Any experiences or opinions of stocking CNBG in NE Ohio? If yes, I am not aware of any sources for this fish. Any guidance is much appreciated!

Thanks - Jeff

It's not recommended. They would have to be scourced from the south. You could always try an experiment..

Wouldn't make it through the winter in Northeast Ohio.

I've read on here they won't make it in illinois let alone NW Ohio

CB1, I am curious as to why they would make it thru NE Ohio?

I would not suggest stocking CNBG that far north. Some die in my mid - MS ponds when we have ice over (1 inch ice) for a couple days. Plenty of cases where they die out in KY. Even if they live they will not grow to their potential IMO.

Sorry that was a typo. I corrected it. Using an iPad causes me to do that.

Coppernose even die in the south when it gets colder than usual.

Ditto.

The wheels were spinning there for a second..

BGK I can see those wheels spinning - hey I can grow some even bigger killer BG !!!!

I'm not convinced that CNBG have the potential to outgrow northern strain. Faster growth, okay....larger? I'm not sure.

Tony, I am trying the CNBG here. I don't care if they get bigger,I just love their body shape. They were stocked in 2011 so this year should tell me the outcome.

Plus they are so pretty in sunlight!!

Wish my wife could say that about me.

Same thing goes for Florida bass out of their native range or temp preferences. Both species come originally from peninsular Florida.

From my experience you're better off using a species or strain that is native to your region.

However you'd be surprised how many bluegills, bass, redears, and hybrids are shipped to the north from the big fish farms in Arkansas and Alabama. They aren't coppernose or Florida strain bass, but I know one supplier up here that makes dozens of trips down there to pick them up as it's more profitable to buy them wholesale than to produce them locally.

Ken I would be very interested in hearing about the CNBG's progress.....please keep us informed!

Va.Fish and Game stocked Fl. bass in the new lakes in the last 20 years. They produced many over 10 and several over 16 lbs. but as all new lakes the size has fallen over the years. Until they stocked the Floridas,a 8 lb.bass was a big one. If you would like to read about this,just google,Conner and Briey Creek Lakes.That is why I will try to grow out some in my forage pond in the future(trying to do gill-crackers this year).

Tony,Travis is going to be doing the heavy lifting on that pond, I am sure he will post some pictures(I don't know how).

In their range CNBG will outgrow regular BG both rate and size. There is a lot to growth rates. Much more than a simple concept. Outside their range CNBG will not outgrow reg BG and like all fish under stress they will first not meet their potential and then die as stress increases.

Ewest, how do we know that CNBG will surpass northern BG in ultimate size? What is the ultimate size of either one? Perhaps I am making it a simple concept, but assuming each fish endured an optimum environment for it's particular sub-species, which one has the potential to grow the largest? I've seen photos of 3-1/4 lb CNBG, but I've also seen 3-1/4 lb native fish....The current Indiana state record.

I'm aware that there are genetic inconsistencies that allow certain individuals to grow larger than others in the same year class, and I'm willing to acknowledge the possibility that CNBG might outgrow northern strain AS A WHOLE, or in general.

But....in a rare circumstance where the stars aligned perfectly, would the potental be there for a exceptional northern fish to achieve the same size as an exceptional CNBG?

That's why I have a problem with definitive statements that claim CNBG will outgrow BG in size. Usually perhaps, but I'm not willing to say always.

I agree.. I think CNBG will out grow northerns initially but I think Northerns will outgrow them in the long run do to longer life span..

Are the BG at Richmond Mill CNBG or Northern strain BG? Seems pretty far North for CNBG...but those fish are exceeding 3 lbs - really, how much larger could anyone expect/want a BG to grow? It's already freakishly/wonderfully almost unnatural! If they are CSBG, how do they survive so far North do you think? Constantly flowing water moving through the BOW keep temperatures up enough?

One of the things we should consider is "What is the average large or top end size for each one?" Yes the record weight of northern bluegill can be 3 lbs but this is a very rare occurrence. But in general the CNBG out grows the northern stain bluegill. A similar situation occurs with the Florida and northern strains of largemouth bass. As my example - the CNBG in Richmond Mill commonly get to 2.5 to 3 lbs as testimony by numerous pictures. Let's see a situation where northern bluegill are commonly growing to the sizes of 2.5 to 3 lbs.

RM has CNBG. It may also have some regular BG. The big ones caught there are CNBG. CNBG and reg BG have the same life span and reproductive ability.

I've been looking around...I could've swore that Bruce told me that both northern strain and Coppernose were in Richmond Mill, OR Aaron Matos's ponds, and were growing to tremendous sizes equally. Maybe I imagined it, but I'll keep digging.

I don't have the pics but check all the state records bluegills for northern states..

One has to remember that a state record fish is not a commonly occuring idividual and not even the rare individual. State record fish are just that state records and they very rare or exceptional fish only caught once in a great while. The 2.5-3 lb CNBG in Richmond Mill are fairly common individuals which is a good indication that the very rare or exceptional CNBG in Richmond Mill could be 3.5-3.6 lbs or even 3.8-4.0 lbs.

If you saw that Indiana state record then you know it was a hybrid. At least that's what a local biologist told me that witnessed it.I don't think it's fair to compare a hybrid to a regular strain bluegill. I know ponds where I can catch 1 lb. hybrids all day but you rarely see that with regular strain bluegills. Not sure we know where it originally came from do we? For all we know it was one of those hybrids from Arkansas.

I've fished for northern strain regular bluegills all my life up here in Indiana and mounted some big ones for customers. Can's say I've ever seen or mounted one bigger than 11 1/2 inches or 1 lb. 7 1/2 oz. which was the weight of one from my pond just a few weeks ago.

Cecil makes a good point. Many of the older records for northern state record bluegill were actually hybrid bluegill not pure strain bluegill and commonly caught from ponds.

Bill,

Some of the more progressive states have a separate record for hybrid bluegills and even pond caught fish. No surprise mine does not. LOL

I think Richmond mills is an exception can you catch those CNBG anywhere else like Richmond they are extensively managed and fed..

I found what I was thinking of...and it involves 2-3 lb northern strain BG. It's over on BBG. I hate posting links to other folk's stuff on a different forum without asking them first, so I'll wait until I can contact them.

Sp,shoot me a pm or message at BBG, telling me the names too, if you don't mind. I never BG fish but since I had the flu last week,I have been looking at many pictures on that site. Overall, you have the best sizes of all that I have seen. Simply outstanding fish,ponds and family!!!

I've seen the mount, last year I interviewed the angler who caught it back in 1972, talked to two state biologists about it, have copies of all the information the state has on file regarding this fish, and have seen unpublished photos taken right after it was caught... it looks like the real deal. (non hybrid) It was also caught in a location different from the official DNR account: LOTS of mis-information where this fish is concerned.

Can you post those pics sprk?

Nevermind misread thought you had unpublished pics

Ken I sent you a pm. And thanks for the kind words!

It's easy to make a hybrid look like a regular bluegill sprkplug considering a taxidermist has to paint the colors back into the fish. I've done it on a occasion although the mouth size tends to a give away.

I tend to believe it's a hybrid especially since a biologist I know witnessed the live fish vs. the mounted version.

Anyone have a picture of the IN state record "bluegill?? Post and we will 'dissect it".

From what I've read online there are no published pics Bill, i didn't really dig into it though..

Cecil would you mind telling me who that biologist was? Jed Pearson told me he remembered the photo of the fish hanging in the forestry office when he worked down at Greene Sullivan where the fish was caught, but he was not there to witness the actual fish.

He did provide the name of the biologist who he thought might have identified it, but this person moved out of state many years ago and I have not been able to locate them.

I saw the photos before the taxi got to work on the fish....which by the way was Archie Phelps down in Alabama....and from someone who raises HBG, I could find no evidence of GSF. I daresay I have probably researched this particular fish more thoroughly than any sane person ever would...to the point that I pored over maps and records in the forestry office for hours, in order to determine the age of the BOW the fish came from, the stocking records for that particular BOW, and whether or not the pit that produced the fish had ever been restocked, or drained and re-mined.

The last time I saw it, the mount itself was hanging on the wall behind the bar in Sparky's Doghouse, in Mt.Summit. It's been repainted at least once over the last 40 years.

By the way...if you talk to Jed, ask him if he remembers talking to the persistent guy who was researching what it takes to produce giant Bluegill in his own ponds, and figured researching the state record might shed a little light on the subject. I haven't talked to him in a couple of years, but he was very helpful and I appreciated that.

There are no published pics. The only thing I have is a scan of the newspaper article from 1972, and it leaves a lot to be desired. I'm trying to find it, but I think it's on the computer out in the shop. I'll check tomorrow.

I cannot find the photos...but I did find the e-mail that accompanied them...I'll keep looking.

---
From: Smyth, Jamie L. <JSmyth@dnr.in.gov>
Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 2:29 PM
Subject: RE: State record Bluegill
To: Tony Livingston


Hey Tony. There is no official biologist report that accompanies the state
record bluegill. The fish is not a hybrid, as it was most certainly
recognized by a biologist to be the state record bluegill. Attached you
will find a photo of the fish, the actual entry form submitted for the state
record, and part of an article from the Indy Star about the fish. That is
all that I found in the file. If you need anything further, don't hesitate
to contact me.



Thanks,





*Jamie L. Smyth*

*Public Access Coordinator*

*Division of Fish and Wildlife*

*402 West Washington St, Rm W273*

*Indianapolis, IN 46204*

*Ph: 317-234-7629*

*Fax: 317-232-8150*

Sprkplug,

Interesting... The biologist that told me he had seen it and it was a hybrid was Jed Pearson. I don't want to cause any trouble (I know Jed is a member here), but that's the way I remember it. Maybe my memory is faulty...

This was when I brought in a potential tie for the world record pumpkinseed for him to identify. One of the other biologists coming in late looked at it from 20 feet away and dismissed it as a pumpkinseed hybrid. The guy was quite arrogant. Jed took the time to key it out and everything, and believed it was a true pumpkinseed. I've always respected Jed and known him for quite a few years. I've actually worked for the INDNR as a biologist aid and did a couple of creel surveys. I eletroschocked with Jed one night back when I did a an outdoor column for a local newspaper.

BTW IGFA said they would make a category for a hybrid pumpkinseed if it indeed was a hybrid, and I commented to Jed that the INDNR didn't have a category for pumpkinseed and didn't differentiate between bluegills and hybrid bluegills, when it came to the state record. That's when i recall Jed saying he has seen the state record bluegill and it was a hybrid.

IN regards to the pumpkinseed, since the biologists disagreed, and the angler couldn't afford a DNA test, the pumpkinseed or pumpkinseed hybrid never made it into the record books.

I did have a biologist at Illnois Natural History that was an expert in pumpkinseed hybrids volunteer to do an DNA test for free. However when I tried to contact him to take him up on the offer he never answered the phone or his emails. Apparently he backed out. My theory is his superiors told him no probably due to the cost or not wanting to get involved in fish records.

I sure hope you can find a picture. I could also tell you if I looked at the mount. If it's a hybrid the mouth gape will be quite larger compared to a regular bluegill.

http://bigbluegill.com/profiles/blogs/darren-mays-state-record

Anybody volunteering to go over to Sparky's Doghouse, in Mt.Summit and after a few brews make a mouth gape measurement of the infamous fish? Our buddy Sunil would do it in a heartbeat. Don't for get to measure the length of the upper maxillary.

That's illinois record I believe Cecil

I'm digging...I remember that I was sure it was a hybrid when I saw the newspaper photos. But then I found a couple of color photographs of the fish supposedly taken on the day it was caught and weighed in at the bait shop, and they told a different story. I was hoping it was a HBG, as a 3 pound + fish would lend credence to the commonly held belief that hybrids have the potential to grow larger than regular BG. I wish that were true, but I've never seen a verifiable 2 lb HBG....let alone one the size of this fish. Once I saw the better photos, my hopes deflated.

That's it, I'm headed out to the shop to search that computer.

The rarity of a regular bluegill to get the size of 3 pounds and locating information about regular northern bluegill at 3 lbs reinforces the fact the northern bluegill weighing 3 pounds are real 'freaks' and the CNBG of 2.5-3 lbs do usually grow bigger than regular bluegill which brings us full circle back to the original topic of CNBG generally grow larger than pure strain northern bluegill. Somebody please go out this summer and catch a regular northern bluegill weighing 36 to 40 ounces.

Finally found it. The light border that appears on the fins is what initially got me excited about the possibility that this was a hybrid. But the border wasn't present on the other photos at all. It looked like a northern fish. Sorry about the quality, I could not talk the owner of the other photos into turning loose of them. This is the best one I have. I don't know the status of the fish in this photo...it almost looks like it's mounted on something?

It has such a terrible glare on it in this photo.

Okay...just got the go-ahead on the big northern strain posted over at BBG. You'll need to read through all seven pages to get the details and see all the photos.

I believe the angler who caught those fish may look familiar....

http://bigbluegill.com/profiles/blogs/giant-bluegill-using-the-modica-spooning-method

To me the light color on the fin margins is typical of a fish that has been held in one of those round wire fish baskets and the fins got beat to death on the wire. Also of a fish that is recently dead and sloshed around in one of those baskets.

Don't forget that a hybrid could also be a BGxRES cross. Wiht the older records, I'd suspect that before I'd suspect a BGxGSF cross.

I go back to the days when DD1 and I considered BGs as bait….

Then I discovered CNBG and fell in love with them.
It’s the fight in the fish for me …. they would be dangerous if grew as large as a LMB .
I love their coloration and fast growth – I can grow them to a pound in one year – I have a goal of two pounders and goal was within sight summer before last when drought shrunk 2 acre pond to 1 acre and had a fish kill.
I found a couple of big male 11+ incher survivors and upped my gentics with OTS CNBG last fall so I may reach my goal with new aeration systems for drought insurance.

I believe that FireIsHot has 2 pounders in his lake at the present time and Highflyer is within reach in his 12+ acre lake.

I would not have the patience to wait 2-3 years to grow a 1-pound BG and would be playing with my favorite HSB – ponds are fun.
George

Pics form RM



Darren Simon with a two pound bluegill, his personal best.



Alan Warren and Bruce Condello pose with some mighty nice bluegills.



A very interesting thing happened. Bruce caught the fish on the left. It weighed just over 1 lb, 13 oz. That's huge. As he looked, it wasn't a bluegill. It had several attributes of redbreast sunfish. He and Aaron used an iPhone to look up the North Carolina state records for redbreast and this fish was 2 oz. larger. He brought the fish in, both Dr. Willis, a fisheries biologist, and I looked at it. We agreed it wasn't a redbreast, but that it had attributes to both redbreast and bluegill. We kept the fish and Bruce wanted to weigh it and submit for a potential state record...even though we didn't know what the fish was.
As I thought more about it, this fish appears to be about 5 years old. It looks like a hybrid cross between a bluegill and redbreast. As I thought about it, Richmond Mill Lake was mainly empty during the time this fish was spawned. The conclusion I have tentatively arrived is that in the spring of 2005, while the lake was still low, the redbreast were spawning. As the fish were doing what they do, a "sneaker" bluegill came in, dumped some of his milt onto the female redbreast's eggs and ran off. It makes good sense and is a logical explanation.
The record was submitted and the fish is currently alive and being kept at Aberdeen Tackle, in Aberdeen, NC.

O.K my bad.

I've mounted a 13 inch 2 pound plus hybrid.

Are you sure that's the fish? Doesn't look three pounds to me.

That's it. Here are the specs:


Cecil, you made my day with your remark about having seen a 2 pound plus HBG....

Cecil, I thought you might appreciate this email I received when I was pressing for details regarding the record fish's lineage, and was suggesting that the fish might indeed be a hybrid:

, Jamie L. <JSmyth@dnr.in.gov>
1/11/11

to me
Considering it was close to 40 years ago we may never know that answer. Given today’s technology, we certainly wouldn’t let a hybrid bluegill take over the bluegill state record. Good luck on digging anything up.

Jamie

Today 's technology? I doubt the INDNR would go to the trouble and expense of a DNA test. I believe Jamie is blowing roses you know where.

I was interested in aging the state record pike I mounted and was handed a sheet explaining how to do it by using the clithreum bone. If I recall they hadn't done it themselves.

BG X CNBG might be an option in OHIO

I knew you'd get a kick outta' that Cecil!!

So.....did anyone check out Bruce's giant northern strain in the link I posted?? Two locations, both with CNBG and northerns, and both equally large.....

Sorry I don't chime in more frequently.. but, I'll go out on a limb and give my humble opinion on northern vs. cnbg in a warm pond. Bruce can ping in too since he's seen this and watched my fish grow..

My pond was a bit of a 'control' group for this, as it's was smaller and managed heavily. I put in both northern and cnbg.

The fish were in identical conditions, and I fully expected that the cnbg would outgrown northerns in a hot pond (I'm in Phoenix, no one has a warmer pont than I do). Who would expect anything else?

I've grown both to freakish 3lbsish, and I'll admit I'm still in the process of figuring out which will grow the *biggest*... but in my experience, in an identical environment, there has been little to no difference in growth rates, condition, or health. They both get huge at similar rates with identical conditions (warm water, long growing season, good food). I actually think that my northerns were growing a little faster than the cnbg overall and the biggest fish (see image) are natives. This is true of my original stockers and offspring up to second generations)

Why? IMHO I think the main difference in growth rates and ultimate size dependent upon forage and ideal growth conditions (water temps, growing season, etc).

To the OP, natives can grow fast and the cnbg's aren't optimal for Ohio. Feed 'em. Oh yeah, they'll grow faster if you're not in Ohio.

Man those fish are beautiful..!!!!

Thanks Aaron, I love what you've been able to accomplish out there! And appreciate you chiming in with the success you've had with the northern strain. I had hoped you would see this post and weigh in.

esshup, I took the pic out, was that it? it was fine on my computer
sprkplug, thanks for the kind words!

Aaron were your BG from Bruce ?

Aww...the pic of Bruce with the giants is gone? It looked fine on my computer also?

Now we need photos of the giant northerns from North Carolina.....

From the guys who created the Tiger Bass – The coppernose bluegill grow faster and eat pelleted feed more readily than the common bluegill. With proper management and stocking, it is possible for them to reach sizes in excess of 2 pounds.

From the largest Fisheries Mgt group in the SE :When put on an intensive supplemental feeding program, coppernose bluegill commonly grow faster and larger than native bluegill in small impoundments. This is partly due to their aggressive feeding behavior.

From - Performance Comparison between Coppernose and Native Texas Bluegill Populations by Prentice and Schlechete ( a peer reviewed scientific study)

Coppernose bluegill were significantly larger than the 2 Texas types (regular bluegill and west Texas bluegill ) in all scenarios tested.
They also cite evidence of the same results in So Cal waters.

So what are we to make of the equally large northerns in two different locations? I realize that published studies all claim CNBG to grow larger, and I agree that generally speaking that may be true. However, a fish-in-the-hand, EACH HAND... is worth two studies on the desk in my opinion.

This is why I have a problem with making definitive statements where ponds and fish are concerned. There always seems to be instances or circumstances that differ from the conditions encountered in those studies, or variables not previously allowed for, that despite all the careful planning and rigorous testing, leave room for differing results in real world conditions.

How long ago was it that we recommended stocking BG before LMB in northern ponds where a balanced environment was desired? Not so long. That was the accepted, recognized practice. Now, we know that doing so may lead to stunted BG. Newer, more updated information contradicted what was the norm for so long.

I'm not trying to argue, I just believe that the possibility exists for northern strain to match CNBG if conditions are right.

Aaron:

Removing the pic narrowed up the thread on my computer. If others didn't have a problem with the thread getting super wide, go ahead and throw it back up. It's worth it seeing a huge CNBG and Northern BG side by side.

If I remember correctly, I believe Bruce said that both of those fish were standard, northern strain fish....Awesome specimens!

Here's the pic again... IIRC this is one of each..

ewest, northerns weren't from Bruce.. we're still working on that.. just random bg's that are my original stockers.. and my f1 and f2 were growing faster.. and I have pure northerns, 'hybrids', and pure cnbg...

And I have no dog in this hunt saying the northerns grew faster/bigger.. I NEVER thought they would since I read all the articles and was giddy to get my hands on CNBG.. I almost didn't put them in; but I just wanted the diversity.

Accidentally, I have fish that look like the below pic.

As usual I guess - IT ALL DEPENDS!!!

Nice work Arron. Your efforts in a fairly controlled environment give good insight for bluegill growth possibilities. Thanks a lot for sharing your work with us for this discussion. Readers - notice the great fish food producing habitat in the shallow water over Bruce's shoulder.

Were your bluegill collected from Arizona or from an out of state fish farm? Did you stock males and females?

A few more pics for your enjoyment..

Bill, out of state fish farms... agree, it all depends!! this was only my experience.. in my first pond.. I'm learning what I can do.. and ignoring what I can't...

Those fish are just incredible. All of them.

Just reading along and enjoying..

I'll chime in with more detail later, but in every pond or lake that I've fished that had Northern strain bluegill, and CNBG, I've seen virtually identical Wr's and high-end sizes. Intuitively, this is not what I expected..but it is what I encountered.

Good glory did Aaron ever figure something out right - I'm beyond amazed and impressed.

LOL!

I looked back at my notes I've kept over 14 different fishing days at RM. Dozens of 2-lb bluegill, and 3 over 3 pounds. Almost 50-50 of northern vs. coppernose.

Actually looking at the 1.5-2.0 lb fish, of which I've caught hundreds (literally), the CNBG outnumber the Northern bluegill almost 5:1

But in the truly massive 2+ pound fish, the standard/northern strain had just as many representatives as the coppers.

...that's weird. I've never really pondered that. Wonder what it means...

Obviously I didn't do any DNA testing, but here's the numbers from my Richmond Mill data.

303 bluegill from 1.5-1.99 pounds 250 CNBG and 53 Northern strain
37 bluegill from 2.0-2.99 pounds 19 CNBG and 18 Northern strain
3 bluegill from 3.00 + pounds 2 CNBG and one that was probably northern.

Maybe Bob can tell us what the heck that means. I'm clueless. I want to say that there's fewer Northern strain overall, but they occupy a very slightly different niche than the CNBG, which could mean that they can exploit some of the abundant natural food sources a little better.

I'd like to feature this photo on BBG.com

Can you post it there, please? I'm fascinated by these historical photos.

Big coppernose.

Big female and male coppernose bluegill.

Big male northern strain bluegill. Here's that 32+ ouncer you wanted, Bill.

Are Northerns and Coppernose stocked at the same rate in Rimchmond?

Aaron, those are the nicest set of BGs I have ever seen.
Is the dark color come from clear water?
Mine are always lighter color from turbid water and the colors pop out with bright copper color - can you maipulate holding tank to bring out distinguishing CNBG confirmation traits?
I have trouble postively IDing your CNBG - did they come from Overton?
Any documentation on length/width/thickness?
You have set the bar pretty high - good job!
George

Would it be approrpriate for me to ask the source of the original CNBG stocked in Richmond Mill Lake?
Some appear to me to be intergrades?

Here's what we did to stock Richmond Mill Lake.
Coppernose bluegills from three sources including one from Alabama and two from Arkansas.
Northern strain bluegills from two sources, one in Arkansas and one in Oklahoma.
Redear sunfish from Arkansas.
Some could certainly be intergrades. Some are not. Some are coppernose. Some are northerns. When I electrofish, we always capture some small ones with that telltale bright colored copper tail. As they grow, the colors turn darker for some reason.
The water in Richmond Mill Lake is tannic, rich tea-color and fast flowing. Sunfish in there are always dark.

Bob, I know that you have trusted sources for your CNBG.
I also know that mixed with northern BG you will get some 1st generation intergrades.
I just don't see the pure grade characteristics of pure Floridaa CNBG that I have examined over the past 8 years of probably thousands of pure CNBG - even with dark color.

I don't thik it make a whit of a difference with the size and quality of those fish you guys have grown.....
George

Aaron, those are some monsters! I'm jealous!!!!

Bob,George:

Are the colors typically lighter of the coppernose gills in clear water? I ask this because this thread now has my gears turning.

Now that I have three recirculating system tanks running going on five, I could get my hands on some coppernose from Arkansas as one of my aquaculture directors picks up northern strain bluegills and other species several times a year down there. I'm sure he could pick me up some coppernose.

I still can't produce enough 1 pound and over bluegills to fill the demand for my taxidermy market and the controlled conditions of recirculating tanks are looking better and better. The demand is so great I recently sold a disfigured 1 lb. 7 1/2 ounce fish for $75.00. If it wouldn't have had parasite issues on one of the pectoral fin bases I could have easily asked for $100.00.

Typically when I post fish for sale they are sold out anywhere withing four minutes to that day. Howeveer they frown on dark fish as they don't paint well, which was my first question in this post.

Harvesting fish from tanks would be a breeze too vs. seining a 3/4 acre pond. Not as much fun but...

Bob and others should be along fairly soon to provide second opinions. CB1 - the water in Richmond Mill is tannin stained and I think fairly dark. I don't know if the concentration of stain has been tested, but someone may have Secchi disk readings?. Fish from dark brown tannin stained water typically have pretty dark hues due to the chromatophores adjusting to match the surroundings. Arron's fish lived in a black liner pond, thus their dark hues. I doubt the darkness of the colors are any different genetically between regular BG or CNBG.

Cecil CNBG do just like regular BG wrt color and water. They are not the same color but water /light effects them the same way. Here are a couple from typical pond water

Thanks Bill and Eric. I know Bob said the same but I just wanted to make sure I understood that. I mounted some Florida Coppernose once that were black as coal. Again perhaps from stained water?

Ewest, those are some beautiful fish. One of my best friends(deceased) caught 29 one day that weighted 22 lbs.. They looked about like yours.

Cecil anytime you know someone looking to buy 1lb BG for 100/apiece call me I got plenty too sell

CB1 When you paint large CNBG note the thin band of white on the margins of soft dorsal, caudal and anal fin. The dorsal spines are often white tipped. Interesting feature.

Actually a one pound bluegill does not go for $100.00 -- more like $40.00. For $100.00 the fish has to be at least 1 lb. 7 oz. with no flaws -- as in no scales missing, no fin flaws etc. For any flaws that price goes down. Unfortunately the older and larger the fish the more likely there will be a flaw.


I tried selling fish from another farm once and it wasn't worth the trouble. I have to grade the fish as in furs to determine the price, and if I get them frozen I have to thaw them out again.

Many states don't allow the sale of gamefish unless they come from a commercial farm anyway. Some don't allow the sale of gamefish at all, unless they are for stocking. Some only allow it with catfish or other commercial fish like hybrid striped bass or trout.

Some states like Texas require the buyer to purchase a "Texas Fin Fish Import License" and the seller even if he is out of state a "Texas Retail Fish Dealer License" which is $75.00 and $70.00 accordingly last I checked.

This refers to "Commercially Protected Fishfish" which are Largemouth Bass, Smallmouth Bass, Hybrid Striped Bass, Black Crappie, and Walleye. Needless to say I don't sell any of the above species to Texas. Illinois wants me to buy a $100.00 permit to sell dead fish. No fish sales there either.

I have the laws in writing inquiring about legality from the states that would respond (some won't) to cover my you now what.

I had a special agent in Wisconsin tell me he won't respond as, "I was going to break the law anyway." Fortunately I was able to get the information I needed off the Internet from their game laws.

You can always count on the government to figure out how to cut in on the action under the guise of protecting fish and wildlife. I tend to be skeptical as I've seen agencies that make the rules and enforce them break their own rules.

Thanks for the offer though.

I've seen that. The ones I got in to mount were long dead so it must have faded out.

Yeah I'd have too say I've never seen a 1.5lbr that was flawless alot of mine have grubs..

Same here.

I'm going to start raising more yellow perch and bluegills comletely inside vs. just in the winter in my recirculating tanks and see how big I can get them and how fast. I can set the water temp whatever I want it to be year around.

I can raise up to 500 lbs. of bluegills or yellow perch in a 2000 gallon 12 foot Intex pool with a a couple of RBC's, a center drain, and whatever mechanical filtration I choose. This without adding pure oxygen or using ozone.

I've got two high schools raising bluegills for me inside for the winter now. I supply the the equipment and food and the fish. One of my directors said it sounds like a smart business plan if they don't kill the fish! LOL

Cecil, sorry I missed your post.
I would carefully research availability of pure Florida CNBG from Arkansas fish farms.
PM sent.

I agree with Cody and Ewest about BG color changes and cream-colored fin tips.
Do you think it would be feasable to place a few of the RM lake BG monsters in a clear water tank and see if the dark colors change – it’s very difficult for me to distinguish pure CNBG characteristics of the dark fish.

The second photo in Eric’s post is my CNBG, and the otherCNBG photo are several generations old – Overton is now selecting brood stock that have redder tails and fewer and broader vertical stripes.
http://www.overtonfisheries.com/StockerFish/SportFish/CoppernoseBluegill/tabid/68/Default.aspx

George

Kenc thanks - one of those fish was George's , one was mine from George and the other was from Auburn Fisheries Dept. There are a lot of very good CNBG pics and text here.

One Nice Coppernose -


http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...1&site_id=1





CNBG variation Fla vs Ark -


http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...1&site_id=1

I attempted some collection of our native CNBG here in NE FL earlier this week. Long story short, I have one in a five gallon bucket that I kind of forgot about. We had our winter last weekend as it got down to 30 degrees. I am not sure how cold the water in the bucket actually got but it usually is not far off from the air temp. It was not below freezing for long in the early AM and the max temp for the day was about 54. The fish was alive and well when I remembered and checked on it in the late morning and the next day. I was concerned the fast drop and cold temps experienced in the bucket would be much colder than any lake of pond would get but it didn’t seem to bother it...

OH YEA, the bucket was left outside

I talked with one of my board of directors yesterday that runs a fish farm in Birdseye, Indiana and he can get me some coppernose bluegills from Malone and Sons later in the spring if I want some. I just have to decide if they are worth the expense for the indoor systems and there is an advantage vs. the northern bluegills.

One thought I had was if they will stay indoors if there may be any advantage in producing an F1 cross in the future. Thoughts?

Are you absolutely sure the fish is a coppernose?

Cecil that would be a worthy experiment.
A couple of my largest BGs early on were what believed to be a F1 cross between native BGs that my grandsons transferred from a neighbor pond into brand new pond stocked with pure Florida CNBG.
The first spawn produced is what now I believe were F1s that looked more like Randal Mill monsters than I have ever seen since.

I culled the fish with those characteristics to brood/grow pond and got rid thse genetics as a result of a massive fish kill, and stated all over with my pure Florida CNBG program.
George

Ceceil,
The pond does have RES in it too. all the BG I have taken seem to be CN. I guess we could have intigrades here in NE FL.......
All them do have a distinct Copper Nose around here though.
Ill photo for you to see what you think, it does appear to be a female. They run a little small in this pond as they are kinda crowded I think. It was 45 last night and it is still doing fine in the bucket. Would a RES CNBG x be a little more cold tolerant?

Northeast FL isn't where you would get an intergrade between northern and CNBG. You could see that on the panhandle perhaps but there you get some of the more uncommon BG like the hand painted.

I'm not doubting you at all BR. Just asked if it could be a possibility.

No idea about a res X cnbg hardiness. I do know I'm just south of res' northern range and they don't always take in ponds here but are native to the larger lakes.

Bobby - Out of curiosity, how big are the larger CNBG in your FL pond?

Bill, they ae not monsters at all. I only recently started adding them and they get hand feed a few times a week. Goal for them is to be food for the larger fish. Ill take some pictures of the ones I am stocking int eh next week or so. what was in the pond was a genrerational bream hybrid of sorts, I am adding pure CNBG as I can get adults to get them more prolific.