Just wanted to make anyone interested aware I did end up buying 10 lbs of FHM from Arkansas Pond Stockers fish truck. Paid $8.50/lb and stocked them last Saturday.

Lost maybe 10 minnows...tops. I hand sorted these as I have never had any experience with APS and I found ONE BG, and probably two dozen fish that looked almost identical to FH but were significantly larger [4"]. Not sure if they were bull males [if they ever grow to that size] or more likely a chub of some kind. Otherwise, considering the high qty of fish stocked AND their source [Ye Olde Fish Truck] I was very satisfied with my purchase.

Just thought I'd put in a good word for APS - in this case they did a solid job and I'd do it again [but would also hand sort!].

TJ

Good news, TJ! You'll be glad you took the time to hand sort.

I have to admit, although I'm pretty meticulous, I really enjoy the process.

Bags into the pond to acclimate slowly to pond water temps

Slowly introduce pond water and mix well

Do that again

Do that again

Do that again

Begin with half scoops - visual check - then into bucket with 3/4 pond water - 1/4 original water

Then scoop from bucket and hand sort into another bucket, 100% pond water

Then immerse myself just an inch or two above my boot waders so I accidently fill with 45 degree water, then get to the process of coaxing my fish to leave the safety of the bucket to do their thing.

I made this process far more time consuming than I needed to - I imagine I could have dumped each bag right into the pond and walked away, but I really do enjoy playing with my FH kiddos a bit before they leave the nest.

My wife watched this process for five minutes, declared me severely impaired, and went home.

Ah - silence at last!

Did you take pictures of the possible mystery minnow? I am curious what it may have been... I do not think FHM get that large, even a fully grown male. Bluntnose minnows which are closely related do, perhaps some bluntnose minnows were mixed in. If they were, you're lucky, personally I think they make better forage than FHM.

CJ

I didn't even think to bring a camera bc I was solo [wife blazed on me] and have dumped several digital cameras already doing the one handed thing.

I can say they looked identical to a FH in terms of coloration but did have more bottom oriented mouths and were much broader and longer. I'd say about 4" long. I'm disappointed I can't provide pics - with the mouth orientation in my limited minnow identification experience I thought it looked like some species of chub - but who knows. To be safe they ended up in the Little Bluestem and not in the pond.

Hard to tell, better to play it safe like you said though...

They were probably common carp!!

Yes, my fisheries management guru, Shawn Banks, recommended them along with Black Bullhead and Longnose Gar. Think that's a problem?

Throw in the GSF and lampreys while you're at it and you'll have one fine fishing hole! HAHA

hi guys, since you bring it up TJ, and since I will be stocking on Saturday the 11th, just how long does it take a bag of oxygen induced "hatchery water" (?) to acclimate to a pond? I'd hate for the neighbors cat or dog to drag off several of my hard earned dollars and devour some helpless fishes. The last time I just waited a few minutes and let 'em rip, I lost a handful of BG, but when you consider they rode from somewhere east of here in a cargo van, and there were to 1200 of them, I felt a handful of deceased was not too bad (I have small hands)! Thanks.

The part about placing clear bags of fish into the pond and let sit, should not be followed; especially if the sun is out and high. The water can warm up way too quick. The adding of cupfuls of water every couple of minutes acclimates them to the changing chemical conditions and temps.

Okay, suggestions on how to do it the right way? Recommendations? Advice? Helpful tips?

Strizzo

I let the bags sit for about 15 minutes, supervised, and it was a cold and cloudy day. Mainly I let them sit there while I got my buckets filled and ready for acclimation. Then I opened the bags and slowly introduced my pond water - adding about 1/4 of the volume with my pond water and doing so again every 5-10 minutes. Temp differences were only about 8 degrees, so I was more concerned with the chemical differences burgermeister indicated. The guys I've spoken with at hatcheries thought I was going through far too much time and effort - maybe it's just because they've gone thru the process a million times - but I like to err on the side of care.

I've stocked 2000 fish the last six months with no morts I can verify...and the slow introduction of the pond water has been the one consistent measure I've taken.

Alright TJ, thanks for the lesson, I'll try it out and we will see how it works. I hope to have some pictures of the event as well as some "fry flowers" I created today to post later, if I can remember how I did it!

Strizzo

Im no a stocking vet - so I'd talk to your hatchery and see what they suggest too. From what I've seen thus far it's not exactly rocket science...and I've had no problems stocking in 45 or up to 80 degree water.

Thanks, I'll be sure to ask them what they recommend.

TJ just saw this thread. I find it ironic you recommend arkansas pond stockers after receiving undesirable fish. This is the kind of thing that if I did this I would be out of business. I have never had a single fish go to a pond other than what they ordered. It is the cardinal sin in pond stocking business to have species that was not part of the plan. Glad you took time to go through the order but after hearing this no way would I suggest anyone getting fish from them.

Burger your right I had a client years ago say don't worry just sit them in the pond we will only be a few mins. We ran water quality on pond few hundred yards away. Tons of questions he kept asking and I said lets get to fish. Came back to dead fish. He blamed me and I had the fish alive for a 3 hr trip and did not get paid. He got free pond advice and I lost 6 hour day and cost of fish. Lesson learned the hard way.

As I've indicated on several occasions this was my first experience stocking from a "traveling fish truck", and I thought one BG out of 10 lbs of FH was acceptable. Not to mince words, but I don't recall "recommending" APS, I just thought it helpful to everyone if I related the details of my experience with the "traveling fish truck" and that I thought one BG was not a big deal....especially since I already have them stocked. So I said I was satisfied - considering the fact I was told to harbor low expectations, I was pretty happy without a bullhead, stickleback or carp in the bunch.

I really like hearing you say that even that BG was unacceptable. Too bad you're in GA and not closer to NE. I've been reading a lot of threads about accidental stockings and quite frankly assumed it was an inherent issue with any stocking. I was warned to have low expectations...so figured it was the reality of stocking. I've made no bones about this being my first experience with nearly everything I've done regarding ponds from concept to fulfillment, and I'm glad to have feedback like this to help establish expectations for future stockings.

In terms of allowing bags to acclimate to pond temps for 10 - 15 min in a pond being a sin - guess that's a lesson learned. I was instructed to do so by a couple of hatcheries and have never lost a fish to date following the practice. I would certainly never distribute an ounce of advice I had not followed myself successfully. Guess you and Burger have a divergent view - and I appreciate your experienced guidance.

Hey, Strizzo...don't allow your bags of fish to sit in the pond.

Well, don't let them sit indefinitely. Provided they were filled with pure O2, the stockers will be good for the time it takes for the bag water to come up (or down) to match the pond water temperature. Say 1/2 hour or so unless there was a huge difference in temp to begin with.

Gosh, that sounds vaguely familiar. Some days I'm just a clay pigeon. Guess there are indeed divergent views on the subject...now I don't know what to do in the future.

ONCE AGAIN, THANKS FOR ALL THE COMMENTS, GOOD AND BAD, ANY ISSUES WITH MIXING RECIEVED FISH(FROM THE SAME SUPPLIER, BUT DIFFERENT SPECIES)? SAY I GET 10 LBS OF MINNOWS AND 300 RES, CAN I DUMP BOTH TYPES IN A COOLER AND THEN SLOWLY, OVER A PERIOD OF TIME, ADD SOME POND WATER AND THEN TRANSFER THE WHOLE COOLER TO THE POND?

When I place bags of fish into water to equalize temps, I also cut slits in bag to let pond water seep into bags - then adios - no morts.

I don't examine fish - don't need to - I trust my supplier.

Had a successful event today, no "morts" as you guys say. I did have one rather large minnow(could have been a gold fish LOL) seemingly in distress, but I let him go seperately and he seemed to do okay. There were several odd ball fishes of different varieties, so maybe these folks aren't the best at sorting. There were some regular FHM in the mix as well as some crawfish.
Check out the pics under the "creating forage base" forum, since most were minnows. Thanks for the advice fellas. Happy Easter!

Strizzo - that's great to hear the day went well with no floaters. But I'm not sure how to interpret "lots of mixed fish". You mean your fish delivery included fish species you didn't order? I had one bluegill/thousands of FH. According to Greg Grimes even this margin of error was unacceptable and hatcheries should be held to a higher standard. I hope you didn't far worse than this????

From looking at the pic, I think I see at least a contamination of mosquitofish(gambusia), they are the darker colored fish mixed in with the rosy reds. They do not look like normal colored FHM, they have that greenish hue mosquitofish have. I hope they weren't a bad species of crayfish and I hope the larger old ball was a goldfish and not a carp or there weren't other smaller carp mixed in...



I COUNT AT LEAST 8 MOSQUITOFISH IN THE PHOTO...

Although they weren't ordered, Gambusia aren't going to harm his fishery...more the principle, I guess - wouldn't you agree?

Not at all... However, if they were in there, what else was?

Funny thing is, long after the bass have eaten all those rosy reds, those 8 or so mosquitofish will number in the 1000's and still be around! HAHA

And it will take a 1000 gams to equal one FH. There are valid reasons to both stocking or not stocking gams and or FH.

Upon an enlarged but not so great quality pic most of those brown fish appear to be regular FHs. That is a common event.

Well TJ, if I must report, the answer to your question is yes, there were many different fish. Now before some people freak, I need to ask: Do regular FHM mixed in with 10 lbs of Rosy Red minnows constitute mixed fish since they are the same species?(I think). I think the total was 4 crawfish. I'm no math wizzard so if you want a ratio you'll have to figure for yourself. The numbers of non-Rosies was say 10-15(?). You may see a few in the pictures.

Sorry guys, I jumped the gun and posted without reading the rest of the posts. What is a misquito fish? And from a few other posts I know you fellas like the Gambusia, but I have no idea what they are either. The questionable Goldfish (or dreaded carp, resembled the fish at the very top in the center of the photo CJ pasted here, thanks by the way, I did not want to flood the site with duplicates). Probably impossible to know for sure now, huh?

If I had to wager, I would say your fishery is going to be fine. I think most guys are just worried about rooks like ourselves and trying to look out for us - setting a standard we should come to expect from our hatcheries.

For me it's hard - not many choices in NE for fish delivered unless I want to drive 3-4 hours and pick them up. I don't want to accept substandard service, but don't feel its fair to freak out about one BG/10,000 FHM.

Mosquitofish Link

The above link will give you a rough idea what they are. They are a surface hugging fish you will see in the extreme shallows of your pond often near vegetation. They are livebearers much like a guppy. The female reaches a maximum length of maybe a bit over 2" and the male may reach a hair over an inch. They of all species of forage fish seem to hold their numbers under heavy predation. I think they make great forage for small juvenile predators.

In the picture, you'll notice all the ones I said were mosquitofish are on the surface of the bag making sense since mosquitofish are surface huggers. You'll also notice they are a greenish color, also a common attribute of mosquitofish when looking down on them from above when they are in the water. You will also see two yellowish colored ovals behind the eyes, very noticeable especially on the female in the middle of bag of fish. I think they will be a fine addition to your pond. Mosquitofish usually sell for a much higher price than rosy reds when bought, so you got a deal!

As far as normal colored FHM being mixed in with rosy reds, yes they are the same fish just a genetic morph. As long as the percentage is low, say 1-3%, I wouldn't have an issue with it...

Every day I feed breakfast to 10,000,000 Gambusia that are trained to kill me.

These are Fatheads.

If you really want to know what's going into your pond it is quite important to be able to tell forage fish species apart. As has been shown, some fish farms have contaminated fish stocks. I've been breeding and studying mosquitofish since I was 8. I can spot one in a school of 100 FHM...



Notice the fish I have labeled as mosquitofish. They are all smaller than average. Makes sense, as mosquitofish max out in size way smaller than FHM, whether wild colored or rosy. Also notice to the far left the normal or wild colored FHM in the picture. Notice the brown color, not the greenish color the mosquitofish have. Again, notice how all the mosquitofish are right at the surface. Again, they are surface fish unlike the FHM which are not. The only reason why some FHM are at the surface are the cramped conditions of the cooler and the gulping due to lack of DO. Last, notice how none of the fish I have labeled as mosquitofish have their mouths open to gulp air although they are at the surface unlike many of the rosy reds. This is because mosquitofish are even more low DO tolerant than FHM.



A cut of the above picture... Notice the larger fish that is contested, notice the faint yellow oval spots behind the eyes. Notice the other three are very small. If you look at the whole picture they are way smaller than the average fish again this makes sense since mosquitofish are smaller than FHM.



Here is a picture of both wild colored and rosy reds together. As labeled, notice the lack of yellowish oval dots behind the eyes. Also notice the browner color as compared to the mosquitofish which are greenish. Also notice the average size of the wild colored fish is the same as the rosy indicating they are in fact the same species and not different species.

Two pictures of wild mosquitofish, notice the yellowish oval spots behind their eyes...

TJ got a msg form you will return on the road tommmorrow. Quickly I guess this is what I meant about rec. "Just thought I'd put in a good word for APS". You have a godo attitude and yes it is more about principle. Bluegill cost more tha fhm and a gam ia bonus so you are fine. BUT what happens if one gets the dreaded green sunfish or common carp fry, etc. I think you understood my point. BTW I think Shaun Banks now sells fish he might be able to get you some.

I guess I should have used a bigger cooler! CJ, I appreciate the effort to clarify the situation. I am a novice at all of this, even the eventual joy of fishing this structured oasis. In the end, the error was made and all I can hope for is the best. Time will tell. (and so will I if I happen to find out anything different in the future!)

Strizzo - you have an awesome pond, a great qty and variation of fish stocked, are doing all the right things structure wise and creating a forage base. You are in GREAT shape! Most importantly you care enough about your projects to ask intelligent questions and care about getting things right. Nothing more to say than congratulations - and please keep posting pics and updates on the progress of your personal slice of heaven. Great work man!

I would drain the pond and start over.............kidding.

Good Luck, STRIZZO.

Stizzo, a few mosquitofish, green sunfish or even carp are not going to destroy your fishery. In all likelihood, if any not wanted species were mixed in with your rosies, they will be eaten long before that get a chance to establish.

Thats good news CJ, thanks.

CJ, give me a hand with this, please. You probably know more about gams than I do since I don't have any and they are rare or non existent in my area. All of my gam knowledge comes from this site.

How are you identifying them from the pic? All I see are some minnows that aren't orange. About all I can tell from the pic is that they aren't catfish. I don't have the PC technical knowledge to magnify them. How can you tell from the pic?

Dave

With magnification, it looks like the one in the middle is probably a gambusia. Cant tell about the rest.

IMO the photos of the fish are not clear enough to definately and positively tell what the non-rosey red fish are. For some species of fish it is very difficult to correctly identify them to species or subspecies from just a picture. To me the several darker fish in the photo do sort of look like Gambusia (mosquito fish), however it is also possible they are regular FHM. I try not to make definate identifications of fish species without clearly seeing the fish close up. Even then, it is beneficial to see more than one view of the fish. In my experience with Gambusia, they are relatively easy to identify if one has a GOOD close up photograph and not a sort of blurry one taken from a distance.

I am calling them mosquitofish because of their coloration, a more greenish hue than the darker brown FHM natural color. Also, when I blow the picture up on my computer and zoom in, the yellow oval spots to the rear of the eyes are a dead give away. The slight different in shape between the fish as well. Mosquitofish that are not pregnant have a very quick taper to their body. Also the way they are carrying their pectoral fins, they have a distinct cant to the side, where as FHM tend to hold them more closely to their sides.