The goal of my pond is to be a regular source of food for as much of the year as possible. Ideally, I'd like to pull 2 or 3 fish a week out for dinner year round. What species would you recommend? Yeah, I know: "It depends". :-) I live in NC. I was first thinking LMB but then realized that it would probably take a lot more acreage than I have to produce 2-3/week of eating size. So what about CC or BG as food? It seems to me that the problem is the "feast or famine" characteristic of raising fish where you have nothing when you are waiting for them to grow large enough and then when it's harvest time you have more than you can eat at once. Isn't there a way to space out the harvest so that you can eat them almost all year long once they reach a large enough size? Instead of draining the pond and harvesting all at once, why don't people harvest them slowly, only the amount that they can eat each time?

To my way of thinking, most folks with ponds harvest exactly as you describe.....a few fish here and there, rather than all at once. We have fresh fish once every week or so, and the "harvest" does not have a set ending date... the longer you leave them in the pond, the larger they will get....within reason. The fish left in the pond won't spoil if you only harvest enough for a meal once a week.

I think BG are tailor made for this style of harvest. CC work well too, but they may not reproduce, and require replenishment from time to time.

This may be an option for crappie as well depending on how many you plan to harvest and how fast you they grow and what size you need them.

LMB also give you plenty of food in my opinion even at 8-10 inches if you like to eat them.

This is pretty much what my pond has turned into now, as I will struggle to grow fish to large size due to my stocking method I followed from the fish truck, unless I am willing to start over and that is not an option at this point.

How big is your pond? That might make options easier to determine.

Also, are you going to feed, or let the pond manage itself? Feeding may change the dynamics of all this.

Why does it have to be just one species? You can utilize 2, 3 or 4 species depending on the size of your pond, whether you are looking for a self sustaining pond and if you are willing to feed your fish...

Thanks all for your replies. I haven't dug the pond yet but only have room for about 1/8 acre. I am wondering if it will be worth it if the amount of fish I can get would be an insignificant part of my diet. I would feed them but with such a small pond I'm still not sure I could raise enough to eat often, like 2-3 per week.

Size of pond and amount of food added or grown in the pond will determine how many pounds of fish it will grow per acre which will determine how many pounds of fish you can harvest each year to maintain a balance of species.

Arrow, I agree with you. I doubt that you could do that with 1/8 acre of water on a continuous basis.

Dave, I dunno. You can grow a lot of fish in a small area if you have water!

It all depends on whether he's going to feed and monitor water quality. 2-3 fish a week is 150 fish per year. I think it's doable with CC. Possibly throw some HBG in there for variety. Feeding 'em is a must to get consistent fast growth.

He'll have to monitor water quality, treating it more of an aquaculture facility than a "pond".

N8ly, what do you think?

I would also like to hear what Cecil Baird has to say on it too. I seem to remember a post not to long ago that he mentioned/alluded to what fish would be prime candidates for raising a lot of food. Kind of surprised me.... was it Trout?

I think he'd want reproduction, if I'm interpreting his posts correctly, so trout would be out as an option. What I would think would be optimal would be starting off with bluegill, possibly yellow perch too, if you can get vegetation going right away. Wait a while to stock the largemouth to give the bluegill and yellow perch a solid head start. Also could consider placing spawning habitat for channel catfish. Just know that what you catch, you definitely keep.

I'll see if I can get Cecil to weigh in here.

A pond 1/8 ac is 0.125ac and approx 5440 sq ft or 74'x74' or 60'x90' water surface thus embankments would be slightly larger due to free board (above water banks) and slope. It would have to be an aquaculture situation with feeding and aeration or well water inflow to maintain water quality and fish biomass production. The pond should be easily drained so it can be properly maintained such a drying of banks, drawdowns, periodic fish renovation, bottom liming, sludge removal, parasite control, etc.

Hi Omaha,

Yes, I was thinking of stocking only fish that would reproduce in the pond. Trout are out anyway because it is too warm here.

Hi Bill,

I was planning on feeding, aerating, liming, monitoring water quality, etc, but did not know that I would have to drain it to dry the banks, lime the bottom, and remove sludge. I guess that would be necessary for a high fish volume/aquaculture-type situation, huh?

Ok..what about tilapia? Are they legal there?


I wouldn't let draining a pond of that size deter you from your goals. Even a dugout pond could easily be drained with a trash pump.

Just a thought FWIW. Couldn't the question be answered (at least if its possible) by calculating a ponds limits for carrying capacity based on past research?

What would be the maximum carrying capacity (lbs of fish) of an unfed or fed pond with x and y dimensions be? Along with the water limitations, factoring in the constraints of inputs from the owner (time and money) along with fish species and geographical location. Once that number is calculated, simply divide it over 52 weeks.

If the carrying capacity of a fed, mid effort managed pond, in the south, with aeration, stocked with CC and BG is between 750-850lbs/acre, your weekly harvest would be:

Pond size 1/8 acre; 750/8= 93.75lbs carrying capacity

Assume 50% of the population is of harvestable size; 93.75/2=46.8lbs

Weekly harvest of; 46.8/52= .9lbs of fish

Nice break down mnfish. I think this could work if he went with a fish he could feed. If you put LMB or Crappie or WE in that small pond you would have to feed them bait fish all the time to get them to grow. So either way your feeding. I would go with BG and setup a small feeder for them and feed twice a day. Between the feed and regular bugs and such I bet you could get some nice BG out of it. Course if any spawned which I figure they will they would have another food source as I know a lot of the babies would get ate also. If I was doing it just for food and I had at least a 1 acre pond. I would try WE or Crappie just to see if I could get it to work. I love me some WE!!! Crappie too! But in a 1/8th acre pond thats not really realistic I don't think.

RC

2 to 3 tilapia a week? That's reaching a dangerous health risk level. May be a mixture of 1 tilapia every other week, combined with trout/BG every week. I can understand you may want to consume natural foraging tilapia once a week, but that's still pushing it. Farmed tilapia, I'm sorry to say, even though my family LOVE eating tilapia, we limit ourselves to one every other week, and even less for children under 12.

Arrow1-- I know you said trout was not entertaining, but for reference I found the post that I remember, Just for basic info from it, Cecil said he raises 500# of trout in a 1/10 acre pond.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post305823



Leo-- didn't know that about tilapia. Glad to be warned about it.

Leo, isn't the danger from too much tilapia or any other fish the amount of mercury or other toxins which accumulate in it from the water? I am going to have my water tested, but a water treatment guy in my neighborhood said that we have very low levels of contaminants here because it is very wooded and has never had any energy production or large-scale farming in the area.

Fish n chips, thanks for the link. Mnfish, thanks for the numbers. Maybe I'll have to lower my expectations to 1 fish per week. RC, I think that BG might be a good idea with maybe 1 or 2 LMB to keep them in check. Does anyone know how much food a bug zapper over the pond could realistically provide in a wooded area?

A pond in a wooded area poses extra problems from lots of leaf (organic) inputs which cause decreased water quality. Periodic draining during high fish production would become a more important part of the managament. Design of the pond should be for easy seining and fish removal at a low water level during draining.

Hybrid bluegill (HBG) would be a good fish to consider. They eat pellets well, tolerate warm water, and grow fast to 0.5 to 0.7 lb. I would stock with two sizes of HBG to produce some fairly quick harvestable fish and some for the second year. Periodic draining (every two yr) would solve problem of controlling the offspring. A few predator fish would help reduce the offspring and provide harvestable larger fish at each draining.
Have you read this about hybrid bluegill?
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=256325#Post256325

A few trout added and fed during the fall, winter and early spring would provide some rapid growing fish and diversity of harvestable fish. Several tilapia added when the trout die would help with fish diversity and filamentous algae control if an algae bloom is not maintained.

Arrow, any fish that's get harvested after 4 years has an endangerment of heavy metals toxicity level, which include trouts, BG, tilapia, etc.. However, it's all about the water that the species thrive in. Don't be too worry about mercury, unless, you know of the lab analytical results come back high for mercury, or any heavy metal. Mercury can be natural from existing in the soil, as well as being deposited from dust settling into the water via atmospheric deposition (primary cause is from nearby mining operation and China..yep..China).

You may be weary about DDT, or any other pesticide/herbicide from the local usages for vegetation/pests management.

As Bill mentioned, if your water can sustain a good quantity of BG, HBG, GSF, mixed in with a bit of bass for control, these will be great for your heart and liver. Trout tossed into the mix will be a lively dietary contribution.

At the same time, since you are concerned about human health, if you're feeding them pellets, make sure the pellets are not heavily reinforced with corn base. Corn will promote fish growth, but also a health factor for human consuming the fish. Corn based product decrease the omega 3 (the good) of the fish, and increase the omega 6 (the bad). This is why I encourage those who raise their fish for consumption with partial supplementation of krill based food source. Expensive, but extremely healthy for both fish and human as we climb the food pyramid. If a pond is close to or near +/-400ft of sea level, harvest and promote grass shrimps in the water body. The presence of the grass shrimp will be an invaluable resource for growth, nutrition, and vitality of the biota.

Leo, good thoughts!!

Now I have to figure out if I can find grass shrimp for our ponds........

A pond needs weeds or dense fine structured cover simular to live rood masses for grass shrimp to thrive, perpetuate, and reproduce each year.

Leo- how does one detrmine if corn is a large percent composition of a brand of fish food? Then is corn oil healthy bad or is it the carbohydrates in corn that are problematic? How does canola oil compare to corn oil health wise?

Bill and Leo, sounds like a great plan for stocking, thanks. I am 340 feet above sea level so I will look into grass shrimp, too.

Flow through it could definitely be done as in with trout. However with a static pond of only 1/8 th acre I have my doubts you wouldn't be dealing with ammonia and nitrite issues even with heavy aeration. If one could pull it off one would be more likely to do so stocking a species that does not reproduce to keep biomass down.

To determine how much corn is in a feed you have to look at the ingredient list. The ingredients are listed in order by weight so the first ingredient is the most abundant. The first 4-5 ingredients make up the bulk of the food. Here's the ingredients for Aquamax 600:

Ingredients: Fish Meal, Soybean Meal, Ground Corn, Poultry Meal, Fish Oil, Wheat Middlings, Hydrolyzed Poultry Feathers, Corn Gluten Meal, Blood Meal, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Menadione Dimethyl pyrimidinol Bisulfate, Choline Chloride, Calcium Pantothenate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphoshate (source of Vitamin C), Thiiamin MOnonitrate, Biotin, Folic Acid, Cholecalciferol, Riboflavin, nicotinic Acid, Di-Alpha Tocopheryl Acertate, Vitamin A Acetate, Ethoxyquin (A Preservative), Zinc Oxide, Cyanocobalamin, Dl-Motioning, Manganous Oxide, Ferrous Carbonate, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Slufate, Calcium Iodate, Calcium Carbonate, Cabalt Carbonate.

Unfortunately many animal feeds are used to recycle waste from the human food chain. Some of the ingredients are self explanatory and most of the ingredients at the end of the list are added for vitamin and mineral content. Fish meal is a concentrated protein power made from scraps of our fish industry. This fish meal can contain a controversial preservative called ethoxyquin which is used when transporting fish. Additional ethoxyquin is added to this food to preserve it. Fish meal can be made from what's left after fish are cleaned and processed for human consumption (guts, skin and bones) and it can also be from farmed fish which is fed a commercial diet and is lower in Omega 3's. Poultry meal is the same, scraps from chicken processed for human consumption, often low in quality and high in bone (backs and necks). Wheat Middlings are basically sweepings off the floor. Corn gluten meal is a concentrated protein source derived from corn (not gluten at all).

Most of the ingredients are inexpensive low quality sources of protein. Protein's that are animal based are much better assimilated than those that are plant based unless the food is intended for herbivores. A variety of protein sources are used to cover the amino acid profiles needed for the species the food is meant for. All extruded feeds need carbohydrates to form a kibble shape but they aren't very beneficial or nutritional to most carnivore species they are fed to. The extrusion process utilizes high heat that helps break down carbohydrates making them more bio-available.

Here is a simplified explanation of Corn vs. Canola Oil. When speaking about people, we consume way too many omega 6 fatty acids. They are inflammatory and contribute to illness and disease. Omega 3 fatty acids are the good guys, anti-inflammatory. Wikipedia explains this well: "Some medical research suggests that excessive levels of omega-6 fatty acids, relative to omega-3 fatty acids, may increase the probability of a number of diseases and depression. Modern Western diets typically have ratios of omega-6 to omega-3 in excess of 10 to 1, some as high as 30 to 1, partly due to corn oil which has an omega-6 to omega-3 ratio of 49:1. The optimal ratio is thought to be 4 to 1 or lower."
Canola oil has an O-6 to O-3 ratio of 2:1.

What Leo says is true, fish that are fed commercial feeds are not near as healthy to eat as fish that forage for natural food when referring to omega fatty acids.

I think if you used catfish and hsb on a put and take basis.Tilapia or bluegill and possibly trout over the winter you could end up quite a bit of fish for the table.This is a real grey area of pond management if you ask me,most here manage for pleasure and sport and this is leaning more towards the aquaculture aspect of things.

One thing I can tell you is you're going to have to do some research and hash out a plan that fits your goals,time and budget.If you want the production from a small area,you'll have to lean towards the farming/aquaculture side,or you can give up some production and have more of a pond so to speak.

If you want to compare feeds you have to call the company and request they email you a complete nutrient analysis of the food. Since fish require omega 3 fatty acids I think you should see this in the NA (I don't know if O-3 is listed on the bag because I've never bought a bag). A guaranteed analysis is shown on the bag for some components and this is different from the actual nutrient analysis.

You can figure out the carbohydrate content by adding the major components of the food (protein%, fat%, ash%, and moisture%) and subtracting from 100%. Ash content is something that companies don't always want to tell you but it can be significant (ie.10%), a higher Ash content indicates a lower quality food. Moisture will be around 10%.

Note: the protein percent in a NA is crude protein and not digestible protein and you can't distinguish how much of the total protein is attributed to animal sources vs. plant sources. Purina isn't fond of giving out technical information and they will often cop out and say "that's proprietary information" for certain things. (I have never been able to find out ethoxyquin levels from Purina.)

If you have trouble getting a complete Nutrient Analysis from a company there are labs that will analyze a food sample for you if you really want to know.

If you aren't picky about what species you're eating, common carp are hard to beat... My father's best friend uses common carp as a major food source of his. When grown in clean waters, they are actually good tasting and not as bony as some think.

Loretta - thanks for the good information about oils and fish food ingredients.
Arrow1 has a steep learning curve ahead of him. A producdtion pond and a well managed garden both require quite a bit of work depending on one's goals.

CJ,they are quite crazy about carp in Europe and I must say I was pleasantly surprised when I tried it.The best I've had was called crucian carp (in Bulgarian) that they nicknamed big mouth carp.Being that it was a filter feeder and not a bottom feeder it had a very nice taste and from what I'm told it's similar to the Asian invasive carp we have here in flavor.

Scott, I agree that he might be able to do it part of the year but not year around. To do it, the stars would have to line up pretty well plus he would likely need aeration and feed.

Yes, I have a steep learning curve which includes understanding what is realistic. I greatly appreciate the collective wisdom and knowledge in this forum.

Dace, definately aeration and feed. I've found that stocking trout allows you to catch trout all Fall, Winter and Spring until the water warms up temp wise, then the BG/LMB start biting.

I think the pellet trained LMB in my pond are teaching the non-pellet trained LMB to eat pellets. I caught one today that was not tagged, but it was caught on a Stubby Steves orig pellet, #10 hook and 2# test. I'll bet it was pushing 4#.

Could a % of your tags be coming out of your tagged bass Scott?

Good question. I'll be targeting the feed trained LMB this year to re-catch them, weigh and measure them. They're tagged with numbered floy tags, so we'll see how many are re-caught.

As some of you pointed out, my goals are closer to aquaculture. So I am wondering if I could use my 1/8-acre pond to raise only feed fish, such as minnows and/or bluegills and raise my aquaculture fish, such as LMB or perch, in an aquaculture tank. I know that normally people will stock a few LMB with bluegills to keep the BG population in check so they don't become stunted. But as feed fish, would I care if they become stunted? It seems to me that maybe more stunted BGs as feed might be preferable to fewer, larger BGs. Does anyone have any idea how many BGs (albeit stunted BGs) I might expect in a 1/8-acre pond if there are no predators in the pond, they are allowed to reproduce at will, and the pond is fertilized?

... and aerated. I realize it may come down to food availability and ammonia/oxygen levels, but I'm just trying to get a ballpark figure.

i started a small aquaponics system a few years ago,, it grew into filling my basement..i've got an 8' kiddie pool with around 150 fish.. i bought 120 3" yp last spring and most are harvestable.. about 50 tilapia from last year are ready as well..i've been using a mix of aquamax feed, but mostly high protein, supplementing with crayfish, producing several hundred a year easily..tilapia have had a couple of hatches, but only 9 or 10 escaped the yp (and a couple bg) into the sump tank..i've got a smaller setup that i have 150 or so rosy red minnows, but they grow to slow..so they'll be fed to the big tank after the last hatch grows a bit
so my smaller setup will be to start 50 or so at a time, and move them aas they grow
i'm pretty close to my goal of being able to get 1 meal a week from my basement.. just replanted the growbeds after spring cleanout, topping them off with more gravel (i hauled 3+ yards down there!)

Keith, I would like to start aquaponics as well. If your kiddie pool is 3 ft deep, that would be about 1,100 gal which is about 7.5 gal/fish at 150 fish. I've read that you can go up to 3 gal/fish which would be over 350 fish in your pool. Are you limited by grow bed space? So are the yp and tilapia your eating fish and you are feeding them aquamax, crayfish, and minnows?

Unfortunately I don't know much yet about fish. From what I've read, tilapia are the easiest to raise but my impression is the nutritional content is not that great. Bass, perch, and BG from what I can tell are similar nutritionally. People say that BG tastes good so what I don't understand is why bother raising perch or bass which are predatory and therefore more expensive, instead of BG to eat, unless the goal is sport fishing?

Well one reason right off the top of my head why you would want LMB is because you need something in there to help keep your BG population in check or you will have a bunch of small BG in the 4 inch range. You can't catch enough once they start breeding. The bass are an important part of keeing them BG in check so they too can grow to decent size for eating.

Both these fish. BG and LMB kind of go together. Almost a must if you have one you need the other. You won't need to feed your bass they will eat the BG and should be just fine. You just have to figure out how many bass you need to help control your population.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong!

RC

Without a predator, the BG will overspawn and possibly wind up with an oxygen shortage. You can easily seine a bunch out and do something with them. Aeration will certainly help but you can only get a certain amount of life in any space. It's called biomass.

the bottom of the tank is 8', the top is closer to 6', it holds about 700 gallons..i base my fish load on the amount of filtration i have... i'll be adding to the filtration this year (following cecil's threads closely!) and should be able to bump my stock up to around 200 fish safely.
i've got my airpump hooked up to a UPS battery in case the lights go out.. still working on beefing up the batteries..
tilapia need warm water.. i was lucky to get mine through the winter, the water got into the 40's.. only lost 3 or 4..before i started a heater up in the basement.
i like that the yp and bg keep the tilpia in check... i can set up a breeder tank for more tilapia if needed..and the crayfish i'm using have been multiplying (i would say breeding, but marmokrebs don't breed.. they are parthenogenetic) like crazy.. i've put 40 or so larger crays into the pool (as well as a couple hundred small ones that got eaten pretty quickly)
regarding nutrition.. what you get out of an ap system will entirely depend on what you put into it (nutrient wise) - i have noticed that my farm raised perch seem to be a little bit "fattier", but taste delish