New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..)

Posted by: Snipe

New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..) - 10/26/18 02:27 AM

Wow!! Can't believe the wealth of information here.
I'm new to the forums here and just wanted to express my thanks to Bill Cody for a big part of my inspiration to build my new smallie pond.
I finished construction of my 3/4 acre pond mid summer this year and stocked Fatheads about 4 months ago and followed with yellow perch, redear and smallmouth about 90 days ago and just finished a 7 day trap net set that produced some amazing results in such a short period of time.
My issue here in NW KS is the very fine sandy loam soil type. I had to use soda ash as a sealing agent due to less than 3% clay particulates and I'm worried about water clarity issues long term for the SMB.. This pond is fed by well water through a 2" main run down on top of bottom seal with a riser to act as an augmentor if needed.
I stocked my SMB after about 2 months of fathead spawning and at 90 days, my SMB went from an average of 55mm to an average of 114mm for the sample. My largest was 141mm (about 5.5"). My SMB sample was relatively small at only 9 fish so maybe I'm ok but I noted my Redear went from ave 60mm to 135mm and yellow perch 95mm to 210mm ave. I have very minimal aquatic vegetation but literally several hundred ton of rock substrate in the form of large concrete chunk, 2-5" rock/rubble down to pea gravel. WR's of the SMB were low (90-ish) on the larger specimens to around 140 on the smaller fish sampled. Granted some of this could be my WR formulas were meant for 150mm + SMB. I'm hoping time will show a better sample of SMB but I'm wondering if water clarity is more of an issue than I think??
Disk reading has varied from 18" to 30" at the clearest.
If someone would have any suggestions, I'm very open to ideas.. I know this system is extremely young but the excitement is hard to hold back.
Posted by: Quarter Acre

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 10/26/18 07:27 AM

Welcome to the club Snipe, it sounds like you will fit in very well here with your obvious excitement regarding the hobby. It sounds like you are experiencing the great benefits of the great FHM...keep up the good work!
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 10/26/18 12:32 PM

Welcome to the forum.

I'm in the opposite corner of Kansas and stocked SMB last December. I already have recruitment with lots of 4-6" YOY SMB.

Good luck and keep us informed on progress.
Posted by: NEDOC

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 10/26/18 02:49 PM

You'll be fine with SMB with 18-30" readings. I have a great SMB pond and that's about where my readings are.

Keep us updated.
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 10/26/18 09:16 PM

Thanks guys. looking fwd to this!
snrub, I read some of your crawfish info and noted your location, I lived just outside of Asbury, MO for 8 yrs right on the Spring river.. Very good times fishing down in your neck of the woods.
Your area fisheries biologist is a friend of mine, hope those folks are good to you there!
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 10/26/18 09:18 PM

Originally Posted By: snrub
Welcome to the forum.

I'm in the opposite corner of Kansas and stocked SMB last December. I already have recruitment with lots of 4-6" YOY SMB.

Good luck and keep us informed on progress.

What size fish did you stock originally??
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 10/27/18 10:28 AM

I paid for some 6-9" fish and some 4-6" fish. I would say of the 6-9" fish I bought a lot of them tended toward 9" and in the 4-6" lot a lot of them tended towards the 4". There could have been some 10" or greater. Jerry Hartley said all the fish were from the same brood pond. The difference in size was the difference in how well the fish took to feed. I have found the same thing in my YOY SMB. The ones that are aggressive towards pellets and get on feed grow fast and the others not so much. When the water is clear enough I can see which ones are feeding and which ones are not.

So I would assume it was some of the largest fish that spawned the next spring. I have lots of 4-5" SMB now I can see and catch around the edges of my my RES/SMB pond. Or at least I could catch them back when the water was warmer. Now they mostly just look at or ignore my bait since the water has cooled and become exceptionally clear. I had so many I caught thirty or more and are growing them in another pond I have without large predators.

Here is a picture of one of the recruits that I transferred to my forage pond. . SMB 2018 recruit
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 11/28/18 09:49 PM

Ok, going to try my luck at posting pics.. Hope it's not too boring!
This pond is an experiment that we've been working on the idea of for a couple of years. I have 2 Biologist from KDWP watching my progress closely as redear and SMB in particular are not know to succeed in this area. Yellow perch, well, we have no data in our area either, so this is going to be fun! I'm in the very early stages with this and I'm sure there will be bumps along the way.
First pic is pond right after seal was finished..

2nd is pic of SMB at stocking (2")..

Next is SMB from net sample 85 days later.

Stocker RES..

Sample RES at 85 days..


Stocker Yellow perch..

85 days after..

Hope this works!
Posted by: canyoncreek

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 11/29/18 09:44 AM

That YP looks fabulous! Gaining weight and great color! I think YP are going to be a winner in your area. Please spread the word that this is a very worth while consideration for a fish that is easily pellet trained, fun for kids to catch, and awesome table fare!
Posted by: Bill Cody

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 11/29/18 10:43 AM

Thanks for the great report. Your fish are growing very nicely. Good job getting started. Next year's fishery report will add lots of good information for others learning from your fish stocking combination experiment. Return to this specific thread in STOCKING A NEW POND Ľ Types of Fish to Choose for future updates to document your pond's progress.
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 05/20/19 10:59 PM

Thought I would come back and add a few notes to this.
As my water temps are near 70, I've noticed activity has really picked up. Last week I noticed a small, light colored area that I thought was a 12-16" piece of concrete coming into view. The next afternoon I seen 2 more and came to the conclusion they were Redear Beds! I have 1 lone dish right beside a "TJ" smb nest structure that I believe is too big to be a RES so I think it's a smb.
As I have been feeding the last 3 weeks in the open pond I've noticed I have several of my feed trained YP showing up on a regular basis and the last 4-5 days they have brought a few guests, being some MUCH larger perch and a few smaller perch that were not part of my feed training. I've not seen a SMB take feed yet, nor a RES-and don't really expect to see RES but have seen where some folks see smb taking feed.
I seen my first fry of the summer FHM's about 5 days ago. I can take my fine mesh 3' net and run it for about 3-4' along the rocks and catch about (guessing here) several thousand FHM from fry to about an inch. I occasionally get a few small 1 to 1-1/2" YP in the fry net but never any of the 3-4" size.
I'm hoping to see some SMB fry but not sure my fish are sexually mature and somewhat expected them to spawn next year but we'll see.
My GSH are quite abundant and extremely high numbers of obviously gravid females-most seem to be in the 4-5-1/2" size range.
I find I'm still somewhat impatient but continue to tell myself anything good takes time to produce!
I've noticed a few patches of Sago pond weed starting to build and a very few cattails. Seems like what I believe to be eel grass is popping up in a spot or 2 so things are changing.
You guys with RES and SMB have any insight on when to expect to find YOY of both species I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Posted by: teehjaeh57

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 05/21/19 12:48 AM

Nice report Kenny. Your SMB should be bedding now or very soon...been a late year for us up here and my water is pretty stained due to runoff...not sure I'll be collecting many SMB fry this year.

You'll see male SMB bedding anywhere from 2-6' depths, and a week or so later notice schools of dark black tadpole looking fry with the same male close by trying to protect them somewhere near the bed location. These are not tadpoles, they are YOY SMB and very easy to net provided you have a fine mesh head.

Consider keeping on top of the cattails...they are a preferred forage item for 'skrats - I nuke every one I see as I already have rat issues. Cattails respond readily to glyphosate - I use the Schillig "glove of death" method to avoid product drift into the water. Glove and a little section of sponge and up the leaves you go. Get em now while they're growing, tubers are vulnerable to herbicides but won't be once they're mature....then you'll only kill the leaves.
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 07/11/19 12:22 AM

An update for this..

Posted by: RStringer

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 07/11/19 07:20 AM

Oh man Congrats on the progress. I'm know expert at all but those are looking good. Those suckers are growing pretty good.
Posted by: jludwig

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 07/11/19 08:44 AM

I am interested to follow this as I learn about species diversity. Growing up in Oklahoma, most ponds are some sort combination of BG, RES, LMB, and CC.
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 07/15/19 12:36 AM

A couple more add-ons..




Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 07/27/19 01:05 AM

Verified Gambusia present in relatively good numbers (never stocked any). No water source within 14 miles and no FHM stockings since August of last summer.
Posted by: Shorty

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 07/27/19 08:28 AM

Where did the BG come from? Over time I would be worried that your SMB won't be able to keep BG recruitment under control. Those RES are looking good!
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 07/27/19 02:48 PM

BG Males only stocked. No females present-so far..
Hopefully my single HBG doesn't throw me a curve with future generations..
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 07/27/19 02:58 PM

A bit of a surprise last night..

Posted by: nehunter

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 07/27/19 03:55 PM

So what kind of fish is that last one?
Posted by: teehjaeh57

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 07/27/19 10:52 PM

Tilapia!
Posted by: Bocomo

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 07/28/19 12:52 PM

Check out the bellies on those RES!
Posted by: roundy

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 07/28/19 05:44 PM

If big bellies are good, I should be reincarnated as a RES.
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/01/19 12:06 AM

8lbs of biomass removed..

Posted by: teehjaeh57

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/01/19 01:18 AM

I'm so lost...I thought your BOW was literally brand new and you've got BG, CC, and TP??? You've also already got some macrophytes growing [Sago].

So many questions: Why did you stock BG? What size were they to accurately determine gender? You know how many times I've made just one mistake the last several years and had to drain, seine and nuke and start over???? You're livin' on the edge crazy man!

When did you stock TP, and why? Are they keeping up with FA? This is news to me.

Can't believe you already have macrophytes established...typically this is year 2 or 3 in the Midwest. That's GREAT, but I'm dumbfounded!

What in the hell is an 8 lb CC doing in your brand new pond?

HBG?

I feel like I don't even know you anymore.

PS: Those RES are so AWESOME!!!!! Optimal Jr?

Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/01/19 01:30 AM

grin=TJ!!!
BG (30) were added this summer early at about 4"-all verified males..
Tilapia were stocked (40 4-6", 50 2-3") first week of June to help control FA or my suspicions of what was to come (and it did). Sago came on strong after adding some shoots about May 1.. 20-some hardy lilies started, some bull rushes, arrowhead and some real nice APW.
BTW, Tilapia are NOT keeping up.
Verified SMB recruitment about 2 weeks ago and the cats were put in (10) to control tiger salamander larval stage, I've removed 6 cats now. Drill a 1/16" hole through a piece of Optimal bass, thread line through, tie to #8 hook, chuck and wait.. :-))
P.S. Opti Jr, yes..
I put the cats in before any forage was stocked well over a year ago, Tigers will blow up in a ditch with water over night here. I had no clue the cats would be so hard to remove and no, the cats were not 8lbs when put in.. 3, maybe 3.5 so eating something but every one I've removed is full of algae, can't find even a bone in stomach contents.
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/11/19 05:11 PM

Update: After a couple of nights of soaking and saturating the ground, the big one came last nigh, algae clogged drain pipe and water breached dam. Don't know how much flow-through I had but I'd say all of it 3 times.
I now have a boat with a 6hp outboard on bottom somewhere with a solar panel mount and panel assembly with multiple other items in basin somewhere.
I'm sure by the looks of everything around pond, there can't be much for fish left. When weather clears up, I'll drain and assess it and make a decision.
22 years and never a flow event like this. It don't rain here like that, ever.
Posted by: NEDOC

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/11/19 06:07 PM

Ugh, that makes me want to puke. Iím sorry to hear that.
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/11/19 10:16 PM

I appreciate your Comment, NEDOC. To make matters worse, it has built again this eve and as of right now we have received another 2.75" in 55 minutes. Guessing my dam will be gone by morning.
Posted by: Dave Davidson1

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/12/19 04:25 AM

My condolences
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/12/19 07:44 AM

Originally Posted By: Snipe
Update: After a couple of nights of soaking and saturating the ground, the big one came last nigh, algae clogged drain pipe and water breached dam. Don't know how much flow-through I had but I'd say all of it 3 times.
I now have a boat with a 6hp outboard on bottom somewhere with a solar panel mount and panel assembly with multiple other items in basin somewhere.
I'm sure by the looks of everything around pond, there can't be much for fish left. When weather clears up, I'll drain and assess it and make a decision.
22 years and never a flow event like this. It don't rain here like that, ever.


That is horrible Snipe. So sorry to hear that.

There have been some other threads about dam breeches where a lot more fish stayed behind than people thought would. So cross your fingers, maybe quite a few of the larger fish stayed behind and did not go with the flow.
Posted by: NEDOC

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/12/19 07:51 AM

Originally Posted By: Snipe
I appreciate your Comment, NEDOC. To make matters worse, it has built again this eve and as of right now we have received another 2.75" in 55 minutes. Guessing my dam will be gone by morning.


Hoping for a positive update this morning.
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/12/19 08:00 AM

For anyone reading this thread this is an important reminder of three things.

1. Make sure your overflow pipe stays open, and
2. Make sure in the pond design there is plenty of freeboard to handle temporary over fill, and
3. Make sure in your pond design you have an emergency overflow that is either grassed or rip-rap to the point it will not wash out and is way, way, way larger and over capacity than you think you will ever need.
Posted by: Quarter Acre

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/12/19 08:08 AM

I hate to hear of your bad luck...I'm hoping the best for you!
Posted by: Augie

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/12/19 09:47 AM

That's the kind of thing that will make a grown man cry.

Really sorry to hear it.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/12/19 05:17 PM

A neighbor of mine had the spillway wash out on his seven acre pond, reducing it to about 5.5 acres with lots of shallows. There's not much he can do to fix it short of spending 100k. It has about 400 acres of watershed. It only lasted a few years.

So sorry about all the flooding. It was doing so well.
Posted by: FLX Muck Man

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/13/19 05:37 AM

That sucks, Snipe. I hope itís not as bad as you think.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/14/19 12:06 PM

Sorry to hear this Snipe! I hope everything can be worked out.
Posted by: teehjaeh57

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/14/19 01:27 PM

Kenny let's talk today/tonight. I'm here to help you assess the situation and suggest some strategy moving forward. Only bright spot is at least it's a new fishery...you know, didn't lose any 5# SMB.

I'm not convinced you lost a lot of fish...per Lusk, most fish swim against the current except GC. I'd be more focused on retrieving your boat, motor and aeration system. We can rebuild the fishery if it's even needed.
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/14/19 11:39 PM

Water is down about 4' now, I can just now start to see bow of boat.
I did get all 4 batts out, control panel and pump that "was" 7' above full pool level, pump and motor are now torn down, I'll see what I can save there. I can't believe the items that flushed around the dam.. Emergency spillway is totally exposed now and to my surprise-somehow-the grass seems to have held it together without cutting anything up..The one thing I did right was plant a waterway mix 2 years ahead of finishing the seal and filling pond, that might possibly have saved the dam. I feel blessed for that alone. I guess we'll never know for sure what went over and what stayed but I did watch 2 smb today in a shallow area banging FHM in a shallow grassy flat spot.
In my sediment ponds above the irony is the water is "clean"..as-in I can see bottom through the tall grass in about 15-16" water. Also seen a few Tilapia and another small smb in there, might have seen a RES too, could see the black opercular and dark tail.
If there is anything about this that I can smile about, it would be the massive mats of FA, HIGH UP ON THE BANK!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/14/19 11:58 PM

It's great to hear your dam held up!
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/15/19 12:06 AM

Yeah Bob, not what I was expecting to see.. The gent that built my dam is known for super high quality work and I think my efforts at grassing it early helped also.
Posted by: anthropic

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/15/19 12:39 AM

Glad your dam held up!

I've had two flooding events the last four years and neither was much fun. After 2016 flood caused lots of erosion, I had heavy rocks trucked in. Between the rocks and established grass, second event this spring was far less damaging.

Hope you will find what I did: Only the little guys like to go with the flow. Big fish, including panfish, are much more safety conscious than YOY. We had hundreds of BG stranded along emergency spillway, not a one larger than 3 or 4 inches.
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/15/19 08:53 AM

Glad to hear it turned out much better than you feared Snipe.
Posted by: RStringer

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/15/19 09:21 AM

Very good news. I hope it all works out for ya. Sounds like you got a man made reef at the bottom right now.
Posted by: NEDOC

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/15/19 11:05 AM

Sounds like things are all going to be better than anticipated. Great to hear snipe.
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/20/19 11:58 PM

Pumped the final 3' down the last couple of days and am back to normal pool. I have lovely coffee colored water from nutrients but it is clear coffee if that makes sense.
We got some work done where water flow removed some areas of earth, although fairly minor, I leveled, spread grass seed and put erosion blankets down while it's wet.
I have observed a few good SMB, a few yoy SMB, LOTS of RES YOY and a few adults. I'm not seeing the masses of FHM adults I was but large numbers of fry of all sizes. I have not seen a single YP yet but Cloverleaf traps will tell me what's up there.
We made a trek down stream today which in NW KS is wide open, flat pasture for the most part and I was able to spot and collect some specimens of several species (all high n dry btw). I found about 40 YOY SMB, 1 adult SMB, 3 BG, 1 RES adult and 2 5-6" YP.
We went nearly 5 miles until we came to a CRP field that had a sharp draw. The flow was very wide in this basin but slow so water was not "fast and furious". Not sure how much further measurable water went so what we found is probably incomplete but most of the fish I found were in about a half-mile stretch where it was really wide, like 250-300 yards wide. Amazing how fast she soaked in. Had hopes of finding a pool or 2 that may have supported life. Not sure that many fish left with water flow so maybe I have more left than I know??
I did find a dozen or so Tilapia UPSTREAM in my sediment pond so I know which way they wanted to go. When water level was down to a small area I was able to net and toss those back in to pond.
Life goes forward and fall net samples will hopefully give me a partial idea of where I go from here.
Posted by: FLX Muck Man

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/22/19 09:10 AM

Do you have any sense of if you got a bunch of sediment washed into the pond?
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/22/19 01:10 PM

Not so much sediment but water is tannic so my nutrient level is very high. Grass (Switch, western wheat) held and slowed the flow. Looks like flow through areas are clean of sediment coming in but water is going to be "hot" with phos, etc again for awhile.
Posted by: DrLuke

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/22/19 02:33 PM

Sure am glad to hear that your dam held up! Whew!

It has been a funky year for rainfall. Here in central Iowa, May got 13 inches (normal is 5), June got 9 ( normal is 4.5), July was typical (4) and August was dry....until 4 days ago, when we got 4 inches in one shot, and 2 more 48 hrs later. My pond had evaporated down as expected during the dry July and Aug weather, but she's topped up again now! I had the 'iced coffee' colored water for 2 months (May and June) and it's back to that again. Main positive from this colored water was the effect on my FA. My pond has the least FA we've seen in the past 4 years. We have kept using pond dye this summer, once the water cleared up and spot sprayed and raked.

I am hoping that you kept more of your mature fish than you know. I know electro surveys can be a bit pricey, but maybe it would be helpful in developing the management plan going forward? I am likely going to get one next spring, to see now my 2017 stockers are progressing.
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/22/19 02:39 PM

Originally Posted By: DrLuke
Sure am glad to hear that your dam held up! Whew!

It has been a funky year for rainfall. Here in central Iowa, May got 13 inches (normal is 5), June got 9 ( normal is 4.5), July was typical (4) and August was dry....until 4 days ago, when we got 4 inches in one shot, and 2 more 48 hrs later. My pond had evaporated down as expected during the dry July and Aug weather, but she's topped up again now! I had the 'iced coffee' colored water for 2 months (May and June) and it's back to that again. Main positive from this colored water was the effect on my FA. My pond has the least FA we've seen in the past 4 years. We have kept using pond dye this summer, once the water cleared up and spot sprayed and raked.

I am hoping that you kept more of your mature fish than you know. I know electro surveys can be a bit pricey, but maybe it would be helpful in developing the management plan going forward? I am likely going to get one next spring, to see now my 2017 stockers are progressing.


I work directly with KDWP so if I want to shock, I put the shocker boat on and just do it..:-))
Temps are still up at a point I don't like to handle fish if possible but when it gets down to upper 60's this is an option.
Our highs are forecasted in the mid 70's next week with lows into upper 40's so that may happen sooner than I thought.
Posted by: NEDOC

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/25/19 11:23 AM

Iíve been watching this last round of storms down there. Hoping a couple of those big rains slid east of you.
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/25/19 01:19 PM

We had another 1.5 2 nights ago but missed the big stuff.
Pond did come up about 6" but that's normal. I don't see much for rain in extended forecast but highs in the low 70's and low's down in the 40's forecasted so not sure how my tilapia will fair. I don't think I'm going to need to worry about FA again this year, water was 72 yesterday evening..
Posted by: RStringer

Re: New Pond in NW KS. - 08/25/19 04:01 PM

Kansas has taking a beating this year with all the massive rains. Hopefully you will have a good turn out and not have lost many. Good luck I hoping for a mild winter myself.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..) - 08/25/19 04:15 PM

The big rains missed us again today. Not a drop fell here. Low ponds. We did get enough small rains last week to re-green the hayfield and lawns that were browning. We have not had any rain with run-off since June 24. Some places relatively nearby have had over 6 inches in the past two weeks. The weather site I belong to acknowledged we could be in a rain shadow.
Posted by: RStringer

Re: New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..) - 08/25/19 04:26 PM

If it starts to sprinkle here they put up flash food warnings. The ground has been pretty soaked all summer. No where for the water to go. I have a small creek in my backyard. It normally is dry most of the year. It has had running water for months now.
Posted by: RStringer

Re: New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..) - 08/25/19 10:06 PM

This is the creek that for most of the year is dry. This year it has been from 3 inches to 4 feet deep and never been dry.
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..) - 10/02/19 10:35 PM

Had my first day of Fall sample 2019 today. Set Trap net last night and run 277 fish across measure board and scale today. Was interesting to see so many fish, almost too many for myself to handle.
Had some YP of all sizes present from about 3.5-14".. WR's ave about 98. High on smaller fish, a bit low on the 10"+ size.
Got a surprise of a 13-3/4" SMB that was 107% and several smaller.. SMB ave is well over 100% so looks good there.
Some real good Male BG averaging slightly above 100% WR and RES with some decent growth but the larger they are the lower the WR so not as many as I had hoped utilizing pellets.
Took 3 BCP out that were accidental stockings last year. They made it to 12-13" in that year and those minnow eating machines are in the freezer now. Got 1 Saugeye at 18-1/2" and above 110% WR. Lots of YOY RES, YP and SMB with 2 6" GSH and hundreds of crawdads.
WT 58 and falling, low of 34 forecasted for tonight.
I can see after 1 sample that my larger forage items are lacking, the larger the fish, the lower the WR with exception of SMB.
I've removed several hundred YOY YP and can tell I haven't dented the population but those guys are denting my FHM's. I believe I need to be more aggressive on removing mid-size perch as well. Part of this may be from the flood and loosing most of my vegetation.
6 nights to go so prelim here, just thinking out loud.
Posted by: roundy

Re: New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..) - 10/02/19 11:09 PM

What type of trap setup do you use?
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..) - 10/02/19 11:22 PM

Fyke nets roundy. I have a 4'X 5' alum frame Fyke with 30' lead net I really like for the small pond stuff, much easier to handle than our larger, steel-frame fykes.
Posted by: roundy

Re: New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..) - 10/03/19 01:06 AM

Those are some serious setups! When I was younger I run hoop nets and catfish baskets in the river. I always assumed you needed a bit of current for the hoop to work. Guess that is what the feeder wings are for. Thanks for the info.
Posted by: NEDOC

Re: New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..) - 10/03/19 09:17 AM

Wow, that's great info. This is going to be so informative for me to follow. Thanks for all of the work and time that allows us all to learn.

Interesting you had luck catching SMB in the fyke net. I've had my fyke out dozens of times and have yet to catch a SMB.
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..) - 10/03/19 09:25 PM

C, that's how it was for me last fall at my pond. We have similar results with SMB in large impoundments/Lakes. SMB seem to be pretty sly and in observations it's been noted how unique their behavior really is, smart fish.
I got a pretty decent mix of SMB today, #'s still ave. above 100 WR so I'm impressed with my Smallies overall.
YP is Mixed in WR's, I got a 14.5" today that figured out to 106 WR, yet most of my YP above 10" are 95-96 ave.
BG look good, RES aren't looking the best, ave WR is 92 after 80+ fish in 2 days. Something missing for them to do well, just not sure what.
I did notice something today after folding up nets after drying.. I decided to take my 3' fry net and buzz the shoreline. Lots of minners from fry to 3" but noticed most are shiners.. had to look "real hard" to find an actual FHM. Also found high numbers of RES from 1/2" up to 2".
I'll run the full 7 nights but I think I can plainly see a trend..
ps, ice on the top of a bucket this am...ooooooh!
WT 56
Posted by: NEDOC

Re: New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..) - 10/04/19 09:39 AM

You don't suppose the RES struggling is due to your tilapia reducing the FA do you? Seems RES always thrive in environments when there is an abundance of vegetation and/or FA.
Posted by: Bill Cody

Re: New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..) - 10/04/19 10:01 AM

I think the RES are struggling in Snipe's pond likely due to too much competition with BG and YP for natural food items. I assume his RES are not pellet trained and this means the adult RES have to survive on natural foods. As evolved, RES are best or well adapted to eat small mollusks and when these items are scarce the RES are not real competitive with other better adapted invertebrate predators.
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..) - 10/04/19 11:14 AM

I believe there is merit to both comments and it looks like the easiest fix is to remove all of the BG I can. I stocked only males but I've also lost nearly all of my vegetation due to the flood, which with it went billions of aquatic invertebrates and I have no foodmart left.
I'm planning to remove about 75 6-7" YP and all of the BG I net, here on out. It's a large move but one I feel is needed due to the lack of supporting vegetation, hence other more abundant foods no longer available.
Posted by: NEDOC

Re: New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..) - 10/04/19 11:40 AM

You don't think the vegetation will return in short order? I was presuming most of that would return next year, but have no idea.

BTW, I love the single sex BG plan. That's gonna be fun to watch.
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..) - 10/04/19 03:34 PM

Flood was Aug 10th I think.. I had hoped some veg would show back up but never has. I'm sure that has to make an impact on forage base, nowhere to hide, nothing left to reproduce FHM-wise. I did get some fry yesterday that was 1/4-5/16" I brought home to try and identify-I can't for sure but I believe they are Shiners and am guessing a week or less old, so could be FHM-possibly.
Day 3 in the bag.. Pretty much the same as 1-2 but 75% of the fish today were YP-166 to be exact with 1 oddball RESXBG-but 8.5".
Using 3 tanks for this, 1 for electrolytes, 1 for salt dip and 1 with fresh water before return to pond. This is a 2-man operation with this many fish, gotta find some help!
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..) - 10/04/19 03:54 PM

Thinking out loud here, one of the things I was looking forward to this sample season was collecting some recruits from the Tilapia. I've caught 3-4 between 2-3" and 21 about 1/2" (1/2" in fry net). Not seeing what I thought I would there. I was going to hold some over winter inside but maybe they've been preyed upon heavily??
Posted by: NEDOC

Re: New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..) - 10/04/19 06:55 PM

Interesting on the tilapia. Whatís your water temp? Maybe tilapia are fyke net savvy?
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..) - 10/04/19 07:24 PM

I think they are fairly savvy..I've watched them walk with a pectoral fin on their side in an inch of water to get to an algae patch.
WT 54.
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..) - 10/04/19 09:23 PM

Bill, is it possible to have a lower number of male only BG with RES and establish more normal growth rates with a slightly more aggressive culling of YP once my vegetation reestablishes?
Or would it be smart to pull all BG possible, continue the plan to cull quite a few 5-7 YP and see how that turns out-if anything changes with RES.
WWBCD?
Posted by: teehjaeh57

Re: New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..) - 10/05/19 01:42 AM

Kenny I'd harvest every single BG you can manage, weather permitting, all year long. Seining, trapping, angling...either than or drain, seine, remove your desirable species, lime nuke and refill. Provided you have a way to fill the pond, you'd really only need to move your fish for a couple weeks.
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..) - 10/05/19 03:20 AM

I stocked about 70 male only BG early this summer so I'd think I would stand a chance of removing most. I have already removed 31 in the last 2 days. I pulled 43 5-7" YP today as well.
I'll see how many BG I get in the next 4 days and report.
Posted by: Snipe

Re: New Pond in NW KS. (The end of..) - 10/14/19 11:00 PM

A not-so-quick report of my fall net samples..
Using 1 trap net with 7 sets at the same locations as last year, here's my numbers. Please keep in mind I have a certain percentage of recapture but as with all sampling this normally provides a better view over-all.
I've converted back to nearest inch for clarity as it makes more sense to most but actual samples are mm and grams.
To start with SMB.
135 fish Total with confirmed recruitment., ave. WR 145.02% Fish above 10" ave. 109% WR.
Largest SMB 14.25", 111% WR.

YP-397 fish total with confirmed recruitment., ave. WR 104.35% Fish above 10" ave. 100.23% WR.
Largest YP 15-1/16", 98% WR. Noted YP at 248.4mm (9.78") and above start to trend to a lower WR- Seems to be something lacking for continued maximum growth but note SMB appear to have ample forage.

RES-299 fish total with confirmed recruitment. ave. WR 98.92%
Largest RES 7.75", 93.4% WR. Fish smaller than 6" are the highest WR and trends downward starting above 6.25" consistently.
Possible loss of most vegetation and associated aquatic life during flood may have impacted this figure.

BG-91 fish total, no recruitment noted at this time, no females noted.
ave. WR 107.44%, Largest BG 7-1/16", 104.1% WR.
68 BG removed, All below 150mm (6" roughly).

Additional fish-
3 SAE, 108.3% WR, Largest 18.45", 109.2% WR.
3 BCP, 105.1% WR, Largest 13-1/16" 102% WR. (all removed).
7 HBG, RESXBG and 1 BGXGSF, All above 5" & Removed, no data taken.
1 CC, 26.5" Removed.
27 GSH, ave 5.75". Very obvious GSH recruitment in very large numbers from 1" up to 2.75".
Not 1 single FHM confirmed in fry nets.
Numerous sunfish not identifiable from 3/8" to 1.25" sampled.
Possible BGXRES or straight RES. Plan to monitor over time.

To pull this data all together, on the YP I'm going to need some input from the YP experts as it would appear I'm loosing growth nearing the 10" mark indicating required forage size is low, yet SMB are consistent through the same range and well above std weight.

#2, RES are not thriving here and with my flood this summer and being the first full year, I have nothing to compare to and can only speculate on the loss of vegetation and how it may have affected them. The loss of vegetation may have also exposed forage items and possibly caused the high WR's for SMB and I plan to monitor that.
Naiads, mostly paddle tail, were present as were large numbers of aquatic worm vessels before filamentous algae was flushed out from flood.