I've read through some of the forums here, and some other DNR and private hatchery sites - sure is a lot of conflicting info.

I'm ready to stock a new pond. Stocked with FHM last year. It's 1/2 acre. 20 feet deep in the middle. Not any cover to speak of except rip rap along one side. West central IL (Quincy)

I'm leaning toward the classic bass/bluegill - but have read conflicting info about hybrid bluegill. Some sites say to replace 100 regular BG per acre, and others recommend not ever mixing the two.

I think I'll also add some Red ear sunfish for variety.

Here is what the local fishery offers (sizes). What do you think of this mix and the totals?

LMB 3-4" - 50
BG 2-4" - 250 (Regular & Hybrid combo total?)
RES 2-3" - 50
Albino catfish 4-6" - a few for novelty

Thanks.

tpetty:

Welcome to the forum! It all depends on what your goals are for the fishery. If you want to manage the pond for large Bluegills, then you want a LMB heavy pond (to keep the YOY BG numbers down and leave more food for the ones that can survive). If you want to have LMB larger than 14" or so, then you need to have a LOT of fish in there for them to eat.

A single LMB will need to eat approx. 10 pounds of fish to gain one pound. Usually the BG to LMB ratio is 10 up to 30:1 to get good growth from the LMB. HBG won't have enough babies to keep LMB fed.

Without cover for the BG to hide in, the LMB will have an easy time feeding on them.

Have you given any thoughts to feeding the fish pelleted feed, and stocking HBG/HSB/RES/and a few Albino CC?

What are your thoughts on wanting to stock HBG? Meaning, what qualities inherent to HBG appeal to you?

Not sure. I don't want a stunted BG pond, and thought that by replacing some of the regular with the hybrids, there would be less risk of that. Supposed to also be easier to catch?

My family isn't big on eating fish, despite my attempts. I mainly want a pond that would be fun & easy for them to catch fish, with occasionally keeping fish to eat - but not routinely.

Hybrids are aggressive, and a ball on light tackle. However, like any other species they can become conditioned by an intense program of catch and release, and dependent upon how much angling pressure they encounter, you may find them becoming more difficult to catch.

It's also true that there is far less likelihood of them overrunning your pond and becoming stunted. You will still need to do your part however, by maintaining an adequate predator base, and adding new HBG every couple of years, or as conditions dictate. I would estimate they would live to around 6-7 years in your location.

I also think your pond would benefit by keeping cover, as well as aquatic growth, to a minimum. And I would encourage you to think about adding supplemental feeding into the program......Sure, it provides for bigger fish, but it also lends itself to a fun family activity. HBG aren't usually shy around the feed trough, and daily feedings can be quite the spectacle, especially if kids are in the picture.

Remember also that feeding can lead to water quality issues, so be prepared for that. And, by using LMB in a predatory role in a location where the forage is sparse, I predict you will see some of your bass taking to pelleted feed also. And as those bass grow, it will complicate your efforts when it comes to stocking replacement HBG. You may need to source larger stockers, or find a way to cage those smaller fish to allow them to grow to a size that will avoid predation before turning them out into the pond.

With your goals, and the family not enjoying fish on the table, I'd lean more towards a hybrid pond that has limited reproduction vs. a pond with non-hybrids that have lots of reproduction. LMB especially. You have to stay on top of them and remove roughly 20# per surface acre (or slightly more) per year after about year 3 to keep their numbers in check.

So if I go with a hybrid pond, what would you recommend for numbers? I realize that hybrids will reproduce some - so do I still need some bass for control?

If no LMG, then I assume no redears either?

Mr Petty, if you want some real thrills for your family, might you consider a different type of fishery?. I live in NE IN and EVERYBODY has the BG LMB CC stocked ponds but me. I saw some pics of Cecils fish and thought what the heck, why not have an unusual pond. I was fortunate enough to become friends with Cecil and Bill Cody and they guided me to having a kid/friend magnet pond. I have YP HSB SMB and WE. Don't get me wrong but because I have two of the biggest brains on the site guiding me, I have an exceptionally good fishin hole. Last yr my 6 yr old grandson caught a HSB that probably weighed in at 3+ pounds. When he finally got it up on the bank he looked at me and said "Pa Pa can we catch some little fish?" That moment was worth all the hrs I've put into creating a great fishin hole. One of my other grandsons hooked onto a SMB that jumped 18 inches out of the water twice and we could see it could be a wall hanger. After a real battle he got it up to the beach and then as a really cool kid, said "Bob-O, That fish fought so hard he deserve to live" I just smiled and said, Shamus, your wise beyond your years.
Good luck to you with your pond

With the FHM's in there it pretty well establishes you will need some sort of predator large enough to at least eat the FHM's. They will reproduce out the wazoo, although without much structure in the pond their reproduction spawning sites may be somewhat limited.

The HBG with their larger mouth might help with that but without something to consume the FHM's they can become bait stealing little buggers. Our pond is in the stage where we just put the LMB in late last fall and are not big enough to make a dent in the adult FHM's yet. So essentially we have BG barely big enough to catch and loads of FHM's. If the FHM's find where you are throwing the baited hook in the water, the BG literally have to fight their way to get to the hook and by the time they make it there, the FHM's likely have stripped the bait off if you are using worms of small live bait. I caught a FHM by snagging it the other day as they were stealing my bait.

So with the FHM's already in there, enough predators to keep them in line will be needed, or they can make fishing aggravating.

I'm to the extent of my limited knowledge on the subject so will let people that have extensive experience get back to helping you with what you should stock. Just noticed the FHM's were already in there and thought I would relay my experience of how vastly they will reproduce and the need to have some other fish variety to remove at least a lot of their numbers.

I actually like FHM's and enjoy watching and feeding them. Just built a forage pond to raise them and stocked the initial breeders. But too large of numbers without something to control them and keep them afraid might lead to some fishing frustration.

That is a classic and precious quote!

Thank you sir. I dug my pond to have a place to walk out the door and wrestle some nice fish. Now I rarely fish cause it's more rewarding to see kids and friends lovin it.
Not to nit pic your post about FHM but I had tons of FHM in the pond (1/4 acre) and then put in 30 HSB (about 3 times what I should have) and the bait stealers were gone in about 6 weeks. If it weren't for the Spotfins that Bill Cody suggested, I'd have no forage today. Think folks should put in several kinds of forage.

Do you plan on feeding these fish? I believe that will impact stocking quantity, and to a lesser degree, the type of fish best suited to your pond. If you go with a hybrid pond - hybrid bluegills and hybrid striped bass, you will have two species that readily take feed, grow quickly, and fight hard on the end of your line. In theory, I think HSB should be able to maintain adequate pressure on a HBG pond, although I have not put this to the test myself.....yet.

If you have access to another BOW you could always try and source a few male LMB as an insurance policy while they are guarding their nests.... I like the sound of this and would probably implement it myself in your situation.

In a 1/2 acre pond with supplemental feeding, I might try 200-250 HBG, and 15-20 HSB. I might also add a half dozen male LMB, and 25-30 RES. But hang on and hopefully you'll get some other opinions in addition to what you have already received....always good to hear from as many as possible.

I would still stock some redear.

^^^^ What he said. The only thing that I might do differently is wait before stocking any LMB to see how much recruitment you have from the HBG. The HSB might take care of all the excess, if not, try another 10-15 HSB. I'd hate to see you accidentally stock one female with the male LMB's.

Do we have anyone on the forum who has hands on experience with the HBG/HSB combination?? It appears to work in theory, but has anyone put it to the test?

That is my pond setup. Haven't seen any issues with it. HSB are nice and fat and no young of the year bluegills. Going on three years.

In my 1/2 acre pond Nate recommended 300 HBG and 100 HSB. The HBG went in June '11 and the HSB went in Oct '11. Put another 100 HBG in April '13 for ones that I removed.

A 3:1 ratio of HBG to HSB? Out of curiosity, how much are you feeding every day?

I wonder if the high number of HSB is deemed necessary for accurate predation of yoy HBG, or is there another reason for stocking them? I would've never thought such numbers were necessary.

Me either but it is what Nate recommended and appears to be working well. Tonight was the first time I feed them this year (was out of town all last week) and the eat like crazy. Once they get going well I feed 1 second in the morning and 1 or 2 in the afternoon.

Sounds like HSB would do the job. I was not sure if a HBG only pond would do the job of keeping the FHM under control. They might have big enough mouths to take care of the FHM's, not sure. I was thinking another predator would be needed (like HSB for example).

Edit: I was not thinking straight and thinking of only HBG in the pond, which would not be the case. Always would need a predator to control the HBG reproduction. Which would also control the FHM. My mistake.

I'm expecting my FHM's to be gone also as soon as the LMB get big enough to eat them. LMB were about 2-3" when put in late last year and don't imagine they have had much time to grow yet, but should be starting to do so about now. I trapped a pound or two of FHM's and put some in my new forage pond. Only have about a foot of water in it so far but should get some spring rain soon to fill it up. Hopefully by the time they start spawning, which they may be already as that shallow water warmed up quick this last week. BG are my main forage fish for the LMB once they get bigger. If the forage pond does its thing, I can trap and dump FHM's over the bank into the big pond as desired. Feed the FHM's and let the FHM's feed the LMB as a supplement to the BG forage. If it all works.

A predominately hybrid pond sounds like it may work pretty well. Having to buy/stock additional fish every few years is no big deal.

I would like to have some redears to control worms and a few albino catfish for novelty.

The local fishery sells HBG - but I don't see HSB on their website. Are these harder to source?

"Fish days" (local delivery) is this weekend, so I don't have much time to order. Would it be OK to put in everything but the bass - and stock HSB later?

I'd be careful with getting fish from the fish truck. Depending on who they are, some people here have gotten other fish mixed in their order than what they wanted.

Yes it's fine to put the HSB in later.

How close are you to these guys?

http://www.hbpondmanagement.com/

HSB aren't really "hard" to locate, but not every hatchery will offer them regularly. I find that it's often easier to source HSB in the fall, at least in my area. But depending upon the size of HBG that you stock, those fish may well spawn this year. I wouldn't wait till next year to add the HSB.

What do you think for numbers for this 1/2 acre pond? I'll have to assume that I source/buy HSB in the fall.

250-300 HBG
25-50 RES

???????

I think those numbers look good. I haven't read back through the thread...are you going to feed these fish?

Haven't decided. Is feeding only needed to maximize the speed of growth?

Feeding can surely accelerate growth, but I think it depends on how much you feed....you can add some feed in a supplemental manner, or feed to satiation. The more you feed, the greater the chances you might suffer water quality issues, and of course the expense increases also. You have to realize that a bow will only support X amount of fish...carrying capacity. The more food in the water, the greater number of fish the water will support, TO A POINT.

Decreased oxygen levels and increased amounts of vegetation are two possible side effects of a feeding program. Neither one should be considered unavoidable or a deal breaker, but thought must be given to these issues in advance. Remember too that those HSB you source will probably be feed trained, and eating pellets may reduce their effectiveness at controlling HBG recruitment.....which should be a priority in my opinion.

I probably won't feed. I'm not looking to completely maximize fish size/numbers - and definitely don't want to encourage increased vegetation, since our house overlooks it.