I just dug my pond, which is almost 2 acres and an average of 8 - 15 feet deep. I called a local hatchery and told him i wanted a fishery that will be self sustaining, with bass, bluegill, and catfish. He sold me 3500 hybrid bluegill and 10 lbs of fatheads. He told me to wait a a couple months and add the bass and catfish. From what im reading on this board that is not what i should have put. Can i put in some coppernose and red ear, then in a few months put the bass and catfish? I appreciate the help.

Wish you would have found the forum sooner... There are times when hybrid bluegills(HBG) are very appropriate, most times they are not... For a self sustaining fishery, THEY ARE NOT.

How large were the HBG that you stocked?

they were all less than 1", if it helps i am feeding but dont see anyone eating yet

Hello Monty and welcome to the forum! You definitely found the best place for friendly, expert pond management information on the web.

I'm not a LMB fishery expert by any means, but many here are. Even with my limited knowledge I find that stocking advice you related to be questionable.

If you want a self sustaining fishery, my advice to is go ahead and stock CNBG [copper nose bluegill] this Spring. Were it not for your 3500 HBG already stocked, I'd recommend 2-3,000 CNBG. We'll need an expert to chime in here for stocking recommendations.

I think you could have gone heavier on the FHM but I'd simply recommend at this time getting pallets and anchoring them to the shore with rope and a stick of pvc, rebar, or a limb/stick. This will serve as spawning habitat for the FHM. By Summer's end you should be able to walk across the pond on FHM. That's when I'd stock the LMB.

Others will be along shortly with expert advice - fear not you have a great opportunity to build an awesome fishery! Can you tell us the name of the hatchery you used?

Uh-Oh....
As CJ stated HBG are not good for a balanced fishery. What size feed are you using right now? A 1" BG won't be able to eat anything very big, unless you're reducing the size of the pellets even further you may not be accomplishing much by trying to feed. Have you asked around to see what size CNBG and RES are available to you?

What size are the LMB you were thinking of adding? Nearly any Bass between 3-8" will adore a 1" BG.

I'm wondering about adding some catfish and 4-6" LMB now, then 3-5" CNBG and RES in a few months, but that's backwards from the usual recommendations.
What would happen if you added the bigger CNBG and RES now, and used the existing HBG as forage for them? Hopefully someone with more knowledge than myself will have a better plan...

You got hosed. The HBG will spawn somewhat but are not what you need. I can only assume that the hatchery guy was better at selling fish than stocking for a balanced pond. The BG and CNBG spawn multiple times in the South to create the sustained forage base needed to feed larger predators.

OK, I don't think all is lost. I would get some 2 to 4 inch CNBG or BG, maybe 1,000, and add to the mix. Some will spawn true and some will cross to create a Green Sunfish. Some consider the green sunfish an undesirable fish. Neither I nor the bass agree with that. Wait about 3 months and add some 3 to 6 inch bass. You can add the catfish now. Along the way, you should have a lot of fun with the HBG and get a lot of fish dinners.

The alternative is to rotenone the whole thing and start over.

More than likely, in either case, you will want at least one feeder. I know that may not meet your idea of a self sustaining, balanced pond. However, ponds are seldom, over time, either balanced or self sustaining.

Did you check your water quality, PH and alkilinity, prior to stocking?

BTW, I would do my fish buying elsewhere in the future. That guy does not have your best interest at heart or is ignorant.

I plan on feeding a lot, the feed i have is small, but i bet it isn't small enough for the little guys, i didn't think of that. I hate to rotenone the pond when i just spent $1,500.00 on hybrid bluegill. i would love to salvage it if i can, and i dont mind a little extra managing. the next closer place to get fish is dunns, there is nobody else in la. thats why i got stuck with the other guy.

I didnt check my ph and alkilinity, how do i do that? I havent seen any little fish floating, does that mean they survived?

Monty first welcome to PB.

Second let's be sure what you have. Unfortunately names get mixed up sometimes. Some hatcheries call BG X CNBG hybrids. They are entirely different from real HBG. We need to know exactly what you have. Ask the hatchery exactly what you got. If the say HBG ( GSF X BG) then ask them why they sold you that when you said a self sustaining fishery. Tell them they need to give you BG or CNBG and come get the HBG if they want them back. The idea is to get the BG for no cost. Offer to buy 1000 and tell them they owe you 3500 more. 4500 2 inch BG/CNBG should work. You have enough room for now for all of both the BG/CNBG and the HBG. Feed smaller feed. Add some more FH say 10 lbs. Then start looking for 8 to 10 inch LMB for stocking in Sept. You will need about 60. As the HBG get bigger start to catch them and eat them (about fall). You will need to learn how to tell them apart. See this http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=1341&Number=14459 . You can work through this.

eric, I like your approach!

Monty, contact your local NRCS office and see if they know of anybody like a University or water test labs that can do a water sample test.

Since they are 1", I'd stock 6" LMB now. Allow the LMB to start eating the 3500 HBG, if they are in fact BGxGSF. You can also add some 5"+ BG and RES with the bass.

This is sage advice from an attorney I would follow. Mentioning the fact the Pond Boss community is FOLLOWING this situation doesn't hurt you, either. I'm hopeful your hybrids are in fact true BG. Tell them to make it right ASAP and that many eyes are following this thread.

That is the greatest idea.. I hope you do this. And honestly i wouldnt worry about hurting the fisheries feelings obviously he didnt care about yours.. Keep us updated on this. Your fishery is in no way ruined but this definately changes your management approach, in my opinion to more difficult..

Good advice so far. Assuming you have true HBG, I think your pond will be okay for a long term balance if you leave the HBG in and then start fishing them out when they get big enough for you to clean/harvest as suggested by Ewest. I would not stock bass now to eat the small HBG. Let them grow and harvest them. Regular BG (CNBG) will eventually out-pace the HBG because HBG have a pretty low reproducive rate. Initialy do not overharvest your bass so they establish a good density early and they prey well on the young HBG. Eventually the HBG will develop low density compared to pure BG.
PS - 1" HBG from the 2010 year spawn are unusually small, probably due to overcrowding in the hatchery pond. By right or good fish mangagement methods they should be 2"-4"long.

Hey,
I really appreciate all the help you guys are giving, the guy said he understood that i wanted the georgia giants, which is all he had at the time. I really didn't want to argue with the guy so I called Dunns fish farm and ordered 2500 coppernose bluegill, 400 shellcrackers, 400 catfish, and 10 lbs of fatheads. The catfish are ok right, my wife really wants them. I'll add the bass in september like you said, I added tons of structure, to the pond, should i add a bottom diffuser or an aerator?

i wanted to add more cnbg like ewest suggested but this is about all i could afford, will it work?

Channel Catfish are good with a Largemouth, Coppernose combination. The only thing I see is when your catfish get big enough take them out. Channel Catfish are a put and take fish they do not spawn unless you put out buckets and other enclosed structure in there. Since you have 2 acres you should be fine with that many catfish. It should work.

That right there says it all. (Not at you, search Georgia Giants here and read.....)

YUP!

I see no way that any fish seller could mistake self sustaining forage as being Georgia Giants or any other HBG.

Can you tell us who sold you the GG ? I would not put that many CC in your pond. 100 would be more than enough. Only 150 pre acre are suggested if there are no other fish. The rest will work over time. Since you went a little low on the CNBG I would reduce the size of the LMB to 8 inch.

Catch and eat the GG and CC as soon as they are big enough to eat (early and often).

You ended up putting in quite a bit of forage so the bass wil grow well also. You will have a great pond if you continue to follow the PB advice being given.

You ended up putting in quite a bit of forage so the bass wil grow well also. You will have a great pond if you continue to follow the PB advice being given. I second the motion on less catfish. I also suggest a reliable feeder you have lots of fish to feed. What about HSB to help keep the GG in check?

I got the GG from shepards fish hatchery in louisiana, and as far as putting less catfish in the pond that's going to be hard, that is the main fish my wife wanted, she asked me last night to put around 1000 catfish in so she can cook catfish 3 or 4 times a week. Thats her and our 3 kids favorite food. would it hurt putting extra catfish in if we feed a lot and start taking them out as soon as they are big enough? the guy at dunns said he wants to stock my fingerling bass now also, since hes delivering the fish so he doesnt have to come back. he says it will be ok if we put small bass in, will that work?

Also guys, can you stock tilapia in louisiana, it seems like a good idea from what im reading here.

I wouldn't stock 1,000 cats in a pond your size. You could very easily get a biomass problem leading to a dissolved oxygen crash.

Using standard pond mgt you can't raise that much fish biomass in a small pond without a vrey high risk of a crash. If its run as an aquaculture operation , with all the equipment and knowhow, then you can. It's 2 different worlds.

Monty:

How many pounds of catfish would your wife be cooking per meal?

What size of catfish does she like to cook?

The reason for asking is that a pond can only support so much biomass. Exceed that, and you will have water quality and algae problems, eventually leading to a massive fish kill.

Listen to the guys here, they don't have a financial stake in your pond. The fish sellers won't replace your fish if you have a massive fish kill due to overstocking.

I see that you are going to feed. Do you have an aeration system for your pond? If you don't, with that biomass you will need one if you hope to have a chance on keeping all those fish alive.

hey guys, im going to leave it at the original 4 or 500 cats if yall say thats what i need. I put a bunch of big tires and concrete culverts in hoping they will spawn. she cooks a lot of fish, we have 3 kids, we always have their friends, my brother,and my wifes parents. She cooks it 50 different ways, and cooks a lot at a time and often. we would start culling as soon as they were big enough. I am in the process of putting an aeration system in now, and the pond is probably a little over 2 and 1/4 acres, so i was thinking of putting in a bottom water diffuser and an aerator. or should i put two aerators, any suggestions on an economical option. I dont know what is possible, but the hatchery didn't want to deliver the fish if it wasnt worth it to them, so i guess he wanted to sell as much as possible. He is also delivering everything at the same time, but the bass are small so he said it wont be a problem. Is that ok, can i add my predators now, it would be much easier and less trouble.

ok, because of the concerns of the amount of fish stocked i am doubling the size of the pond. Im going to make it approx. 4 acres, we already started digging the addition. im adding another 1.5 acre pond with a 50' wide channel connecting them. the new pond is under some established oaks, thats why its going to be about 700' away, which gives me a long meandering channel to connect the two ponds. Im going to add hsb like suggested, how many do yall think i should put. im also adding more cnbg like suggested. I ordered 100 lbs. of golden shiners also and 15 more lbs of fatheads. ive been catching gambusia and adding them. I got ghost shrimp from bodad, some very nice ones i might add. i stocked over ten sacks of crawfish and i am feeding as much as they can eat. Im researching the aeration and would like anyone on here that sells aeration to give me a quote. so far fish stocked are 3500 hbg, 2000 cnbg, 500 shellcrackers, 100 northern lmb, 50 tiger bass, 1000 catfish(850 cc & 250 blues). So what now, sorry for the large amount of catfish but the wife wouldn't budge. what now? I put tons of structure, islands, submerged islands, cypress trees and plants.

I am sure you will get some feedback from some experts here, but I will let you know some issues I have already run into with my small pond and too many CC.

I now have the worst FA issue I have seen and it has never been like this until I stocked it. Still trying to decide on chemicals (which I do not like to use) or Tilapia (which I waiting for my ponds to warm up) to help with it (may need a combo of both).

Plus you mentioned that you have placed structure for them to spawn. If this is the case then you may want to cut the numbers back, as they may overpopulate if you do not.

Now I understand that you want the fish in there, but if you are feeding they very well could be ready to eat within a year depending on the size you stock and what size you want them to be before removing them. So if they pull off a good spawn you will have way more than the 1000 you speak of.

Now again I am not an expert, but I also did not have the advice from all the wonderful people on here, so I now have to deal with the fact that the fish farm sold me way too many fish and either need to work like heck to get it back in balance or bite the bullet, kill it off now and start over right.

Since I am stubborn and money is tight the first option is the way I am going and will let nature take its course. I just wanted to throw that out there since some fish farms are only out there to make money not a nice pond for the owners. (which may be the case with both options you have ordered fish from?)

Next time you get fish try to use someone from here if possible, I do not have that option where I live without driving 5 hours or having them delivered which is not cost effective for my small pond. (one day I hope to have a large pond and will use at least one if not more sources of fish here on pond boss)

Thanks