here. I have a strip pit lake just outside of Prescott.

John

Very nice Snrub.

KingRace that is a very cool looking and shaped pond you have. How deep is it and how many acres? More pics would be great too.

Really nice strip pit KingRace. Lot of surface area.

Zep that is a strip pit common to this area. It was where coal was strip mined and the water filled the dug area. Much of this mined land was "reclaimed" and made back into pasture and any of the more recent mining it was requirement that the land be leveled back out. But some remains to this day. What once was considered almost worthless land that could hardly be sold now brings premium price for recreation use.

There are quite a number of these "strip pits" around this area. Some owned and managed by fish and game, some private owned.

snrub

My goodness gracious, wish my wife would go along like that when I have casusal thoughts pour from my lips like rain on a spring morning.I usually get the " how much is this gonna cost " response. LOL All kidding aside, awesome place and beautiful pond. Only thing missing is me sitting on that dock.

My pit is about 19 acres of water. The deepest part is about 20 feet, it also has quite a bit of shallow water. The land is still pretty rough, the spoil piles are all overgrown with trees, and it makes a pretty interesting landscape. It would be nice to have a dozer to re-arrange some of the hills.

This is a link to previous post:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=20027&Number=258257#Post258257

Thanks
John

Someone ask me about stocking so thought would add it to this thread.

On March 19, 2013 we put in 1500 3-4" BG that had a few RES mixed (maybe 5-10%?)in along with 30# of FHM. The FHM reproduced fantastic and the BG biggest ones are around 5-6" this fall. Also have a bunch of new 3/4" to 2" BG so the original stock matured and spawned. Been hand feeding some floating and sinking catfish 32% pellets. About a half gallon a day lately. Not as much early on.

Then on September 2, 2013 stocked 350 6-8" CC and 350 LMB fingerlings. Amazing how fast those catfish grow with a little feed. Caught a couple and they had big fat bellies and about 10" long already.

Then November 5, 2013 stocked some more RES, another 125 3-4" to add to the what was in the initial stock. For a new pond we had a tremendous crop of snails so I wanted to make sure we had adequate RES to keep them in check.

In our renovated pond at the same time also put 125 RES and had caught 10 adult BG out of our new pond and put them in about September. Not exactly sure what I'm going to ultimately do with that pond as far as fish go. I may catch a few LMB and put in to keep the BG from getting out of hand.

Edit: I corrected the original stocking rates. I should have known not to rely on memory. I has originally said we only put in 750 BG instead of the 1500 we actually did. After measurement on Google Earth it appears the pond is 3.1 acres.

Also had request for more pictures so putting them here instead of in another thread.

Wife and a friend paddling our Paddle King boat.
Picture of dock that grandsons and I built.
If our fish finder is not lying, we have fish out the wazoo.

Nice place ! Thanks for the pics. That is a lot of CC so you may need to start harvesting them soon (2 lbs).

100 CC per acre or 350 on 3.5 acre pond.

I'll have to enlist some grandkids! Should be fun. They sure seemed to grow rapidly in the short time they have been in the pond (the fish in the pond, not the grandkids. They both seem to grow rapidly though).

Will probably take at least some out to stock sons pond and daughters pond (if I get hers refurbished, just been at it a couple days).

Edit: After measurement, the pond is only 3.1 acres.

Ya know, this is just one more example of just how expensive grandkids can be.

I corrected the stocking rates that were put in my pond in the earlier post. Might have known not to rely on memory. After looking up the three invoices added correct dates of stocking and we had put in 1500 BG/RES mix instead of the 750 earlier stated.

I think this is why esshup thought some stocking rates were off. I had mis-stated what I actually did.

Cool story. And good looking pond.

I am no pond expert. You are soon going to have pond full of good eating size fish You said you don't fish much, do you eat fish? CC, BG and RES are all delicious if you find the right recipe for you.

The cats are going to be overrunning that pond soon, and once they get to be about 12" or so, they are perfect for eating.

That could be a great pond for the kids to find out how much fun fishing is. And you too.

Thanks.

We have not eaten a lot of fish in the past (Long John Silvers every few weeks maybe ) but are planning on it. Esshup has already warned me that we should start harvesting CC when they reach 2# and that is my intention.

I much prefer the whiter, drier meat of LMB or BG than CC, BUT I have eaten CC that was cooked in breading in bite sized chunks where the breading got away from some of the "oiliness" that I don't care for as much in CC. So I think we will find some recipe's that we will like. My wife is a great cook (and I have a belly to prove it )so I am sure fish is going to be on the menu.

Also have a number of employees with families that like to fish and grandkids that like to fish. So I think we will figure out a way to harvest enough to keep up with it. We will give it the good ole try anyway.

I think we will have some BG and CC ready to eat later this spring or summer.

P.S. Wife and I did catch a few BG just to get a better idea of the size they were getting last fall, and I had to admit, it was fun. I think I just never had enough time when younger to get involved with fishing. Scuba diving and motorcycle riding are my first loves when it comes to hobby's and there are only so many hours in the day when a guy is trying to raise a family and make a living. But now with more time since being semi-retired (employees would argue fully retired), fishing may appeal more to me than before. Looking forward to spring anyway. Thanks for the reply.

When you clean the CC, under the skin near the center on each side of the fish is some darker colored meat. Trim that away and toss it. The CC will taste less oily/fishy. The colder the water that they are caught from, the better they taste. To me, the meat isn't as firm on larger fish as it is on smaller ones.

My older CC's have meat that is rubbery. Not much enthusiasm for eating that stuff.

Amen to the above. Down in Alabama, I raised my daughter out catfishing I think. Stop by the grocery to get chicken livers and head to the pond for the evening. We ate the 2-4 pounders. I love catching those 8 and 12 pounders (6 lb line- work them easy), but they aren't worth eating.
Sometimes the wife soaked in milk, but the younguns didn't need it to get rid of the fishiness. Cornmeal with some spices and fry..

Thanks for all that info. Will pass it along to the "chief cook".

I see lots of demonstrations on U-tube for both ways to clean different fish as well as different ways to prepare them.

Comes closer time to actually doing it, will search PBF because I remember reading of some recipes in old threads.

Nice looking place you have there snrub, congratulations. If you don't mind me asking, I was wondering where you purchased your paddle boat? The wife has been talking about getting one and yours looks like a good one.

Ok, you did not ask for a story, but you are going to get one.

But first will answer your question, so I do not forget. The paddle boat is a Paddle King and we really like it. It is not inexpensive, but a quality aluminum boat that should last many years.

Paddle King

Note: Hey Lusk, you ought to hit these guys up to be advertisers. These are great boats and this would be a great site to promote them. Guess that should have been a private message - too late.

The story. We started out, as I usually do, cheap. It's in my nature. My parents were married at the depth of the Great Depression and I grew up in a frugal, religious household.

Wal-Mart sells via on line order the relatively inexpensive plastic pedal boat we thought we wanted. I looked at lots of different brands. Ordered it in March. Plenty of time to get it for the summer in our new pond. 8 weeks later special shipping company delivered it. Fork lift holes in the bottom. Sent it back. Month later finally get credit and second one shipped out. Still time for summer use. Waited. Waited. Forgot about it. Called. It had been shipped but shipping company had caught the holes in it this time so took it back before it ever got to our place. Summer is here. Talked to Wal-Mart and they were going to ship out another. Week went by they called and said their system did not allow for the third try, would have to put in a new order. Canceled. Money refunded. Disappointed. Summer mostly over. Looked around for one locally but no luck.

The more I thought about the little plastic boat the less I liked the idea. First let me say they get pretty good reviews and at about $600 they are affordable. I think they would be great for 30 year old couple with small kids. But wife and I will be 60 this spring. Stepping into a tippy plastic boat off our dock made me have second thoughts. I go swimming in our pond but wife has no desire to and her first fall into the water from a tippy boat suddenly did not leave a pleasant picture in my mind.

So I started doing internet searches. Lot of reading. Ran across Paddle King and it looked super. Waaaay more money that we planned on spending (isn't it always). But it was aluminum. Even if it got a hole eventually we have a welder 3 miles away that can repair anything on it. It would last our lifetime likely if we gave it any care at all. It was stable. I can walk all the way around it with or without wife aboard easily without fear of tipping. I put my diffuser in place with it. I put a fish finder on it. With a little luck and sweet talk I am expecting an underwater fish camera present to find its way to my birthday dinner. IT IS DRY WELL. Let me repeat that. The pedals are above water level, so the water freely drains out. Lots of features the cheap boats do not have.

Looked up dealer network. Witichita (3 hours away) dealer had two and a trailer. Went out and bought it and put it in the water. Have not regretted it. Paddles easy. Fun to use. Room for 4 if all 4 are not too big (800#).

We have the four people version because we have grandkids. I will say one thing, if all you are ever going to want on the boat is 2 people, I would go with the 2 person. With two people in the 4 person boat, it is a little front heavy. Not enough to bother anything except in wind. With the back up a little, the wind will tend to push the back end around worse than if we have one in the front seat and one in the back. Somehow my wife does not want to be on the peddaling end if we do it that way. One in each seat (front and back) boat is balanced and wind does not bother it as bad. You do not want this boat out in heavy wind anyway as going with the wind is a breeze so to speak, but it puts up enough of a sail effect it is not as much fun in 20 mph wind. The 2 person boat would be better balanced if all you ever need is 2 person capability. The 4 person has a lot higher max weight capacity though.

We have no regrets buying it. We bought the table accessory which is nice to mount fish finder and has built in drink holders. We bought a swimming ladder but have to install yet before we put it back in the water this spring. Good if you fall in, which we have not yet.

Long story. Hope it helps you out.

Exactly the info I was looking for, thanks. I am also 3 hours from Wichita, so I'll have to check them out.

Just noticed where you were from. Same neck of the woods.

I am about as far SE Kansas as you can get. Any farther and I'd be in either MO or OK.

Just an update in the continuing pond saga. Installed one of what should eventually be three aeration diffusers.

I had used this pump and diffuser for a few weeks last fall as a temporary setup to try out aeration and see if it was something to pursue. I then took it out and put in storage as did not have time to complete the permanent installation last fall before retreating to warmer climates for the winter. That is why the diffuser is dusty.

This is a Pondmaster pump setup (cheap Chinese junk) that is running about 3 psi. Should be getting around 3 cfm at that back pressure. Getting a really good boil out at the pond surface. Diffuser is set in what is now about 7' of water as the pond is about a foot or a little more low currently. The diffuser is on a platform so probably a foot off the bottom so the pump should be looking at about 6' of water head pressure currently and when we get some rain to fill the pond about 7 or 7.5'. That is about as much as a person should ask from a linear diaphragm compressor. They will work up to 10' or so, but the cfm falls rapidly with depth (back pressure) and will stall out with zero cfm somewhere around 11-12' depending on the pump model. Here is an old thread when I was researching pump capabilities.
Pump depth vs cfm for linear pump model Linear diaphragm pumps are only suitable for shallow depths.

I bought the first pump as a temporary experiment, but it worked well enough am now going to just use 3 of them. I don't expect to get the life of a high end piston or vane aeration pump, but the linear diaphragm are cheap to rebuild or even replace. They are also very energy efficient, at shallow depths (waste of time or unusable at deeper depths). My best guess is at some point in the future I will abandon them and put in a good compressor. Everything I'm doing as far as diffusers and line, I'm doing with that possibility in mind going forward.

This is the southern diffuser. Will soon add another just like it in the middle of the pond, and another in the north end for three diffusers total. Will have three identical pumps with each pump on its own diffuser. This will allow me to put timers on each individual pump if I so desire later and not have to run all of them all the time or have to bleed off air to run fewer diffusers. Each pump runs about 108 watts power requirement.

Two boys in the pictures are grandsons helping me out with the project, earning them a little spending money in the process.

I'm a little too cheap for my own good at times, and sinking air line is one place I scrimped that it cost me. It cost me some cold time in the water putting concrete blocks on the 3/4" water line to keep it from floating. Burrrrrr. Fortunately for me grandsons are gullible and one of them did most of the breath holding and placing the block over the line in the cold water. (we did have diving wet suits up in the garage but not smart enough to put them on......... it was a nice sunny warm day anyway so what the heck). I'm taller though so got to do the deeper ones and the last few had to do from the boat. Will need to put scuba on later and do a better job on the deeper ones. Sinking line works SOOOOOO much better. Oh well. I put 50' of 5/8 sinking at the diffuser so I can lift it out of the water and move it around if I want without disturbing the floating line and blocks, but the rest of the run if I remember right is two hundred feet of the 3/4 water line, for a total run of 250'.

The middle diffuser will be a little shorter run and the north about the same as the south.

We are very fortunate to have our own (very old but low hour'd) trencher that we use around the farm, so digging the line from the water line to where the pump will sit was done in short order. After getting all three lines and diffusers installed, will pour a small concrete pad and build a dog house sized building to house the pumps. Will make it big enough and in such a way if I ever want to go to a nicer, larger aeration pump that will run all three diffusers, it should be as simple as setting the new pump in the house and plumbing it in. Plan on making the roof on hinges so the top will open up for access to the pumps. Projects, projects, projects. Hope to get all this done by early summer.

Thought I would put this as an update to my introduction thread about where the pond is evolving.

This is an update to my introduction thread with some links to some major projects around our pond.

Built a forage pond to supplement the main pond

Built sediment pond to control water inflow to main pond

The Rock

My fight with FA

Fight with GSF that overrun my old refurbished pond

Built another one acre pond specifically for RES

Snrub's Pond Boss forum 2018 informal get together at his place

RESxGSF hybrid thread

Snrub I have really enjoyed reading how your simple off hand comment that a pond there might look nice in the field, and what did your wife think about the idea and how it ended up into such a huge project.

My story was similar with a wet spot in the field and ended with a pond and woods from scratch. And three boats later burned because of dammage or just being too heavy or not being able to give them away. All from a wet spot in the field.

I considered the burning in the pond like a viking scene but didn't want the debris in the water.

Yesterday

I've also enjoyed your thread John and seeing your pictures.

It is funny how serendipity leads our lives sometimes. I had never hardly given a second thought to ponds or freshwater fish before starting our pond "saga". It has turned out to be one of my main hobbies and sources of enjoyment during retirement.

Carolynn gets me into things sometimes (like our house remodel, we will not get started on that) that I just shake my head and wonder how I ever got into THIS. But it almost always turns out good. She is so darn smart. Don't know how I got so lucky.

Glad you have enjoyed it with me in this thread.

Your burning boat would have definitely looked cool on the water. But I would have had the same concerns.

P.S. Wife loves your wooden canoe. So do I. Beautiful.

Sunset over the pond.

]

Sunset over our pond

Snrub, you have beautiful pictures with much inspiration from your pond no doubt. Your expansion of your pond dreams are very exciting to many of us. Having one's own bulldozer as you do would be a dream for projects doers. My pond as I have said before, from it's conception to now has led me and not the reverse. Who Knows what's next?

As I look back 20 years now from the wet spot in the field that started this, here is what has happened.

Built the pond.

Planted a forest around it.

Built boats to look for plants in lakes and streams.

Built the foam island that now has been in the water for three years.

Became a nature watcher.

Started to take pictures of nature, which has led to,,,,,

Joining an art association to show photo's,,,,

Leading to learning Photoshop which enabled me to put together several photo's I have taken at the pond to make the picture below. The background night lilies are not mine and the center bottom tropical lily is not mine.

All from a wet spot in a field.

What bird is that John? Is it a type of Cormorant?

My wife is an artist and also an avid underwater photographer. Mostly macro. She does not do much photography above water. Although she takes a closeup of about every flower she sees if she has a camera handy.

Wife's art and photography

Carolynnburns.com

Looks like a heron of some kind. They roam the ditches around my neck of the woods



Pat W

Maybe a green Heron?

Pond is coming around. Caught a couple 8" BG recently.

Sorry about poor second picture. Wife and I both had fish on at same time and I was trying to juggle phone and take a picture.

But the pond is progressing. Wish I could get some better quality feed, but all I have fed is the 32% catfish food and a little bit of 36% Cargill game chow that I could get my hands on.

I'm happy with the results so far.

Mini crank strikes again....that LMB pattern is killer for big gills.

I'll say one thing positive about FA. It sure makes for some good refuge for small fish and tadpoles. Went around the ponds tonight to see what I could see and saw thousands of small BG and FHM along with some tadpoles using the FA and protected areas of water protected by the FA to sleep. Quite a number of leopard frogs and this one nice hand size bullfrog.

I've always wondered if frogs ate fish. While I was watching this one and taking pictures ever closer, a FHM swam around and nudged up against the frog. As the minnow touched the frogs front legs the frog went after it. He missed it, but the way he attacked I'm satisfied the frog successfully gets some small fish.

I have a very small seasonal pond that is now holding water. I tossed in about 20 BG and GSF plus about 50 FHMs to control mosquitoes. The flooded weeds, now dead, are loaded with leapord frog tadpoles.

snrub,
I love it when a big BG nails a baby bass crank...li'l crawfish cranks of the same size work very well too.

So can a 8 inch cnbg actually eat a real 2 inch lmb?

James,
I think if a big BG can get it in it's mouth, it's absolutely possible. A few years back I was throwing a 4" wooden top water lure (frog color) in a 75 acre lake. A fish came up from underneath and knocked it out of the water 3 times. The third time, he managed to get the entire treble hook in its mouth. It turned out to be a huge BG. Thing I never figured out was whether the big BG was trying to eat the lure or just trying to scare it away.
Charlie

I've wondered that myself. If the BG is just being territorial and chasing something away, or if it really intends to eat what it is attacking.

I'm beginning to believe they are actually trying to eat it. I think if a big BG hit a fish hard enough to stun it, they might be able to tear it apart and eat it. They will tear into crayfish and other critters too big to swallow and bust them up enough to eat.

Was fishing off the dock tonight using that same crankbait as above and noticed small BG following it up close to the dock. I would let it float and lay in the water near the dock and just watch the BG. 3-4" fish would take a run at it and sometimes bump it and sometimes just miss. But even fish hardly bigger than the bait itself would nip at it.

Caught a couple 8" BG, one about 7" and one about 5" with that crankbait tonight.

One grandson last summer found out why I always wear a T shirt while swimming in the pond. Bout a 4" BG nailed him on the nipple and he let out a shriek. I think those fish just bite whatever seems like might be edible and hope a chunk comes off. Pretty sure the fish wasn't planning on eating all of him.

Dave as I rode around the main pond tonight spraying my FA I noticed large numbers of tadpoles. Was kind of surprised to see that many where there are LMB in the pond. I had about a 2-4' wide band of FA around the pond edge and the tadpoles (along with loads of FHM fry) were right along the bank in a band of 4" clear water right against the shore line. They were using the FA as a shield kept between them and the predators. I have loads of frogs (and toads) this year.

My Leapord Frog tadpoles are, at this time, no longer that 3/4 inch. Nothing much messes with them.

I went out really early this morning (3 am). I think most of the tadpoles I am seeing around my main pond must be bullfrogs. Hundreds of them and I'm probably only seeing a fraction of what is there with the FA around the bank. They are 3"+ long and some already have rear legs. In a small puddle between my pre-sediment and sediment ponds from recent rains I saw tiny tadpoles maybe a quarter inch long and black. Don't know what they are.

All doubt is removed from my mind on the question about bullfrogs eating fish. I saw the frog in the first picture and thought "wonder how often that happens?". Then 25 feet more down the bank (forage pond where there are lots of FHM) was the second frog also with a fish tail sticking out his mouth.

Finally got my housing built for the aeration system. Took me long enough. I made it plenty large so if I ever want to put a "real" pump in place of the current four Pondmaster AP100's there will be plenty of room to work in.

There are three double 9" Matala diffusers in the main pond each driven by its own pump, then the 4th pump splits into two lines, one going to the sediment pond and one going to the forage pond each with a single 9" Matala diffuser.

Insulation in the lid was because I have truck loads of scraps out of the turkey barns we tore down and I figured it would help keep the sun from heating the building up so bad. I know standing in a shed with a tin roof on a hot sunny day it almost feels like the sun is coming through the tin it is so hot, so figured the insulation would help with that. There is an air gap at each end of the insulation and both ends of the lid is vented so heat can rise and go out the ends. Then there is also louvered vents in each end wall of the building for ventilation.

I placed a plastic container around the pipes where they enter so the concrete is only about an inch thick for about a 6" circle around the pipes. That way if I ever need to replace or add another pipe I only have an inch of concrete to break up and dig under the corner to get a pipe fed up through the floor. I set the pumps up on a board instead of the concrete so I could get some more height so the tubing would run down hill from the pumps to keep any condensation flowing away from the pumps.

As far as metal color selection, the tin was from scraps I had laying around from other roofing projects. Not exactly a perfect combination, but it still sheds the rain. The ends on the lid was some excess vented soffit material I had.

Pictures below. Concrete and frame done last fall, put tin on and finished it recently.

Some sample fish from the pond. The LMB I should have culled. I've caught several 15" and this one did not even make it to a foot in length. Must be a runt, but I did not think of culling it till it was already back in the water.

Housing looks great!!! Fish too.

snrub, your fish look good to me and like Tbar said the housing for the air looks good also. I have no skills @ such things but your design is something for me to work towards. And I can see a movie being made about snrubs frogs. "Attack of the Kansas frogs" they will eat anything !! They may eat any baby snakes that might show up.

Tracy

Grandson and a friend doing a little harvesting on a rainy summer day. CC running in the 1 1/2 up to 2# range and the BG 7-9".

Awesome man!

Starting to get some nice sized fish in the pond. Wife, grandson and I caught some fish today, fried them up, and along with some fresh garden tomatoes, corn on the cob, and new potatoes had a wonderful farm raised meal tonight. YUM. Caught them, cleaned them and the three of us in the kitchen prepared it all then had a great supper. Nice quality time together.

Caught a couple CC, one about 1.4# and the other right at 2#. Also a couple nice 7.5-8" BG right around a half pound, and I caught the very nice HBG pictured below at 9.5" and .83#. That is the size fish I would like to see a lot of in the pond. Nice fillets. Talk about some good eating.

I do like those HBG. Don't get as tall as the BG, but talk about meaty thick fillets!

Planted a couple different varieties of Rush around the main pond. Hope they are good kinds. Got them locally.

The first three pictures are what I believe to be a variety of Spike Rush but would not swear to it. Just planted about eight spots around the main pond about a week ago. Will see if they take hold. The pictures are from a stand that came in naturally from my old refurbished pond. It appears to have some seed and is only about 4" tall.

The last two pictures are of what I believe may be Soft Rush but there are supposed to be hundreds of variety of rush's so who knows???? I have 4 spots around the main pond where it was planted early this summer and it appears to have taken hold just fine.

Also planted what we call Arrowhead although the shape of the arrow head is nothing like in the pictures at Tamu. Really wanted it to get going. Wife has been raising it in the concrete pond with success. Grows in local seasonal creeks well. But right after planting it we got rain that brought water up enough so that (I assume) my two grass carp made short order of my plantings and grubbed them off at ground level. So no go on it. Did get a bunch of seed from wifes plants and scattered around pond so maybe next year. This is what Tamu has for Arrowhead Arrowhead - Bulls tongue but ours has a different shape arrowhead. Or maybe it is something else, but have not found a picture that matches.

Have some rush's starting on their own (birds brought in maybe???) in the sediment pond. Not sure of variety.

I think this is the variety of Arrowhead we have locally.

Arrowhead

I know nothing about Rush. What are you trying to accomplish?

snrub, I have had some rush that came up in one are of the pond, along the shore line. But with the drought we had here in E Texas, it died out when the pond dropped a couple of feet. It looked like what you are calling soft rush. And my crawfish have pretty much eliminated most everything that has tried to grow in the water.

Tracy

Just some vegetation that looks decent along the shore line but that will not get excessive growth. Wife likes the looks of the Arrowhead and the rush does not get too big or can be mowed.

Some vegetation basically. Something to help use some of the excessive nutrients.

The spike rush grows in the old pond where most of the water enters from the nearby field. Looks like it provides erosion control there.

FWIW Water Arum, Pickerel Plant, Lizard Tail and Duck Potato might be few more marginal options for you.

My Soft Rush drowned. I planted it too close to the shore and then the water level came up 3 or 4 feet for several weeks. The Creeping Rush (common rush) survived and went on to thrive. I planted Knob Rush from seed in small biodegradable pots. Time will tell if they make it.

Ok, thanks Bill. What I have planted so far has been stuff that is available on the farm in native locations.

Wish I had that option! I did find a couple of places I can find a decent assortment of plants, in small quantities at a reasonable price. I am experimenting and learning as I go as there is really not much info available I've been able to find on how to plant. I planted small quantities and will see what thrives in my conditions and go from there. My goal is the same as yours. I just want to get some desirable vegetation going before the undesirable guys show up!

Edit: Maybe worth noting, I see what appears to be one plant of American Pond Weed growing in the shallows. If it comes back next year, I will post pics for a positive ID.

Got back from over wintering to hungry BG on March 2. When I drove around the pond, they swam right toward the 4 wheeler. Tossed a little feed out and they cleaned it up pronto.

Checked water temp yesterday and it is at 52, so it looks as if feeding season has started. Likely will have another short bout of cold weather again and if we get cold rains might have to stop for a while, but today it is beautiful.

Been dry since the earlier flooding (where I was told water was flowing over the emergency overflow) so water is down about 9". FA growing like gangbusters so put out some Cutrine granuals a couple days ago.

Caught first BG of the year. Nothing spectucular, but probably in the 7-8" range.

The start of a new season.

I am starting to get FA too. Does Cutrine kill the snails that RES eat?

My BG are starting to take a little food too. We have had only a little over 2 inches of rain so far this year, mostly in past two weeks.

Time to fish now, but my pond is not ready. Maybe if CC grow well this year, I can catch some out in October.

I don't know if Cutrine is damaging to snails of not. Maybe the experts can help. I don't think there will be any shortage of food for the snails even after killing some of the FA, but the copper itself may be an issue.

Went out a while this late afternoon with the intention of catching and releasing a bunch of BG. It amazes me how what seems like thousands of 6-7" BG show up the minute I drive the 4 wheeler around and want feed. And will clean up the feed I am feeding pronto. But throw a hook and line in and.............. lock jaw. I caught about three but expected them to be jumping on the hook the way they were hitting feed. Maybe I'm just a poor angler, which is entirely possible.

But did hook into a 3.15# CC that I did not expect. Had not seen any CC hitting feed yet. Time to harvest cats!

snrub,
The very best bait I have found for BG is a 1/64 ounce chartreuse jig with #8 hook tipped with a Berkley Gulp Alive Chartreuse Waxie. This combo outperforms earthworms at least three to one in numbers caught for time spent. I use this on a 12 foot Mr Crappie rod with 4 or 6 pound line. Just swing it out with about 10 or 12 feet of line out and swim it around about a foot or two off the bottom. That's how I caught all 30 of my brood BG out of a friend's pond.

Grandson and three buddies went CC fishing yesterday late afternoon and till about 11pm. Caught 22. The one I weighed early on was 2.05# and the other 5 at the time were about the same size with a couple maybe 2.5#. Did not see the rest as I went inside. Biggest I have caught is a little over 3#.

Am guessing with those 22 we have taken about 125 of the original 300 stocked out now.

The boys (high school graduate age) had a lot of fun.

Nice HBG caught yesterday. Largest to date. Have not caught any of the original stocked HBG (accidentally -about 30 total) for a long time because I fished the limited number out and moved to my old pond. That was before I decided I really liked HBG. This was one I had missed earlier. All the other hybrids that I have caught have been more recent introductions that naturally occurred in my sediment pond and I moved to the main pond. They are all smaller. Looking at this nice fish, wish I would have left them in the main pond!

Also caught a BG about the same weight but a half inch shorter. Had him laid out beside the tape just like the HBG pictured and when I snapped the digital picture the fish snapped and landed on the ground all covered in dirt. I got a picture of the tail gate and the fish went back in the water. But every bit as nice as the HBG pictured. Now if I could only get more of those 7-8" fish up in this range.

The second picture is something I did not expect to see. We cleaned some CC a couple weeks ago filled with eggs, but did not expect to see this little guy on the end of my hook about sunset. My wife was ecstatic to see the reproduction. I'm just hoping the CC don't get carried away with reproduction and the LMB can keep them in check. Was not really wanting to see this little guy but made my wife happy so not all bad.

Sprkplug built a nice fish cleaning station some time back that inspired me to create one also.

Bought a ready made fish cleaning table and was going to attach it to my dock. But I worried about it not being sturdy and the wind blowing it away. The more I looked at attaching it, I just decided to build a table to set the pre-made table on and just use the top. The legs are still folded up underneath the top in case I ever want to take it apart and just use the table separate.

The whole thing is hooked up to a freeze proof hydrant I installed at the end of the dock, via a garden hose. I also added a short hose and spray nozzle so we can simply spray the whole shebang down when finished cleaning fish. We have two 15x20" cutting boards. One fits on top the plastic table and the other over the boards at the sink end. The hole in the table goes to a 5 gallon bucket held on the lower table for the fish scraps. The plastic table came with a filet knife and a couple stainless steel bowls that fit in the recessed area of the table.

The whole thing is attached to the steel I beam dock frame via the steel pipe railing.

Even though mine is quite different, thanks Sprkplug for the pictures of your fish cleaning station that inspired me to make one. Pictures below.

Very cool setup! The inspiration is officially contagious! And your dock is also awesome, by the way....

Not the biggest rain events we have ever had here in SE Ks but enough to make the emergency overflow run. My pond has seen water go over the emergency overflow before, but never when we have been at home. So this is my first chance to see what it looked like. I had tried to envision it, but had fallen short. I had no idea how easy it would be for creek fish to contaminate my pond. May be the answer where a few of the fish that have surprised me came from.

For fish to come from the creek, swim up the emergency overflow, and get into the pond, they first have to BE in the creek. The creek is a seasonal creek and can go completely dry. So for fish to be in it, there first has to be a big enough rain for water to flow to the main creek about a half mile away. Once fish populate the puddles and holes that remain (sometimes for the whole summer, in a drought year they dry up), then a subsequent large rain event like the one July 3rd can back water up to the point my emergency overflow can connect with this creek. Pictures below of it doing just that, and we had a high water event earlier this year where I saw 2.5' carp in the small creek.

I never saw any fish swimming up the overflow water, though at its maximum flow small ones sure could have. There were hundreds and hundreds of BG from yolk sac up to a couple of inches and gambusia that went into the creek and got stuck in the grass as the water quit flowing though.

I could hear the 8" overflow pipe on the opposite side of the pond sucking air down a vortex all the way across the pond at my patio.

Interesting.

Wish we could have gotten a rain like that! We had less than an inch on the third, and it came rather slowly. The pond only raised less than an inch. We are in a drought locally. Some areas around here within seven miles got over 2.5 inches in a couple of hours on the first, only 0.3 inches here. If this trend of rain missing us by a few miles continues, I fear to lose all my fish. The creek has dried up already too.

I wish you would have gotten some of this. 1.5" on the second which was fine then 4.4 on the third and it came fast and hard. Still have about one third of our soybeans to replant because of wet fields and it is getting late. But would much rather have too wet than too dry like you. Hope you get some.

Got a jar of the chartreuse waxies like you left me but I don't think they are quite as good as the ones you gave me. They catch fish just as well but it seems like they are of a less firm foam material and they come off the hook easier. I only get one or two fish before I have to replace. I was getting 4 or 5 per baiting with yours. These are about the same consistency as the Gulp pink maggots I got, which seem to catch BG very well also.

Trying to thin out my 6.5-7.5" range BG. Seems like I have a huge number of that size and few LMB large enough to eat them. Have cleaned a couple batches of 30. Not sure I am making a dent in the population but they sure tasted good. Putting the bigger ones (8-9"+)back in for my brood stock to make more babies.

Hope you get some rain. We are doing a motorcycle ride tomorrow with wife, daughter and grandson to Eureka Springs. Then next day south on the Pig Trail. Will wave as we go by!

Edit: Fish cleaning table works great! Wife loves it. No more mess or smell in the kitchen.

Update on the fish cleaning station. Works great. Wife cleaned a couple batches of 30 BG and a couple CC recently and I cleaned 42 BG today.

This project was one of those that I figured we would either use it a lot, or it would set there mostly unused and a waste of time. Well it looks like we are going to use it a lot. I would be half afraid to clean fish in our kitchen. I'm a bit sloppy. But at the fish cleaning station just hose it down before beginning to make sure it is clean, clean the fish, then hose it all down again. Cleanup is a breeze.

A few BG from last night. I can not tell if the first two are from my original stocking March 2013 or if they are from the first years spawn. If they are originals they have kind of stalled out on growth. Nice enough fish, just not terribly large for the age. The third picture is of a CNBG and I know for a fact it had to be one I moved from my sediment pond over to this main pond because the original stocking was regular BG. The CNBG were stocked in the sediment pond in 2014 I believe October. So the CNBG would be a two year old fish. I measured them and all are about 8" give or take a little.

I'm getting an over population of BG and not enough recruitment of LMB to control them. So the plan is this fall to get another 50 LMB fingerlings, put them in the sediment pond where there are no predators, let them grow to about a foot or 14" length, fish most of them out and transfer to this main pond to help with the BG control.

After three years and considerable thought, the decision was made to raise the pond level another 8". I had already raised it 4 additional inches over design right after construction was finished. I'm not afraid of doing this because when we originally built the pond the "bench" which was designed to prevent bank erosion which was designed to be 5' wide. Well I had trouble figuring out how to make a 5' wide bench with the dozer and get it done properly so instead it ended up being about 12' wide. That made the entire dam structure at full pool water level about 7' thicker than originally designed. So the dam has plenty of "meat" to handle the additional water. It also was designed to have 3' of dam above water level at full pool and we still have that even after adding this additional 8". So we kind of over did the dam, which turned out to be a good thing for this project of raising the water a full 12" over what was originally designed.

Actually when the NRCS did the original elevation shots it was determined that the absolute maximum size of the pond could be 3.5 acres. But at that height the water would be to the top of the hill and would actually be running into the SW corner of one of our machine sheds. Which was an undesirable feature. So we scaled the pond back to 3.1 acres where it is now. But in the mean time we also built a forage pond and sediment pond near the shed mentioned. We used some of the dirt removed to raise the floor in the shed and the sediment pond was between the main pond and the shed. All this having been done, it now allows us to raise the pond the additional foot (which was close to the water level in the 3.5 acre design) but still have about 3.1 acres.

Luckily when I built the dock, not knowing exactly how close I wanted the bottom of the structure, it ended up being a little higher than needed. The floating dock portion always had the ramp sloped down to it. This was sheer dumb luck, because had I not got it a little high to begin with I would not have been able to raise the water level. With the additional 8" now the floating dock sits nearly level with the main dock.

Well if anyone is actually still reading this long winded description, the actual raising of the water was supposed to be the easy part. I ordered a 8" "pipe extender" (made to go inside and extend a plastic pipe) and an 8" plastic elbow to go in the 8" overflow pipe. Stick the pipe extender in the overflow pipe, cut the plastic 90 degree elbow to the right height for the correct water level, glue it, and done. Sure thing. Easy peasy. Well the pipe I had used in the original raising of 4" that was used to cross the "bench" area was a scrap. I had encased it in concrete and it had worked fine for 3 years. Problem was the "scrap" was somewhat oblong in shape and not quite to proper size. The pipe extender would not fit inside. Was not going to fit and seal. So after much consternation I took what was supposed to be an easy installation, modified it with jig saw so the lower part would fit in, wrapped it with rubber tape to form a seal, formed up the whole thing and poured concrete around it. So the pictures below show the finished product of what was supposed to take an hour that turned out ten times the project originally intended.

The good news is it worked out pretty well. Original concrete overflow end was just beyond the steel posts in the pictures.

Thanks for the update. Your pond will be even better now, especially in the upper end. You will be glad for the extra water to help ride through the inevitable drought periods of SE Kansas.

This is what the new water level looks like running at 4" over the new full pool level or in other words 12" over what was the old full pool level.
I knew on part of the bench I would need to add two or three inches of gravel to get it back up level with full pool water level. The south part of the pond was ok as it has always been a little "high". But it looks like I will need more like 3-4" on part of it. A little more than I thought or else I got the plastic 90 cut off a little higher than I thought.

Will know closer for sure when the water drains down to full pool. The road is solid (already rock underneath) and I have already been hauling and dumping some crushed rock on it using a tractor loader. When the water gets down I will do the final grading.

I have not been happy with my LMB recruitment, having never seen any small LMB in the shallows and LMB being extremely hard to catch. Since I am trying for a pan fish pond, there should be numerous 12" LMB and I would think I should be catching at least some of them while fishing for BG. Nada. Not happening.

So I decided to go pro-active and put in some more LMB.

Picked up 100 LMB fingerlings from the Dunn's route truck. They were 3-4" long and looked to be healthy and active. Now I am aware that stocking small bass in a pond with big bass might be just making the big bass happy with bass snacks. But with the abundance of small BG I have and with the additional water level since raising the pond and giving a very nice ring around the pond with grass shallows, I'm hoping at least 50 survive and maybe even more. We will see.

There are sure a lot of minnows and baby BG utilizing the new shallows. So the new bass ought to have enough to eat.

If some survive, that ought to at least give me another size class.

Then I go out late afternoon to feed and have this floating up to the bank.

Been contemplating changing the spillway in the old refurbished pond into an overflow tube for a couple years now. And at the same time raise the water level about a foot. Raising the water level a foot or a little more will turn the island in the middle into a submerged hump. I've had some trouble with geese loving the island for making nests.

Got started today. Got the Tonka toys out and moved a little dirt. Picture is of the scraper sitting on top of where the overflow used to be. Had to dig down about 5' to get to solid clay and then hauled in fresh clay from nearby field (where I may make my RES pond next year) and packed it in with multiple passes with a loaded scraper.

Got it roughed in today. Tomorrow will install an overflow tube with the backhoe and do some elevations with the laser level and see how much more dirt I need to move to make the banks like I want them.

I chickened out on putting in an overflow pipe.

Considering there was rain in the forecast, the rest of the crew are out actually making a living working getting harvest in so I would have no help, and my concern I could not get the pipe installed and compacted correctly by myself in the weather window available, I just raised the dam height and stayed with an earthen spillway.

But I did get to run the Tonka Toys!

Some pics of the mid stage level of dirt work below. It is all roughed in and compacted. The finish work can come later. The soil and clay works better after it is weathered a little anyway.

I ended up raising the water in this pond 16". It entailed raising the dam height some, raising the water level in relation to the dam height some, and extending the dam quite a ways further around the BOW.

The full pool water level is now within 5" of running over the top of the hill, and in fact that is now my emergency spillway. If the water is running over 5" deep in the spillway on the SE corner of the pond, it will start spilling over the top of the hill on the north side of the pond which is a very wide grassed area. I have basically raised the water level to the max available for where the pond sits.

Raising the water this far was going to cause a lot of shallow water on the south side of the pond. I did not want the weed problems that would cause so with the scraper and tractor filled in that area out to within a couple foot of the existing water line to where it would be about 5" above the new full pool level. In other words, the additional water height will not add much to the overall size of the pond because of adding this fill. The north side was not a problem as that side needed a short dam where none existed before. The west side was going to add some area of only 12-16" deep water, so in that area I just dug it out with the dozer another 4' so the water there will now be 5' deep or so.

So the pond is only slightly bigger by maybe 3' wide on the N,S and E sides and by 25' on the west side. But the overall depth increase on the whole pond is 16".

And the island in the middle (formerly named Turtle Island - the turtles loved it) will now be an underwater hump.

Any red flags you see. at the base of those flags is the new full pool water level.

Descriptions are with each picture.

Edit: did get an 8" overflow tube installed. After building my new RES only pond next to this one, and after installing the overflow tube in it, I came back to thks old pond, put a tube in, and finished extending the dam around further where the earthen overflow had been. Finished!

That's a great looking job....hope to see it in person sometime.

Got the overflow pipe installed in my old pond. Last December, just before heading for our winter stomping grounds, I did get a chance right before we left to install the overflow pipe that I had said I chickened out on in the above post.

Just got back and someone had ask for some pictures of the refurbished old pond after raising the dam, so below are some new pictures I just took.

Normally we would have had enough rain over the winter to fill the pond. But since we only had a couple rains that produced a minimal amount of runoff, the water level is still below full pool a foot or so. But the island in the middle is just barely visible where in the pictures in the above post it raises a foot or so above water at the old pond level full pool. Will post some more pictures when it gets to full pool. Been a dry winter.

The post above has pictures of raising and extending the dam. These pictures are after I installed the 8" schedule 40 sewer pipe and filled in the area where the earthen overflow had been and extended the dam appropriately. The emergency overflow is now basically both sides of the pond, which is about 8" above full pool. In other words, when the pipe is running full, the water will start around the dam on both sides for the emergency outlet of excess water. I made the emergency so close to the overflow pipe level to get what I felt was the maximum water level available.

Picture where old overflow area was

Welcome back! It's been nice much of the winter. This cold snap waited for your return. We had 3.2 inches of rain here in five days last week.

Glad you got some rain! That should have put some water in your ponds.

I got back and they told me I should leave. They say every time I come home I bring cold nasty weather with me. I have been watching the weather at home all the time gone and it looked like we had an unusually cold December, but then January and February were really pretty nice.

A dry winter is really a good thing for SE Ks as far as farming goes. Not so for central or western Kansas, but here in SE Ks we are usually plagued with too much moisture when we don't need it. The dry weather let us get all the terraces patched and built up and a lot of field dozer and dirt work maintenance that often we don't get to do. So the dry winter has been a blessing for us. All the farming field work and fertilization caught up and ready to start planting corn in the next few days. Just hope the dry spell doesn't decide to extend on into summer.

Snrub,
Unfortunately there wasn't a lot of run off from the rains. We need a good fast rain for runoff, like three inches in six hours.
I was feeding CC and BG last week, but the water is very cold again now.

You do some mighty fine work there with your Tonka Toys Snrub!
I'm always fascinated by your descriptions of dirt moving. Most of my career was spent in the logging woods, so I appreciate a good catskinner in action.
My only other comment, coming from the Rockies, is, "Dang, Kansas is awfully flat." LOL

I'm just an amateur when it comes to operating construction equipment, but I have been operating farm equipment for over 50 years and have seen a lot more terraces and waterways than I ever wanted to, so am no stranger to water movement.

I do enjoy running the equipment........as long as it is a hobby and I don't have to do it for a living! Then it would quickly become a lot like work and my back would be, well, a pain in the back.

Some of the BG from this pond. I don't know if my growth has stalled out on my BG, if the larger original stocked fish are just harder to catch (their numbers would be much lower than their offspring), or what, but I seem to be able to catch considerable numbers of 7-8" fish and boatloads of 6".

I'm not feeding as heavy as I once was. About 3# per acre per day, once a day, and the fish would eat two or more times that amount easily. Water quality concerns keep me from upping the feed rate.

I'm not after trophys particularly so if I can get a bunch of the 6" fish up to the 8" level that is a really nice size to fillet. I'll probably harvest a bunch later this year.

Nothing spectacular. Just some good solid BG.

Edit: interesting that to date I have not caught a single one of my CNBG. Hope they survived. Original stockers were regular northern BG with some 6" CNBG added later. Lots more of the regular BG in the pond though, so maybe they are there and I just have not hooked one yet.

snrub, like you, I can get in the boat and catch all the 4 to 7" cnbg all over the pond using the gulp baits but when the feeders go off I see really big cnbg feeding and have caught one 11" cnbg. I think they are smarter and wiser and harder to catch. Talking Bg in general

From what I've read here you are too far north to have CNBG survive the winter.

He's only about 92 miles north of me and my CNBG have survived the past two winters in fine shape.

That could be but this winter likely would not have been the one to kill them off. My CNGB come from Dunn's in Oklahoma and they sell them as far north as about the center of Kansas, although they mostly push their HBG.

I stocked the CNBG as 2" fish late summer 2014 in a newly constructed sediment pond that is adjacent to my main pond. They grew to 5-6" when I started catching them and transferring over to my main pond. I had a DO crash in my sediment pond and transferred hundreds of the remaining fish and their offspring by netting them at the surface and putting them in the main pond. So the original stocking CNBG have already been through one winter that was considerably harder than last winter.

Most of my BG are northern. Being in the SE corner of Kansas, I'm definitely at or above the northern edge where CNBG will thrive. They are kind of an experiment, but they are sold into my area regularly by Dunns. Some have said that the Arkansas strain of CNBG likely have adapted to colder climates than some of the original southern CNBG (don't know if that applies to Oklahoma sourced CNBG or not). The ones I had when in the sediment pond grew really well the first year. They are all in the big pond now, diluted with thousands of regular northern BG so catching them will be kind of like finding a needle in a haystack. I did catch some of them last year though, so it is possible.

Here is a link to a post earlier in this thread with a picture of one of the CNBG caught out of this main pond along with a couple northern BG pictures. 2 northern BG and one CNBG from this pond in this post

I stocked about 130 fingerling CNBG in the fall of 2015, then in December of that year stocked about 30 adult native BG from 4-7 inches. I am fairly certain that they hybridized with the CNBG in the later spawns of 2016. There are some 3" ones now that look like crosses or BGxCNBG.

John,

That is very cool. Please post some pics of the BGXCNBG when they get a little bigger. I don't recall ever seeing a pic of one.

Bill somewhere on the forum (probable multiple times) ewest or someone described how there became two strains of BG. They all originated from a common ancestor. Then when a lot of Florida was under water part of it was separated from the main land. The bluegill evolved along different lines to reflect their environment. Thus became BG and the southern CNBG. Or some such story approximating that explanation. Maybe someone will give us the actual story again.

So if the two strains came from common ancestors, it would only be natural that they could combine genetics again through breeding when both varieties are present in a BOW. Or it would seem so to me, but I'm no geneticists (and couldn't even spell it without a spell checker )

With my adult BG stocking, I put in mostly males, probably 20 males and 10 females. I watched them spawn last year from my little dock. One of the big BG males would be on the nest, and multiple smaller CNBG females would run in and rub up against him, one at a time. Some of the offspring have strange coloring, like a dark stripe partway down the top of the head.

The hatchery raised CNBG also feed trained the larger native ones and now they are such pellet hogs they won't let the 2 to 4 pound CC get much. They only move out of the way for my six pound albino CC.

I have the same problem. Particularly since I am feeding less that what I used to, the CC I think rarely get to the feed quick enough to get a bite. I think right now I am depending on them being my top predator since my LMB population is lite.

If I fed more in a single spot, the CC would get more. When I stop in one spot to observe for a while and feed there more than usual, the CC show up pretty quick. But they have to be REALLY quick to beat the BG to the feed.

We have thinned out our CC a bunch. Have eaten a lot of them. Did catch one today I guess at 3# on a 1/32 oz jig with a golden shiner for bait. Sitting in the holding pen with another smaller one to get cleaned tomorrow.

With your 3.5 acre pond, and all the cover you have, I think you may have some CC recruitment.

I absolutely know I do.

I have pictures in one of these threads. And I think I have two year classes, because out of my sediment pond I had caught a couple (that obviously swam upstream during a high water event) that were about a foot long. They did not look stunted and were way too small to be original stockers so I am sure they were from two years ago.

Then late last fall I caught a half dozen CC about 5-6" long about the size of what we originally stocked four years ago.

So I definitely have recruitment. Which is ok with me as long as I do not get too many. But this also tells me my LMB crop is very lite or they would not be letting the baby CC get by them.

I put a hundred additional LMB from Dunns last fall but have not seen any of them since. Although normally stocking small LMB would just be eaten, as much forage as I have and with some of the CC recruitment surviving I was hoping at least 25 or more might make it. I may add another 100 here in another month.

If I were not trying to raise RES now in my Sediment pond, I would just grow some LMB there big enough to go in my main pond. But once I get LMB in the sediment pond, they will always be there, so trying to avoid that as long as I can. Eventually they will get in there via a high water event from the main pond. But until then I want to use the sediment pond to raise RES.

The pond measures 3.1 acres.

An update about the old refurbished pond. After several 1-2" rains it is at full pool and running out the overflow. Pictures with descriptions below.

Caught largest GSF to date out of the main pond. Almost 9".

Bluegill were hitting like a hammer hits a nail.

CC that I think may have been from reproduction in my pond. If it is one of the original stocked fish, it is a runt. But it looked like an actively growing healthy fish. Thus I believe it is an offspring from the original stock.

Was a nasty day yesterday. 20+ mph winds, 9" waves on the pond, water 4" over full pool and the fish were not at all interested in feed when I threw a little out so I did not go ahead and feed them.

It was a day where the hybrids shine though, as far as catching some fish on a rough day. I stood on the dock, let out about 6' of line (might as well been fishing with a cane pole) and dropped it down beside one of the posts holding the dock up. Raise the rod too high and the wind would take the line and 1/64 oz jig completely out of the water. Chartreuse Gulp Alive waxie for bait.

Caught a few very small BG, one that was maybe 7-8", but when nothing else wants to bite the hybrids with GSF in their genetic makeup is the fish of the day. I have transferred hundreds and hundreds of CNBGxGSF hybrids as well as a lesser number of RESxGSF hybrids from my sediment and forage ponds into this main pond. Pictures below are some of those hybrids starting to get some size to them. Caught a number of smaller ones too.

Still not catching any small ones that I am aware of but while away a friend caught this one and sent me the picture. Looks decent enough to me. Daughter said he caught several "really big" ones. I assume the picture is of the largest one. No weights or length but the guy in the picture is 6' tall.

I rarely fish for LMB but would think I should be catching some 6-12" ones while fishing for BG but never do.

snrub, that's a nice one looks like male to me (if caught from last Dec through April). Nice and muscular. looks like u might need to do a little lmb fishing yourself.

That fish was caught last Sunday and daughter told me he caught three all about that same size.

Makes me wonder if they were on beds or protecting fry but it seems too late in the season for that. I would have thought the LMB spawn would already be completed in my area.

Yes, I may have to try my hand at it in a couple weeks.

Here are a couple fish pictures from the main pond. A CC and a GSF I am trying to grow to trophy size. The GSF went back in the pond to grow, the CC went in the holding pen to join us for a meal.

Been thinning BG over the last few months. Filleted probably a couple hundred with a few of them being hybrids.

Funny thing about the hybrids. Today around 5 o'clock the BG were not biting hardly at all. At least on what I was offering them. But I caught a half dozen hybrids and three GSF, one of them is the picture below. Any GSF under 6" get their tail cut off and back in the pond for bass snacks. The bigger ones go back to grow larger.

Normally out of thirty fish caught 27 would be BG, a couple hybrids and maybe one GSF. But tonight the BG were persnickety so the GSF and hybrids took up the slack. That is one thing I like about them because if nothing is biting I quickly loose interest. I am a lousy angler. But the hybrids will usually oblige and jump on my hook when the BG are on vacation. Caught both RES/GSF and BG/GSF hybrids up to about 9".

But along about the time the sun had just set, a little before 7, the BG came alive. Then it was fish on. Caught a dozen or so before it got too dark. I find it funny how that works. Someone other than me fishing and if they quit a half hour before I did might have thought I had a pond full of hybrids and GSF. But in reality they are more like one in a few hundred BG.

The CC I caught on a 2" GSF I had trapped out of my forage pond and decided to give live bait a try.

No bragging rights fishing, but I am happy with the results. I would like a few more size classes of LMB out there keeping my BG under better control though.

Ain't that a beautiful GSF specimen?

snrub, after seeing the large hammer beside your nice catfish, I am thinking maybe you should change your call sign to "THOR" I am guessing u knocked his lights out with that hammer in order to get him to pose for the picture

I noticed that hammer after I posted the picture.

That is for poacher control.

Seriously I do quite a bit of trapping with minnow traps. I keep the hammer in there to drive steel concrete form stakes into the ground to hold the rope that is attached to the minnow trap.

Found out early on if you just lay the rope on the ground, a curious raccoon or snapping turtle can land the minnow trap in deep water beyond reach. So I always stake them now.

It took me about a minute to get the picture. As long as my hand was on it would lay still. The second I removed my hand he was trying to crawl back to water. So I got about three shots of it curled up before I got one with it stretched out.

A few fish from a couple days ago when it was warm outside. I mostly fish off the banks but these came from around some of our structure fishing from the boat.

And I finally caught a LMB! Was about 15" so I think it likely was from the 100 additional fingerlings I stocked last fall. Or it could have been from recruitment. At any rate was glad to see it. Was going to take a picture but it gave one good flip as I pulled it up to grab hold of it and it just flipped the small barb-less jig out of its mouth and was back in the water. Just as well as I definitely was going to release it as LMB are hard to come by in my pond.

Not everyone has one of these but it works pretty well installing near shore structure. Took a couple dead oak stumps out from trees I cut down around the house so I put the two stumps and two cedar trees out as far as the telehandler would reach near our dock.

I put no structure originally around the dock thinking I would keep it free of debris for swimming. Fishing from the dock has just been "ok" and the best fishing is from mid dock casting along the shore line. So might as well be fishing from the bank.

So I put one stump and one cedar tree on the north side of the dock with the cedar being a little closer to shore (fish highway) and the other two on the south side. I put them within light jig casting distance so it can be fished from the dock.

Hopefully this will improve the fishing from the dock if the structure holds some fish.

Wow, that is just the ticket for what you are using it for!!

It would be nice to have a telehandler for lots of projects.

I bet it would be quite useful with a rake attachment for scooping out floating FA.

Nice work. Did you add structure anywhere else while you were at it ?

I did not Eric. I needed to do something with these stumps I took out and the two cedars were from spring and were sitting in shallow water waiting to be placed. So I just did these two spots with what I needed to move anyway.

I put plenty of structure around the dam side of the pond before it filled. But I ran out of time before we left for the winter on the dock side so there is very little stricture there. Some gravel beds for spawning but not much else.

I will see if this improves fishing from the dock. If it does I might put out a couple more spots on that side of the pond next year.

My experience is that the new structure will help fishing at the new locations. How deep is the new structure ?

The structure should be in about 5-6 ft of water and come within a foot or two of the surface, depending on how the stump landed. I tried to drop them so they either landed on the cut end of the trunk or on the trunk and one side of the root ball. One I am sure I got that way because I could actually see one root sticking up above the surface a couple inches (but today it is gone so must have settled in a little). The other stump I could not tell as it slipped off the forks pretty quickly. It may have ended up sitting on the root ball, which would not be as good in my opinion. On that one though I did not weight the cedar tree and it is sticking out above the water on one end.

So I think I have structure from the bottom to almost all the way to the surface.

I fished it today and caught some, but really had better luck along the bank as usual. May take time for the fish to call it home.

That should work well as you have vertical cover bottom to top.

Water temperature at 56 degrees but it was "fish on" yesterday afternoon. For about 30 minutes it was one BG right after another with a few almost 9" with most being in the 6-8" range. Mostly BG but a few hybrids with one of each pictured below.

After the first half hour the bite was "ok" and caught quite a few more at various places along the bank. But that first half hour I would have thought if was in 70 degree water.

Fed the fish right before sundown and they were actively feeding, but I could tell they were not as quick or aggressive as when the water was warmer. I was surprised at them going after the 1/64 jig with just a bit of plastic on it for bait as aggressively as they did.

The biggest, nicest males I returned to the water and most of the rest went to the holding cage to get filleted another day. I did also put one large hybrid back just to see how big it could get. If I get a particularly good looking large female I will also return them, but none yesterday made the grade.

Three more HBG from today. These should be some of the natural hybrids that were produced in my sediment pond that was stocked with CNBG and RES. A few GSF got in there and I got lots of hybrids produced that I transferred to my main pond mostly as fingerlings. Most were GNBGxGSF but also some RESxGSF. These appear to be ordinary HBG from the CNBGxGSF cross.

The fourth picture I also posted on another thread on RESxGSF crosses, but I posted it again here so it can be compared to the other three hybrids.

Largest HBG went .63 pounds. All three went to the holding pen to be invited to dinner. Would have liked to put them back to grow out more, but I have so many BG if I am going to make any dent in the population have to get aggressive at taking fish out. So these three will go under the knife tomorrow. I've been returning to the pond only pure BG males over 8" that look like they have good genetics. I did return one really nice female. Edit: I also return the RESxGSF hybrids to the pond - there are a lot less of these than the regular HBG

Good day fishing. BG were biting great in 54 degree water. Must have caught something over 30. Still taking feed good too.

Well in my quest to reduce fish biomass have filleted 321 BG and 10 CC to date for this season. We did 143 BG Sunday afternoon.

I think I could do that many more 6-7" BG and still have plenty.

I need to recruit some more LMB to help me in my quest.

Hey John,

Ever considered letting your CC grow larger to help with the BG?

I find it interesting that you have CC recruitment but not LMB recruitment. I would think the slow moving CC spawn would be easier targets than the LMB spawn for the BG.

I have some CC around the 3+ so they should be getting up there big enough to help. I have removed 20 or so 6-9" long CC as I catch them.

I take it LMB must like the CC better than BG. But you do raise an interesting point.

Interesting I have not seen my CC for about a week at feeding time because of the colder water, yet I will still catch the occasional small one while fishing for BG. The BG are biting like gangbusters. I fished the main pond for only ten minutes tonight right before it got dark and caught a half dozen. Water temp was 54 a couple days ago and based on ambient temps would not think it has changed much. BG still feeding really well.

It is always exciting for me when I catch one of my RES in the main pond. I have so many BG, getting a RES to take the bait before a BG or HBG or GSF gets to it is difficult.

So it is always a good day fishing when I catch a nice RES. Caught this one right after sundown on a 1/64 oz jig head with about an inch of Gulp Alive fake worm.

This guy was 8" but was far from fat. Looked to be in good health and good shape, but looked like forage was limiting because it sure was not overly finished. I think I have so many BG, the RES just faces lots of competition for food. I can offset some of that for the BG with fish food, but likely the RES is not getting any of that.

Caught a few BG for the fillet pen and one pretty nice HBG that also will be invited to dinner. And took a picture of a nice after sunset sky over the pond.

Fish bite is really slowing down after several days of cool weather. Cleaned another 60 BG and one CC that I had accumulated in the holding pen over the last several days ( told wife there was about 20- I underestimated a little) and had just a few minutes of light left so tried fishing. Bite was really slow but did get one nice BG.

At least I did not get skunked. This one was saved from the fillet knife and went back into the pond to make babies and be caught another day.

Some of the results from Sunday's filleting session.

Yumm!

Looks awesome! I could dig into that!

That looks very good! Have you ever tried cutting the CC into steaks? That's the way we usually do it. Cut the whole skinned CC from the top down into horseshoe shaped pieces about 3/4 to one inch thick, roll in lightly salted yellow cornmeal and deep fry at 350 for about 8 minutes. The bones stay in, but it's delicious that way, and wastes very little of the fish.

It was awesome! The pickled beets are home grown from my MIL. We send her all the filleted fish she and FIL can eat. We get beets.

Tartar sauce is Miracle Whip, sweet pickle relish and just a touch of yellow mustard.

My wife is a strictly boneless gal and beings she is the cook I do not argue with her. I like the fish coating as much as the fish so I ask her to cut it into fingers or nuggets so there is more coating.

Our current favorite mix is half commercial cajun fish coating mix (corn meal based) and half Panko bread crumbs. The Panko bread crumbs give the coating a nice crunchiness for good mouth feel. The half rate cajun spice gives it just a nice mild kick.

We used to deep fry but since Carolynn got the air fryer that is how we eat most of the fish. Taste like fried but uses very little oil and a lot less spatter and mess.

This particular 3# CC had darker meat with more yellowish tint than what we are used to seeing when we filleted it. I thought at the time the taste might be off. But it tasted great. Cooked out nice white and flaky.

I've been thinking about getting my bride one of those but they all seem pretty small. What brand and size do you have? Sounds like your bride likes it.

Small ain't bad if there are only two people to cook for. Carolynn says the air fry cooker cooks batches pretty fast.

Phillips HD9240 and the basket measures 8.5"x8.5". She likes it.
Air fryer I see they make some other smaller models also.

Christmas is getting pretty close you know.

After thinking about my reply there are a couple of other things I thought of about the air fry cooker.

We like fried fish. No two ways about it. In fact that picture above my wife had ask me if it was ok to bake the fish. I said that would be fine. But she, the wonderful partner she is, knows I like it better fried abandoned the oven for the air fryer. So the picture of the fish is how it came out of the air fryer. Don't get me wrong, on the occasions she does bake the fish, it turns out really good. But I still like fried better.

The problem she always had with deep frying or pan frying is the clean up afterwords or the storing and filtering of oil for reuse on the deep fry. It always made a mess, and cooking just for two people it seemed like a lot of cleanup work for such a small amount to cook. Oil spatter always ended up on stuff around the stove with pan frying and with a deep fryer the oil to either take care of to reuse or waste a lot of oil for a small amount of fish fried. I can't tell the difference in taste and in fact there is no danger of ending up with oil saturated fish coating like can happen if deep frying and the oil temperature is not "right".

The air fry cooker gets away from most all of these problems. It only uses a couple tablespoons of oil to begin with, so supposedly a little healthier and the clean up is minimal compared to spatter all over the stove top and area.

I think she has had the air fryer something over a year now and likes is pretty well compared to other oil frying methods. If we have lots of fish to fry like for a "get together" we will get out the propane fired deep fryer. But for just the two of us the air fryer is the "go to" tool.

I have an old recipe that I learned from my great aunt (May she rest in peace). Like Snrub I like cornmeal with a little kick to it, but the secret I found out is to add a little yellow mustard to the fish before you put the cornmeal on it. After it has fried you can't taste the mustard but it come out golden color and the cornmeal will stick to the fish better.

My bride cuts our CC fillets into fingers and sprinkles Old Bay seasoning on them before breading and frying. Really adds a nice little zip and smooths any "rough spots" in the taste.

I agree with you assessment John. I've been looking into the air fryers and they sound like a nice addition to the kitchen for small families like "empty nesters" and couples just starting out. For our family with 2 teenage boys, I think they just don't have the capacity. We have ovens in both kitchens with convection capabilities which might be more appropriate for larger families and provide similar results.

Interesting. I bet this is something we will try. Thanks!

Some random fish cleaning pictures at our fish cleaning station. This is the way we fillet BG. This particular batch of 67 BG I did myself as the wife was away.

I'm sure there are other ways of doing it that retain more meat. But we have so many BG my other alternative to thinning them would be to throw them on the bank for the raccoons. So pulling out the best and leaving the rest for the raccoons seems a better alternative.

I'm no expert at this but am getting better. Before building our ponds I probably had cleaned no more than a couple dozen fish in my life previously.

Descriptions with pictures. Is the rat bait bucket clean? No but I have been feeding fish food to the fish out of it for two years so hopefully the poison is gone. The zip lock bag in it is clean though.

The glove is a necessary tool for me. I don't have Parkinsons but do have a genetic propensity to shake at times. Without the glove I would be bleeding more than the fish.

Carolynn rinses the meat again when it gets in the house, pulls out any missed pin bones, puts it back in the bag with fresh water and some milk, lets it soak overnight in the refrigerator, then spreads the fillets out on cookie sheets lined with butcher paper and freezes them. Then she takes the frozen fillets and either vacuum seals them or puts them in a zip lock bag and back in the freezer. This makes individual fillets that she can easily take out as few or as many as we need for any size meal. A little extra work but makes using the fillets for meal preparation very easy. Dredges and coats the frozen fillets and runs them through the air fryer. Delicious.

Edit: the yellow in the middle of the bag is one of the CC fillets from the small (maybe 3/4#) CC.

First day out on the pond after a three month hiatus in a warmer climate.

Drove out by the pond with the UTV and did not make it 50 feet till I saw fish swimming toward me wanting fed. 40 degrees this morning and I did not expect that. Went back to the shed, got some feed, and the acceptance was very brisk. Did a light feeding then some more later in the day when the sun came out and warmed some. The fish are definitely hungry. Will try to remember to get a water temp tomorrow.

Water is clear and FA is going gang busters in the shallow water. Looks like a little Cutrine in the shallows and some pond dye tomorrow. If I can remember where I put the pond dye I bought last year and never used.

Was a dry winter here but recent rains have all the ponds within a couple inches of full pool.

Plenty to do around the pond. Life is good!

Looks like a very nice setup , I'm starting to see some feeding activity on warmer days but hit a cold snap again so not trying to feed lately. I'm ready for Spring!

Water temperature hovering right around 50 and the fish are feeding well in the main pond. Seems the BG are the most active as my other ponds that lack BG not much going on yet. Seeing some what I assume to be GS feeding pretty well in my forage pond but nothing in my RES/LMB pond. Seeing a few small schools of FHM there but none rising to feed at surface.

What really surprised me in the main pond is I have seen a few CC acting like they wanted to eat. Saw a 6-8" one feeding at the surface and maybe a 3# cruising below the BG but not coming up to the surface yet. BG are tearing the feed up though.

I did not expect to see CC activity till the water got up to 60 or so.

BG and hybrid fishing the last few days has been good, despite water temps of only 54 degrees. Fish are very active and feeding well except for one day that was really cold and windy and with the bad weather moving in tonight I suspect it will get tough again.

My BG growth has kind of stalled out around 8-9". I just have too many mouths to feed. Trying to rectify that by growing some additional LMB in my sediment pond to supplemental stock this main pond later this year. In the mean time I will remove nearly all the females I catch in the 6-8" range, any male that is less than perfect in that range, and any hybrid unless it is just an outstanding large one.

Pictures of some recent catch. I have lots of this size but few larger. Or perhaps I am just not good enough angler to catch them.

My CNBG in the first pond are about the same as yours, about 8" max after 2.5 years in the pond, from starting at about 1.5 to 2". Even after the otter invasion back in the winter, I still have too many BG mouths to feed. I did catch and release a nice looking 12" LMB in that pond a couple of days ago that may help with control.

I watched Bobs Facebook video How to grow giant bluegill with Bruce Condello and learned that I may not be using large enough bait to catch my largest fish.

When it gets a little nicer weather I want to get the boat out around some of my sunken structure and specifically fish for my biggest BG and RES.

It may be that I have some bigger fish, but with the smaller size so abundant and the small bait I usually use maybe just not getting in the right spot and using the right bait to entice the larger specimens.

Even if I do have some larger fish, it still does not change the fact that I have too many BG overall and need to get my predator base more in line with my goals.

John,
I can see most of my BG when they come up to feed. I have had that problem of excessive visibility for almost the life of the pond. I don't have any that I know of over about 9", and only a very very few of those. Most of the originals are 7-8 inches. I think they ate more pellets last year than my now defunct CC did. I fed a mix of CC pellets, Optimal, and Aquamax MVP. I like the MVP, just can't get it. If I get up your way this spring / summer, I will try to purchase a couple of bags of MVP where you buy it.

If I ever get any. Had it ordered over a month now. They keep telling me "next Thursday". At least they did get some 500 in. I have been feeding it mixed about half and half with Optimal BG. Cut the feed way down the last few days as it has got colder. The fish are more sluggish but are still coming for feed. Just not eating as much of it. Some days I will not feed if not getting any activity to speak of but that has only happened a couple days.

I think I have talked the feed store into stocking it so maybe they will keep a few bags on hand once they start getting it.

I guess Purena doesn't figure fish feeding starts till June.

John,
Around here, I guess Purina figures people don't feed fish at all.

I have not fed the last two days. Water temp has dropped dramatically. Air temp was 22 degrees F. here early this morning. When water temps drop, and fish eat, the food doesn't digest anyway.

Been dang busy around the farm this spring but have had a chance to do a little fishing the last few days.

Good news on this main 3 acre pond is that I caught a couple of LMB on the 12"+- range. Picture of one below. Was fishing for small to medium size BG to transfer to my old refurbished pond and caught them a few feet out from the bank where the BG were feeding. Also a friend caught a couple of smaller LMB a few weeks ago. This is good news because I have had a terrible time getting successful LMB spawns. I have had a few large LMB that were fairly hard to catch but almost no smaller bass. Catching these gives me hope that the tide is turning and I am getting some LMB replacement to help take care of my oversupply of BG.

Speaking of BG the second picture is of a male BG I caught just a few minutes ago. It is close to 9". This is the kind of fish I would like to catch regularly. The problem has been I can catch 6-8" BG in large numbers and also plenty smaller, but these larger specimens have been too few. I've just had way too many BG overall. I hope to get my LMB numbers up to help take care of that. I like pan fish fishing so having an abundance of 12-15" LMB would not bother me at all.

Or considering the BG it could be that I am just a poor angler. I only fish my own ponds and only been actively fishing for the last four years. Maybe there are lots of large BG out there and I just don't know how to catch them. Maybe some of you guys can come up to my Pond Boss Forum informal SE Kansas get together and show me how it is done.

snrub, that lmb looks pretty fat and healthy! I am betting you get some nice fast growth with those two lmb.

Thanks.

Here is a fish I caught tonight I'm posting specifically for the GSF lovers fan club. All two or three members. I put this one back to grow bigger.

I'm going after a trophy GSF.

Edit: Now that I look at it in a picture, it looks like it might have a little BG genes in it. When I had it in my hand, it sure looked and felt like a pure GSF. Not so sure now. The vertical bands look a little too distinct for this large fish and the mouth looks a little small.........dunno.

John, I've caught one real trophy GSF. I quickly returned it to the water without measuring or taking a pic. Actually didn't have my cell phone with me. It had to go 11 inches.


The only GSF genes were the green on the side of the head. I've often wondered about spawning. Over succeeding generations of a GSF back spawning with bluegills, does it keep only spawning annually or do the BG genes start taking over and it starts spawning multiple times?

Assuming it was about 90% bluegill, judging by it's size and body, it had lost almost of its GSF characteristics. The fight was like a 14 to 15 inch bass.

I have a significant number of naturally produced hybrids in this main pond. Some RESxGSF but mostly CNBGxGSF.

They were actually produced in my sediment pond I assume because of regular turbid water inflows (sometimes difficult for species to identify each other) and a very limited number of GSF to spawn with (mostly RES and CNBG). This situation seemed to set up the perfect conditions to get lots of hybrids. When I had a runoff accident and was having a massive fish kill in that 1/10th acre pond the fish were gasping at the surface and the wind blew them to one end so I just dip netted thousands of fish from an inch long up to 6" or so and transferred them to my main pond. I mostly did not want to loose the CNBG and RES I was raising in that pond but along with them were all the hybrids too and no time to separate.

I have learned to appreciate the hybrids and for a pan fish fishery I really like them.

An anecdote from a few nights ago. I was fishing off the dock for BG to transfer down to my old pond that I think the cormorants mostly wiped out in that pond. So I did not really care what size and was just using my crappie rod like a cane pole flipping the small jig in shallow water near the bank and pulling one fish right after the other out to put in a bucket of water to take to my old pond. By my early results you would have thought I only had GSF and hybrids in my pond. Those fish are so much more aggressive they will very often be the first fish to the hook. But after catching a half dozen or so greenies and hybrids, out of the next 30 fish all but two or three were BG.

I have seen this happen many times. Just by a quick fishing survey a person might think he has a pond full of GSF. But in reality in my pond they comprise only a very small percentage and after catching the really aggressive ones then the BG get their chance.

Hey John, love your pics you post on this thread. None from the recent catch?? lol

Glad your getting time to fish. I too wonder about the GSF/BG thing. Threads like this one are some of my favorites to follow.

Thanks for posting like you do.

Thanks!

I catch lots of BG. We fillet quite a lot and have been trying to move 15 to 20 a day to the old pond.

I don't think anyone wants to see pics of all my small BG though.

A catch is a catch brother. lol. I like seeing the variations of hybrids. The BG/GSF. Maybe there should be a grant to study those variations.

These fry were gathered up in the overflow tube. They had swam up the 8" tube from my main pond. There was a trickle of water overflowing from the sediment pond and some of them were trying to jump up the 6" high 90 degree elbow into the sediment pond with no luck.

I think they are BG but I suppose they could be LMB fry. Too small for me to identify. They are maybe 3/8" long. Dipped some up with an aquarium net and put them in a glass jar for a picture. Either my phone or the photographer did not do a very good job, but maybe one of them is good enough for someone to ID these fry.

After the glass jar I put them in a small concrete pond out our back door that had no fish in it. That was a few days ago and the fish seem to be doing fine and no floaters that I saw. Maybe I can grow them big enough to get a positive ID.

I assumed these fish came from my main pond and swam up the overflow tube for a safe place to hide. It just dawned on me they could have came from the sediment pond while it was overflowing and they just stayed and grouped up in the overflow.

Edit: Could be GSF also. GSF in both ponds as well as RES

The body depth makes me doubt they are LMB. It will be interesting to see if you can grow some out to a recognizable size. What are you going to feed them?

The little plastic lined concrete pond is my wifes. It is half full and maybe has 30 gallon of water in it. She had a knee replaced recently so the pond has went without care this spring. Our airco water drips into it and that is the only water it has had this spring. It is loaded with algae and snails and I would assume plenty of the tiny critters small fish that size eat. There are Arrowhead plants growing in it from last year also.

So for at least the current time I will feed them nothing as they have plenty of "green water". As they start to grow I have some Optimal "starter" pellets I can throw a few in. If they actually make it to an inch or so and none have died I probably have too many fish for the BOW size (unless I aereate or turn the water pump on) but will cross that bridge if I get that far.

If they are BG it is not like I have a shortage of them so will not care so much of their demise. But I would like to raise them up enough to tell for sure what they are. Just for kicks.

Carolynn tied into a nice 4+# CC last night. Her idea of fishing is throwing a line out while she sits and knits. So CC fishing is right down her alley.

I actually catch as many or more CC than she does fishing for BG with a tiny bait like a Gulp Alive Waxie. I like action. If I am not catching anything I quickly get bored and move on to something else. She is the opposite. Sitting and knitting is her thing so if she doesn't catch anything she it still satisfied.

But last night (late afternoon actually) was her night. With a hunk of GSF on a hook resting on the bottom she cam up with the nice fish pictured below.

She is going to try smoking the fillets. She smokes quite a bit of pork, chicken and some cheese. Smoked some BG once and it turned out good (according to those who like smoked fish - I'm not a big fan of even smoked salmon). We will see. I think she is going to try the smoked CC out on her knitting girl friends at a knitting party.

CNBG DO survive in Kansas. Well in SE Kansas anyway and for a few years at least if winters are not too severe. I hope we are able to keep them long term.

The first two pictures below are of an obvious CNBG male. This is most likely a fish that was originally stocked in my sediment pond in fall of 2014. It was likely caught by hook and line and transferred to this main 3 acre pond the next year. I suppose it could have been a later spawn from reproduction of CNBG but based on its maturity I am going to assume it was one of the original stockers from Dunn's Fish Farm out of Oklahoma.

The third picture is of a very typical northern BG male caught in the same area as the CNBG for comparison.

The last picture I am not sure about but I think it might also be a CNBG of the female persuasion. I am not nearly as sure about it being CNBG rather than northern BG, but the jaw color sure leads me to believe it and it looks "different" than most of my native northern BG. Wide vertical bands also. At some point I am sure I will be catching crosses between CNBG and BG as they interbreed.

Since the main pond was originally stocked with northern BG they are by far the dominant species of BG in this pond. The CNBG likely only comprise a few percent of the total BG so it is a treat when I catch one.

The big male CNBG was caught right off the edge of my dock, right near where two schools of small BG fry hung out earlier in the season. I hope those schools of fry were fathered by this very nice CNBG. Would like to see some more like him in my pond.

Today was not only a treat catching the CNBG pictured above but also caught 3 RES from the main pond right in the same area. I caught all three right at the edge of the dock near where the posts holding the dock up. All three fish were caught within a 10 minute period and no further than 15 feet apart. I also have some cedar trees under the dock for cover.

The first two fish I am sure are pure RES. When I caught it I also thought the third was RES but now looking at in the pictures it could possibly be a RES/CNBG cross. All three fish did not have particularly prominent red/orange opercular tabs. They were quite small actually. Not sure if this is environment, females or what.

But the third fish (last two pictures) the orange border was especially thin and does not show up in the pictures at all but holding the fish I could tell there was an orange border. It definitely has RES parentage. But is it RES or a hybrid? What do you think?

Edit: originally had wrong last picture. Changed it.

Nice looking CNBG John, congratulations. Did you have to special order those from Dunn's, or are they something that are usually on the route truck?

I�ve stocked red ears multiple times in my ponds but don�t think I�ve caught but one in about 30 years. I consider them a myth.

No Dave, they are not a myth. Just mean. They do it to spite you. They are laughing at you as we speak Dave.

See info on RES. Unknown facts about Redear Sunfish


RES info and links

I ordered them ahead but they brought them on their route truck. It is kind of funny because they hardly mention they have BG at all. They really push the HBG. But if you look at their price list and order page they list the CNBG.

I put 100 of them along with 200 RES in my 1/10th acre sediment pond when it first filled. I think I could have put 10 CNBG and 200 RES and still ended up with more CNBG than RES. They reproduced and grew like crazy. I started catching the adults after about 6 months at 5 to 6 inches and started transfering to my main pond. This is likely one of those early transfers. Later I transferred hundreds and hundreds of fingerling offspring also.

I may restock a bunch of them next year. I have very few bass left after drought so they just might make it. Or, I guess I have very few left and a lot of big bluegills. And, about 6 or 7 hybrid stripers. I'll also probably put in more stripers.

I worry about the bluegills getting out of hand without bass as a predator. And, droughts hit me pretty hard a couple of years ago. It could easily happen again.

Now, I have a great BG pond without a top predator. That is a recipe for disaster .

I'm shocked at all the RES in my BOW! But only when electrofishing...

Kind of the same story in my 1/20th acre forage pond. I don't electrofish it but throw cast net. RES are relatively hard to catch by hook and line yet by cast net I have removed several hundred fingerlings and several larger sizes.

Shorty is about the only one on here regularly catching them, or at least the only one that posts catches.

I wish I could learn to throw a cast net. I have spent hours and hours trying from time to time, but it usually lands in a heap. About one out of 10 throws is good.

I'm thinking seriously about getting me a hand crank generator and finding out just whats swimming around my pond. Its too deep to be very productive with a cast net. The spawning area is about the only place it may work, but thats where all the structure/cover is. Good way to tear up a net.

Need someone to hold your beer while you try that generator thing out? I've heard they work better while standing in the water. We need video's.

Back when I was young hand crank generators were still fairly readily available by tearing one out of an old hand crank phone. (showing my age and IQ) They would make your hair stand up. I got kicked off the school bus once because a little kid cried when a bunch of us were holding hands and cranking her up. Education in school ain't what it used to be. Those generators supposedly would bring fish to the surface, but I would not know.

Cast nets work best where you can find fish concentrated. Otherwise not so well.

Thanks for the info John. I see that their route truck is going to be in our neighborhood again on July 12th. I'll give them a call and see if they will have any CNBG on the truck.

Hey shrub,
I've actually come across several on Amazon. Just don't know what voltage I need to be considering to be effective. The secret is to mount two lengths of chain (long enough to get close to the bottom) on each end of a 2x4 with a lead wire attached to each end. The 2x4 will act as a insulator and when you crank the handle the voltage is passed thru the water between the chains. Not sure how far apart they need to be...yet. May still want a rubber mat to stand on tho!!

I think it is a combination of both the voltage and current that makes it both effective and dangerous.

Spark plugs I think are 30 or 40 thousand volts but very low current. Welders (which will give you a good shock if hands are sweaty) vary but as I recall are around 50 volts but up to several hundred amps. Electric fencers are up there in the high voltage low current category.

Those old hand crank telephone generators must have varied in both depending on how fast you cranked. A slow crank and it would barely give you a buzz. As you increased the speed your muscles would contract and get to where you could not let go till the person on the crank stopped. I suspect that would be considered dangerous and unadvised in today's age but we just considered it fun. We were rednecks and didn't even know the word. Never killed anybody we know of.

I'd love to get some first hand reports on the old telephone crank and how well they work for fish surveys. I have heard stories about "back in the day" when they tried it and it would only bring up catfish.

John I just have a baby cast net and they are not too hard. Get up into the bigger sizes and I bet they are tricky.

One thing I have found to be important is that you coil up the retrieve rope and hold it in your hand properly. If I get tired or lazy and just kind of bunch that rope helter skelter most times the rope will catch the edge of the weights as they fan out and destroy the pattern.

I'm not at all good at throwing the one I have but can do a respectable job close to the shore which fortunately is where the RES fingerlings hang out near sunset. I can throw a longer throw pretty good "some days". It seems like if I get it right I can throw for a number of times and get it right. But if I start throwing badly I just as well quit for a while because the harder I try the worse I get. It takes a fluid, almost lazy, motion to get the weights to fan out into a nice circle. If I start "trying" too hard I throw tacos.

Maybe I can embarrass myself at snrub's PBF informal get together in September and give a demonstration.

Mine is only a 3.5 foot radius. Been trying to throw into my forage pond to get BG that got into it from the flooding last year between the forage pond and my first pond. Maybe some kind of trap would work better. Most of the BG are 2-3" and I don't want them spawning there. I am trying to keep it all FHM.

You just need an instructor that you will watch till you get it right! Hang in there, you will get it in no time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6swnJXwEws

There are others on there, but this shows you it is technique, not force to get a good cast.

Oh! There's an instructor in that video that will be easy to watch, however, I never saw a throw net! I may have to watch it several more times...

I saw that video quite a while back and had to watch it several times also to get it right.

That is a lot larger net and has a few differences than the small ones like mine.

Coiling the rope up is important although being a small net (with a shorter throw line) I make the coils only about a foot in diameter instead of arms length like she does.

Then when holding the net there is no need to fold it over like she does. Just grab it just beneath the horn and let the net drape down naturally. Don't fold a foot of it over like she does.

Just let it hang down naturally, holding the net just below the horn along with the rope coils, grab the lead line nearest you an arms length down, pull it up and then throw like she does. Don't need all the extra steps of the larger net she has.

It is a really good video in showing the different parts and explaining some of the basics but using a larger net it does extra steps not needed for a small net. She makes it way more complicated than it needs to be for a small net.

Here is one that is simpler and basically the way I throw but even this video has a larger net than mine. With the smallest net it is not necessary to fold over part of the net in the hand. With a small net just hold the net right below the horn without folding the net over. Otherwise this video shows the way I throw.

Cast net throwing

Yeah Quarter, that's why I was questioning the voltage requirements to bring up scaled fish. Does anyone who has ever had a shock study done know what voltage those guys use?

Shrub,
I've been throwing a cast net since I was probably 12 to catch bait for our trotlines and recreational shrimping. I'm kinda rusty, but can get pretty consistent throws and still can't catch anything with it in my pond. It's worst than trying to catch BH in my cloverleaf traps. I'm thinking it's because the pond is too deep. They get out from under it before it reaches bottom.

You might have better luck in colder water. I was VERY successful last fall and early this spring when the water temps were in the 50's. Now that it is closer to high 80's I get a lot fewer fish.

I think it is like you say, they scoot out from under the net before it hits bottom. Maybe you should try it again this fall/winter.

I'm putting this picture up just to irritate Dave Davidson. It is no trophy or anything.

He claims RES are just a myth because he has never caught one from his pond.

I have been transferring RES fingerlings from my forage pond to this main 3 acre pond for over two years now, trying to get their numbers up enough so I can catch one once in a while. Well today was the day. By its size I am pretty sure it was a transfer that has grown up. I suppose it could have been a recruitment but I suspect it originally came from my forage pond as a three incher. It went back in the water to grow some more.

The second picture is just to make Dave feel better. Him and the rest of the GSF fan club members. This one went back in to grow more too.

Edit: almost forgot, caught two RES, third picture.

Today was CC day. Or at least a good time to catch CC. From the main pond I caught one about 3# and one that weighed 5.75# and my wife caught one at 4.25#. A 5+# CC using a 10' light action crappie rod with a tiny spincast real using a 1/64 oz jig head tipped with a chartreuse Gulp Alive waxie bait was quite a fight. I was afraid I was going to straighten the hook out and did bend it some.

Funny I fish for BG and my wife fishes for CC and I catch more CC than she does on a bait and hook not much bigger than a fly.

Of course it helps that we were fishing off the dock where we clean fish and put back some of the fish carcasses, plus for the last couple weeks I have been trapping 2-3" GSF in another pond, cutting off their tails, and feeding them to a couple pet LMB and the CC right in this area of the dock. So I guess you could say we have been kind of chumming them. Boy do those LMB and CC love those small GSF with the tails chopped off. Like tossing candy in front of a kid. I was surprised how fast the LMB got trained.

John, did you eat any of the CC? If so, got a recipe to share?

I'm thinking about raising CC in my little growout pond strictly for kids to catch & show them how to cook. BG from main pond are fine, but CC get bigger, fight harder, easier to filet by the pound.

Carolynn is going to try smoking this batch of CC and see how they turn out smoked. She smokes quite a bit of stuff including cheese.

We have eaten lots of our pond raised CC. Funny thing is, I never cared for CC that much before raising our own. Our CC taste great.

Our favorite way of preparing them is cut them into nugget or finger size strips, coat them in dry corn starch, egg wash, then a mixture of 3/4 Panco bread crumbs and 1/4 cajun corn meal based fish coating we buy at the store. Second egg wash bath then dredge in the coating mix a second time. Then let the prepared double coated nuggets dry on a wire rack. Then fry them in an air fryer if you have one or pan fry or even baked is good too. She has done it all those ways but we like the air fryer best because it tastes like fried but with very little oil used and much less spatter mess on the counter.

Egg wash details are egg and a little bit of water and milk to thin it slightly with tiny amount of oil.

The ratio of the cajun seasoned corn meal based mix (that we buy at the store - various brands work) and the Panco bread crumbs kind of to taste depending on how spicy you like it. We like it very mild with just a hint of kick so use more bread crumbs and less cajun mix. More of the cajun mix will give more spicy and more corn meal base and more Panco will make the coating more crispy. If you don't want any heat at all substitute any commercial corn meal based fish coating mix like lemon or whatever flavor you like. We really, really like the Panco bread crumbs. They give the coating a very pleasant crunch. My mother-in-law (who eats lots of fish we fillet for her and FIL) has no teeth so she does not like the Panco because it makes it too crunchy for her. But if anyone has not tried the Panco bread crumbs give it a try as part of the mix in your fish coating.

We like a little home made tartar sauce made with Miracle Whip or mayonnaise, adding a touch of mustard to taste (gives it nice yellow color) and sweet pickle relish mixed up in whatever proportions look and taste right.

Fuzzy picture of the coated, air fryer fried fish below along with slaw, home canned pickled green tomatoes, hush puppies and some tartar sauce. Yumm. This fish could be either CC or BG.

FYI...I saw on TV they gutted and headed the CC, then vertical cuts along the body about an inch apart and to the backbone deep, skin on!, then work the fryer mix into the cuts and all over and deep fry. Looked mighty good!

I bet it would be. My wife likes filleting everything, even small GSF and BG that many people would scale and gut whole. And who am I to argue with her? (not that great of an idea to do so).

She is willing to try new things but with just the two of us for most meals our portion sizes for cooking each meal are small.

When we fillet a batch of fish she will soak them in water with a little milk for a few hours or over night. Then cut the fillets into the size pieces we like, then freeze them on a cookie sheet in the freezer. When the individual pieces are frozen enough to be firm or solid she then either vacuum seals them in freezer bags or puts them in zip lock bags (for stuff we will use soon) and throws the bags of fish nuggets/sticks in the freezer.

Then it is just a matter of when we want fish for a meal to take out however many pieces we want to eat for that meal. No waste and almost as convenient as buying store bought fish. We actually like them a little better after being frozen than cooked fresh, but I know many people would disagree with that.

That is kind of the method to her fish madness. She is one heck of a good cook.

The 14 foot pole makes the fight even harder. I have had them sulk on the bottom for a bit, and then nothing you can do but keep some pressure on them for fear of straightening that #10 hook. They will eventually come up. If you catch and release in hot weather, a fight on light tackle can kill a larger fish. (I know you keep the larger size CC). My water is so hot I haven't fished it in weeks.

Thanks! I'm gonna have to try it. I like BG (better than crappie, actually) too, but it takes a lot to get much meat.

I was horrible at cleaning fish to begin with and am still not great. But after the first few hundred I have gotten pretty proficient at filleting BG. We have so many fish we do not even try to get every last morsel of meat. I fillet the BG around the rib cage boneless and leave the head, guts and tail all intact. On the smaller ones do not even try to get any of the lower rib belly meat. On the larger ones will cut through the pin bones then the wife will pull the pin bones out later when she is prepping them for freezing.

I know lots of people like to eat them bone in but it is just not our thing.

Probably a third or fourth of the BG carcasses go back in the pond to feed the CC. I usually cut it up in three pieces, head, body and tail section before throwing it back in the pond. If I clean only a half dozen fish I will put it all back in the water but if we clean a big batch will only throw in what I think the CC will clean up quickly. The CC carcass we always take to the pasture along with any excess BG cleanings for the coons and coyotes. 24 hours later it will be gone.

While I am filleting I like to slice off a little meat I missed and throw it to the waiting BG to watch them snatch it up. The cleaning station I added to our dock is the cats meow for cleaning fish. Carolynn and I both filleting can clean a days catch in no time. Spray it off into the pond and cleanup is done. We have really made use of the cleaning station. Edit: we have since removed the rinky dink faucet that came with the cleaning station and replaced it with a kitchen retractable spray hose. It works much better than the faucet. Use the kitchen one as we are cleaning fish then the one on the garden hose with more reach to clean off the station when we are finished.

Love cleaning station idea -- it's way too messy indoors & my bride wouldn't appreciate that!

We cleaned some pretty nice CC lately (up to 4#) and wife decided to "smoke" some of the CC and see how it turned out. We wondered if it would be anything like smoked salmon. The results were pretty good (I'm not a big fan of smoked salmon but she is). Something additional she did with the smoked CC is to make smoked Channel Catfish Dip. It looked and tasted kind of like Tuna dip would be but much milder. She took a batch to a knit-in for a bunch of her girlfriends to try and they liked it a lot (funny how she gets to have lots of girlfriends but won't allow me to have even one other than her)

Having some left over and needing lunch today she made Smoked Channel Catfish Patty's. Made the dip into patty's, coated them in Panko bread crumbs and fried them.

She thought they were great and I thought they were "pretty good". Told her I would eat them again and they needed a little more spice. Some Cajun spice or some more "kick", and she agreed. The smoked CC is just pretty darn mild and bland. I will say I liked them better than salmon pattys and if a person likes salmon pattys I think they would like these.

So if anyone wants to smoke some CC fillets, go ahead and try it. It is pretty good and can be made into some other pretty good stuff.

Picture below.

Wife and I did a little fishing late afternoon yesterday and invited a few fish to attend a future dinner party. Four CC that ranged 2-3# and one baby CC. Plus four nice size HBG with three around 8" and the one pictured below at 9", all got to meet the fish cleaning station on our dock. I really like the hybrids for all around fun sunfish fishing and table fare.

Also caught several nice male BG about the same size but they went back in the pond to catch another day.

PBF get together in SE Kansas

I'm gonna quote you John from 2013..."I don't fish. It just seemed like with such a nice pond it was a shame not to put some fish in..."

Seems you've learned to like to fish or eatin' fish takes precedence.

NICE CATCH! Next year, I'll be posting 9" hybrid blues (with a little luck).

Yes, you might say I've became "hooked", pun intended.

Thing is, I only fish my own ponds. Don't fish anywhere else. And today I fished a couple hours and fished mostly for management reasons catching some small fish on purpose. I do enjoy fishing for my larger fish also, but I really spend more time "management" fishing for relatively small and unimportant fish and I like that just as well. My favorite "lure" is a 1/64 oz jig hook, tipped with a tiny morsel. I use it 90% of the time.

So I would say it is the pond, the management, the feeding and just being around the stuff more than the actual fishing itself.

PBF get together September 22, 2018

Took this picture last Thursday when the storm went through that brought us some much needed rain. I call it "angry pond".

Second picture is what was for dinner tonight. CC nuggets and fixings.

PBF get together in September

Wife as well as my FIL and MIL really like the smoked CC. So Carolynn requested we go CC fishing this afternoon so she could smoke some more of it. She really had to twist my arm to get me to go but I relented and took her fishing. She was on fire today. We caught 7 CC one at 5.75# and one at 5.25. She caught all of them except a couple of under 2# ones I caught. We also ended up with 13 HBG and GSF to add to the fillets (plus a few nice BG that we released) so all in all a nice afternoon of pond fishing.

Picture shows the largest CC and the fillets of the other big one. Also a couple pictures of HBG. These HBG are not purchased HBG but natural hybrids mostly conceived in my sediment pond and moved to this main 3 acre pond to grow out.

No trophy's but some nice fillet size fish and some "quality" time with my wife for a nice late afternoon outing.

John, looking back at the start of this thread. "Never been one for fishing, but".

Well it grew on me!

Dave raising a family and farming seemed like a full time job most of my life. Not much time to even think about fishing and what spare time we had my other passions, motorcycle riding and scuba diving, took precedence.

Now being mostly retired, I have more time to do other things (and my tired body can only stand so much scuba diving and motorcycle riding these days although I do still enjoy both).

It is still more about being out around the pond than the fishing, but I do also enjoy the fishing. If I didn't have the pond out my back door I probably still would not be fishing.

I'm having trouble finding your address to the get together. I think im only 30 minutes from ya.

I'll post the exact location a couple weeks before the get together. I'm only a little over a mile from the Kansas Crossing Casino. I'll PM you.

SE Kansas PBF get together September 22, 2018

Had some recent rains causing my sediment and forage ponds to overflow into the main pond (normal). One thing that fascinates me is how small BG desire to swim upstream. It is hard to make out the fish in the pictures but the 1" long BG are massed together in this flowing water crowded up against rocks or anything that gets them temporarily out of the current while they rest getting ready to make a run against the current trying to get upstream into another pond. There are hundreds of them staging. In one picture it looks like a couple BG are stranded and perhaps dead. But when I put my finger down by them they took off. They will find any crack or depression to get out of the current while waiting to make the run.

I see this every time there is a rain that causes this overflow. Sometimes the fish are of a larger size, often times 2-3" fish. If the water is at just the right flow amount, the main pond at the right height I have witnessed 3" BG swim up the waterfall flowing into the 90 degree elbo of the overflow pipe and make it from my main pond to the sediment pond. None have ever made it into my forage pond. Out of hundreds of trys in the sediment pond I saw 3 fish make it. None of these small fish in the pictures will make it. Water level is too low in the main pond. But it will not keep them from trying. Persistence.

The last picture of one of the fish with my fingers for size comparison. Fish between 1 and 1.5".

It is no wonder fish move from one BOW to another in the most shallow water.

PBF informal get together September 22, 2018

Thanks for documenting this so clearly and so well! Everytime someone proposes that fish got into a body of water by holding on (with their fins apparently) to raccoon legs or that eggs get stuck on duck feathers.... the 1" long bluegill are feeling very slighted that they do not get the credit they deserve for being incredibly tenacious.

To see these tiny beings saving energy and throwing everything they got into swimming UPHILL in a torrent of water and some of them actually making it.. it speaks to how fish are more likely to transport THEMSELVES to other bodies of water rather than hitching a ride...

I would love to see others especially in southern states set up game cameras by tiny puddles or ponds and see how the fish get into them. I hear that gambusia will show up 'by themselves' in almost any body of water. It seems if you took a backhoe and dug a little depression and set up a game camera, and if fish did show up in there that it should be pretty easy to catch the GBH or raccoon or duck that landed there. And if they don't drop in from the sky or are carried in by another creature, then that puddle of water should stay void of fish, right?

Great things we learn on this forum!

My old pond and RES pond are side by side, separated by only maybe 100 feet. I built a terrace out into the field (actually a long extension of the dam on the RES pond) quite a long ways specifically for keeping the BH and GSF that I know are in my old pond from getting in my RES pond. In heavy downpours a sheet of water could be coming off the agricultural field and open a pathway for the unwanted fish to migrate. I think a half inch of water is all that is needed for very small fish.

I'm not absolutely sure even the terrace will be absolute control. Some day there may be enough runoff that fish could migrate anyway. But at the very least, just from a numbers game, it should keep the migration to a significantly lower level that what it could have been. If I had just built the dam that the pond "needed" a heavy rain with both ponds overflowing their emergency overflows they would have either almost or actually joined BOW's.

Having had experience with GSF and BH contamination in other ponds and seeing the potential in my brand new RES pond, I went to some length (moved some extra dirt) to prevent it.

One thing about fish contamination, it is much worse to get it early than late. Even if I do get contamination at some later date the desired species will already have established populations and a few unwanted fish will have a hard time getting established to a point of ruining the pond.

Fish looks skinny. Little hard to tell by the picture but measured right at 18" or just a little more. Did not weigh it. It looked to be healthy and swam away well when released but in the picture it looks kind of skinny to me. Definitely no lack of forage in the pond because there is an abundance of BG and not enough LMB.

I might have culled this one but since I am short on LMB anyway I put it back. I had caught a 3-4" BG on a 1/32 oz jig and decided to just leave it on the hook. Tossed the line and BG back out and the bass took the BG and I landed it. Pretty good fight on a lightweight 9' crappie rod.

I hardly ever fish specifically for LMB so I do not catch too many. Was a bit of a surprise.

That LMB is losing weight. It appears that it use to be heaver and is shrinking. How old do you think the LMB is ?
To have that size head and dorsal body mass indicates a much larger fish at one point in time.

I'd have culled it, though with a heavy heart. But my BOW has lots of LMB, so even an 18 inch skinny one is not an asset.

It could very well be one of the original stocked, IIRC five years ago this fall.

It looked thin to me. Otherwise I did not see any external problems with it and it fought well.

Here are some more pictures of fish trying to swim up a water stream into my sediment pond. I don't think any of these fish will make it. The main pond is up in the tube now so the fish can rest better but the water dropping into the tube has to be at just the right flow rate. It might have been earlier in the day before I got there though.

Some GSF. Lots of BG

I've had virtually no recruitment from my LMB for the last few years so my BG population has gotten too large creating too many small and medium sized BG but few really large ones. If left unchecked I feel like the situation will turn into stunted BG. I've been feeding and harvesting a lot so the BG are staying in relative good body condition but there are still just too many of them.

So starting nearly a year ago last fall the decision was to raise some LMB fingerlings up to the 10-12" size in my sediment pond and transfer them over to the main pond to help with the BG control. If I get the LMB population more in balance it should take care of the BG over population and allow the LMB to start getting some natural recruitments.

I put a hundred 4-6" LMB in the sediment pond last December and thought it was a bust. I had only caught and moved a half dozen fish, figuring the rest had died. Well turns out I just did not know how to catch them. By using various large lures and lately GSH on a circle hook under a bobber have transferred about 30 LMB to this main pond. Most were in the 10-12" range with a couple 9" runts and one fatty 16" (I suspect it ate some of its brothers and sisters). First picture below is of kind of an average one.

In addition have been adding a few SMB from my RES/SMB pond. Caught two 13" ones tonight and transferred. Second picture is of the first one. This makes 7 of these transferred in the 12-13" range. I've also transferred a half dozen in the 6-8" range.

Hopefully all the transfers will do well and get my BG population under control.

Edit: added picture of the LMB fingerlings when stocked December 6, 2017

Got the new Texas Hunter feeder in and got it installed. Model DF125DL.

It is the smallest model and I hope I don't regret getting the smaller one. But 70# of capacity should last me almost a week at the rate I feed from the feeder. I'll still hand feed a couple other spots around the pond. I ultimately went with the small one because it could be shipped UPS and the larger ones have to go motor freight. Had the medium one in the cart till I found out it came motor freight. Since the pond is near my house and I am out there daily I figure will just dump a bag of feed in every three or four days.

I did a single rate test of Aquamax MVP feed. A gallon of AM MVP weighs about 3.4#. I dumped that in the feeder and set the test run to run 60 seconds. Timed it and it took 47 seconds for the 3.4# to run out. So according to my calculations the feed rate is approximately 14 seconds for each pound of feed distributed (factory feed plate setting). I only did a single test so not very scientific but it should be in the ball park.

Fish were hitting the pellets as soon as they hit the water. Of course they have been used to me feeding off the dock all spring so not surprising.

Right now I have it set for 25 seconds at 7am, 30 seconds at 8am, 30 seconds at 6pm and 30 seconds at 7pm. Should be around 8# per day on my main 3 acre pond. Will feed probably another 3# by hand in a couple other spots on the opposite side most days.

Pictures of the dock mounting below. The feeder sits about 70 feet from the shore line out over the water.

I have that same feeder and love it, although 100# lasts a month. Beautiful set up and pond you have John

Thanks Pat!

That is quite a nice family recreation area you've created.

Gorgeous water. I've heard other people say that 9 seconds by TH feeder is one pound, but perhaps this depends on size of feeder & of course the feed.

Do you throw strictly BG feed or larger LMB pellets? I've had some issues with LMB pellets getting stuck, even when throw plate is adjusted.

Snrub it looks like you have put together a nice place. Your feeding a lot more MVP feed than me even though I have 3 feeders throwing @ 5 sec per day per feeder. I make up some the difference in feed weight by hand throwing about 4 lbs of Aqumax lmb. And I will sometimes hand throw some additional mvp.


Right now I am seeing quite a few smaller cnbg around the feeders but not seeing all that many small ones around the ponds bank. But the lmb and hsb continue to have RW's well above 100%.

Nice work Snrub ! That is a good feeder. Nice place ! The fish you transferred in should help reduce the BG #s. BG have small stomachs (1-3 pellets) but can digest quickly in warm temps. With that info you can design your feeding program to meet your goals. Adjust to fit your situation - more feeds but shorter duration close in time helps spread food to more fish - so to does few but longer feeds (everyone has time to eat and fill-up) - in the middle is adjustable to feed your target fish. Just a thought.

Beautiful spot Snrub!

I have had the same size TH feeder (LM135, 70 lb. capacity) for the last two-plus years but I only feed a touch over a pound of pellets twice each day. The factory setting of the spin plate is not consistent on every unit I believe. My factory setting threw 4.3 ounces of MVP every 10 seconds which was much less than what customer service at TH HQ told me the factory setting would throw (don't get me wrong, TH customer service is awesome).

That was not a problem because it is easy to get to the spin plate and adjust the gap between the hopper and the plate with a hex key. They recommended only making 1/16 inch adjustments at a time. I now have it set to throw 8.5 ounces of MVP every 10 seconds so each feeding time dropped from 40 seconds to 20 seconds twice each day.

I am only doing supplemental feeding at that particular 1.6 acre pond so I thought about 2 lbs. each day total was good as we have plenty of BG forage for the LMB.

And also, that is one hell of a dock Snrub! Really nice. BM61.

Thanks Anthropic. The water is colored with midnight blue pond dye that has been diluted due to recent rains and is a really pretty color right now. It is starting to get an algae bloom so taking on a green cast to the blue color, which it needs with the new BG fry I am seeing.

Good info bassmaster61. I knew the feed plate could be adjusted but did not think about it being set differently on different units from the factory. I can see also where different feeds would have different feed rates. I would think AM600 would feed differently than AM500 or MVP. I like the feed rate where mine is set. I actually changed the settings today to 16 seconds each at 7, 8, and 9am and 5, 6, 7pm. Way too many choices. May drive myself nuts trying to figure out the best feed pattern.

Eric I have always fed around the circumference of the pond so have had lots of growth but few of the largest BG. Lots of medium size BG but few really big ones. With the feeder I am hoping there will be a few "pigs" that hang around the feeder and get a few of my BG to the size I see some of the other ponds on this forum sport.

Thanks everyone for the compliments.

John, if my experience is anything to go by, you will likely get some absolute BG pigs hanging around the feeder. Maximum Three and a half year old CNBG was 10.5 inches and very fat when my granddaughter caught him near a feeder this winter.

An interesting experiment to try. Try hand feeding at different times after the feeder has gone off. Like 1 hour one day and then 2 hours the next day and try to gauge what size fish are eating.

I have several questions about feeding my fish.


My pond is a 3 acre strip pit: Good population of BG, LMB, and FHM. Small population of BCP, and RES. And just stocked CC, HBG, and HSB. I feed using a TH feeder, feeding 10am 6 seconds, 2pm 6 seconds, and 6pm 6 seconds. The BG are the only species of fish I have coming to the feeder and this is my second year of feeding my fish. My goal is to get more fish to come to the feed especially CC, HBG, HSB, and LMB.

1. If you use MVP food in a TH feeder will it throw the pellets equally(roughly the same amount of each size pellet) or will the smaller pellet size sift to the bottom of the feeder after a few feed cycles. Making it then throw predominately only one size of pellet.

2. If feed is stored over winter does it loose nutritional value and/or be less attractive to the fish.

3. If you switch from Optimal feeds to similar size Purina Aquamax feeds or vice versa will the fish still eat them as usual or in your experience is it best to stick with one brand.

4. I've been attempting to hand feed in a different 1/2 acre portion of my pond where the fish typically spawn and I see lots of FHM and baby BG. I have gotten FHM and a few small BG to eat, but was looking for suggestions to get LMB and a larger number of BG to eat.

5. I only feed for 18 seconds total each day, but my BG only will eat what I have provided so far. I've seen at other peoples ponds and read about the fish boiling the water when people feed. But I only have about 30- 40 adult BG that come to the feed and they never go crazy over it. Currently feeding Optimal BG mixed with Junoir. I fed AM 500 last year. Would you recommend feeding at more times than three a day and at what times of the day would you recommended setting the feeder?

6. I've read that your BG will only respond to feeding as consistent as you are at feeding them and when I hand feed it is typically at different times of the day, not on a set daily time. Has anyone had experience ringing a bell to attract the fish when hand feeding or any other way to get them to come in.

7. I stocked 50 CC 6-8", 40 HSB 4-6", and 200 HBG 3-4" on April 13th. I stocked them just to have more species of fish to watch eat fish food. I have not seen any of them since I released them and I observe my pond daily. Is it safe to say they probably got eaten by my LMB and BCP. I realive I didn't stock very many fish, especially for the size of my pond, but I at least thought I'd see some swimming around. I'm guessing it would be smarter to buy 11-14" CC and 6-8" HSB next time.

Heath are your LMB feed trained?
I have never seen any cc at the feeder since I put them in 3 years ago but you can catch them away from the feeder. My BG blow up when the TH feeder goes off. If you are close you will get wet! A good quality feed with40+ protein is the key in my opinion. Older feed will lose its usefulness and the fish won�t eat it as well, I use Cargill 4512 and they wolf it down. Other brands are not that available around me . I won�t buy any feed that is more than three months old but that�s me. You can tell the difference in their feeding

PS LMB are difficult to feed train that weren�t raised that way

I stomp around on the dock and throw in a handful of feed and it�s on, you might try different feed and let the fish tell you what they want. I was feeding TS feed and they lost weight and barely ate it , went back to the good stuff and they gained weight and literally jump out of the water after it

Thanks Pat Williamson for the response.

My LMB are not feed trained. I've thought about buying some, but was afraid they would get eaten by my existing LMB and BCP. Also I figured to get LMB in a large enough size that they wouldn't get eaten would be very expensive. Do you have feed trained LMB in your pond Pat?

My TH feeder was about half full with feed from last fall when I started feeding this year, that might explain why the fish aren't feeding as aggressively as I'd like.

I'll have to try stomping on my dock as you mentioned. I've heard snrub say he drives a vehicle or gator to where he feeds the fish and they respond to the vibration in the ground and know it's time to feed.

Heath I have a few that feed trained themselves lol. I also have crappie in my pond and they have not overcrowded like the LMB have done. This is the first year that I seem to have an abundance of baby BG. This spring I plucked out a double digit LMB out of it. Pond is going on 5years old. My thinking is to feed the BG the best feed that you can and the rest sorta takes care of itself. ( not really) but it helps

That's cool they trained themselves. Congratulations on a double digits bass, they're hard to come by.

Heath...I stocked 1-1.25 pound LMB into our 1.6 acre pond that had an existing LMB population. It has worked out really well. Those stockers were obviously feed trained. I think it is safe to say very few or none of the existing population have been "trained" on the feed. We feed MVP using a TX Hunter feeder.

The adult stockers were all 14" or a little longer so their survival rate appears to be pretty good. They are mostly 3 pounds plus now after stocking in June of 2017.

You might consider giving that a try. BM61.

Hey Snrub, did you get any storm damage? Looks like yesterday's storms hit your area pretty hard, hopefully everyone is safe.
John

I missed your post KingRace. Must not have been too bad as I don't remember it. We got hit mildly with a tornado way back when I was down south in the winter of 2018-2019 that did a little damage to some sheds but not bad.

Water temperature at the pond 57 today at the surface.

Finally got some action with a few BG hitting some feed I threw out by hand. Had tried a week ago and nothing. Rain tomorrow but supposed to have warm temps and sun later in the week so will put the feeder back out on the dock and start light feeding.

Turned the aeration on for an hour to make sure it was working. Set the timer for an hour a day just to get things started up. Will increase it as it warms up.

Friend caught a 3# bass Sunday so I guess there are still LMB out there.

FA is coming on like gangbusters. Have pond dye ordered but they delayed shipping a week. Should be here by late in the week. Probably needed it in a month ago but with all the rain and flooding it would have been purged mostly out of the pond with the overflow anyway. So all is well that ends well.

Starting to get things going around the pond after being gone all winter.

Friends did some fishing in the main pond and caught a few LMB and one SMB. Some of the LMB pictured below.

The bass are finally doing pretty good. They caught a few small ones that would have been last years spawn so finally the LMB are reproducing. I have had a bit of a problem with my BG over populating and the LMB not spawning. We worked on harvesting the BG the last couple years and stocked some additional LMB a couple years ago. I think we are getting in a pretty good balance now which ought to last for about 15 minutes. Have not harvested any bass to date but that may start if we start catching lots of small LMB. I thought these LMB looked pretty good.

6.25#, 4.81# and 4.38#

Those look real nice.

A double digit LMB out of your own pond! Congratulations are in order, Pat!

Anthropic
That’s the second one caught one last spring that was larger. Didn’t know it was that difficult to do that cause I have caught 2 out of my neighbors pond (let them go). But heck I just want nice crappie! Lol

What are you and your neighbor doing? I assume these are Florida or F1 bass?

snrub, the lmb look good, where is the pic of the smallie? Good to here the lmb are doing better.

Frank, I think he is feeding them crappie

Tracy that’s mean!

Anthropic
They are native bass . My neighbor has done nothing and I mean nothing to grow them to that size.. guess they would be northern LMB?

Pat, I thought it was funny lol

It was Tracy

Crappie are suitable for bass consumption more than human. 😏

There has been discussion in the past about how far north CNBG would survive and or thrive. Generally my location in SE Kansas is considered a little too far north. What I have heard is about mid Oklahoma and south is where they are best suited.

But I just loved the looks of them so had to try some. I got some from Dunn's Fish Farm route truck a couple years ago and put them in my ------sediment pond ------to grow out. Over a period of a year or so I caught as many as I could and transferred them over into my main pond. They grew well in the sediment pond.

They have done fairly well now in my main pond and I catch one every once in a while. Native BG for sure still dominate the population in my main pond but the CNBG seem to be doing fine and I have also had successful spawns from them as I have been catching a few smaller ones also.

Thing of it is, I can't say we have had any severe winter since stocking. So they may do fine for a while then one year have a big winter kill. I hope not but realize that as a possibility. Coming from Dunn's there is some speculation that their strain may be slightly better winter adapted than from hatcheries further south. Speculation being the key word. Dunn's do use the CNBG as the BG source in their HBG which they sell a lot of.

Pictures below of a couple of recent catches. First a male (8-9") and the second smaller one I presume a female. I catch one once in a while that appears it could be an inter grade mix of BG and CNBG but surprisingly not as many as I would have guessed.

Edit: Oops. After looking at the second picture not certain about it being female. A lot of black tipping of scales. Not sure. Could be a young male??? Maybe a spawn from some of the original stockers.

snrub. just wondering if you see any size difference between your cnbg and your native bg? If you were to take your largest cnbg verses your largest native bg is there much difference? As I understand it. the cnbg grow to a larger size over our native bg down here in NE TX.

I am at the lake house located on Caddo Lake where it is well known for its bg fishing. When fishing for our native bg here I would say that I usually keep the ones that seem to be topped out at or around 7" or maybe 8" for eating. I've not caught a single one that compares to the size of cnbg I have in the pond. But if I was to take some of those natives (transfer to the pond) and feed them like the cnbg get fed, how big can I get them? I also wonder what size I might get if they were to breed with each other? Maybe someday if I ever get my forage pond going then I can take a better look at the native bg and their growth when feed high protein feed every day.

I don't have a good answer for that Tracy. I was not aware the CNBG get bigger. We just like them because they are "purdy".

Guess I have not seen any difference. The one difference I notice concerning sunfish is that the hybrids are feed hogs and reach harvest-able size quickly because of it. That does not address your question, but adds to the conversation that feed availability and amount matters a lot. We have harvested 233 sunfish so far this calendar year and probably thirty or so were GSF, maybe 10 were BG and the rest HBG. We put all the good looking BG back into the water. So we have significantly thinned the herd mostly around the feeder of the HBG. The idea being give some of the BG a better chance at the feed.

I have not had an ideal setup to grow huge BG as our LMB population has been low for about every year up to this year when I am finally starting to catch some LMB from last years spawn. We have had an over abundance of sunfish and have had to harvest heavily to try and keep the numbers down. So a one pound BG is big for our pond. Now that the bass population is up (both LMB and SMB that I have been adding from another pond) I hope the BG population will be kept in better check and we might get a larger percentage of larger BG.

I really am a pan fish angler and the big bass don't do much for me. I like stuff under 3# and fast action. Do have a few friends that like to catch the bigger bass though so having a few around is not that bad.

I really hope my fishery is transitioning to more BG oriented with a higher bass population to keep the BG numbers more ideal. Then maybe I will get a chance to see just how big those CNBG will get.

I think this bass must have been on the same keto diet I'm on. Kind of skinny at 3.5#. Actually Carolynn caught it and I suggested she get in the picture but she had her top off too getting some vitamin D sunshine and suggested it would not be an appropriate photo. So you are stuck with my ugly mug. She was happy with it and considering this old refurbished pond is our "trash" pond where we throw everything we either don't want to eat and don't want in another pond it isn't too bad. We fished it and removed a mess of probably 15 HBG that were good eating size. Trying to thin the herd a little so the rest can grow some more. Put them in the holding pen and will fillet them when it gets a little cooler this evening.

Also a picture of a resident diamondback water snake. It was particularly friendly today, letting us get up within about 6' for a picture before moving on down the bank.

Damn how many pounds ya down now. We get alot of those snakes also. Those r fun size to catch.

Have a three acre main pond behind the house. A 1/20th acre forage pond and 1/10th acre sediment pond that both feed into the main pond. Then across our small seasonal creek there is the 1 acre old pond that I refurbished when I built the main pond. That is the one the bass came out of. Then next to it I built a new pond three years ago now that is also about 1 acre and it is dedicated to RES and SMB only.

So I guess five all together here on the home place. Around 5 acres of water total.

John, we're gonna have to call you the Pound Boss!

Not me!

But the real Pond Boss, Bob Lusk, did show up here and expounded some of his wisdom at my get together a couple years ago. It was a good time. May do it again some day if we ever get over this "rona" virus thing.

Hey Skinny, congrats

That skinny lmb may be due to a late spawn up there in Kansas. i had some on beds in May and could see where you may have had some on beds in June. Now as far as u? I can not say how bedding effects come into play

Bedding effects are a lot better when me and my partner lose 160 pounds between the two of us.......literally.

Just noticed yesterday in the RES/SMB pond a small school of about 3" long SMB fry swim along the edge of the bank while I was fishing. Was surprised a SMB had spawned that late.

Pictures are of Saturday morning chores before it gets hot. Had 35 in the holding pen, mostly hybrid BG and hybrid RES with a couple stray GSF we filleted this morning. Caught over the last couple days. No CC this time which is unusual.

Edit: wife hates it when I take pictures of her in clothes that were never meant to be in public.

The hybrid RESxGSF she is filleting came out of the RES/SMB pond and weighed 1.2#. Wish they were all like that! 360 sunfish (90% being hybrids) and 53 CC harvested this year to date out of the ponds. Not counting a bunch of smaller ones I clip the fins and put back for bass food. So far returning most of the pure BG and RES back to the water as we catch them as long as they are attractive looking specimens. Keeping the hybrids for the table.

The CNBG males went back in the water. One was out of our old pond and one out of the main pond. I really like the looks of CNBG. They are pretty fish. The picture does not do them justice.

Last one of course is a RES about 8" long. It also came out of the RES/SMB pond.

Put on the scuba gear and dove in the three big ponds. All murky and couldn't see crap. Extend the arm and could see the back of the hand but fingers disappear into the murk.

Grandson had not been diving for a couple years and we are going to the Bahamas with him in a couple weeks so I wanted to make sure his gear still worked properly and that he was ok in the water. He was like a fish. No problem.

The RES/SMB pond looked clearest so we started there. Did find out that the pond bottom was completely denuded of bushy pond weed. Nothing but mud down there. Thinking maybe I need to find a way to take out some grass carp. A little bit of cold water at depth so there was a loose thermocline. Did have one fish bite me on the leg to let me know I was not supposed to be there.

Then went to the old pond. Looked around the spatterdock lilies. That pond has a single deep spot and there was a definitive thermocline in it. Pitch black and cold down there. Like being in a cave, doesn't matter if you have your eyes open or closed, it is the same darkness.

Moved on to the main pond which has bottom diffused aeration. No definitive thermocline although there was a slight difference in temperature at depth. There were also pockets of cooler water in different spots around the pond, but nothing like the thermocline in the old pond. We did go around to the three double diffusers and clean them off, which they needed as I never got it done last year. They were crudded up somewhat but not as bad as I expected and they cleaned off easier than I expected. Grandson cleaned two but I had him leave the last one for me so I would know how much stuff was on it. Got "bumped" pretty hard on my right side by something, I presume by the magnitude it was a CC but I suppose it could have been a larger BG or RES. Whatever it was it did not like me there because as I was cleaning the diffuser disks it rammed me in the side of my bouyency compensator (BC jacket) where the weight pockets are. Nothing severe but I could definitely feel it.

All in all about an hour in the three ponds in the water and although we never saw any fish I did learn some things about the thermoclines or lack thereof in the different ponds. To see fish we would have to stay very still for a long time in one location and let the fish come to us and the grandson was not so much into that. Still it was instructional, got the dive gear checked out and his skills checked out as well as the diffusers cleaned so mission accomplished.

How NOT to mow your pond bank edge.................

The main pond was so low and dry along the edge I just put one set of tires of the tractor down in the bank and mowed around the pond. Worked fine.

Then I went to the RES/SMB pond. Started working fine. Then as both the front and rear tire started squishing down into the pond and the front tire getting wet I remembered something. I had expanded that pond and in doing so had tapered only the top edge about three feet.........then it was a straight drop off to about 8 feet because the extension on the pond I did while the rest of the pond still was mostly full. So I basically cut a trench with the dozer on that end of the pond then raised the overflow pipe a foot. Well my tractor was crushing that vertical wall and I did not want to see how deep it still was. Of course my cab only has a left door (too cheap to buy the hinge and door handle for the right glass). And I went around the pond the wrong way so my door side was open to the water, Hmmmm.......probably did not think this one through. So I called my wife for help and crawled out through the back window onto the mower. That was not so easy for a 68 year old guy.

So we got a chain and the telehandler and pulled it right out, no worse for wear. I had tried one time to back it out before calling her and lets just say it was a tense moment as the tractor headed sideways for open water. Picture attached.

Senior moment??????

John,
Whew, that was close!

I had a couple of moments like that when I was cleaning out the drained sediment pond this summer. I got stuck, the compact tractor started to tilt, so I quickly put the bucket down and got the 4WD pickup and chain. Wife drove pickup, I steered the tractor, and it came right out. If I had known in advance how dry it would get this summer, I would have waited a few more days before getting down close to the muck.

Zoinks!!!!

The picture really kicks things into a different realm!!!

I wouldn't quite call it a 'senior' moment..... Maybe more so of a retiree's care-free life and attitude??

Probably a more accurate description would be "stupidity moment".

Yipes! I'll bet the material on the seat has a nicely pressed crease in the middle where your butt cheeks were clenched together trying to stay in the seat. LOL

In the 3rd pic from the bottom above of the CNBG, do they normally have that blue on the gills/face or could there be a hint of RES in that one?

I was asked this question by a customer and I honestly told him that I had no idea.

He asked "If the secchi disc reads 4 feet from above, how far down does a fish have to go to be completely in the dark?" His pond goes down to 28' max depth.

Can you fill in that bit of information?

I'm going to say there is no RES in that CNBG, but that is just a guess on my part. You have known me long enough to know I am definitely no expert. The CNBG stock originally came from Dunn's Fish Farm which if I recall correctly is pretty far north in CNBG territory, so who knows what is in the strain. There are RES in the pond (as noted in the bottom picture) so hybridization is always a possibility. I might be able to give you a better answer in a few years. In my RES/SMB pond, with only RES lepomis stocked, I stocked a single adult male CNBG. I am hoping for some RES/CNBG hybrids from that experiment.

Hard to say what fish can see. From my lake diving spearfishing time a lifetime ago I can say pretty confidently that fish can see us under water before we can see them. I also know in my pond at 9 ft depth at my air diffusers with my eyes open or closed, makes no difference. It is black. That said in Bonaire (in Houston about to get on a plane to there now), I can be at 165 feet and see perfectly well. So it all depends on the clarity of the water.

Edit: as noted in the description of the photos above, there were a few hybrids mistakenly put in the RES/SMB pond, so RES only stocking of that pond was the target but a few mutts slipped in when I misidentified specimens that were too small for me to do a positive ID. They would have definitely been RES/GSF cross out of my forage pond. Once they get a little size, the GSF influence is easy to see.

Thanks for the info!!!

Yep, the GSF influence is easy to see. It’s even easier to feel when it starts stretching your string.

Those RES/GSF hybrids in that RES/SMB pond were definitely agressive and fought pretty good. They were surprisingly easy to catch, expecially compared to the RES in that pond. I caught........ maybe a dozen of the hybrids all together out of that pond. They also would agressively feed on pelets along with the SMB. The RES, not so much. They sure grew well. All the ones I caught (and removed from the pond) were fat and sassy.

I just hope they did not have any influence on the RES in that pond as far as reproduction goes. Have no idea if they were mostly males or even mix of if they spawned or attempted to spawn. I hope not. Not that I have anything wrong with that mix of hybrid. They actually make pretty fish, fight good and are fun and easy to catch. The only problem is I was not wanting anything but RES in that pond. Until I added the single male CNBG then was hoping for some CNBG/RES hybrids. The GSF/RES hybrids just weren'tt supposed to be in that particular pond.

That could have gone very badly. Glad you got it stopped before it went into the drink.

You and me both!

Very scary scenario, especially with the only door facing into the water. That back glass would be very difficult to open underwater, with air in the cab. That pic and description still makes me cringe. Maybe an open station tractor with a ROPS would be safer around a pond.