I'm a bit of a "prepper". I am developing my weekend property to be a bit of a safe haven in the event that I should ever need to support myself for any length of time. I have recently had a 1/2 acre pond over 14 feet deep put onto my land.

So for my "prepper pond" i am looking to stock some fish that require no outside input except what can be produced on my own land (although I can't image what that might be). And of course do not require restocking.

I am not looking for trophy fish or even fish that taste amazing. I just need some fish that will survive on their own without my help. I don't want a pond full of dead fish when I need them. I am, however, willing to fish it as much or as little as needed to manage the population if necessary.

I can't eat catfish but was told it will do very well in the pond on its own so if that's true, I'd like to stock it for other purposes. But for extra food, what would be a a good fish or combination of fish?

I'm probably not the best person to answer that since I am from Indiana, but Green Sunfish can live through about anything and need zero attention except removal as fast as you can take them out.

It seldom works out very well. To be any good, an environment has to be managed. It's about like turning some cows loose on the land. Somehow, a bull is going to get in. And before long, the cows will have pretty much overeaten the forage and face starvation or will break the fence and leave. Ponds aren't a lot different than that.

When the fish reproduce they have to have a predator and the predator will also reproduce. Sooner or later, it will become over stocked, and quite probably, an oxygen crash will occur.

Your question isn't all that unusual. Lots of people want maintenance free ponds. They just don't seem to work out as expected.

That said, I would try green sunfish or hybrid bluegills.

It is relatively easy to have fish survive on there own in a pond. It all depends on what you want. We pretty much leave our BG, RES, LMB pond alone and it provides a lot of BG for the neighbor, and a lot of fun for kids that want to catch fish. We have a "natural edge" on the pond that was started with planting the emergent plants that we wanted, and removing willows and cattails. We also have domestic water lilies. One can manage a pond for a desired outcome, or one can go with the flow. It is important to add fish of particular species in a particular order if you want compatible species. Otherwise, one species may result in another going extinct in your pond. I will leave it to Texans and other experts to give local advice. The most important thing is to enjoy your pond.

I'm with RAH on this one.... BG,RES,LMB.

What Dave said is true in regards with balance, but you said you are willing to fish it for maintenance. You can monitor which ones to take out so you can keep it in balance.

HBG you should restock periodically. GSF will overpopulate and get stunted so for food they are not wise.

I think the size of the pond plays a big role also, in determining how well or IF a hands off strategy works. It surely must if the pond relies upon angling pressure as a management tool. Too small and the pond can get out of kilter easily and quickly, and too large means the angler's efforts may not have any effect.

Maybe there's a Goldilocks' zone regarding a pond size? A half acre isn't that large, how much food do you anticipate being available in there?

A self-sustaining, perfectly balanced population in a small pond can be a tough row to hoe.

Yep, Bluegill, Redears, and Largemouth is what I would do, I would probably stock with the intention of going LMB heavy as well. This would would leave good numbers of catchable 8" to 15" fish that could easily be harvested in a pinch.

I too agree with BG, RES, and LMB. But some harvesting should be done annually. Definitely do not put catfish in if you are not going to be able to maintain the pond. They will probably not reproduce, but they will become monsters that become the top predators. And when they get big, they are darn hard to catch.

At some point, if you begin to see weeds appearing, it may be worthwhile putting in a couple of grass carp.

I would still like to see the math. How many lbs of fish, how many times per week, over what time period is the desired goal?

I'm pretty new to managing ponds so my reply will not be so much as advice but more ideas that others with more experience can expand on.

If it were me and I had to be the one to eat the fish, BG and LMB with a few RES for grub control would be my choice. CC produce well in small ponds but from a sustainable preppers standpoint the issues already mentioned are valid. Since the assumption is "future emergency food" and not "current regular consumption food" I would also leave the CC out. BH would be a self reproducing catfish and are easy to catch, and might be a better choice for catfish from a preppers standpoint, but I also would not use them.

Although I am fairly new to managing ponds, as a farmer I have been around small farm ponds since I was a kid and have witnessed people fishing them for many years. The standard fare for farm ponds in this area are LMB and GSF. Not the most desirable fish from most anglers standpoint, but they survive with absolutely no management whatsoever and just about any pond you can find around here will have those two fish in them even if the pond has not seen human intervention for years. A fair chance there will also be BH.

One other fish that might be worth consideration strictly from a survival standpoint might be common carp. Everybody will immediately turn up their nose to that idea, but carp were as I understand it originally established in this country from Asia as a potential commercial food fish. Carp, although not an anglers choice or most peoples food preference fish, are a good source of protein and if pressure cooked are very much like canned tuna as far as eating them. My wife has prepared them that way back when we used to spear fish carp in local lakes as part of a scuba/skin diving spearfishing competition event. I think they are very much used as food in a lot of places other than the USA. They are definitely a source of protein that are easy to raise. What I am unsure of is how they might interact with other fish in the pond from a long term sustainability standpoint. The experts would need to weigh in on that issue. But carp can utilize sources of low protein food (like field corn, table scraps, etc) and turn it into protein better than game fish like BG and LMB. So carp might be a consideration from a preppers standpoint.

Something also worthy of consideration is how you are going to harvest these fish should you need to. The obvious first thought is hook and line, but in reality from a preppers standpoint and survival, something like fish traps or a seine may more fit into what a person might actually do if a person was dependent on these fish for food in a self sustaining survival situation. Then angling ease of catching the fish might not be much of an issue. The pond design or your proposed method of catching the fish might be more important. I have heard an old hand crank generator out of an antique telephone with two wires in the water will work, but that is just what the big boys tell me.......... no personal experience that I will admit to. I will say such a device will get a person kicked off the school bus when implemented in having a bunch of kids holding hands while cranking it.......... and one of the little sissies cries......... don't ask me how I know.

I assisted a friend of my father's establish a few ponds on his property for "prepper" type purposes. I too agree with the LMB, BG, RES recommendations. Most original stocking numbers and species recommendations were for food and not fishing purposes.

The classic 500 BG to 100 LMB per acre numbers was from the 30's and the Great Depression when people were looking for food. It's a tried and true recommendation. Adding the RES to this is additional insurance.

For your purposes I'd stock 450 BG and 50 RES this spring. This fall I'd stock 50 LMB. Harvest mostly BG allowing the LMB to remain plentiful in the 10" to 12" range. This will lead to numerous food size BG and RES in the 6-9" range and numerous LMB in the 8" to 12" range for harvest for food.

My dad's friend also has a pond he raises common carp in. They actually produce the most pounds per acre of fish protein. He has multiple ponds to work with, if you add a second pond, I'd look at common carp as an option. The sheer pounds per acre that can be produced by common carp is nearly unbeatable.

Look at having a large seine kept on site for fish harvest. Fishing by hook and line is too inefficient and time consuming in emergency prepping situations. I'd also consider some gill nets which are often illegal but highly effective if SHTF.

Your state of Texas allows Tilapia, and they shouldn't die off during your Winter months. You may consider Tilapia as your primary pond fish.

Maybe give some thought to food prep and storage of these fish. A gill net will certainly do the trick, but may not be feasible if the goal is to harvest small amounts regularly.

If it were me, and it's not, I might consider a large harvest, and plan to store the finished/canned fish rather than try and keep them swimming long term. I don't know your goals, nor do I have an inkling of just what scenario you are preparing for. If it's doomsday, survival-at-all-costs, society is circling the drain, trumpets are sounding kind of thing, you're not going to want those fish swimming in a pond. You're going to need them smoked and dried, or sitting in a mason jar somewhere safe and protected.

You don't want to spend every waking moment watching your pond for leather-clad Mad Max wannabees, out looking for something to eat. Nor would I want to eat bluegills seasoned by a little fallout.

Course', if the scenario you have in mind is just for a few weeks duration, then that's different.

As mentioned, Tilapia is another fish to consider. However, I don't think they will make it thru a Texas winter and the reason they don't ( I think ) is because you are only allowed to stock a certain species of them that aren't as cold tolerant. Now you could keep some breeders over winter, and raise your own, but its a fair amount of work. I have been trying just this, and wouldn't recommend it for just anyone. I wonder how Tilapia compares to Carp to CJB ideas of the most bang per acre? The tilapia would go nicely with Spark's idea of a mass harvest once a year, in the fall. Something I am considering myself this fall if things work out. With the tilapia tho, you might need to feed them if you go with them densely stocked, which sounds like you rather not do.

I have a bit of a self-sustaining mind set too. Not because of the things Spark eludes to (He's afraid Yolk is after him, can't say I blame him ). My pond is stocked much the same way as CJB is recommending. The one difference is I stocked smaller numbers, but began with larger fish. So far all is going good. You still can adjust it and try things like tilapia, trout, and a few other types with out getting to bad. I have messed with these for fun, but has let me get ample table fare till the other species really get going.

With 1/2 acre, you could also consider pumping it down/out to make a harvest easier.

There seems to be a majority consensus here: Largemouth Bass, Bluegill and Redears

I'm really excited to hear LMB here and I know my dad will be happy too. I had ruled them out initially because I've read here that they shouldn't be put in ponds smaller than 1 acre. But you guys all agree that my 1/2 acre, 14 ft deep pond can support LMB?

Tilapia are my favorite, but all the locals tell me they die out in the winter which is no good for me.

Carp was actually very high on my list initially because I've heard that are survivors! Is it not possible to throw carp in as a 4th fish or perhaps to replace the Redears?

It's not so much the general idea of support that will be the issue, it's the NUMBER of fish it will support.

That's why you need an idea of the pounds of fish you intend to harvest, the frequency of the harvest, and the duration of the harvest. Cannot escape the math.

My dad said he will have no problem fishing out as many fish as needed. Knowing him, I have no trouble believing him.

As for frequency, I would guess at least 2 weekends per month. So if the only management that is required is to pull fish out, I think we got that taken care of.

For the prepper view, I think this is all good advice. carp are a good choice but less fun. Should be a good fish to study on. If you guys are willing to manage the lake intensely maybe introduce the comm on carp after large predators are established . Is the black carp legal in your state?

Actually I hadn't even considered that a fish may be illegal! So I checked and actually only grass carp are legal.

Common carp are not illegal in Texas. They are found in nearly every body of water in the state...

Gotcha. My concern was not that the pond wouldn't be fished enough, but rather it's small size would limit its potential as a viable, long-term food source. I have apparently greatly misunderstood the prepper reference. I thought you were counting on this pond to supply a major portion of your food over an extended period.

I think you probably understood correctly because that is my goal. Except I view it more as a supplemental food source because there will be many other sources. But most importantly, my goal is sustainability over the long-term. I'd rather have a pond that provides a small portion of food over the long-term than a pond that provides a large portion of food temporarily. With that in mind, are you thinking that might not be a viable goal with a 1/2 acre pond?

As for math, I think I am more of the thinking that I will take whatever the pond provides so I don't have a set goal as to how many pounds I want or need. I certainly don't want to overfish it and compromise the system.

I am, however, curious how many pounds the pond can provide. Can you give me an idea, using the math, about how much I can realistically expect from a 1/2 acre pond with No aeration and no feeding?

I think a lot depends on your water. Different areas of the country have varying levels of natural fertility, which impacts how much biomass a BOW can support. If a naturally fertile pond in the Midwest can support 400 lbs of fish per acre, than a less fertile one elsewhere might only be capable of half that. So we do the math:

Let's say you're at the upper range on the scale, at 400 lbs per acre. 1/2 acre would then be 200 lbs of fish. Of that 200 lbs, you've got skeletons, entrails, and other non-consumable bits and pieces. Chop it in half again. That leaves 100 lbs of "meat". If your pond isn't that fertile, it drops considerably.

That's why so many add aeration, fertilization, and supplemental feeding. To boost those numbers. But, once you start artificial enhancements, then your pond (fish) may depend upon them for survival. Not good in a situation like what you describe.

I think in your case, I would look at a pond like I would a garden plot. Harvest comes due, you process it and store it. Then you plant again in the spring. A 14 ft deep pond will likely be a ***** to try and seine, but you get the idea. In the beginning, I would use my pond as a production facility, and restock as necessary until I have sufficient storage of prepared and processed food. Then stock with an eye towards self-sustaining productivity. Just an idea.

This might be a usefull link for you to get a generalized idea of food from a pond.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=362400&page=1

AS for the "math", there is just to many darn variables, and the link above kind of touches upon that with their answers. Your pond size is set. Can't do much about that. But as you learn about ponds, mostly from your own experience with YOUR pond(will vary from others' ponds), you will know more on ways to push the envelope to get more production and holding capacity. Way to much to get into with a single post, or even thread. A few years ago I was at this point you are Griff, and I thought why can't I get a straight forward answer, but then with time, you will learn why the answer is so elusive. Spark only scratched the surface with his comments above.

Thank you both for explaining!

Exactly, F&C. I'm not a prepper, but if I were I think I would be all about risk mitigation. Having a pond full of fish is just like having that terrestrial garden full of vegetables.... they're handy, and a vital part of the equation, but they are vulnerable in that state.

Nature might intervene and decimate either or both. Predators, (both two and four legged) can impact the future harvest, and disease could wipe out any hopes for sustainability. If I were a prepper, I would absolutely consider a few ponds and garden plots to be essential. But I would hesitate to consider them to be "money in the bank" so to speak. It's just too risky in my eyes. In my opinion the ideal situation is one in which I have been harvesting that garden plot AND the pond for a few years, and have accumulated a store of food, and most importantly, have secured that food in such a manner as to afford it maximum protection.

Having food available in the garden, and swimming in my pond, would be incredibly important to my continued survival. But I would hate to have to rely solely upon that right out of the gate, when the SHTF.

Optimizing for maximum, storable, non-sustainable production in the beginning, then concentrating on a self sustaining pond would be my plan.

Before I push us too far off topic, I want to get a few more details about the fish types.

I think based on the consensus here, I'm going with LMB, BG and RES.

So when you guys say BG, do you mean any type of bluegill (e.g. CNBG) or is just regular bluegill recommended?

Same with LMB, are there different variations of that and if so, should I just take my pick or is there a specific variation that you guys would recommend based on what I'm looking to do and my specific location?

I'm on the verge of analysis paralysis!

Yep, welcome to PondBoss.

In a pond intended solely for food production during a survival situation, I would want species and strains best suited for my geographic location.

CNBG are a subspecies of northern strain bluegills. Either one would work in your location, but CNBG are often reported to grow faster than northern strain fish...a distinct advantage I might think. Of course, if the calamity involves a dramatic shift in the weather patterns, and Texas begins experiencing vastly colder than normal winters, well.....

I would probably go with a local, reputable supplier, who is familiar with the growing conditions in your area.

Personally, I would stock CNBG and northern strain LMB.

And since you wish to maximize reproduction, definitely do not stock GSH or other egg eaters!

I'm with Spark on his explanation of types to stock. Others from Texas would be good to hear their opinions too, as to which type of bluegill is best for food production.

I would definitely go with a reputable dealer of fish. Someone who's stock has proven to grow fast and add on weight quickly, no matter what species. I'm thinking Overtons, if it is close to you.

Overtons is a good choice. Todd will point you in the right direction. Very good people


Pat

What about cage raising fish along with the open pond? For me I would want to convert to protein as quickly and efficiently as possible. Both growing and harvesting. Cage raised BH along with the classic combination BG-LMB freely swimming the pond.

Honestly, I hadn't considered that. I'm still pretty new to the whole idea in general so I hadn't explored many options to be honest. How are those fish raised? What do they eat?

There are some real wizards here with cage raising. Unfortunately it's not me. Just starting to dabble with it.

My neighbor and I almost every time we hang out talk about all the ways we would produce food and prep for our families. Both for sustenance but also commerce if the SHTF. Our fruit trees, honey bees, fish ponds, ect. He is a master canner (if there is such a thing. He even teaches classes on it) Last year I think he put up around 200 jars of smoked white suckers.

What do you feed the caged fish when SHTF?

I say relax and stock the pond for recreation. If you must prep, stock up on military rations.

To me, this is the real issue with all planning for this idea... it goes along with all the stuff Spark mentions and why LMB, BG, RES is the better choice for ease, a self sustenance pond with manual hand work for management. If it is prepping for just a short term need, like losing a job for a few months that's easier, but long term is tough. Don't want this to get off pond topic, so with what has been said, take a few examples. To push a pond to raise the most food, it probably would be wise to have aeration for holding capacity, right? That means an electric source. Sure you can go solar, but what about the endless scenarios of things that could wrong with that. Next, feeding fish can push growths. Where does the feed come from? What about if nature throws a curve ball and you end up with a water shortage? Anyway....

It goes back to starting with the basics, and then learn, learn, learn. Expand your growing methods as you learn. Learn how to raise your own tilapia fry to throw into the pond every spring. Learn how to do solar aeration. Learn how to cage raise fish. Learn water quality. Learn vegetation control. Learn harvesting methods, like seins, traps, etc. All of this makes ANYONE more prepared, if needed. It makes all of us better stewards of our ponds.

Just have to jump in, and start doing and learning. And Enjoy the ride, it never ends!!!!

Good post fish n chips.

I would add that in any scenario where survival and/or relative comfortable living compared to not being prepared and living poorly is concerned, the three main issues are diversity, diversity, diversity. Not having ones eggs all in one basket, so to speak. Have many multiple ways of providing for ones self and family. With a pond and fish in the pond being one small portion of a much larger and more diversified plan. If a person is depending 90% on a pond to provide sustenance, that is an entirely different scenario than if it is 5% of "the plan".

I would guess in Griff's case, maybe the pond portion of "the plan" is more of the 5-10% of the prepping plan rather than it being the major portion of sustenance in the event it is needed because more normal channels have been made inoperable.

Would that be a safe assumption Griff?

I admit to being baffled by the entire prepper mindset. I've seen those shows on TV, and I have a friend who claims to embrace the prepper philosophy. But as far as I can tell in his case, it's no more than an excuse to collect and shoot firearms, stockpile a traincar load of ammunition, gather as many plastic, food-safe containers as possible, learn to throw a tomahawk(?), and refrain from haircuts and daily shaving. That's all I'm getting out of his efforts.

I'm sure there are those, away from the constraints of reality television, who are very good and quite capable of living the prepper lifestyle, whatever that may be. But I would sure like to get a peek into their operation.

Well put Sparkie I feel the same way

And you need more reason than that!!!

If you're really trying to raise food for prepping you are much better off with an aquaponic system that will grow tilapia, crawdads, and plants.

Yes 5 - 10% is a fair number I think. I dug the pond more for the sheep to have a water source and it of course made sense to throw some fish in their since it's there. My main focus is gardening.

I'm not really anything like the preppers you might see on TV. I hoard nothing. I am very interested in natural living and just being able to provide for myself and my family without too much help from others. That's always been my mentality which is why I've never had a boss.

But my education is in economics so I know there will be a major change at some point and I hope it's not in my lifetime but if it is in my lifetime I don't want to see me or my family in a soup line.

Math will not be denied and the lesson of exponential growth will have its day.

Can you expand on that a bit? Is it the size of my pond?

I'm a prepper, in that I have a plan and the means to carry out that plan should SHTF. Exactly what will cause a SHTF event? Well, the scenarios are nearly endless... some are more likely than others and some are very unlikely.

Some events may only last a week, some a couple weeks to a month. Some could last a month or two. Others 6 months to a year... Worst case scenarios could be a year or more.

Should the power grid go down, and it can happen. (Terrorist attack, cyber attack, EMP both natural or man made) life as we know it will come to a halt... The average person has enough food in their house to last roughly 3-5 days. Restoring the power grid could easily take months... Without access to cash, banking, refrigeration, transportation(trucking), how are you going to get more food? If you planned ahead and do have food, how are you going to protect it from those who didn't plan ahead? Hungry people do desperate things... In my line of work I see how truly helpless the vast majority of Americans have become. Take away smart phones, the internet, electricity and running water for 2 weeks and you'll see America fall apart.

That's just a glimpse... I'm not some over obsessed fruit loop like they show on TV. However, I don't have my head in the sand. I have an "insurance policy" should something silly happen. If you think the government will be there to help in a massive SHTF event, look at how well they performed in the locally isolated Hurricane Katrina disaster...

I don't act like it's eminent but I do act like it's possible because it is. I don't skip hair cuts, I practice personal hygiene and have no clue how to throw a tomahawk. I do have firearms and plenty of ammunition but I'd have that whether I was a "prepper" or not... My family does have a plan and food and other provisions to hold us over for an extended period of time. We have the means to defend it as well. Am I crazy, I think not...

If you want to see a true "prepper" lifestyle, I'll introduce you to one of my father's best friends. He and nearly his whole family lives completely off the grid, produce about 80% of what they use but could easily go to 100% if needed. They utilize some modern conveniences but would be just fine without... I'm not into revolving my whole life around that line of thinking but to each their own. Just like if you don't want to take any special actions to prepare for a possible SHTF event, that's your choice and not for me to judge.

At one time I could easily have done it. Now, I'm likely too old and am not kidding myself. We might make it a month.

I don't have a prepper mentality but I was young in the later stages of the depression when friends were putting cardboard in their shoes because of the holes in the soles. I had new soles sewed onto my old shoes. I had older friends that went through hell and ask me if I had ever been really truly hungry. So a collapsed economy, drought in the west bringing a horde of people back to the eastern part of the country, etc. could happen.

So here are my thoughts. I have a nature pond with lots of plants and just a few GC to help to keep the plants somewhat controlled. I have only minnows & used to have bluegill in addition to that but lost them in a drought a few years ago. But for a survivalist the bluegill could be eaten. The minnows bring in lots of wildlife that could be shot for food. Just yesterday I cold have shot a Blue Heron, a Green Heron that are after the minnows, a couple of ducks and a couple of geese that come in for the plants. I could have caught bullfrogs, and a little later in the spring around the pond area I could harvest bird eggs. Also in the pond area I have lots of raspberries, some blackberries and mulberries. And the hated cattails are one of the best food providers in nature. Also in some fence rows are wild apples. All of this is wild and provided without much help from me. So if it ever came down to being a survivalist I am ready to go without trying.

Also you can buy watercress from the grocer and stuff the stems in the shore of your pond and they will root and grow.

Cattails for food. I have made salids from the lower stems of cattail and it is delicious.
http://www.wildmanstevebrill.com/Plants.Folder/Cattails.html

I am one of those guys that is simi prepared and that might not be enough, but its better than most, I think. The only thing that would change my plans would be where all or most of the animals and fish would die out before me and mine. I am an outdoorsman and have been that way for most of my life and I think that is way ahead of most here in the US. I also hoarded silver and gold coins, but I think, only the silver might be used in a barter situation, gold, not so much. And I am prepared to share or protect as necessary.

Tracy

As I said earlier, I know very little about the prepper lifestyle. However I do think there is probably a big difference between being a prepper, and embracing a more natural, self-sufficient means of existence. Many of you know or have probably gathered by now, that I come from a family where knowledge of the outdoors, and what it offers, was common and expected. It wasn't because my family were preppers, it was because they were poor.

Right now, we're coming into the prime growing season. I might be able to provide for my family, should the need arise. But what happens if the SHTF event occurs in January? That's why, to me at least, all the talk of planning and knowledge should take a back seat to action.....actually taking steps NOW, to prepare for those lean times. Like what Travis is doing. Knowing how to grow a garden is great, but that takes time...going to get pretty hungry waiting for those tomatoes and green beans to mature. A lifestyle like what we're discussing shouldn't be one you adopt one day, and proclaim yourself "ready" the very next day. I think it takes years of implementation to truly be "ready".

My buddy who calls himself a prepper couldn't hold a candle to the folks in the Amish settlements down the road a couple miles. The difference as I see it, is they haven't adopted a mindset, so much as they're living a lifestyle...full time, all day, every day. And have been for years. I would wager that they're far more ready than most, and they probably aren't even aware of it, or at least never looked at it that way.

Have you prepared and stored any of those animals and fish? That's where I see a potential problem for so many, they may have the knowledge and the skills, but they rely on the forage to always be there, and be obtainable.

Sparkie, some storage, but I gets hit from time to time and has to be replaced at different times of the yr. So, should it heppen when storage is up, were good. but if SHTF when storage is lower, then it OH CARP !!

Tracy

I was referring to your comment on economics rather than ponds when I made that comment (having to do with how what we call money is created and maintained), and it is discussion material for a different forum, not being related to ponds.

We try to keep a couple months food supply on hand. A lot of canned goods that we usually don't eat (don't really like some of the canned soup and products that well - my wife is a much better cook than what we can get out of a can). Along in the Thanksgiving to Christmas season, we give it to a local food bank and replenish the stock for the next year.

Some needy people get some food each year, and we have a fresh supply should we or some of our family members need it.

I'm not a prepper by any means, but I do believe it is wise for a person to maintain a position that they are not dependent on modern living that they can't last a week without modern conveniences. We might be inconvenienced but I think we could make it a couple months, winter or summer, without too much undue hardship. Beyond that, it would get more difficult, but likely we are in a lot better shape than someone living in a highrise in a city. Being on a farm and in a rural setting helps a lot. Just the regular inventory of fuel, generators, pumps, chainsaws, tools, land, etc. gives us a lot of resources that the average person might not have access to. By keeping a pantry stocked in addition to our other on hand resources, we might not be equipped for an end of the world disaster but we should be able to get through a natural disaster caused shortage or something of a similar duration man made disaster.

Kind of like buying liability insurance for my car. I don't plan on using it, but it is nice to know it is there if I need it.

I have heard that the best bartering item is TP during such times...

Gotta' be truth in that, especially since printed catalogs are becoming scarce.....

Back when I sold a lot of emergency food packages I was amazed at the number of people that never thought about water or put that at the top of there list. The saying that 1 gallon per person, per day is fine and dandy, but after a week or two you better be getting worried. All the food in the world wont keep you alive without drinking water.

Stocking up on bleach is the ticket to safe drinking water. Not sure why I know so much about this. I must be a closet prepper...

You guys remember way back when a game called "Oregon Trail"? I really liked that game. To me, my buddies and I are experiencing a small part of the real world version. A goal of self reliance and sustainability. A little like our fore fathers and pioneers. Except with small advantages like I-Phones and Charmin

I would think true prepping by a prepper would be not letting anyone know you are prepping

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Keyboards and laptops would be kind of brutal, eh?

There's always corncobs....

Ouch! Cringe at the thought

My Dad always said, "Bucket of red cobs and a bucket of white ones. Use a few reds then a white to see if ya need to use more reds!"

How about goldfish? I hear they can live through a nuclear winter, reproduce avidly and would provide a source of protein not far off from common carp. In a clean pond why would their flesh not be suitable for consumption?

and, as an aside, it seems every time we have a sunny day and the fish are feeding at the top I count more of them, and they seem bigger. Help! What started out to be about 5 brilliant red seems to be about 50 mostly brown, some slightly brown/orange and a fwe brilliant orange ones. They don't seem to go in minnow traps, I can't seine them, going to have to think about other ways to trap them. They probably are bigger than any predator that I would put in could handle. I can only hope the resident kingfisher comes back. I think they stay in just deep enough water that the GBH cannot reach them.

I guess as a food source as a prepper you also have to figure out how to get the carp/goldfish/crappie or whatever onto the dinner plate at will too.

At one time Mormons always kept a 6 month supply of canned goods. They rotated everything to the front as it was replaced at the back. I assume that some of them still do.

I once read, in Mother Earth News, that the 2 highest value items in a barter economy were ammo and whiskey. I'm pretty well prepped on this stuff.

Ammo I have, the whiskey keeps getting drank up. 😮
Cmm

I have wondered if alfalfa pellets would work to trap carp, goldfish, tilipia, etc.

Don't know, just asking. Those fish like plants. I wonder if a person could start feeding a few alfalfa pellets (created for dairy, rabbits, maybe horses) getting them used to it, then using it as trap bait.

Might be worth an experiment.

To replace toilet paper, most people wouldn't have corncobs and Sears and Roebuck catalogs, but the Romans used a sponge on the end of a stick and rinsed it to use over and over. When we have had our electric go out for a week from an ice storm the pond came in real handy in that I got water from the pond and kept the toilets flushing. We heated the house with a Franklin wood stove and cooked our food on it. I had two decorative but working oil lamps mounted on the walls we used for light.
So when you think of being a prepper think of no electricity. Turn your electric off for a couple of weeks and that will tell you how prepared you are. Think of having no gas for your vehicles, chain saws or automobiles. Do you know how to build a root cellar to store you food. I have plans from a guy in Scotland that serviced rural people's 12 volt systems in there home using a home built windmill and generator. I've made my own wine which could be used for trading and use. For years I read the original Mother Earth News before the couple that started it sold out and it wasn't anything like it used to be. I think where the prepper's fall short is they think there are going to be food in tin cans to be stored away in a real crisis. The cans are made in a factory and the food is grown in field and harvested by laborers and process again in factories. You can see the chain of events that will collapse in a real crisis. I'm not a prepper but a realist.

New battery that's interesting for self sustained electric.
http://www.computerworld.com/article/291...m-for-3500.html

Tilapia easily and voraciously take to regular fish pellets, and others have stated the grass carp become feed hogs too. I would imagine traps that incorporated feed would work on both of those.


I have had no luck in using a cast net while the tilapia feed. They are just way to skittish. Keep in mind this is in my pond with my abilities. I know others can catch them just fine, probably without feed.

Could alfalfa pellets be made in a crisis situation? And then you have to weigh the trouble of making them, versus just letting the pond be self sufficient with LMB and BG. I would think with tilapia, you could just throw in freshly cut plant matter and they would devour it, if their regular food source was gone.

Edit-- at the very least, throwing in plant matter/nitrogen would create algae problems and then feed the tilapia....

John M- The battery is cool. I saw that beforehand. In my area constant/reliable sun is problematic. That's why they built the arsenal near me during WWII. That battery might be something to consider with aerators, which has always been a limiting factor for me. They are saying it will be ok to mount outside. Definitely a game changer.

I don't see why anyone would want to go with this new battery for home use. It's cost is way to high. I went with a generac generator and propane as the fuel to be off the grid. Propane is not expensive and the generator will power up a 3,000 sq. foot home with air conditioner. And a small generator supplied with propane will service all the air to a pond u would need. it might not be perfect system but when I look at this battery system along with solor panels the cost to supply energy to a 3,000 sq. foot home would be way to costly.

Tracy

I think it's about more than costs. Who provides the propane, vs. who provides the sunlight? Propane is still a fossil fuel, and relies upon infrastructure to get it to you. Sunlight beams down on its own accord...

fish n chips, thanks for the good idea. I think my family members have chinchilla food and rabbit food available so i don't have to buy a whole bag and find it doesn't work. At least those are grass/plant based pellets and I can give it a try.

Others suggested baiting with corn, one family members thought corn flakes might be better

I was thinking about how we have bags of lucky charms where the kids picked out the marshmellows and then won't eat the rest of the bag. Maybe I'll get lucky with lucky charms, or chocolate Cocoa puffs might act like a good floating, self expanding, round, brown fish pellet

I have had luck catching tilapia on anything I try..... ONCE!... Seems they are fast learners. Other than pellets, the best repeated bait for me has been frozen peas or worms.

I am not a prepper but grew up producing most all of our own food and still do. I would get a good canner and learn to can fish and meat, veggies. you would be amazed , I have wood heat , water wells , ponds
Wildlife etc.
Look at Bloody decks in the food /recipe section , lots of good info on canning fish. also about any good canning book. I enjoy it.
To each his own I don't worry about it much. But I live on a dead end road at the end. I work in the middle east and understand how fast things can go down hill.
Personally don't want to live through nuclear war.
In saying that I have seen a lot of unmanaged ponds , I would go with CNBG, RES , LMB, and harvest bass when they become overcrowded. its pretty easy to tell when a fish doesn't have enough to eat. You will be surprised how many fish dinners your pond will produce.
Dale

Regarding the battery. If this battery is a new breakthrough,,if it stores more electricity,, is lighter weight and costs less then this is a real game changer. That kind of a battery is what everyone in the world has been trying to develop. Let hope it is all that. If it is then Tesla Motors may be the new Henry Ford. But I will believe it when I see it.

The battery is just a Lithium Ion battery. Been around for a long time. The news is that Tesla Motors, in cooperation with Panasonic is building a giant factory to produce these batteries.

Enphase is supposed to be coming out with a battery for their solar rig that stores a lot of juice.

Vanadium technology far surpasses L-I because they supposedly don't degrade over time.

Battery wars - the answer to that is to use less power. I have LED bulbs in my flashlight's and haven't replaced a battery in many years.

Solar is becoming more reasonable, but they have to work an awful lot on making households more efficient for that to be more attractive.

As far as Preppers go, well, I know a few.

My curiosity would peak upon excavating a 55 gallon plastic barrel that's been buried for over 10 years, full of food.

What are the quality of eats going to be?

I'm just not going to worry about it. If I have to resort to skinning Chimpmunks...

I don't get the led flashlights...they are insanely bright to look into the lens, but they don't give off much light??? I hate the things...give me an incandescent flashlight any day!

You have to get the right ones. Also have incandescent as well.

If you're crawling around in a dark control panel, you'll appreciate the intensity of a focused LED.

The reflector optics on 99.9% of the multiple LED lights simply suck and scatter the refracted light. I'm with sparky....give me a single filament incandescent that can have the optics tuned. LED is pretty good, up close, but I find the light temperatures change the colors too much for me.

I agree on that with the multi bulb rigs. My brother got me one a while ago and it sucks. I just keep it by the door at the shop in case someone turns off all the lights and I have to go to the back of the building to turn them on. All my Real flashlights are Maglite's in various flavors. I like the LED over incandescent for close work, which is more than 90% of the time of why I am turning one on.

Spark, you're supposed to point the flashlight in the same direction your eyes are looking

Flash light wars. I side with the multi LED's. I have walked for years with my dog and we start very early mornings from 2 to 4am and get two to three walks in the dark walks with a flash light. I tried several different kinds of incandescents. Some had decent coverage and some just sucked with a big black hole in the middle. One such lantern type flashlight was bought from Amazon and made in China. It had a big black hole in the center of the focas. The bulb soon burnt out and when I went to replace the bulb I found the bulb and lenses were completely factory sealed so you couldn't replace the bulb. I thought OK, I will use the battery in another flashlight but it was slightly shorter and would not make contact in ordinary flashlights. I bought an incandescent at a local store that the focus was perfect so I went back and bought the other three they had left but their focus was terrible. Then at Walmart I seen and bought this 10 LED flashlight with battery for $5. The lighting was very even and reached out surprisingly far and the battery last for ever it seems. This is my second one from Walmart. I dropped my first one from a step latter.

This is my prepper approach:

1. Find somewhere sun is abundant and weather is mild, with proven aquifer or lake.
2. Invest in solar and new battery technology (tesla?).
3. With sun and water, plants are easier to grow.
4. Then may be a pond in green house, aquaponic to harvest plant, shrimps and fishes.
5. Since one would not be dependent on grid, one can find somewhere away from population or potential mobs.
6. Food source would be free range chicken that live off the land, their eggs, fish, shrimps, vege. fruits, nuts etc.,

In this case, one needs to store say yearly supply of fish/shrimp feed, a water storage, a diesel storage, flour. Then pray the calamity would not involve long period of sun-less days.

Assuming that one has enough solar produced power, one can even get one of this Desalt for home devices. Their 400-BHL-1 produces 400g per day or about what it takes for a family of 4 according to EPA, for that, it will need 15KW. So lot of solar panels.

But one can be near the ocean with unlimited water lol.

Mag lite led two Dcell bright as heck and shines 80-100 yards bright enough to kill hogs at nite