I have a relatively shallow half acre pond in Wisconsin. It has heavy cover and the average depth is 5-6 feet. The only thing in it are some sticklebacks and #25 of FHM and i plan to stock in spring. The main forage will be BG and i plan on adding a small amount of YP. My question is if i get LMB what other predator can i put in without disrupting the balance. HSB might work but i don't want to constantly restock. CC would work but there definitely is spawning habitat and i don't want them making the water brown. I would love WE but the water fluctuates a lot with air temps so i don't think they would work and the same with SMB along with the fact that i don't have any rock. Any ideas?

don't forget the often maligned, and often under-appreciated pickerel!

NP might be an option that would help control the LMB. I don't know whether NP reproduce in that size BOW or not. If they will, they might not be a good idea.

FWIW I have also read several times that trying to maintain a YP population can be difficult with LMB in the pond.

I don't think a half acre pond can support a pike but i would love that except i am a musky fishermen so pike are kind off like gobies to me. To clarify, good idea but I'd prefer musky but if pike can live in half an acre and musky can't I'd love to put 1 or 2 in.

You could always try a TM then. Get your muskie and NP both in the same fish!

It would seem like the requirements for NP and muskie would be very similar. If one would do well, so would the other. It's likely that all States have restrictions on which fish can be stocked, so it would probably be a good idea to check with the State before stocking pickerel. But if chain pickerel are legal, they might be ideal for a pond like that, unless you also plant LMB. From what I've read, LMB will eventually eliminate all the CP. And there is also the problem of obtaining CP. I don't believe they're native to WI, and I don't know of any hatcheries that raise them. If the pond is spring fed, it might be too cold for LMB.

The pond definitely gets warm in summer turtlemtn so LMB will be fine.

I love the idea of NP TM or musky but i thought they would hurt the balance? I know i have a lot of cover but the pond as i said before isn't over 8 feet deep and it's only half an acre and i thought that was too small for any larger esox? If it would work to just put one in I'd love it!

I assume you are looking for a second predator that you can have significant enough numbers to catch and occasionally harvest so that leaves TM, NP and Muskie out anyway. You have ruled out WE (they would not reproduce anyway), SMB(not noted to do well with LMB anyway), CC and HSB. I am drawing a blank on what would work for you. Hopefully, one of the other guys knows of a reproducing predator that fits your criteria.

Good Luck,

Bill D.

Ya that's the gist. All of the predators listed have some problem that makes them unreasonable. I need some perfect predator that i don't know about.

My dad bought a place in southern WI with a pond that wasn't over a ¼ ac, if that, and about 9' deep near one end. Most of the pond was shallow, maybe 3 or 4 ft. It had northerns in it. A couple were surprisingly big for a little pond, big enough to get the adrenalin going, and a number of smaller ones, maybe 1 to 2 lb. I visited him at least once a year, and he always had NP in the pond until the last time. It was no trick at all to catch the NP. Often, only a few casts and you'd have one. The NP always hung out at the shallow end. The pond had a good supply of SF and black bullheads.

He wanted to get rid of the NP and stock the pond with LMB. He got rid of the NP and stocked large LMB several times, but never saw a single one. The pond was spring fed, and I think it was too cold. He ended up with neither.

I really like NP, and just knowing there's a 4 or 5 lb northern in the pond is enough to make every cast exciting. I have no idea how big NP would grow in a half ac pond, or how well they would do in a catch and release scenario. If they would keep hitting after being caught and released a couple times, that would be great. Otherwise, I guess the routine would be to keep them and stock more. Or maybe they would reproduce in the pond. It would be the same if you had muskies instead of NP. It's hard for me to guess how black bass of either kind would do in your pond with pike. I'm sure they would all eat smaller members of the other species. What I have read is that CP and SMB do well together in the same pond or lake if the conditions are otherwise right.

From WI DNR: Only fish speices native to Wisconsin can be stocked. Chain Pickeral are not listed on the speices that are considered to be native.

So, have you read the mutt pond thread? Bowfin. Or ling? Blue cat?

Grass Pickerel are legal as are Hybrid Striped Bass.....

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/fishing/documents/species/wifish.pdf

BUT, what seems to have been overlooked is the possibility of winterkill.......

What will be done to address that potential problem?

Why would you have to constantly re stock HSB? If they actually get established, and by that I mean large enough so that nothing preys upon them, you should get several years out of them provided they survive the cold weather. If you have to stock every 4 or 5 yrs, is that really a terrible option?

I have plenty of aeration to keep them alive over winter. Fishm_n those are two great ideas but no-one stocks them and bowfin aren't the tastiest of fish.

I understand what you're saying about the HSB but if i can find a naturally reproduiscing fish I'd put that in instead.

What do you guys think about CC or saugeye?
If CC breed is it a bad thing? Do they dig on the bottom and make the water dirty? Is there a better catfish?
What about saugeye? Are they too hard to find? Would they reproduce much less survive?

Thank you for all the suggestions so far.

My approach would probably be to stock a few fingerlings of every predator species I was interested in and could find a source for, and then see what shakes out. In a couple years, you'd know what kind of pond you have. I wouldn't worry about CC becoming a nuisance. If they reproduce at all, it would probably be an easy matter to fish out whatever you considered excess. They're not very efficient predators, and they don't churn up the bottom. I'd be concerned about the YP. I'd add them at the same time as the rest of the predators.

WI requires a stocking permit, and I don't know on what basis they're issued, i.e., a separate permit for each supplier, or each time you buy fish, or...? Sounds like it could be a pain in the neck.

Putting everything you might want in there at the beginning is a lot easier than adding something later. Once the predators grow, they may eat whatever you add as fast as you add it.

You say throw everything to the wall and see what sticks I'd put in CC and maybe HSB but can i do walleye and or SMB? Should i just go for it and but a few in? Would musky and the like be out?

I think it would be fun and accomplish the diversity I'm going for. Thanks!

In 0.5 acres I would be wary of any reproducing predator. They can quickly overpopulate. I would be very happy to have a pond with no LMB!

You can predict what will happen, but predictions aren't always right, and 25 or 50 fingerlings of the species you're interested in don't cost that much compared to the cost of building a pond. The idea of putting the forage species in first is so that they can spawn and build up their numbers before you add the predators. But if you add the predators as fingerlings at the same time, and go heavy on the forage species, they will probably spawn before the predators are large enough to begin preying on them. At any rate, it worked that way with my pond and SF, LMB, and CC. The safest thing, of course, would be to wait before you add the predators, but that requires patience and slows everything down.

I am a little late to this conversation, but maybe I can add a bit. My wife's and my pond is just over 1 acre and no more than 6 feet deep. It is stocked with LMB, BG, and CC. We didn't put them in there, but there are also crappie. The pond is a dug pond that is fed only by a well or what falls from the sky directly into the pond. It is also aerated. About five years, ago we decided to stock 100 6 inch WE as a bonus fish and to help control the LMB. It tuns out, we discovered, LMB love to eat 6 inch WE. We lost a bunch, but now after five years, the WE that survived are decent sized and there has been limited reproduction. We haven't recorded any significant amount of recruitment, but there is the rare 4-6 inch fish that shows up on the end of a line.

So, what I am saying is don't count out WE. However, Try to raise them to as large of a size as possible before release into the general population, or buy them as large as possible, or they are more than likely going to end up as really expensive LMB food.

Nebucks, I'd be shocked if you actually have any WE reproduction at all, or are you saying the WE have done what you wanted, and limited the LMB recruitment?

I'd have to disagree somewhat with turtlemtn on CC. They will definitely reproduce, and are highly efficient predators once reaching about the 3 pound size (2 years). LMB are most commonly stocked with CC and the LMB fingerlings hammer/control CC reproduction. Lots of small, starving CC will badly muddy the water searching for food.

For some diversity and sustainability, I'd go with YP and a few Pumpkinseed as a forage base (PS also for parasite/snail control), SMB, WE, HSB, and possibly some Hybrid Black Crappie, Grass Pickeral, and a single Pike or Muskie if the Pumpkinseed over-populate.

I'd avoid CC unless LMB were present, or if you plan to catch all CC stocked before reaching 3#.

There are many ways to stock a pond/lake and they are very different. Types , numbers , size , species traits are a few of the factors. Keep in mind that location plays a large roll as well. The most important point is to understand the location ,tropic capacity and owners goal. There is no single right way or even a sure way of getting it correct. Knowledge is the key.

I stocked 3 14" tiger musky this fall along with some yp and fhm. The pond is already established so my hopes for the musky surviving are not all that great. If they do survive it will be fun!

One thing I was wondering...using TM/Musky to help keep the adult lmb population in check makes sense to me but do you think YP will help control the lmb population by preying on the smaller fingerlings? Seems to me they would be more inclined to feed on them than say a 4/5lb lmb...but I am by far no expert.

I'd first address the fact a somewhat shallow BOW in WI runs a high risk of winterkill without aeration. I'd focus on resolving that along side your stocking strategy.

What species do you want featured in your fishery? You're limited due to the size, stocking a prolific Lepomis species like BG will represent a significant biomass and tie up a lot of carrying capacity.

If you were my client, I'd recommend a SMB/YP/HBG/GSH fishery, with a few bonus WE or HSB added for fun. Employ feeding program to help boost growth of SMB, YP, HBG and HSB and will improve recruitment of GSH to feed those species. I'd recommend a different shiner species but they are not commercially available yet.

If you were my client, this would be the stocking plan:

Spring 2016

250-500 Papershell crayfish
100-200 Adult GSH [3-4"+]
1-5 G small/medium FHM [small/med are young or females]
200-400 HBG
200 feed trained YP

Fall 2016

Install aeration system
25-35 feed trained SMB
5-10 WE

Summer 2017

5-10 HSB

You can supplementally, or "ladder stock" additional HSB and WE as your harvest/mortality/fish performance dictate annually.

SMB prefer rocky substrate in which to spawn, and it helps improve recruitment, but I have SMB that successfully spawn on beds made on clay bottom in my pond. You may have recruitment even without SMB beds or rocky areas. If you're not seeing recruitment, you can always supplementally stock down the line to keep your populations at the level you want.

If you want to stock a Tiger, Muskie, or NP for fun and the occasional trophy catch, you could do that. Be aware, BG and PS are highly fecund and may present a population management issue down the road due to lack of wide gape predators - but I agree with Rex I'd go PS way before BG.

My first pond is probably a bit under 1/4 ac. I stocked it 9 yr ago with the usual LMB, BG, CC, and also RES. I wanted the CC to spawn, and I put things in the pond to encourage spawning. It now has a few CC that must by this year's and last year's, or possibly 1 yr older. I still have about 10 of the original 50 CC I stocked. The CC come up readily for hand feeding of floating pellets and I've never seen more than half a dozen of the smaller CC. The pond appears to have all the LMB it can handle; at least one looks like it would go 4 lb. During the summer it was teaming with SF from thumbnail size on up. The only fish I ever took out of the pond was one CC, but blue heron have taken plenty.

I phoned WI DNR today to clarify whether chain pickerel or any pickerel can be stocked in private ponds in WI. I was referred to Kurt Welke, 608-273-5946, who I was told is the authority on stocking in WI. When I asked Kurt if pickerel, and particularly chain pickerel can be stocked in private ponds in WI, he first said: “Sure, any pike can be stocked in WI.” I said I was asking about pickerel, not pike, and chain pickerel in particular, and then we got down to specifics. He said he had never heard of chain pickerel, and he'd been in his job for over 20 yr. He thought the name must be some sort of slang or possible the fish is a cross. He asked for the Latin name, which I gave him. The bottom line was that, yes, there is a species known as chain pickerel, they are not native to WI and therefore can't be stocked, but grass pickerel are native and they can be stocked. He couldn't see any reason why anyone would want to stock grass pickerel, and he didn't know of anyone who raised them. During our fairly long conversation, he talked about how careful WI is to avoid the introduction of diseases or parasites to WI waters, which I interpreted as meaning you'd have a tough time bringing fish from another State into WI. Kurt said he would e-mail me additional info.

Something that might be of interest: NP and grass pickerel have crossed naturally in Nebraska ponds. The following is a link to literature on the cross.
digitalcommons.unl.edu/nebgamestaff

I was shocked to see the little WE on the line myself. Any predation on small LMB that we would get from the WE was going to be a bonus for us. We added the WE mostly in the hope that some of them would survive to edible size. We planned on stocking them about every 4 years to help maintain the population. The most effective control for the LMB has been selective harvest from angling.

I've got to see this fishery sometime, Nebucks. Drop me a line - we should connect - where in NE are you?