I think for a pond with the dominant species being CC, the best forage would be pellets, followed by crawfish, FHM, and small BG. I have caught wild 20 inch CC on limb lines on 3 to 3.5 inch BG. CC above a pound or so will turn over rocks and sticks looking for crawfish.
I have FHM, RES, YP, SMB, and GSH in one pond and LMB, BG, RES, and FHM in the other pond. The LMB pond had CC but they seem to be all gone (never saw reproduction). The new CC pond will include breeding sites. I was hoping for another fishing opportunity using crappie as forage, especially since I have a neighbor who likes pan fish as is pretty good at catching them. I was hoping large CC might be able to eat Crappie if they became stunted, which I think is the management issue in a small pond.
I wonder if PS would be a good match with CC as a predator. They are not as fecund as BG but more than RES. IMO they should be less likely to over populate than either BCP or BG with CC as predator. They stay smaller longer so should be a good fit for the CC mouth gap. PS do get big enough to fillet and taste great. IMO a CC and PS pond might produce some trophy PS.
I have found that the MO Conservation Dept differs on many aspects of pond management to what I find experienced PB experts talking about. Don't get me wrong, I think Missouri has one of the best, if not "the best", conservation departments in the US. My suspicion is that the MOCODept caters to the "stock it and leave it" group much more than the mild pond experimentalist, let alone the extremist.
I fished a stocked, supplement pellet fed, and managed CC pond once that had 6 to 10 pound CC. This pond had numerous LMB, but not a one was caught larger than 12 inches or so. I believe they were overpopulated and stunted. The 5 CC that I caught that morning were all caught using large Mepps spinners. These fish were accustomed to eating LMB as forage to fill out their diet.
With that said, Crappie could work, but their deep body may not be as advantageous as the LMB to be eaten by the CC. I would think that you would have to grow the CC out to at least a pound or two on minnows before introducing the Crappie and then stock larger crappie to spawn the forage. Growing the CC on minnows would get them used to chasing down there food, once the minnows were taken away, the crappie YOY would be the next best thing.
I don't have any experience with the PS to speak of. I would think, however, that stocking the PS at the same time as the CC that the balance would have a better chance of stabilizing with larger PS to produce YOY as the CC grew to the size it would take to eat the PS YOY and not your breeding stock. The numbers of CC might have to be reduced to accommodate the lower reproduction rates of the PS (I don't know). Merely speculation on my part, but I think the PS/CC plan has some merit. I do believe that minnows should be a major part of the initial plan to get the CC warmed up to the idea of working for their dinner. More live food than pellets.
Hopefully someone can put me in my place if need be!
My concern is whether the CC can control the PS numbers. I can't find any info where someone has tried the CC/PS combo before. On the upside... I would think that if the PS start to overpopulate, adding a few LMB should fix the problem pretty quick.
I think that I would need to add PS first just because I think I could only source them in small numbers. After they spawn, I could add FHM as food. Finally I could add CC at a low density. Adding HSB might be an option for a non-reproducing predator if the PS get out of hand. I like the idea of PS as a novel fish. Of course, I need to actually build this pond, which I can hopefully do during a couple weeks of vacation with the JD550 and some luck on the weather.
I have a good bit of experience with CC. BG will over populate and be stunted and you will find a mass abundance of little BG needing to be removed. I seine small BG out of overstock CC ponds and transport them to LMB heavy ponds. FHM will pretty much disappear. Gams tend to survive here in the South as they will stay close to cover (however that means they also provide less food value since they cant be caught very well). It really seems that way to me about any fish that does not use the open water. I have noticed when I mix the RES in with high volume CC I tend to see very few small RES. In my 3ac BCP pond (BCP, CC, RES, CNBG, Gams) with 1500 CC as the primary predator I have only caught original stocker BCP & RES. I (The problem is I do not know if the CC are controlling the BCP or have they just not bred for the last 4 years). The Gams are still there fewer in number. CC will eat small LMB (I have even watched the cats kill LMB being bucket stocked) and small CC not to mention frogs, snakes and anything that will hit or die in the water that is easy for them to get to. The more the CC the more aggressive the behavior for food (even with supplemental feed). I will see if I can get a chance to shoot you some video this weekend of what overstock aggressive CC will do.
BTW I watched the CC eat about 20 Peking duck eggs this last weekend. I just laid them in about 6" of water and thru out a little food to call the CC in. When they arrived I busted 2 eggs and watched the feeding frenzy start. It took them about 5 minutes to get all the eggs broke and eaten (including shells) after the feed was gone.
The CC that I had in my big pond behaved like sharks. They never bred and died out. I will not add them back to this older pond, but will leave LMB as the top predator. I think that the new pond will be the CC pond.
I wonder if the CC are disrupting the nesting of the other fish by rooting around in the nest where the fish lay eggs? If the RES are not big enough to run them off, that may be the reason for low recruitment. CC eating the eggs in the nests.
I think that I would need to add PS first just because I think I could only source them in small numbers. After they spawn, I could add FHM as food. Finally I could add CC at a low density. Adding HSB might be an option for a non-reproducing predator if the PS get out of hand. I like the idea of PS as a novel fish. Of course, I need to actually build this pond, which I can hopefully do during a couple weeks of vacation with the JD550 and some luck on the weather.
I really like the HSB idea as a backup if the PS need additional control.
FWIW Keystone Hatcheries has PS but it would be about a 3+ hour drive each way for you. If interested, you can find their contact info in the Pond Boss Resource Guide.
The CC that I had in my big pond behaved like sharks. They never bred and died out. I will not add them back to this older pond, but will leave LMB as the top predator. I think that the new pond will be the CC pond.
I've had CC recruitment in my main pond the last two years, in low numbers. But my LMB recruitment is absent. So the low LMB pressure may be why some survived. I have ledges, some cavity's, stumps and old tires so I think they were able to find nesting sites.
I wonder if the CC are disrupting the nesting of the other fish by rooting around in the nest where the fish lay eggs? If the RES are not big enough to run them off, that may be the reason for low recruitment. CC eating the eggs in the nests.
Size of RES are not an issue as we have caught some close to 2#. I do think the CC group up and raid the nest during spawning. I also wondered if the CC eat a lot of the feed that RES would normally eat. Anyway I never seem to have had much recruitment of RES when combined with higher stocking volume of CC.
I've had CC recruitment in my main pond the last two years, in low numbers. But my LMB recruitment is absent. So the low LMB pressure may be why some survived. I have ledges, some cavity's, stumps and old tires so I think they were able to find nesting sites.
I watched CC eat LMB like candy. I can see I really need to make some videos and upload for people to see what I have observed. Maybe I can get time to get a frenzy going this weekend and get a few videos. You will be surprised at how close the shark comment is to the truth during a frenzy.
I have made the comment before here on PBF that the CC way of swimming reminds me of sharks. We see lots of sharks in open water while diving in the Bahamas. Mostly reef sharks but occasionally others.
The first year I fished my main pond one of my favorite baits was a curly tail jig cast and retrieve. I caught a number of CC along with the BG and LMB with that simple small lure. That told me the CC would strike at moving targets and most likely any small fish that got close enough.
My wife fishes specifically for CC (mostly so she can put down the rod and do her knitting) whereas I fish mostly for BG with jigs. I'll catch as many CC as she does.
I have a good bit of experience with CC. BG will over populate and be stunted and you will find a mass abundance of little BG needing to be removed. I seine small BG out of overstock CC ponds and transport them to LMB heavy ponds. FHM will pretty much disappear. Gams tend to survive here in the South as they will stay close to cover (however that means they also provide less food value since they cant be caught very well). It really seems that way to me about any fish that does not use the open water. I have noticed when I mix the RES in with high volume CC I tend to see very few small RES. In my 3ac BCP pond (BCP, CC, RES, CNBG, Gams) with 1500 CC as the primary predator I have only caught original stocker BCP & RES. I (The problem is I do not know if the CC are controlling the BCP or have they just not bred for the last 4 years). The Gams are still there fewer in number. CC will eat small LMB (I have even watched the cats kill LMB being bucket stocked) and small CC not to mention frogs, snakes and anything that will hit or die in the water that is easy for them to get to. The more the CC the more aggressive the behavior for food (even with supplemental feed). I will see if I can get a chance to shoot you some video this weekend of what overstock aggressive CC will do.
BTW I watched the CC eat about 20 Peking duck eggs this last weekend. I just laid them in about 6" of water and thru out a little food to call the CC in. When they arrived I busted 2 eggs and watched the feeding frenzy start. It took them about 5 minutes to get all the eggs broke and eaten (including shells) after the feed was gone.
FWIW Keystone Hatcheries has PS but it would be about a 3+ hour drive each way for you. If interested, you can find their contact info in the Pond Boss Resource Guide. [/quote]
I am in no way advising anyone how to stock their pond. But over my life time, mainly bass fishing lakes and a few small ponds (I have one 1/2 acre) never have I seen a pond with so many big fat bass at being only 2 1/2 to 3 acre pond. Owner had it built 20 yrs ago. My son bought a house about 1/8th mile from pond and the pond owner and him have become good friends and he told my son he can fish it anytime and bring your Dad if you want(Great Guy). He said it was 12ft deep at dam when built, but gets farm field run-off so maybe 10ft deep now at Dam and 2-3 ft at opposite end. It was built right so you can fish all the way around it easy (no trees) no need for boat just a very nice walk around pond after work for 1hour of fishing. The owner said they stock it with bass, bluegill,crappie channels, even put in blue cats. My son walks it about every evening with a spinner bait and a jig with swim bait trailer jig and carries a scale for pictures before releasing. Almost every night he catches bass weight from 3lbs up in almost 6lb range (lots in the 5lb range) fat as can be. Owner ask him to throw any bluegill and crappie up on bank because they are stunted. He said way to many small crappie. My son even catches the channels on spinner baits. Owner even put a tree in it when it was built for crappie. He does no restocking of this pond since he does not live by it. just dyes it this time of year. He allows the kids around to swim in it from the dock (just a nice guy)no partying allowed for safety. Sorry for long story but just hard to find a pond that produces this size bass that always seem to want to hit a lure. He loses a lot of big ones that he sees jump and spit lure out. My thoughts on this pond is the crappie spawn first and create the forage for the bass at stunted size. Pond is amazing for 20 years old and little management on fish. I'll keep updates on catch rates as the spawn gets over and it gets warmer. Son has lived there almost a year now and top water is great in summer. Just thinking about what beastman said in another post about ending up with 100s even 1000s of stunted crappie (maybe good forage) something is being done right for bass fishing. Sorry again about this long post but this pond is a bass fisherman paridise.
It will be a few weeks for I shoot some feed videos. The Mrs shot this Saturday so I can show you what overstocked CC with BG looks like. BTW this is the pond the Handicapped / Disadvantaged will be fishing in May. The CC show up like this when you walk up.
That is the theory with the feed John. Feed them plenty and they will chase pellets instead of forage fish.
I have to believe the CC do most of their fish catching at night when the BG are mostly asleep. I have walked the pond edge at night and very carefully put my hand in the water and scooped up a small BG in my palm while it was sleeping before it noticed what was going on. That told me that a CC that tends to be more nocturnal could catch BG at night.
I agree, they feed mostly at night and just slide in nice and easy but....I have also caught CC in the middle of the day on a fast retrieve crank bait. IME they can put on the speed when they want to.