Hello, I'm new here so stick with me. I have an old pond by my house in Wisconsin, it is full of thick weeds I'm pretty sure are invasive and peat on the bottom. It's half an acre and maybe 8 feet deep. Also it's connected to a couple acres of swamp. I want to get the muck and weeds out and put in a windmill aerator. I plan on planting to be able to fish sticking BG RES LGMB HSB CC. Pond is already loaded with frogs bugs turtles birds sticklebacks ducks birds etc. It freezes out every year and the connecting swamp and shore is full of trees. Help please

If it winterkills every year, I'm not sure I would trust a windmill aerator to provide protection. Eight feet is too shallow for a Wisconsin pond, and last year I know of some deeper, Indiana waters that suffered winterkills while trying to rely on windmill aeration.

Depth is critical...any way to dig it out, or does the attached swamp make that unrealistic? Also, what species of fish live in the swamp? Whatever calls it home, will also end up in your pond, adding to the biomass and increasing the chances of winterkill.

Nothing big as far as fish and the swamp is like 5 acres and about 1-2 feet deep as as draining the pond that is unrealistic I'd think the windmill will do it but if not I'll try a different type of aerator but I'm trying to do it on a budget. Also i say winter kill loosely because it doesn't affect the frogs turtles and minnows.

Look up MNfish's posts about solar aerators. He might also be able to help you out with ideas. It seems like his ponds are shallow and is having success with them.

Here you go, did some searching for you:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=413559&page=1

Thanks fish n chips what do you think about the fish species

I am not really that knowledgeable in making stocking suggestions, too many variables for each type of pond scenario, and all those variables need to be considered for success. I am thinking that RES won't make it because of the colder winters. Do they survive in other ponds near you? Perhaps pumpkinseeds if the RES can't make it.

Also, are you intending to feed?

I will be stocking minnows as far as feeding plan I'm avoiding it but i would feed if need be. The stocking would be #10 FHM maybe #10 shiners/50 LMB/25 HSB/300 BG/50 RES/50 CC. I know the minnows sound heavy so i think I'll dig and aerate this year and plant minnows then stock in spring

I Looked around and i think they will be fine but if they all die I'll try some pumpkinseed

I like your idea of planting the forage base and waiting till next spring for actual stocking. It will give you time to fine tune your ideas. I hope others jump in and help out with that part of it. My initial thoughts are that it seems like if you have LMB, they will eat all your FHM in a year or two, then the HSB will suffer for lack of food. That's why I asked about feeding. I also suspect that your LMB and CC numbers may be a bit high, and BG numbers a bit low. But then again, that is dependent on goals and region of pond.

Thanks I might cut the bass numbers in half and add fifty blue gill and feed them on a weekly basis

Also my main goal is a harvestable fishery

Also to dig it out i was going to use chemicals. Does anyone have any experience with it? I Looked into it and it sounds like i could solve the problem with grass carp and an aerator.

Would it help if i posted a pic of the pond?

I'm confused. Why stock at all if will winterkill? I'm not sure I would do stock without decreasing chance of that by deepening and putting in more dependable aeration system than windmill.

I'm not able to do much about deepening but i will be using a solar powered aeration system

How close is this pond to an electric source?

It's a stone's throw from my house

I had to read his post twice too. He says it has a spot 8 ft deep but then makes it sound like most of it is shallow. I have seen similar ponds and in most years probably wouldnt winter kill, but would be possible 1 in 10 years and if there is ever a drought probly 1 in 20 for sure, best case scenario. Just a possible thought there and nothing wrong with starting over once in a while too.

PondDragon if you really feel like you want to spend a lot of time and enjoy your pond, draining it and getting rid of some of your "peat" would increase that enjoyment in many ways.

5 acres is big though, but to even do a small core area would give your fish a safe haven and let you know a lot more about your pond.

Sounds like a fun project. keep lots of minnows in there and they will help keep the misqitos done. are they bad there?

sorry I have little experience with airriator and chemical in drainining a pond. I would say that for a more realistic vision of what that would do is not remove the debre but rather help turn peat into silt. a gain of inches not feet. SOme one with experience please correct me, but that is my understanding.

instead of draining have you thought of getting an excavator?

Yes the mosquitos do grow in there but the pond has a huge amount of back up water in the swamp. I've thought of draining it but i don't think i can even with a bad drought.
We just had a bit of a drought and the pond only went down a foot

I'll look but any dam would be holding the swamp water and releasing it wouldn't drain the pond

And fyi the aeration will be provided by a solar powered aerator with two diffusers

If the pond is that close, the best way to go is a normal aerator run by electric near your house and run the airline to the pond. It's going to be a lot cheaper/easier than any solar or windmill set up.

Alright but i thought that was expensive

Fish kills usually occur after several cloudy, windless days.

Reddy Kilowatt keeps that from happening.

So i should skip the solar and windmill and just plug it in

I would.

Ok ill do that

My first question is does the pond water level change? If not you may have a spring. I say that because I have a similar situation and also being in Wisconsin I have never had a winter kill. I did have a mild fish kill in summer before I added aeration. Cloudy days without wind will do it, The more plants in the water the bigger the concern. I can tell you that in my swamp there are several areas that will not freeze because of spring water. I'm not talking water gushing out of the ground, just slow seeps. These areas have never frozen over in the 20 plus years I have owned it. Even if you have a spring the water may have very little oxygen in it. You can't go wrong with adding aeration. I have two ponds that are connected by acres of cattails, each has a wind aerator. I have enough water flow that water flows out my control structure year around, which is why the fish survive. I use the wind aeration to keep the water from stratifying which is a whole new Topic. I think you should stock some fathead minnows right away and think about what else to stock in spring. And then add electric aeration to be safe.

Are you sure there are no fish in now? You may want to put a minnow trap in and see what you get.

Every pond is different so watch your pond and learn by asking questions here.

I will take this opportunity to thank all the members of this site for their help. They are the reason I have been successful with my ponds. Thank you all!

Thanks Woodster, I'd agree with you that i think there are spring(s) in the pond/swamp. I know there are sticklebacks and scarily I saw BH young in the pond a few years back so I'll try using a minnow trap. I'll add the electric aeration and to rid of the pond weeds i might add some grass carp. Does that sound good?

With the grass carp, be sure you know what weeds you have. Grass carp don't eat all types of weeds.

Be sure to do your research on aeration and the proper setup needed. Get help if needed. Lots of knowledgeable people here to guide you thru it. Look up RC51's set up.

If my weeds can be controlled by grass carp and the minnow trap shows what i expect and you guys are ok with everything else i might start very soon.

years ago, I wanted an aerator for a pond I built that dI'd my hAve electricity near it. My initial thoughts were windmill since the area is pretty open and gets significant wind at times, then I learned that the times I would need aeration the most are the times the windmill was least likely to work. I then thought solar, but the more effective solar powered aeration units were prohibit antlers expensive for me. I have never been to Wisconsin, but I imagine you have a bit of snow up there too so that might be another detergent for solar-powered (solar covered by snow when you need it most). I eventually decided to wait until I could run electricity to it. You are more fortunate than I in that you already have elect close so i'd go that route.

I've been around the block and just ain't scared of nothing except the EPA! That swamp sounds like it could be federally protected wetlands to me and I would be scared to drain the pond (swamp). I've seen dead fish floating before though and i'd also be scared of stocking without more depth so i'd probably sneak a big track hoe in there with a long boom and deepen at least a portion of the pond just for added assurance against a fish kill. I would tell as few people as necessary because you might also have some endangered commorant, bug or something using those waters. ;-)

Sorry about autocorrect!

Nope the swamp is all ours. I'd prefer to avoid draining because i want to do this all well under $5,000. It would be a good idea but the cost would be to much also it might ruin the food sources that already exist. Thanks for the advise.

Dragon,

You can get a air setup for around 400, to 450 bucks for your size pond. If your willing to do some leg work. PM me if you want I can send you some info.

I was born and raised in Wis. Where abouts are you? I was born in Stevens Point but moved to Eagle River when I was 1 year old. I sure miss the ole homestead sometimes!! And fishing for big ole Musky and NP!! Had a blast doing that as a kid!!

Anyway your stocking choice doesn't sound to bad for your size pond. I might back your LMB down to 40, and I would not put and CC in there but that's just me I can't stand them... They get big and eat everything eventually... Plus if your gonna put HSB in there also I would stick with just that. Remember rule of thumb is 1 main predator in a 1 acre pond or less. So if you go LMB, and HSB as bonus fish your pond may not handle the CC also!! To many meat eaters in to small a place if you know what I mean!

Electric is the way to go if you can for air. Windmills work yes but initial setup if pretty expensive. I run my system for 8 to 10 hours a night for about 10 bucks a month.... give or take a buck. Plus then in the winter you would have peace of mind that you know you can break a hole in that water using a shallow air station in about 3 feet of water to keep things moving!

I am no expert by any means so take this in and what others have said as well and ultimately it's your decision. Good Luck and have fun with it!!

RC

Thanks i think your right about the catfish they might breed too easily I'll feed the fish to keep the HSB growing and to answer your question i live in Manitowoc county.


What do you think about adding perch to the sticking plan?

I really like minnow traps to check and see how my small fish and recruits are doing. Be advised however that just because you don't catch something in a minnow trap does not mean it is not there.

Some fish are more prone to go into the traps than others. Some will hardly ever go into a minnow trap. I have trapped thousands of FHM with minnow traps, yet lately I hardly ever catch one. Yet I see the fry around the banks near the surface. So what goes into the traps depends on a lot of things.

Set the traps at different depths and different times of day. Check the trap shortly after putting it in the water and at different time intervals like 15 minutes, half hour, over night, etc. Some fish are curious and I have thrown a trap in only to pull it right back out a minute later to put bait in it and have several fish. Yet some fish will go in and find their way back out soon thereafter. FHM I generally catch better in very shallow water near the shore. BG and other sunfish can be had at different depths.

My points are, 1. the minnow trap is a good tool 2.but it likely will not tell you all species in the pond and 3. vary how you use it to get the most diverse results.

If you want larger fish to go in, cut the opening bigger and check the trap at short intervals (because the larger opening allows the fish to escape easier).

Ok i tried trapping now before i planted anything and i only caught 1 stickleback

yeah minnow traps are weird for me.... I have tons of fish I can see them everywhere and I cant catch a fish in a trap? I even hung a worm on a hook in the middle of the trap and still didn't catch anything... I think my fish are to smart for their own good!!

RC

P.S.

Dragon I'm not sure on the perch others here though are so maybe they can help you out on them. I would say it's ok but in actuality they are a predator ,but I don't know enough about them to say yes or no.... sorry

Perch aren't going to do so well in combination with LMB. The LMB will eat all the FHM and small forage that the YP need, and then the LMB will be eating all the YP spawns.

I stocked a few(50) in my pond just for kicks, and they are growing but having a hard time with the LMB. I also have CC, and I think that adds even more pressure on the forage the YP need. I have seen no successful spawns with the YP. On the flip side, I am amazed they are still even there and I'm not complaining.

I have been catching small YP on BG that I am using for bait. They are trying to swallow down a 2-3" BG, which to me is a sign they are desperate for food.

I guess they might have a tough time but what about GSH for forage

Sometimes I get the same response. Sometimes you have to move the trap around to another part of the pond. For example, in my tiny pre-sediment pond that is only 20x40 feet, the west end is by far the best place to put traps. For some reason, the small fish like to congregate there. Other places around the bank I don't get much.

It also depends a lot on the concentration of fish. Right now I have boo-coo forage fish in my main pond. There are no predators in my sediment pond so it also has lots of small fish.

If the fish population is more sparse, not as much is likely to show up in traps.

For top water minnows like gambusia, set the trap with the top center right at water level. Then watch half of them fall back into the water through the mesh of the trap because they are so small.

You have to try different depths, different places till you find out where the fish congregate. They have favorite places to hide and to navigate to avoid predators.

Also a 1" opening is too small for any tall type fish like BG over about 2" long. Make the opening bigger and more chances for a wider range of fish to enter. Long slender fish can go through the 1" opening easier. Thus the name "minnow" trap.

I don't see why you couldn't use GSH! Lot of folks use them...

RC

Alright then i think my plan is finalised

Anyone realize that grass carp are illegal in Wisconsin