I live between KC and Columbia just south of I-70 in Hardiness Zone 6 and I will be stocking FHM as soon as my small pond fills up this year. I have read all kinds of posts that talk about a lot of forage for different areas of the US, but I have not found many options for Missouri other than FHM and crawdads. The FHM's are not hard to source near by, but all they carry are the FHM. Am I missing something?

Are FHM all the forage fish I should consider?

Crawdads may be a hard source other than bucket stocking from my creek. Missouri has apparently outlawed all bait crawdads except the virile (or northern) crayfish (Orconectes virilis), and I have not found a source for crawdads yet.

Any advice so I can be prepared if and when any rain comes?

I have about a foot or so of water right now and will stock BG/LMB/Res or HBG/HSB/RES/CC? next year.

What other fish are you going to stock? FHM multiply quickly and are a good starting point but they will likely disappear completely once predators are introduced to the pond. If you will have LMB, BG will be the best source for sustained forage. Shiners are also a good option for some folks. Others more experienced will comment soon. Good luck.

Could consider golden shiners once your LMB are big enough to keep them in check.

Besides GS,perhaps TFS if you can ensure no GSD in the stocking? Defiantly don't want any GSD. I know of several strip pits doing well with TFS but dunno about a smaller pond.

What mile marker are you near? Relatives have some nice farm ponds near MM 55 - two of which are doing well with WCP contrary to general recommendations - stocked from overflows from neighbors.

Fishmap.org is a cool tool to use to determine what species are native to your watershed. From that you can research which ones are best suited to your pond conditions. The guys at Jonah's aquarium sell a large variety of fish species that could be useful options for a less common forage species.

Noel,

I salute you for thinking about forage diversity now instead of after you start stocking even the BG. As Kartracer states, I would check out what are native to your area and then pick a couple of species that you can source. The less commercialized fish cost more to stock but, if you don't have any predation, you don't need that many. For example, you can stock as few as 100 if you give them time to reproduce. Spotfin (SFS) or spottail shiners are both good choices and you can get them delivered from Mark at Jonah's Aquarium (You have to e-mail Mark to get quantity pricing). Don't forget to research each species before you stock them to understand their habitat needs for a population to thrive. For example, SFS are crevice spawners so you would need to provide some areas like rip rap with crevices for them to spawn. Rip rap will also be great habitat for your crawfish.

Good Luck and please report back on what you decided to do.

Bill D.

I certainly have not exhausted my searches for forage, but so far all I can find are FHM which is OK. FHM should do the job and maybe bucket stocking crawdads a few at a time would be best as the pond will have little vegetation. This begs the question, and starts me thinking about plant life...What plants to stock this year? More research needed!

Red - I am closest to mile marker 79 and my neighbor has crappie, not sure of the type, but they are mostly stunted. They do act as forage for his bigger LMB however.

Thanks Kartracer for the fishmap websites. It looks like a great place to base some research on!

My local bait shop sells what they call an Arkansas Jumper, but a quick web search did not yield any info. Anyone heard of this minnow?

Bill - Thanks for participating, I will look up those forage fish and see what's common for my area and if my pond habitat and structure is adequate. It looks like Jonah's has a great selection.

I suppose it's almost time to start contemplating feeding the little guys...

There's an older thread about what was called an Arkansas Jumper here. Some kind of worm though.

Alright Omaha, I think either the bait shop girl doesn't know her worms from her minnows or I can't ask "What kind are your minnows?" without tongue tying my words. I'll call the shop again.

It's funny what you can find by mistake. I called the bait shop and the gal insisted that the minnows are called Arkansas Jumpers. OK, I believer her. maybe. She did however offer the phone number to the fishery which is only 30 minutes away to ask them what the minnows are really called. They are Golden Shiners, but they also carry the FHM in both the plain and Rosy. Just so happens that they manage the crawdads too, but he seemed a little skeptical as his crawdad ponds have been attacked by river otters, so we'll see what comes of that.

I don't think the GSH fit my pond very well. According to the fishery owner, they do not spawn as easily as the FHM and require some grassy areas in the water, of which I don not have (yet). Not to mention he said they can get over 7 inches long.

At any rate I wanted to give a link to the bait fishery. I spoke with the owner and he was very pleasant to talk to and was more than willing to share his expertise when it comes to spawning structures, pond size versus stocking plan, transport of the fish, etc.

Missouri Goldfish Hatchery, Inc.

http://welpmansprings.weebly.com/missouri-goldfish-hatchery.html

I have also received a letter response from a biologist at Missouri Department of Conservation regarding my crawdad research. I'll quote bits of the email because I thought it very interesting and helpful...

"You will need to make sure that your pond has cover for the crayfish to ensure their survival after the fish are added. Good cover would either be established vegetation or rip rap/chunk rock that will provide refuge for young crayfish to hide. For about a 1-acre pond you will want 2-3 dozen adult crayfish. You’ll want to distribute them around the edge of you pond.

If you purchase crayfish now, you may be able to pick up some pregnant females. If this is the case you will need to handle them carefully as to not knock the eggs off. If you aren’t able to get any pregnant crayfish, you may want to wait to stock your fish after they breed next year. They mate in the fall, and the young aren’t free living until June. Allowing them to successfully reproduce before adding fish will allow them to become established.

When you purchase your crayfish, It is also recommended that you keep your paperwork on file should any questions arise down the road."

With that quoted, It does not seem to fit my BIG plan of stocking game fish next spring. It is unlikely that I will be able to stock crawdads AND get a spawn out of them before this time next year. So I'll ask MoCoDept how many I should stock that would represent a well established population and go from there. The bait fishery sells them for about $45 for about 1000 craydads. That's a lot of Virile (“Northern”) crayfish (Orconectes virilis)! But is it enough to represent a good population for a 1/4 acre pond?

I just need some rains.

Beware the rogue fish among your FHM -- hand sort them when adding to a 'clean' pond.

I bought a batch of FHM from Anderson Minnows in AR and they arrived in good shape. I used some for bait and gave the rest to a neighbor who stocked his forage pond with them. He has so many now they clog the cattle waterer below the dam!

I should add that if you don't have predator fish yet, it's likely the crawdads will show up on their own. That also happened in my neighbor's forage pond. The key is making sure they survive the introduction of bass. That's where habitat comes in. Ask Bill Cody, but he has said before that you need rip rap, and lots of it.

Why fool around with anything other than Bluegill? Seems like the hatcheries in your area would have the native northern strain acclimated to your neck of the woods. Our place is virtually straight due east of you in west central Illinois. The fisheries biologists here all recommend BG as the foundation and really the only thing you need if you can manage them properly (they are low maintenance).

We also have golden shiners at our place but we have found them tougher to manage. Their population swings up and down way more than the BG population. We needed "no brainer" forage at our place and BG have met that need very well. They spawn 2 or 3 times each year in our area. Maybe get the BG foundation going and well established and then experiment with another forage choice. Just my pondmeister in training 2 cents. BM61.

BM61 - My goals are to produce a good BG pond with LMB as predator OR HBG and HSB (both with RES). I haven't made up my mind yet. My newbie thoughts are to establish some small sized forage (minnows and crawdads, frogs will be there on there own) for the stocking of the game fish next year. Maybe I can get the game fish in sizes that are ready to eat the forage buffet or if I get fingerlings, the forage will have another year to multiply and grow. It feels right, how does it sound?

FWIW I'm a big fan of diversity in the forage base. While BG are good forage, I see other opportunities to utilize the pond resources to convert nutrients to protein for you fish. For example, crayfish and Tilapia (where legal)will happily eat FA and convert it to high protein snacks or.....you can drop some bucks on Cutrine and fight the FA and then drop some bucks on additional forage for your fish like trout. I guess my point is look for ways to use the resources in your pond to your advantage instead of fighting them. Please don't get me wrong, adding additional forage is great, I'm just saying utilize the resources you already have as much as possible first.

Right now, I'd be spending more time thinking about the plants for your pond than the fish. The pond is low and this is a good time of year to put them in. I think getting the right plants established can be trickier and more difficult than the fish. Also, if you have a foot or more of water in the pond and you're not worried about it going dry before it fills, I think you could start adding your forage fish now. When I built my new pond, I added all the fish species I wanted as soon as I could get them, and that was while the pond was still filling, and that worked out well. Maybe I was just lucky. What I didn't think about and never got established were plants.

Turtlemtn, Plants are definitely on my mind, but I am too busy picking up rocks and trying to get the carnage seeded with grass before it's too late and I have to stretch out miles of garden hoses to water. I have estimated that I have picked up 4 tons of rock and still have another to go. I may be one of the only rock farmers in the area.

I have gotten a crawdad response from the MO Cons Dept...

Noel – I talked with the crayfish person. He said for the size of your pond you wouldn’t need 1,000, that you’d only need 2-3 dozen of the adults. If you stock too many they will self-regulate – they eat each other if too many. His recommendation was to save your money and not buy as many. Stocking too many won’t hurt anything, just note that some will wander off and other’s will be eaten until they get to a good number. So, you don’t need that many, but won’t hurt if you stock that many."

They mention 1,000 because I said my supplier sells them for $45 per 1,000. I don't know what the right stocking numbers should be and a few dozen sounds weak to me especially if they cannot get a spawn in before the fish are stocked next spring.

I certainly do not want to overstock the crawdads or any plant efforts I can pull off may be in jeopardy of being eaten by the NCF (northern crayfish).

Any comments on the numbers of crawdads to stock knowing that a spawn will not happen before fish are stocked?

AND, any advice on vegetation that won't get eaten by the NCF.

If I only need a few dozen NCF, I can over stock the plants to compenstate, but if larger numbers are needed I may have to forego the NCF to get my plants established. Why do I feel like I'm on a roller coaster?

Q-A :

Do NCF prefer dead plant matter over live/green plants? In other words could you occasionally toss in some old hay or grass clippings to help keep them off your desirable plants?

MDC does have a lot of warnings on stocking crayfish - they are OK with NCF?

Red

I believe crawdads will eat anything. They would prefer live caught fish, insects, or live plants, but will settle for the dead as a second option.

The ONLY crayfish allowed in Mo is the northern (Orconectes virilis).

***EDIT***The only crayfish allowed to be sold in Missouri is the northern NOT the only one allowed in Missouri. I would suspect trouble if you got caught using something else for bait.****

My ~60 year old pond was only two foot deep when I purchased the place (filled in with muck) and had absolutely NO plant life. I thought the thing was contaminated. But, you could throw out a trap and catch many many small crawdads in an hour, hundreds in a day so long as you upped the bait occasionally. This explained the absence of vegetation as water quality checks proved the pond in good order with the exception of slightly basic water. I bucket stocked some creek fish and with a year or so the crawdads could not be caught, but you could get plenty of GSF. My first lesson in the GSF. They wiped out the crawdads and some vegetation started to show up. Mostly FA. Once the pond was drained it became evident that a dozen GSF can produce about 1,000 in two summers Anyhow, I digress! It's what I do.

Well you have talked me out of stocking crayfish! At least until the pond is well established.

I'm a GSF hater too. Just found last weekend an old pond on my place has them. I am getting my PVC pipe/fitting shopping list together to set up a siphon now, and looking for hydrated lime!

Red...I may be talking myself out of it too! And, I actually enjoy catching/eating the GSF, just in someone else's pond or creek.

The much maligned GSF sounds like a great option for a aquaculture project with a unstoppable, hardy, good tasting product to deliver to fish markets?

1/4acre, can you identify the crayfish you were catching in traps? i find it interesting that a state would say that ONLY ONE kind of crayfish is allowed in our state, when there may be several varieties already in your pond or local ponds that could easily find their way in. It seems a policy to keep only one kind of crayfish as the only species in a state would be a bit of a childish goal.

Canyon, I did not pay enough attention to the crawdads I caught, but as much as my memory will serve and what I have now read about them, I believe they where the northerns. No big deal now - the pond is void of any crawdads (for the moment) due to its renovation.

AND, I misspoke. Above post edited. It would be better said that Mo only allows the northern to be sold and/or used as bait. Missouri actually has over 35 species of crawfish, seven of which are only found in Missouri.

There...I've exhausted my knowledge of crayfish!

I will ID the ones in my creek and possibly transfer them a few at a time for something to do with the nephews.

Canyon - our conservation dept says we have a problem with invasive species of crayfish thus they don't want more invaders:

https://huntfish.mdc.mo.gov/fishing/protect-missouri-fishing/dont-spread-crayfish

Our own native species can become invasive in areas they shouldn't be.

How many FHM need to go into my "clean pond"??? I will be going to the fishery to buy the FHM's next week. My plan is to give them the season to multiply while I try to establish the vegetation before adding any purchased crawdads. My pond has 7 feet of muddy water with 3 feet to go. My watershed is excessive (20 to 25 acres for my 1/4 acre pond) and I have 10 to 20 pallets to install for laying eggs on. I plan to stock the game fish next spring, size undetermined. BG/LMB or HBG/HSB or...I'll figure that out later.

SO...how many minnows to buy? I have read as few as a dozen or so from a petshop to 5 pounds. My fisher sell about 1000 count, about 3-1/2 pounds for $25. The money is not an issue, I just don't want to overdo it.

And, Would feeding be recommended?

IMO 1000 will be plenty for a 1/4 acre with no predators. Give them some appropriate spawning habitat and you will be walking across the pond on their backs by the end of the summer. I didn't feed mine but IMO throwing a few crushed up grain based pellets will make them happy.

I'd love to see any Missouri strip pits with Threadfin Shad doing well....I've never seen any that survive our winters. Those ponds with WCP may have afew slabs, but I can virtually guarantee a LOT of biomass is consumed with 1000's of 1-3" stunted WCP also.

I grew up in Boonville and lived just off MM 87.

A few species you can add are Yellow Perch, Gambusia, Golden Shiners, Ozark Log Perch (from streams), Spotfin shiners and Lake Chub Suckers, if you can find some....If you create the habitat, crayfish from your nearby creek will likely stock themselves.

"if you create the habitat, crayfish from your nearby creek will likely stock themselves."

I found this little beauty crawling around my silt trap after one of those heavy rains we had recently.



It's a Northern Crayfish and like you said I never stocked any. The gully I dammed for the pond doesn't even have any permanent water so it's even more puzzling how he got here. There is another pond about 300 yards away on the neighbor's. Maybe he came from there.

I did net out a couple of 1" baby crayfish a couple of years ago too. Go figure.

Thanks Bill, I'll be putting in 1000 FHM's next week while bucket stocking the crawdads as I do not want many in the pond to hinder the vegetation efforts of this year.

Rainman, I will look into the variety you have suggested as the year goes on, maybe I'll get out for some local creek hiking and take a seine. I have created some rocky habitat along the dam, I hope it is sufficient, I have placed rocks along the better part of the 100 foot dam, 4 to 5 feet wide with piles that extend down to the anchored Osage root wads at the 4 to 6 foot depths (not to mention the pond has not filled up to the rocks yet)...



Jimmi, Those crawdads can be interesting creatures. I have witnessed them migrating during heavy rains (not flooding) where they are all over the yard and I've had to remove several from the shop as they don't seem to have very good direction and end up crawling through the open garage doors.