Ok, not too sure how much experience you guys have with this, but here is the dilemma.

I'm off at college right now(CSULB) but at home we've got a liner made pond(aka The Bird Feeder) in our backyard. It is somewhere in the range of 1000-3000 gallons(very rough estimate). Anyway it is home to some goldfish(which never get much bigger than a foot prior to getting spirited away by egrets or green herons, 3 spine sticklebacks that made their way in with the plants, bullfrogs, and some bluespotted sunfish(aquarium fish).

Here is an old photo, it has since grown in much more. The shallow area slopes to about 2 feet and then drops to a deeper area of maybe 4 for a bit of an idea. The pond gets quite warm in the summer(guessing 75). It gets down to approx 40 in the winter, and has frozen over before(thin sheet). This is in Fresno, CA. I'm surprised the sticklebacks are doing ok but they hang out mainly in the deep side of the pond towards the fountain during the hottest times of year.


Anyway, when I get home I am going to be draining the pond, and removing all the fish to a seperate smaller one, to get rid of the sunfish(non-native). Is their any way I can ensure that they will no longer be present in the pond? I've heard throwing in lime in dirt ponds is used in FL fish farming operations to kill any fish remaining. Any other suggestions?

Anyway, that done I've toyed with several ideas for this pond.
-leave the sticklebacks and goldfish alone...and try to encourage pacific treefrogs
-put in a "pet catfish" plus some forage fish for it
-a few pumpkinseed/bluegill
-Sacramento perch or two?
-turtles(my dad is against the idea of an ugly fence around it though!)

The catfish and the perch would likely need to be raised in a net cage until big enough to be safe from the birds. I really don't mind them too much as they have never managed to eliminate the goldfish...and seeing them in the backyard is a cool treat.

Any thoughts on these? I've been told the pond is big enough for a few cats but it would seem a bit cramped to me. The obvious difference is this pond will have to be maintained more like an aquarium than a pond. I have done some fishing in here(bullfrogs, and the biggest bluespots can be removed this way). I'd love to do the last option but have no idea how you'd get ahold of our only native sunfish.

I understand the only legal way to get fish in CA is to obtain them from a licensed hatchery. Does anyone here know if they would sell the small quantities needed for this pond? Or if anyone nearby is willing to split an order?

Thanks!
~Joseph

Hey critterguy.

I think there are too many possibilities for your little pond. The native fish idea appeals to me, couldn't you fish for them?

GW (fish for brains)

They may well get too big to be eaten, but not too big to be possibly speared. Herons can have eyes bigger than their bellies.

Unless you are hung up on the idea of absolutely fishing there, which sorry to say from my point of view, it looks too small to fish in, I'd just use the pond for minnows. You could raise more fathead minnows than the herons could ever eat, plus you can feed them and enjoy watching them grow. If they got quite plentiful you could buy a couple channel cats to help keep the numbers down, or just let them multiply maybe sell bait? Maybe others can comment.

If you drain it dry your sunfish won't survive the renovation process.

Rosy Reds would be cool.

lime would kill the eggs and vegetation spores. I agree with Ric on rosey reds. 3 or 4 male pumkinseed and/or longear, redbreast sunfish would be pretty.

Joseph, there are several fish farms in your area. Goldenstate Bait in Merced and Speed Tech in Snelling both of them have Sacramento Perch (which is probably where I'm going to get SacPer). Speed Tech also sells Sacramento Blackfish and Sacramento Suckers. I have no idea about selling small quantities but I'll bet that if you called them and would pick up the fish and overpay a little (make it worth their while) then they would part with a small number.

If you click on this link --> California Registered Aquaculturists you will see a link to a pdf list of Aquaculturists (the first link on the page).

My Mom has a backyard koi pond. Her fish kept getting wiped out by herons. She installed one of those electric eye sprinkler things that spray when it senses motion. Worked great, no more herons. Occasionally she has to deal with a wet dog though.

And sometimes a wet JHAP too.

Good info. JHAP.

Great stuff Jeff. We did get one of those for cats and used it briefly but gave it to our grandma who's had a cat problem lately too. I think it needs new batteries among other things.
I actually have not seen the herons around lately but part of that is that their aren't any big pretty goldfish and as you can see the elodea keeps them pretty safe.(I'd imagine this stuff would be incredibly obnoxious in a big pond...in this little one is is a great method of nutrient export). I won't be home till winter though...would it still be possible to pick up fish then? I'd suppose spring would be best? Do you think Sacramento perch(how many) would work ok in this pond? What about the other two?

Do you have contact info for Goldenstate bait, and maybe the other hatchery?

Their is actually also a pond project going on at my highschool I graduated from. They currently have goldfish in their(for some odd reason the petstore reccomended convicts as algae eaters which of course didn't last the winter). Some natives for that pond would be great too.


Joe: Any fishing would be catch and release to teach a kid or two how to fish. Of course if the pond gets to crowded could always remove a fish or two and then cull the little ones.

We did add rosy reds/fatheads a few times in the early years of the pond...but they never persisted, I think it had something to do with the goldfish and bullfrogs eating them. In any case I think the 3 spines have taken over that niche though the former are likely superior forage fish.

I don't have any specific contacts at Goldenstate or Speed Tech but if you click on the link above you can download and print a list that contains contact info. I've spoken to both Goldenstate and Speed Tech on the phone but that's about it.

Sacramento Perch get fairly big (23 inches and over 3 pounds). I wouldn't think you could have very many fish that size in 1K to 3K gallons. I would think that a moderate number of them would do fine in your pond. As to how many, I'd leave that answer to one of our experts.

I wasn't going to mention that Sunil.



I believe my useful post count is up to seven. I'm telling you I'm on a roll in 2008.

I'm gaining on ya JHAP.

Well, if several could be added, do well, and have a chance at breeding they'd be the no. 1. choice I think.

Would signal crayfish be appropriate also? I'd rather not have something totally decimating the plants but their is a lot of elodea...we throw out bucketfuls of it each spring. If they'd consume that and ignore are more desirable plants(lilies, pickerelweed, hairgrass etc.) that'd be excellent. Look tasty, too!

I don't have any experience with crayfish.

Can someone else address the crayfish question?

C'mon guys!

If Sac. perch are too big, green sunfish would be an ok substitute. I can't find anyone offering pumpkinseeds or longears near me. Redear are pretty commonly raised it seems though.

Ah, Green Sunfish my most favorite sunfish. Grows to a fair size in California. DIED has them 11 inches long and 1.25 pounds. Also a great fighting fish, not to mention beautiful and extremely smart. I've never seen pumpkinseeds or longears for sale in California. Redears, Bluegill and Green Sunfish are available. Actually a Redear and Green Sunfish mix in your pond could be a lot of fun. Of course some folks will tell you that I'm biased toward GSF.

I'll go ahead and admit I am biased towards the idea of having natives, but GSF and Sac perch seem similar enough minus the size difference. Anyone here have any exp. with them?

Also, for such a pond could anyone suggest a possible management plan?

My best guess would be after several spawns thin out the fry to only 20 or so juveniles and remove the breeders every 2 years.

Critterguy: I have papershell crayfish in my small pond, and they seem to be doing well. Not to disruptive to vegetation, and SEEM to be prolific. I'll let you know more next year this time after I put in several pair of breeder LMB next summer.

Thanks! I've kept clarkii before in ponds and while in low densities the damage they did was not noticeable when we added several they promptly chopped the lily pads down. Perhaps riverine crayfish like papershells(and signal crayfish?) are different in that regard.

No thoughts on the pet catfish option?

I'll be back home this winter. I'll drain the pond, catch out the fish, probably add lime as suggested, and then hopefully get the real fish into it by spring

I would think that pond is a little small for a catfish, plus, aren't then a no-no in CA?

We can have Channel Cat, Blue Cat and Bullheads in California. I don't know about any other species.

Is it Washington state that can't have channel cats?

I don't know Sunil. California is so dang restrictive about other species though. Up north we can't have triploid grass carp, can't have Tilapia. I get that they don't want invasive species running amok. But jeez the Tilapia probably wouldn't live through winter here and the triploid grass carp can't reproduce. I can see requiring you to get a permit and limiting how many you can have but dang.

Critterguy,

Sorry I didn't see your post earlier. Golden State Bait's phone is (209)384-3474 they are nice people. I have a pond near Ave 12 & Hwy 99, just south of Madera. You can come up here and catch/net some fish and put them in your pond if would like.

Pond Boss working at it's best.

That would work great! What sp. do you have?

I've seen tilapia surviving in places that are pretty far North. A water reservoir in Folsom, CA had a thriving population of them.

Fathead Minnows, Mosquito Fish, Bluegill, Red Ear Sunfish, Channel Cats, Black Crappie, Largemouth Bass

The RES are the most difficult to catch right now for some reason

truer words have never been spoken here before.

For some reason RES are always the most difficult to catch at our pond. BG and GSF seem first to bite always. RES not so much. In fact since we stocked our pond with RES (well over a year ago) we have only caught one.

I'm sure they are in the pond, waiting, planning, plotting.

Got 2 albino channel cat fingerlings(3 incher and a 6 incher) growing now.

congrats critter guy,
i forget if you already talked about critters in yer yard, but i hope you dont have racoons too, those albinos wouldnt last long.

Critter guy I have to point out that the high visibility species are the ones constantly being nabbed out of your pond! I'd imagine it'd be pretty easy to spot an albino fish in your pond from the air. I've seen people string monofilament line across small ponds like yours to keep birds away. Would barely be able to see it and you wouldn't need much. Just a thought...