Hi everybody. What a great site! I would like to get some advice on stocking my new pond!
It is located in SW Missouri. The pond is spring fed, 10' deep and is about 1/2 acre in size. However, it does back up into a creek about 2' deep and 10' wide and is about 300 feet long.
The pond only took 3 days to fill with no rainfall so the spring is awesome.
I would like to put LMB, and some type of pan fish in, BG?, Hybrid Green Perch?, possibly crappie?, and maybe trout??? I know the trout are a risk with temps reaching over 100 but the spring is so good and cold, I'd like to try!
Thoughts?? I would appreciate the help.
Thanks!!

I would go with BG and LMB. Avoid crappie as they are hard to control.

Contact Shawn Banks of Midwest Lake Management.

Email: pondrx@midwestlake.com
Homepage: http://www.midwestlake.com

He is in your area and may be able to help you out.

With that much water available is there any way that you could enlarge that pond?

1/2 an acre can be tough to manage because it can become over populated in a hurry if you don't stay on top of things.

Fathead Minnows
Golden Shiners
Lake Chubsuckers
Mississippi Grass Shrimp
Papershell Crayfish

Those are a good start to your food chain with, no matter what else you end up stocking.

If your pond stays cold you could consider smallmouth instead of largemouth. In which case, you would want to stay away from bluegill. Something that reproduces a little less voraciously would be a better choice.

With a spring having that much flow, trout is an option for you as are yellow perch and other cold water species.

Great I will call him.

Thanks for the info. I would love to make the pond bigger, but the cost is an issue right now.
When you say it is hard to manage a small pond, what exactly do you mean?

What happens to an over populated pond

In smaller ponds, managing a typical LMB/BG fish combination can be difficult. You are limited to about 50 pounds of total bass. Doesn't leave much room to grow very many decent bass. Or you just end up with many stunted small bass. In smaller ponds, you can often produce a good sunfish fishery by allowing your bass to stunt which in turn controlled most of the sunfish reproduction meaning the remaining sunfish grow fast and larger. Sunfish being BG and RES.

In ponds less than 1 acre, I prefer put and take fishery based on HBG/HSB/CC. With a feeding program and aeration you can really produce some high quality fish in good numbers. With this combo, there is no reason you couldn't add some trout and see if they'd make it through the summer. If not, you can still stock them in the fall and harvest them in the spring before the temps get too high...

Check out the forum, the HBG/HSB/CC combo has been mentioned many times before.

You also have one of the top trout hatcheries in the nation near your pond in Ava, Missouri.

If the spring flow is cold and the volume is decent, if you decide against the HBG/HSB/CC fishery, you may want to consider a SMB as opposed to LMB fishery. Instead of BG, stock YP. You can then add a few WE and/or HSB as bonus fish. These fish would do far better in cooler waters as opposed to LMB/BG.

Those were pretty much my thoughts. I would probably skip the walleye and the hybrid sripers though. I wouldn't want a 15 pound monster walleye or whiper snacking on my one and two pound smallmouth. That would not make me happy.

With 100 yards of "creek" feeding from the spring to the pond you could try establish certain creek species of chubs or darters or whatever you like to add to the food chain. It may work in your situation.

If you went with a trout, SMB, YP pond, you would need some Golden Shiners as a main forage base along with native crayfish which could be sourced in local cool water creeks along with plenty of rock for the craw habitat and SMB spawning...given enough flow and some creek gravel, you might even pull off a trout spawn. If going with a YP/SMB option, you would need some walleye to control the YP.

Many possibilities to consider...all fun!!

In a smaller pound, I wouldn't worry very much about a 15 pound WE or HSB, highly unlikely you're going to grow a HSB that big and definitely not a WE.

Lots to think about. The feeding program is going to be tough because I live several hours away from the property.
Rainman, you mentioned a good fishery close by? Do you have the name of them or some contact info?
Looks like I had better look into making the pond bigger! Thanks guys.

Marvin Emmerson...I use this supplier exclusively when I get trout orders...just no finer trout out there IMO http://www.crystallakefisheries.com/

Thanks. I think I am going to talk to the contractor about enlarging the pond. I will let you all know what happens. Thanks again.

UPDATE***
We recently enlarged the pond to about an acre and a half. 2/3 of the pond is 2-4 ft deep and the rest is 4-12 ( very little of the pond is 10-12 ft)
Stocked with 10 lbs of minnows about 3 months ago. Lots of crawdads in the pond already.

Looking forward to stocking in the fall and still havent decided which route to go. I like the idea of HBG. Dumb question .. what is a CC?

Acronyms

With all of the water you have available I would make the pond as big as possible. A bigger pond is going to make a better fishery. I don't know if you have more room for expansion, but bigger is better up to a certain point.

Think about your forage production just like you do your gamefish. If you put a lot of time and effort into making spawning structure, cover, feeding areas, and area where forage can live and grow, you will do your pond a HUGE favor.

If you decide to pursue the put and take combination, (HBG, HSB, and CC), I wouldn't worry to much about spawning areas, cover, or protecting your forage. What little forage the HBG will produce doesn't need any hiding spots....quite the opposite.

I would concentrate my efforts towards establishing a good feeding program.

What about a put-and-take fishery for trout? If you feed pellets (you can buy automated feeders since you don't live on-site) and your summer temperatures don't get too warm you could have a lot of fun. Much easier to manage.

IMO that pond is screaming smb, yp, we, hsb, and trout.....you are very fortunate having that type of scenario for your pond

Um....+1,000,000! Great call OZ. Don't forget our friends RES or maybe HBG if you want a panfish species to target. I think both are a very low impact fish, and neither will overpopulate in that scenario. Sure the HBG will compete for forage, but if you're supplementing with feeding program you can clear that hurdle. I think a permanent forage species is important though - either Golden Shiner or more desirable would be a Spotfin Shiner or one of the other species with which Bill and Travis can describe.

UPDATE!!! Just my luck the year I buy ground in Missouri they have the worst drought in 50 years! I guess we faired better than most... I only lost a little over a foot of depth. With last weeks rain we are back to almost full again.
I maxed out the size of the pond while it was dry to right at an acre. We confirmed while swimming in the deep part that the water is COLD. I dont know what the temp is but when you swim down towards the bottom it'll take your breath away. Will SMB, and Trout go deep for the cold water?

MoRE ADviCE PLEAse..... I appreciate all the comments and suggestions on what to stock. I would like to get your opinion and narrow this down so I can order some fish. My main goals are 1. maintaining a clean, clear pond as much as possible. (CC will muddy things up I assume) 2. I want to be able to harvest the fish for eating on a regular basis,... so is overpopulating a concern??? 3. Enjoy catching them! The HBG sound great but they dont reproduce right? SMB sound fun too... can they be in with LMB?

Sorry for asking again... I just want to do this right the first time!
Thanks!

LMB and SMB cannot coexist in a pond as the LMB will outcompete the SMB.

My advice:
1) Decide between LMB or SMB before you do anything else. If you go LMB and change your mind you have to kill everything in the pond to switch to SMB. Both will require different forage fish so make that decision first.

2) Once you have made your decision come up with a forage stocking plan and stock your forage. Wait as long as possible before adding your predators (bass/trout/walleye/hsb). I am preparing a pond for YP and SMB, I started stocking forage in March but I will let this pond "marinate" until Fall of 2013 before adding any predators. I want to be sure that all stocked forage species get firmly established before a whirlwind of predation comes down on them. I want to have a good population of breeder sized shiners/darters/killifish/RES/minnows that can withstand bass predation enough to keep breeding. If you are leaning the SMB route talk to CJBS2003 about getting some non-traditional forage going.

3) Come up with a feeding plan. You do not need to be on the property daily in order to do this. Texas Hunter feeders are almost maintenance-free and my 125lb capacity unit once filled with feed can last 3-4 weeks without being filled again (depending on how often and how long your feeders go off daily this will vary). Your forage (and predators) will grow MUCH faster with a feeding plan.

4) Consider aeration. If there is no electricity near your pond then this might not be feasible but if it is feasible it will make your pond far more productive than a non-aerated pond. If this spring moves enough water it might not be necessary but there are others on this site that will be able to tell you more than I can.

5) Get some beneficial vegetation established. This sounds easier than it actually is. I have made three attempts at establishing eelgrass in my pond and I am only just now getting some established. Vegetation provides breeding grounds for forage and hiding places for predators. Look into hybrid water lillies, they are easy to plant and look great. I will not be adding predators until I have enough vegetation established.

6) (This should probably be #1) Get some cover and structure established in that pond ASAP! If you want SMB get some rocky structure and/or spawning beds set up ( http://www.helpourfisheries.com/how_to_build_a_nest.htm ). PVC fish structures like the porcupine fish attractor work quite well and are easy to put together. Get creative and look through the forums to find ideas you can put into your pond. You will need some wood pallets (weighted down with rocks) in the shallow areas as spawning grounds for your forage.

The most important thing is to have a plan. If you try to do this without a plan you will have regrets. I can say from experience that watching a pond plan come to fruition is incredibly satisfying! This is the BEST resource on the internet, use it, ask questions, do research, and you will reap the benefits.

Good stuff RockvilleMDAngler.

I do want to do it right! I assume I have some time to decide and that I can go ahead and stock HBG and minnows now and wait on SMB or LMB until spring.

On the structure side. I have a 20' x 20' gravel bed, a huge tree stump with the roots intact , and an area about 60' x 30' with small saplings, vines, and an island with tree roots all over.

The pond also has about 300' of 20' wide creek attached to it with lots of structure under the banks of the creek. Water depth in the creek is about 2'.

I will be glad to add more structure if needed but I felt like this was a pretty good start? Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

Great idea on the feeder, I will get that done this month.

Vegetation.?? Ok, thats a tough one. I dont want to create a nightmare of moss and weeds but I do understand something is needed. Here in Kansas I've seen many ponds ruined by vegetation taking over. Probably good for the fish but the swimming really sucks. Will the hybrid lillys spread?

HBG are a bad idea with SMB, they end up competing with the SMB for food and don't breed enough for their young to feed the SMB. RES are fine with both species but do not breed enough to be the sole forage for either. Smallmouth prefer to feed on more "fusiform" prey like golden shiners, lake chubsuckers, and yellow perch. These fish are more streamlined and are easier for a smallmouth to eat. Largemouth can feed more on bluegill as their larger gape allows them to swallow taller prey. If you plan on going SMB you will need to get the following stocked (these are just the commercially available forage, going outside the box can only make it better): Golden Shiners, Fathead Minnows, Red-Eared Sunfish (mostly for snail control but their young will be prey for larger SMB), crayfish, grass shrimp then stock Yellow Perch along with your smallmouth. If you want to go largemouth then you will need to stock: fathead minnows, bluegill, red-eared sunfish, and crayfish. Depending on your climate you can add other forage to improve the overall quality of the fish. You can stock large amounts of forage all at once along with the predators but this is expensive, or you can stock a smaller number of each now and wait until next fall before you stock predators. One of the benefits of waiting to stock your predators is that you can add new types of forage throughout the waiting period without worrying if they will be immediately wiped out by your predators.

One of the benefits to getting beneficial vegetation established is that it will make it less likely for unwanted vegetation to get established. Plants like hybrid water lillies (small variety), corkscrew eel grass, and American Pondweed are slow to grow and will not take over the pond. There are many other beneficial plants you can try to get established and I am sure one of the experts will chime in with some advice. If it were me I would look to get that shallow portion of your pond covered in hybrid lillies or eelgrass.

The rule of thumb is that you want 20% of your pond bottom covered in structure. This does not sound like much but it is! You can use rocks, concrete blocks, old trees weighted down with cinderblocks (try to avoid oaks as tannins can cause problems with your water chemistry), custom built pvc structures etc. all give your baitfish places to hide and your predators ambush areas. The 20% number is good because more will give your forage too many places to hide which means your predators will have to work harder to find food and won't grow as well. Many people here prefer the pvc and artificial structures as they last longer and cause fewer hangups, but that is all personal preference. Check out the "Creating Habitat" forum for ideas.

The creek sounds like a good spawning area for smallmouth but it is doubtful that it will become a regular hangout for bigger fish outside of the spawning season. They might chase baitfish up there but most of there time will be spent in the main pond.

You mentioned swimming, do you have a dock? We decided to have a designated swimming area in my pond and we set it up around the dock. We did not put any fish structure in this area so nobody would get hurt diving off the dock. Our swimming area is 12'+ deep and the grass would never get in the way. We will not be swimming in the shallow areas where the grass is established anyway, soft mud is not something the kids are into.

Once again great info.. thanks. I will establish the 20% cover/structure. Should be able to accomplish that before fall.

You mentioned some difficulty in establishing the lillies? Any tips? Is it too late in the year to get them going?

I think I will end up going with HBG and LMB. Seems to make the most since and to be a proven combination. I will get some more Fatheads stocked and the HBG this fall and see about putting the LMB in in the spring.

Also... what is tannins? From oak trees i assume?

Where is the best place to buy Hybrid Waterlilies?

http://www.aquariumplants.com/category_s/9.htm

Any hybrid small (S) lily on that page should work. The warmer it is when you plant them the quicker they take hold. Mine established nicely but frikkin geese have eaten all the stems and pads; hopefully, the root structures are still there and they will pop back up later this year or next spring. To plant them barely cover the tuber with mud and place a small rock or brick on top to prevent it from washing away in a storm. I planted mine from 6" to 24" and the shallower ones took off quicker but eventually all of them had pads on the surface.

Tannins: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannin Several people have had incidents where the tannins in some trees that were to be used as fish structure harmed their water and caused a fish kill.

Also if you want to go the largemouth route stick with regular bluegill and not the hybrid bluegill. Regular bluegill reproduce much quicker and can keep up with the voracious appetite of your largemouth bass. I would also add some golden shiners for variety but I don't have a LMB pond so someone else might caution against them.

How do you check if you have that tannins acid? My water looks similar in color!

I dont see any that say hybrid. Just making sure I dont get something that over take the pond. If they say small is that considered hybrid?

Sorry, most of them are hybrid but as long as they are small and hardy they should work perfectly.

great, so they will not spread or over populate?

They will slowly spread but it would take a long time for them to cover the entire shallow area, like years. The spread will come from individual plants growing and covering more ground, not from new reproduction.

ok thanks we'll try and get some started