I am building a 1 acre pond in central Indiana in the summer of 2015. The pond will be 13' deep max with average depth of 5-6” Fish desired, Perch/Walleye/Redear sunfish/Hybrid striped bass. Goals for pond are perch to eat and Striped bass for fun, walleye as predator, redear sunfish for parasites.
I plan to feed and provide aeration
Plan:
Stock 20# FHM the fall of 2015
Stock 350 6-8” perch and 50 redear sunfish in the spring of 2016
Stock 25-30 7-9” walleye and 30 8-10” Hybrid Striped Bass in fall of 2016
Harvest walleye when they reach 16-19” to preserve larger perch.
Harvest approximately 50 perch fall/winter of 2016 and 100-150 perch/year in the following years.
I would really appreciate the opinions and suggestions of this forum of my stocking and harvest plan.
Thanks!

I am in west-central Indiana and am mid-stock of a 1 acre pond intended to support SMB. I have so far stocked GSH, RES, FHM, and YP. I recently added more YP because the YP eggs that I saw were not fertilized. I will be interested in how your pond develops. I have had great advice from professionals on this site. Please post pictures as you build your pond. I am also curious who you are having build you pond and how that works out.

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Do plan of pellet feeding the YP and HSB?

Yes I plan on feeding and providing aeration.

Thanks for your reply Bill. I am planning on feeding, but I thought it would be nice to add the FHM this fall to get things started. Do you think I should add something like golden shiners or rosy reds in addition to the FHM?

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Great sounding fishery plan - several of us have something similar. It's evident you've been researching threads on the forum to formulate this plan - well done!

Few things to consider:

FHM and YOY YP/RES will not provide enough forage for HSB/WE/YP. FHM population will likely be extirpated within a few months, maybe sooner, once predators population attains gape to utilize them as forage. So, we need a backup plan.

Considering your geography I think sourcing BNM [bluntnose minnow], SFS [spotfin shiner], and LCS [lake chubsucker] would be easier than it is for us in NE. A combination of these fish would provide a multilayer forage base but will need a year to establish depending on density of stocking. Wait until these species have spawned at least once successfully prior to stocking YP, WE, or HSB.

Worst case scenario [and it's not a bad scenario], you can considering GSH to serve as primary forage. In my personal experience, they do compete with my YP for pellets being much more aggressive and schooling in nature - but others on the forum have NOT reported this issue - so it may be unique to my fisheries. Don't take this as a rule - either way - your experience may vary. Regardless, GSH will help keep WE and HSB fed. You may need to supplementally stock GSH annually to help keep reproducing fish present - per Cody aging adult females can develop ovarian[?] issues impacting their reproductive capabilities. GSH are easy to source so periodic stocking shouldn't be an issue. Stock fish in the 3-4" range so they don't suffer immediate predation.

I agree to implement pellet feeding program to help boost performance of YP and HSB, simultaneously relieving some pressure off the forage base. Keep diligent length/weight measurements and read the fishery - it will tell you what adjustments need to be made to your strategy. Be prepared for the following: You may find you need to ladder stock YP if there's no recruitment due to YP/HSB/WE predation; you may need to supplementally stock GSH if numbers are dwindling and WE body conditions are declining; or even boost RES if you notice black or yellow grub presence in fishery. Again, the pond will relate to you what it needs with these signs - and we can help you interpret them and provide direction for you to consider.

Thanks teehjaeh57 for the reply and compliment, I appreciate that.
Do you think that cutting the number of walleye and HSB to 10-15 each would be a better number, since my primary goal is to have YP to harvest and reproduce, with the walleye and HSB mainly as my predators to keep the YP from over populating? Or would I be better off adding the other forage fish you mentioned?
Initially I was concerned that I would have an abundance of young YP each year, but it sounds like I may not have enough.
Should I also consider modifying my harvest plan for the YP?

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Rooted vegetation [macrophytes] will impact your YP recruitment significantly - if it's abundant and dense, recruitment is more likely to be successful with cover available for YOY YP to escape predation. Since it's a new pond, this is an unknown factor currently.

Long range plan: If you can exercise some patience [which is very hard to do I totally understand] I would recommend sourcing species of forage identified above in sufficient numbers to allow for several breeding pairs, wait until they have reproduced at least once, then move on to stocking the other species. Stocking the RES now would not likely impact your forage base establishment efforts, but you can certainly wait on them, too.

Short range plan: You can stock RES and YP immediately [this year] along with GSH and FHM, then stock the WE/HSB as early as this Fall or next season [probably better]. Either plan will work, or something in between, but I prefer the long range approach - but it all depends on your personal preferences.

Initially at least, I think the predators will have an advantage on YP YOY due to lack of dense vegetation - but over time this will change depending on how you manage the pond [how much rooted vegetation you allow to grow]. You can always adjust population of HSB and WE through harvest if you're not seeing any YP recruitment, and supplementally stock either species if you're seeing too much YP recruitment or you can manage the % of vegetation making YP predation easier. Many ways to manage...really comes down to what your goals are. You should be constantly making observations and reading the cues of your fishery and make adjustments to your strategy. Don't lose too much sleep on initial stocking numbers, because the fishery will dictate what you need to do regarding harvest or stocking down the road. If you feel better nudging the initial stocking of HSB and WE down, by all means go for it and invest that capital into a few more LCS, BNM or SFS. If YP go crazy, stock some WE or HSB down the road, the YP fishery will respond accordingly.

1 AC fishery is easy to manage and overcome issues in a short period of time if you make an error here or there. Remember, trying new things and failing is science/knowledge - and I'd say I'm only right 25% of the time on new experiments on my ponds.

Definitely plan on feeding the YP, and consider implementing aeration at some point - aerating a 1 ac pond is affordable and you can follow several members' plans for a DIY system.

If a forage pond is an option for you per Bill, I would surround your primary pond with 3-4 small cells [approx 1,000 sq ft or smaller or larger] that can drain directly into the pond via gate valve. You could use them as reproduction cells for specialty forage like LCS, SPS, BNM or Grass Shrimp - or use them for grow out ponds for your YP, or use them as experimental ponds hybridizing fish. I've done all these things, it's a blast and helps save a lot of money down the road AND adds a ton of science to the forum - which benefits the entire community.

Looks like most is covered but I 'll throw in my half cent. I stocked fatheads and shiners 1 year before perch and now entering the third year, both minnows are doing well and the perch have exploded, size wise. I do have a forage pond from which if needed, I can move minnows to keep the pond going with forage for the perch. I do not feed perch other than minnows at this point.

My other pond is Walleye, SMB and catfish. So far, I couldn't be happier with the outcome. After 4 years of forage and entering year 3 of predators, fatheads struggling but shiners still doing well. I went real low on stocking numbers 25 walleye and 40 SBM for my 1.33 pond. SBM spawned after 1 year in pond (2 yrs old) and are pushing 15 inches this spring. Walleye this spring have hit 16 inches and looking good. I like the lower numbers thought when stocking.

good luck

If your goal is mainly perch for harvest: "Harvest approximately 50 perch fall/winter of 2016 and 100-150 perch/year in the following years." Then I think you are stocking too few perch and too many predators per acre. I would consider making the perch 400-600/ac of two sizes: 4"-6" and 6"-8"; split 60:40 either way depending on how soon you want to have big perch for harvest. 60% 6"-8" will provide more larger per quicker but a little more expensive initially.

In a new weed free pond predators will crop all your minnow forage and then crop your recruitment of perch heavily thus requiring the supplemental annual stocking of YP as noted by TJ. If YP are really the main goal, I wouldn't stock any predators until you see excessive numbers of small YP 3"-5" feeding on pellets and they are not growing at 2" to 3" increase in length per year. Not growing or slow growing means too many perch. Adult pond spawned YP and not feeding on pellets will also eat some small YOY perch. A 10"-13" YP can easily eat 2"-3" YP. Each HSB-WE predator will significantly reduce the number of harvestable YP by 100-200 perch per year which is okay if you prefer having predators vs harvesting lots of perch. Predators are okay, they just reduce the harvestable amount of YP.

Advice for diversifying your forage fish is good and BNM and SFS can tolerate perch only predation but struggle to recruit with HSB and WE present depending on density of predator and amount of weed cover. Crayfish is also good in a perch pond. They provide additional food items and when common help with algae control which tends to be a problem in pellet fed ponds. Tilapia also can help in perch ponds to reduce algae problems. One amur (grass carp may help reduce weeds. Turbid water (12"-24") also helps reduce predation pressure on all species.

Create habitat for crayfish before the pond fills. Read the pond habitat posts by DonoBBD from Canada. This thread describes his pond. He has other threads that discuss his perch fishery, forage fish, and his crayfish.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=408650#Post408650

Rah,
In answer to your question, "I am also curious who you are having build you pond and how that works out." - I found an excavator that was recommended by a friend. He was the only contractor that I talked to that liked the idea of a clay liner. I will let you know how it works out.

I want to thank everyone for the advice, it has been very helpful.
I think that I will add additional types of forage fish, raise the number of YP to stock and wait on the walleye and HSB until they are needed to help with YP population.
I like the idea of the forage/sediment pond but the topography here is pretty flat with little change in elevation. This pond will be fully excavated.
Can't wait to get started!

Be careful that your contractor doesn't build you a leaker. I suggest that you do some reading in the Pond Building Section for the correct pond building methods for excavating and compacting clay soil. It is science and art. Fixing a leaker pond can cost as much or more that the initial construction.

Start by reading through threads in this link. Learn the proper techniques for soil excavation and soil compaction. Many dirt excavators do not know proper pond building and soil compaction techniques. You may have to guide your pond builder to get what you want. Or search for one that is very experienced. Read some of the leaky pond threads to get an education. It is apparent that lots of people pay to have a leaky pond.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92487#Post92487

You've gotten advice from some of the most knowledgeable members here. Bill Cody isn't known as Dr. Perca for no reason... TJ has mastered growing all species in his pond to a quality if not trophy size.

If I may stress on thing, utilize the advice and be patient. Often times, being patient leads to faster results than trying to rush things in the long run... In a new pond, you have a virgin piece of water only once. Once the fish start going in, you cannot reverse things but for killing everything off.

I really like the idea of utilizing non-reproducing predators in smaller ponds. HSB and WE do not spawn in 99.9% of ponds and it would be closer to 99.9999% of ponds 1 acre or less in size. The nice thing about this is you can closely control predator numbers and thus control the way they affect fish populations in your pond.

In a new pond free of predatory fish, it doesn't take many forage fish to establish a population of this species. Most of my non-traditional forage fish species were established with 1 to 2 dozen of each variety. It's likely adding non-traditional forage fish species will not cause all your species to become world records, but having a diverse forage base will certainly help, especially if you manage your game fish numbers correctly.

Although obtaining non-traditional forage fish species can be difficult/expensive, like I said you only need a couple dozen and a little patience to get them established. If interested in trying to establish bluntnose minnows(BNM), spotfin shiners(SFS), lake chubsuckers(LCS) or other species, let me know and I can point you to a few sources for the species. With those species along with the YP and RES, I do not believe you will need to add GSH.

GSH are good in LMB ponds or ponds with SMB along with HSB and WE. Otherwise, they generally become too abundant, too large and compete with RES, YP and others for food and space and become obnoxious bait stealers.

Gary - I am still looking for a pond builder. It took 4 contractors to get my last one built. It turned out OK but was a stressful project. One of the builders that did an excellent job on the dam fix seemed like a good bet for my next pond, but he seems too busy to give me an estimate, so I think that I will not consider putting the pond in till next year, if I can find a contractor that gives me confidence. This pond will be in the woods, so that gives me more time to clear the basin.

I will be building a small forage/sediment pond in the next month or so, weather permitting. I will be stocking it with SFS and BNM. Any suggestions on spawning habitat for the SFS? I plan on providing FHM type habitat for the BNM.

Any downside to spottail shiners as a third choice?

We do not know how dependably spottail shiners (not SFS) will spawn in a pond. Does anyone know of a pond where spottail shiners are thriving and positive that they are spottail shiners?. Spottails are normally river and lake inhabitants.

Spotfin shiners(SFS) are crevice spawners seeking cracks and crevices that are 1/8" to 3/16" wide. In the wild the spotfins usually seek tree bark that is peeling away form the trunk. In crevices 1/4" and wider the opening gets to be too wide of a crevice and is ignored by the spotfins. High production systems use artificial spawning devices for spotfins that are copies of or similar to hester dendy samplers.
http://www.hesterdendy.com/
http://www.ag.auburn.edu/fish/image_gallery/details.php?image_id=1703&sessionid=eb4e832e58fada

So sounds like no harm in trying. If I catch some spottails locally when trapping for minnows this summer, I will toss them in the forage pond. I will also post some pics so we can get a good ID on them. Know anything about required spawning habitat for spottails?

All my info about spottail spawning requirements would come from the literature. A good web search should give a good basis for spawning behavior of spotails. In my experience the spotfin shiner will be much more prolific spawners in a pond habitat than spottail shiners. In optimum conditions, spotfins are almost as prolific as FHM.

My pond has been filling and is about 1/3 acre in size and probably 8' deep (will be 1 acre and 13-14' deep when full). I was thinking of adding 20# of fathead minnows this month and I have a few questions.
1. Is this enough water for 20# of the FH minnows?
2. How difficult is it to hand sort 20# of FH minnows?
3. Would I be ok to also add the RES now or should I wait until next spring when I add the perch?

Definitely.



A LOT of work. It's often suggested to stock lower numbers of FHMs. You ensure there are no hitchhikers and they spawn like crazy anyway.



No reason to not stock them now, in my opinion.

I am not a pro. From my experience, 20# of FHM will be 4000 to 6000 fish. My pond is about the same size as yours and I started with a lot less. With the water cooling quickly, I would not count on much spawning activity until the water warms to 55 F or so next spring. You should also count on losing some of the largest ones over the winter as FHM have a very short life span.

Just my thoughts...maybe one of the pros will throw their 2 cents into the discussion.

For Reference here is the original stocking plan.
Stock 20# FHM the fall of 2015
Stock 350 6-8” perch and 50 redear sunfish in the spring of 2016
Stock 25-30 7-9” walleye and 30 8-10” Hybrid Striped Bass in fall of 2016

BillD. is correct you will not need 20# of FHM unless you plan to stock fish larger than fingerling which is the original plan. FHM will survive in your partially filled pond. However the pond will develop more of the natural fish food items if the minnows are not stocked until early next spring. Then I would stock the 10# FHM and use the extra money to add more RES probably 150-200. FHM at 10 Lbs will also be easier to sort. Also in Spring one tends to get more adult (breeder size) FHM than in the fall when most of the FHM are YOY and smaller individuals from crowded fish ponds.

Consider using two stocking sizes of YP 4"-6" and 6"-8". More of the larger size if you want to harvest some 8"-11" YP in fall off 2016. With ample food or pellet feeding the 6"-8" YP stocked in early spring will easily be 8"-11" by fall. YP will eat few if any 2"+ RES if YP are fed pellets and FHM or other minnows are available. YP thrive on 1"-1.7" minnows/shiners. If you expect the fishery to truly flourish in years 4-6, you are going to need some other multiple forms of forage if you stock WE and HSB. Consider adding GSH although they are known to be nuisance bait stealers when angling with worms and ice fishing.

If you want to stock some fish this fall spend some effort to get a few bluntnose minnows, or spotfin shiners or less common species of beneficial forage fish such as lake chubsckers. Let them establish, get a head start and do some growing before others are added. Line up some crayfish for spring stocking. The papershell crayfish is a very good crayfish for Indiana-Illinois ponds.

You can add some RES now but it will be probably better if you add them in spring when small fish foods will be more abundant and the fingerling RES do not need to survive winter conditions with limited food reserves.

What you should be working on now before the pond is full is to add abundant spawning habitat and small fish habitat along the shallow areas to promote the forage fish that will later spawn. Drive the country side looking for piles of rocks or concrete to haul back to the pond. Contact some smaller construction guys or concrete installers for them to bring you some waste concrete removed from some of their projects. Broken concrete along one or two whole shorelines will also stabilize the shoreline from erosion due wind action. Broken concrete of various sizes either placed or haphazardly placed creates great spawning areas and habitat for producing fish foods and all types of small fish. Concrete rip-rap lined shorelines down to 5-7 ft deep also help reduce the amount of weeds that will grow and could become a nuisance in shallow water of sloping banks. Some weed growth in shallow water is good and it can occur in the other 1/2 of the pond without riprap. At the base of the deeper rip-rap will be a good place to catch the walleye you plan to stock.

Also if you don't have it done get your dock built or at least the dock posts in while the water level is low.

I have listened to Bill word for word on our pond project. This is the best thing I can say to do. Listen to Bill and the experts.

I was like every other new pond owner. I want fish and I want to catch them next year. It takes time and is best to do it right.

Three years into our project and what a wonderful pond we have now.

I can not stress enough is to get other minnows that are native into the pond. The FH minnows we put into our pond are all but gone now after the first generation perch born in the pond perch can eat them. They are taking to the feed now but all but wiped the FH out of the pond.

We have common shiners and emerald shiners as well as johnny darters. Fast minnows have a much better chance in a small pond.

If I was to do this again the only thing I would do different is like Bill stated in one of his posts in this thread. Start with two classes of perch. We are top heavy with breeding 12"+ perch all were 6-8" and we stocked 400.

Cheers Don.

Gary - If you find a source of bluntnose minnows or spotfin shiners, and want to share and split costs, please let me know.

Will do!

American Pond & Lake Management (central Indiana) may grow some bluntnose minnows and or spotfin shiners in 2016.

Bill - What do you think the minimum water depth needs to be on forage ponds in central Indiana?

Minimum water depth? Good question. It will depend on how the pond is managed. Too shallow usually results in too many weeds or algae preventing harvest or making it very difficult. If the management methods can overcome the weed problems then the other main limiting factor would be degree of winter conditions and ice cover leading to winterkill. If the forage pond is drained and the basin dried each winter then there are hatchery ponds that are only 3-4ft deep. Annual draining and drying of forage or hatchery ponds has several good benefits for managing small ponds.

I would want a year round forage pond, so I am guessing a minimum of 6 feet? Since this is hobby, I am not too worried about harvest difficulty. I am laying out jobs for a possible small TLB purchase and want to scope out realistic projects.

Forage pond of 5ft -6ft deep is good. It allows for evaporation and dry drought weather and still have decent water depth. As I mentioned you biggest challenge will be to keep it low of weeds / FA algae. Several ways to deal with plant problems.

Thanks for the advice. It appears that the machine is in my budget if the dealer ballpark is accurate. If the plants do not hurt the fish, I can deal with the inconvenience. I will try for a deep (8+ feet - central hole) with a shallower shelf around the outer edge for safety. The biggest concern will be droughts where the artesian well level drops. Pond depth will depend on the machine and my ability.

Another question for hydraulics experts. If I start a siphon from the well with a 2" poly line that will drop maybe 15-18 feet from the upper elevation of the pipe 5-8' from well water level), is there an advantage to stepping down the pipe size over the 80-100 feet before emptying into the forage pond? I was thinking of how miners did this many years ago to get more pressure. I could then maybe get a fountain effect that would aerate the pond?

So much for a new Kubota TLB. They are discontinuing the L39 due to new pollution standards. Not enough market to justify the modifications.

How about the 45?

They still make the L47, but it is out of my price range. JD used to make a 110 TLB, but they discontinued this model as well.

Just a thought...Have you checked around for a gently used one? There is a huge used market out there. Save some bucks and still get what you want? I bought a used 4WD JD 585 with FEL last spring for half what they are asking for the 700 series (no FEL) that came out to replace it. I've had it a few months now and am extremely happy with it!

Just a thought....

A used TLB or mini excavator is plan B.