well right now i am planning to have 7-9 acre pond the.
im planning it right now for it to be max depth at 12ft

when i was younger i used to love fish for bass and pickerel
i was wondering will the two predators survive and keep a balance in the pond
im also intrested in having pan fish like blue gill and redear


also my freind brought up the idea for a cold water pond with gravel and sand for small mouth bass
how would this work
what about food for them

Try this link to help you get going in the direction you need for SMB forage........and more.

SMB post

You have lots of options. SMB and pickerel can and do live in the same waters. However keeping any pond , no matter what type of fish, in balance is a job for man to manage. It takes some effort but can be done. There are lots of forage options but with those predators pick some elliptical bodied fish (YP , Gshiners , FH etc .)

If you get lots of snow cover for several weeks to a month at a time with no thaw to remove snow off the ice consider making the pond deeper to minimize fish winter kill especially as the pond gets older as in 10-30 yrs. Having this deeper water becomes even more critical if the pond will receive organic materials such as tree leaves or accumulating dead aquatic plants which consume lots of dissolved oxygen as they decay during winter under darkend conditions of ice-snow cover. With snow cover, in my opinion it is much more important to have the deeper water and less surface area compared to shallower 10-12 ft and more surface area. Consider having a basin that is 15' sloping to 18' or 20'ft deep. Think long term life of the pond for generations to come (50-100yrs) not just the immediate future. For the deep basin it should be 15%-30% of the surface area. Thus a 5 acre pond should have a deep basin that it about 1 acre big. It would also be good if the pond was close enough to electricity so it could be eventually aerated with an appropriate electric compressor system. Preplanning is important, so do it before the contract is signed and the contractor arrives. Consider buying the great Pond Boss pond planning book: "Perfect Pond Want One?" See link.
http://www.pondboss.com/store.asp?c=8


A pond built either way could have LMB-chain pickerel or SMB-Walleye. Two predators will require lots of 'appropriate' fish as food if you want the predators to grow well. Just because pickerel and walleye are toothy doesn't mean they will eat BG well. They actually prefer to eat small bass and larger shiners or perch. If the pickerel start spawning in the pond it could easily develop lots of "hammer handles".
SMB and Walleye do not do well on a diet of BG. Forage could be shiners, minnows and yellow perch. BG or pumpkinseed sunfish could work for the LMB-pickerel combination. It has been proven here that SMB do not do well with sunfishes unless it is just redears but not BG and maybe pumkinseeds. The link above "SMB post" provides lots of stocking advice.
IF a stream flow will add water to the pond this will cause numerous management headaches. Try hard to avoid stream imputs.

the main idea for my pond is having two predators with the fun of having pan fish as well

one of my thoughts or ideas is the large mouth bass and chain pickerel with blue gill and red ear

the other is having a cool water pond like small mouth bass and chain pickerel with yelow perch

which idea will do the best when it comes to balance

another question is dont pickerel prefer water with vegation and small mouth like more of a rocky bottom

instead what about pike and walleye will they spawn in a pond

what about even all three of these fish small mouth, large mouth and pickerel
with both the yellow perch and bluegill and redear

If you have the space why not build two ponds??. A good SMB or walleye pond can easily be one acre. I've seen them even smaller than 1 ac.
Lots of vegetation with shallow water marshy habitat with pickerel will increase the chances of their spawning and overpopulaiton, not a good idea in my opinion. Those predators will survive in either type of habitat, but in a pond of 1-3 ac both habitat types can be incorporated serving both or several fish species. Diversity of habitat is key to great wildlife & fishery commuinties. Proper management is key to maintaining good habitat and fishery balance. Matching proper forage to predators is important to getting started correctly. A bad start is very difficult to correct especially in a larger pond.

Keep SMB and LMB separate, if you don't, LMB will always dominate and smallies will ALWAYS struggle to survive and will have to be restocked frequently with 8"-12" fish and those fish stockers will not have long life spans.

what about large mouth and chain pickerel
with bluegill and redear
rember this is 9 acre pond

It'll work, but remember that CP are long and skinny, making them easy to slurp down by the LMB. You'll need lots of cover for the CP to hide and reproduce in if you want to keep a viable population in the pond. Next problem is trying to source enough of them to get them established.

You might want to think about adding Golden Shiners (GHS) to the forage base too. Easier for the CP to eat.

I'll throw out the idea of either of those bass species (prefer SMB with RES and YP) coupled with HSB? A great predator fish that will go with either choice you make.

look it my first day forum what does the RES stand for
redear ??

Yes. RES would be a bonus fish, not a fish relied on as forage for your predators. If going the SMB route you will need to research and array of minnow species. If going with LMB, it's simple. You need BG.

alright thanks man ill see what happens

RES are not an option in NY. Too far north for them.

well what about large mouth bass, chain pickerel, and bluegill

i would have stocked 500 bluegill and 50 bass and 50 pickerel

like you mentioned ny is up north so it might get to cold for some fish
what about useing yellow perch as a alternitive for the bluegill or what about both yellow perch and bluegill to have varitety

Where are you going to get the CP from? I don't know of a single hatchery that sells them. CP can be very suceptable to predation if there is little cover for them to take cover in.

I would utilize SMB and RBS, giving the SMB a head start until they're 8-10" before stocking the RBS. Then when the SMB are at 12", you could consider PS. I wouldn't stock BG in a far northern pond such as yours unless stocked with LMB and making sure your LMB are 12" before stocking them.

im not that familiar to what rbs can you give me a heads up on that

but small mouth and pumkinseed sounds great

rbs?

Redbreast sunfish

Since you mention RBS, CJ -- did you ever acquire any? IIRC, you were planning to a few months ago, but I think that was the trip that got disrupted, wasn't it? Had you settled on which hatchery to use?

there is a few hatcheries ive been looking at but all provide the species of fish mentioned here

iam more than likely going to go with the small mouth bass and pumkinseed idea ill make the bottom sand and gravel providing a spawning are for the bass it will also be deeper for the fish to escape the summer heat if needed with lots of structers
the pumkinseeds will provide fun pan fishing
and bass as a game fish

what about adding rainbow trout to this idea as a kind of bonus fish that will have to be restocked every few years

how does adding rainbow trout sound to a smallmouth bass and pumkinseed community

is this a good or bad idea

RBT can be a fine bonus fish. I suspect they will have to be a stock in the fall and harvest by late spring as they won't hold over through the summer. Unless your pond is fed by a very strong cold spring or you're at high elevation.

And yes, with my wife getting ill the RBS went on hold. I decided not to stock them until next year.

my last question is will pumkin seeds overpopulated or will the smallmouth bass be able to keep there popullation under control

PS can stunt though not as much as BG. Between you and the SMB you should be ok. An option to deal with the problem if it shows up is to add some HSB.

sounds good maybe instead of pumkin seed maybe redear

Are there any RES in the local lakes? Like CJ said, I'll bet you are too far North for RES to survive. PS will survive in colder water than RES will.

To prevent PS stunting with SMB as their predator, stock the SMB first and allow the first stocked SMB to reach 8"-10" before stocking the PS.