Howdy,all! First post on the forum.

I grew up on the KS/MO border and fished, fished, fished as a youth. Now I live on the UT/ID border and have 4 sons.

All that's available to catch around here are worthless stocked rainbow trout (slime buckets).

So I thought I'd recreate my childhood adventures for my boys.

The catch, however, is that I'm doing this on a budget of $0 and trade work.

I had a buddy come dig me a hole with his track hoe. He only got about 45% of what I wanted done. Hence, I currently have a .35 acre pond that runs to a depth of about 12' when full.

I pumped water in from a canal and it's probably 80-85% full.

Now, because I didn't find this site in time, I have no structure, no nothing. Just a big hole in the ground with water in it.

Today I took my boys fishing and we caught 32 bluegill and translocated them to the pond.

My goal was/is to have a LMB, BG, and CC pond... I think.

So where would you pros suggest I go from here?

First define your goals, which you are close to doing in this thread. Next decide what type of fish you would like and search for reputable hatcheries located near you. On the Idaho department of Agriculture website is a list of fish farms. Be careful when bringing in from someone else's pond, because you can transfer unwanted diseases or parasites with those fish.

How big do you what the pond?

Do you have a map or sketch of your pond on a topo or ariel photograph?

What part of Idaho are you located at?

When you have decided on the fishery you would like to have. Then you can start with habitat, food chain, and harvesting.

I'm on the UT side. There are ZERO hatcheries I can find that carry bass or bluegill. I found one on a state list and they don't seem to be in biz anymore.

I can take some photos of the pond as is. You'll laugh at how sad it is, though... BRB

First of all, no one around here is going to be laughing at your pond. I know plenty of people who would be completely jealous to have even the small pond that you have.

With a limited budget, as you mentioned, transferring fish from friends' ponds is a logical solution. Just be careful you don't introduce something you don't want in there. Getting those BG established should be goal #1, no matter you goals. I think you could get away with stocking about 200. And wait to stock your LMB until you know the BG have spawned and established themselves successfully.

Jordan, it's amazing what you can do with a small pond and there are incredible articles focused completely on "micro ponds" if you haven't checked them out already.

Welcome to Pond Boss. Stick around and you'll learn a ton about making your little hole in the ground everything you want it to be.

Ok, here are a couple of pix. Water has dropped about 2' since initial filling 6 weeks ago. I figure the banks have absorbed much, combined with evaporation.

I don't know whether my murk counts as algae or not, but it's got a lot of bug life in there, and I found a bunch of 1" frogs in there when I released the bluegill.

So, insofar as my goals go, my top priority is being able to go out and fish with my boys and make memories. So bluegill will likely be my primary focus. But I would love to have a handfull of mediumish-sized LMB trolling through there for a different challenge.

Also, I love fresh fish. So, on occasion, these guys will serve as my protein source.

Ok. I found an updated list of UT commercial hatcheries. First one I called wants $5/bluegill (6-7") and $7/bass (12") + $150 delivery. That sure seems pretty steep to me... Couldn't even tell me what strains of fish they were...

Nothing wrong with scenery at all Jordan! Very nice! So I would think you'd be comfortable with what people consider either a "balanced" pond or a trophy bass pond. The first you manage with the hope of getting the most potential out of both species, BG and LMB, while the latter assures your boys get to catch all the BG they can handle with the occasional decent LMB mixed in. In this scenerio the majority of the BG will remain small, though experts on this site can give you some harvesting pointers that can help your BG avoid stunting and overcrowding (and give you something to eat on occasion). Get more BG in there, and possibly some FHM (fathead minnows) to get a good forage base going before you introduce your LMB.

Those prices seem astronomical to me, though they are larger fish so you can expect to spend more. Where did you catch those 30+ BG? A friend's pond? Perhaps you can get what you need from him. Since your pond is small it shouldn't be too demanding. You can probably get away with 25-40 LMB and possibly cull the male LMB and female BG to get best results, but wait for an expert to elaborate on this first. The forum slows a bit on the weekends so this thread will get noticed more when Monday rolls around and you should get some great advice.

I sure ain't laughing! That's some nice looking water.

If it's legal, for a pond that size, you could transfer fish from another BOW. A few things to watch out for if you do.
1) Inspect the fish for any wounds or external parasites. Don't stock them if you find any.
2) I'd get a couple (or 3) stock tanks, say 100 gallons each. Use a salt dip in each tank: Salt Dip
If 3 tanks, first and last are salt dip tanks, middle tank is clear water.
3) Net them out, don't dump the water into the pond.
4) Be 100% sure of your fish I.D. skills before transferring fish. If the fish doesn't look like a pure bred fish, I wouldn't introduce it.

I've introduced unwanted plants into my pond by transferring fish without giving the salt dip. I have even "washed off" the fish in a tank of well water, netted them out, and I STILL ended up with unwanted plants in the pond (i.e. Eurasian Water Milfoil)

I'd put Bluegills (say 200 of them), Largemouth Bass (10-15 of them) in the pond. If you can catch any Redear Sunfish or Pumpkinseed Sunfish, I'd toss in 25 or so of them as well.
Channel Catfish if you want say 25 of them. I'm working on getting the CC out of my pond. (all but 4 of them) I find that they are hard to catch, and once caught, I have a very hard time catching them again.

If you have some extra $$, see about getting some Golden Shiners or Fathead minnows (preferrably from a supplier and not a bait shop) for the pond. The FHM if put in the pond with Bg or LMB, most likely won't last a week or 2 before they are breakfast, lunch and supper. The GSH will last longer because they swim quicker. Forage diversification is a good thing.

You might be able to support more (or less) fish in the pond. Here's some light reading for ya.

Carrying Capacity

Your pond looks great fro just beginning and on a limited budget. As far as the prices go for BG in your area, I would call all the hatcheries nearest you. This would give you a good foundation to start from.

I would agree with esshup on giving a salt dip to any fish from another BOW.

Even small ponds can produce LMB given the right situation. I would start with getting the BG and FHM into your pond and then introduce your bass at a later date.

Have you thought about feeding your fish with a supplemental feed?

Thanks for the replies. Primarily BG, secondarily LMB is probably the route I'll take (much as it pains me to go that route).

I called every available stocker in the state, but only talked to one person. Left lotsa messages, though, so hopefully I'll find some more competitive bids on Monday/Tuesday.

I have considered feeding. And I have considered aeration. Feeding will have to wait until my small business pulls through this economic slump. And aeration is also probably cost prohibitive because of the electrical I'd have to lay down from the house or the barn (200 yards) + equipment + electric bill.

For now, I'm hoping I can scrape by doing next to nothing. Just protecting the habitat as best I'm able and hoping that Mother Nature helps me keep my fish alive and thriving...

Went out to the pond again this evening to check for floaters (none yet), and saw just TONS of insect activity on the surface and more tiny frogs on the shores (like the size of my pinky nail)... so hopefully the food chain is ready and waiting to fatten my little BG up.

FWIW, you don't HAVE to run the electric to the pond. You can have the compressor near the house and run 1/2" I.D. drip irrigation line to the pond, then swap it to sinking aeration hose. I know a guy that's running that airline 900' to his pond. He has an alcohol de-icer hooked up to the line, and the line never froze all winter long, and the level of alcohol in the canister never budged.

I doubt that the aerator will add $5.00 to your monthly electric bill. (depending on kwh prices of course)

If the pond is deep enough and the fish load not high you probably will be able to overwinter without a kill. It would help if you could shovel snow off the ice to let sunlight thru. Photoplankton will produce O2 even during the winter if they have enough light.

Yeah, we freeze long and hard here, so I was planning to take the shoveling route.

Speaking of which, will bluegill bite if you icefish for them?

Yep. Depending on the funds, you could stock 25 or so Rainbow Trout 12" long for the winter. They will die if water temps get over 70°, but they are very active in colder water.

I added some to my pond last October, and caught more of them thru the ice than BG.

You mentioned you lost 2 feet of water. Probably lack of rain or could be water soaking into the soil since it is new especially if sandy soil. Just curious when you built it, did you use the excavated clay layer to line the bottom? That would help keep more water in.

No rain around here. This is a desert. Lots and lots of high-altitude blazing sun.

The clay around here (which is solid from the surface down to about 170'), according to a USDA official, is some of the worst clay in the country. It is completely hydrophobic and seals like no other. I dug about 4' below ground water, as well.

In addition, my pond lies 10' away from an irrigation canal. So I can maintain the water level with a trash pump anytime I need to. I filled the whole thing in only 2 days with a 3" intake.

... went out and circled the pond this evening. No signs of life. I hope they're in there and alright...

Went out and caught another 29 bluegill this morning and put 'em in. No floaters yet.

They're in there. I would imagine they're just getting adjusted and laying low for a while.

Took my second oldest out to scout a couple of new fishing holes and came home with another dozen bluegill.

Whats your total count now on BG. Good way of stocking.

72 bluegill.

Did you get a better idea for prices on BG from your local hatcheries?

Sadly, I didn't get a single returned call... But at the rate I'm acquiring bluegill, I'm not too worried.

I'll figure out the bass later.

Jordan, Its still not to late to put some structure in (as in trees and bushes). Also, yellow perch and walleye bite when ice fishing.

If conditions are good under the ice BG and even the occassional bass bite well under the ice, if you fish properly. I suggest that you take a picture of one of your newly added BG or a new one from the location where you are fishing and provide it for us. We can verify if they are pure stain BG, which may affect how you manage the fishery. Since you are in north country, I suggest that when out angling for BG that you add a few LMB (4"-8") long yet this year - maybe 8-10 fish. They will spawn next spring (May2011) and the hatching LMB will provide some control of a large BG spawn that you will have in 2011. Adding a few fingerling LMB (20-30) this fall would also be a good idea. Those bass will survive on the commonly available invertebrates in a new pond with just a few BG (72) present. IMO you have enough BG in your new 0.35ac pond; stop adding them for this year. Start angling for a few small LMB. No big ones (10+").

In the north for a balanced bass-BG fishery and for good harvestable BG, IMO you don't want your BG to get too far ahead of your LMB. To produce good BG fishing/harvest you want numerous small bass (8"-14") and few BG.

I'm working now, but will get a picture when I can. Along those lines, my kids are begging to fish our pond now. Is that taboo? If so, how long should I wait?

If your kids are begging you to fish, I think you should oblige.

As long as you toss the caught BG back, I think you're fine. But you want a healthy population, so handle with wet hands, only briefly out of the water, and maybe even pinch the barbs on your hooks.

Definately pinch down the barbs on the hooks. Use single hooks, not treble hooks. Try to fish without using live bait. The BG tend to swallow the live bait quicker than artificial bait, and even using a barbless hook might cause mortality getting one out.

With 72 adult BG in the new pond he can afford to loose a few (6-10) to hooking mortality and still have plenty for spawning next spring. It is also likely that he will have a BG spawn in August this year. Watch for fry in shallow water during early - mid Sept. Begin searching for fingerling LMB you may need them this fall or next spring.

Hit yet another lake tonight with the kids. Was told it was a bluegill haven. State record BG came from it...

Underwhelmed by the results, but still caught another 19... but they didn't fare too well in the cooler. Not sure how many will pull through the night. We'll see tomorrow...

Also caught one young LMB and threw him in for fun.

By the way, I caught a few pregnant ladies, so I might just have a hatch sooner than August. We'll see.

Didn't see any floaters today (although we DO have a lot of waterfowl around here that might be gulping 'em down before I ever see 'em).

Took out some bread to try to trigger a response. Tore it up and cast it out, some floating and some sinking. I got ZERO reaction. Admittedly, my visibility is only 12" or so... but I circled the entire pond throwing deep and shallow, and didn't catch any signs of life.

Yet when I caught these guys, they'd almost instantly bite anything we threw in the water! Is this something I need to be concerned with?

I would guess no Jordan, that they're likely still acclimating themselves to their new home, but wait for someone who's stocked transported BG to concur. I know farm raised fish generally aren't shy out of the gate, but maybe that's not the case with wild fish.

Took the boys out fishing this afternoon. Found our first floater.

Didn't catch a single fish, but were able to eyeball multiple groupings wandering around the shallows. Very skittish and not apparently eating, but behavior seems alright.

I parted out a hotdog for them as a peace offering.

Turbid water and lots of invertebrate food in a new pond are reasons for the new BG to be shy bitters. With water visibility only 12" it will be hard for BG to see the bait. Got to see it to bite it. You using live bait or artificials?. You will discover that BG will tend to become hook smart in a smaller pond with intensive angling. After getting caught a few times, some of the wiser ones will refuse to bite even live bait with a line attached even with most of hook imbeded in the bait.

I was putting the bait right amidst the visible fish. Worm and hotdog. Nothin'. Cast a 1" beetle spin, yellow w/ black stripes, at least hoping to garner some little followers. Never saw a thing.

But that's okay. I'm hopeful they're just settling in.

I think they are hood shy for now, and with all the available natural food in their new home they are even harder to convince.

I forgot to mention it previously but JWHAP and I had an interesting experience while fishing on our pond in June. DIED taught me (or actually reminded me of a method that both he and Bruce had taught me previously and that I had promptly forgot, I hate it when that happens) of a method of jigging for BG, nothing new or earth shattering to you fresh water fishing veterans but to a complete fishing idiot it was helpful.

Anyhoo, JWHAP and I were in our boat using this jigging method catching BG like crazy. As fast as we could lower the jig in the water (one of those small jig heads with the red eye and with a piece of Berkley worm attached to it) we would hook a BG. We were having a blast and suddenly the boat was surrounded by BG. The water was clear enough so that we could watch the entire process happen. Lower the jig, several BG rocket in, one would strike and the fight would be on. Bring the BG into the boat (barbs have been removed from the hook) release the BG, check the worm, and begin the process again.

This fishing frenzy lasted for a good 45 minutes.

Then the fishing slowed way down.

The BG had become wise to the situation. They now would slow approach the jig and either nibble delicately at it or ignore it all together.

The "hook smart process" happened all within plain view.

I realize that this is no great revelation to anyone (hey, this is a JHAP post, were you actually expecting enlightenment? a cure for world hunger? a solution for world peace? a fix to stop your toilet from running? get real here, do you even read my posts?) but it was fun to actually witness the entire process.

That's it, carry on.

Went out after work today and started tying on every different lure I had to see what might trigger a strike.

Caught my first fish on my own water (and only fish of the day - an about-to-pop female, 5") with a 1" countdown rapala.

Got half-hearted strikes on white jigs, fake grasshopper, and an orange grub. But none of them actually took the hook.

Interestingly, I have a big trash can that blew into the pond in a storm - mostly submerged - and that's proving to be the habitat of choice.

I'm actually glad the water level is down, because I can prep some structure on dry ground, anchor it in, and then fill the pond back up. It'll be fun.

Speaking of structure, I have females about to lay eggs. But the bottom is just clay. This isn't going to prohibit them, is it?

BG prefer small gravel or sand, but they'll spawn on anything (I think). Well, hard large rocky bottom might give them problems.

So I came home from work and my wife tells me she swears she saw "little, tiny, baby fish swimming around". I might already have a second generation in there.