I have a 3 acre pond 99% lmb. I plan to stock about 5oo 3 to 6 inch native bluegill from Wallace Fish Farm.
As a gift I received $50 towards fish from Duns Fish Farm. They offer hybrid bg, channels, black crappie, grass carp, fat heads, and shell crackers.
Coppernose might be available, although they didn't plan to bring any on the truck when they deliver orders march 4. I have to pickup fish 45 miles away.
I have vegetation, not a problem, maybe a little to much.
I wasn't planning on stocking cats. Was thinking about crappie, after reading posts on crappies wasn't going to. Thought the hybrid bg might fertilize the natives and that offspring wouldn't be as reproductive so didn't know about that. Fatheads.. did someone say brunch?
Suggestions would be appreciated. z

Stick with the bluegill idea. Buy the biggest ones you can get. Hybrid bluegill won't help your bluegill. Hybrid bluegill are aggressive, grow fairly rapidly, but are not a benefit to a bass population. Crappie are a no-no...fathead minnows would be a snack. Redear in Kansas are "iffy", so that brings us back to bluegill. More bluegill are probably better, so see if gift certificate could buy native bluegills. That would give you fish from two different sources.

Why not channel catfish? Bob makes a good point about the bluegill strains but the occasional suprise from a big cat can add to the excitment and flavor of any pond. In many cases natural reproduction would be limited so these fish will be kepted in check. Bob go easy on me for suggesting this scenario.

I would concur with what Bob says. However 3 to 6 inch bluegill could be a snack too. Any way you can find some adults and plant them? Just be sure they are 100 percent bluegills.

Tried to catch some bg with the kids but no luck.
Will try again soon. Still plan to buy the natives from Wallace's.
The gift fish, were a present from my sister.
Duns only offers hybrid bg to this area, so won't do that.
Tried to talk them into some native or coppernose bg but no luck.
By process of elimination I'm down to red ear and channel.
Maybe some of both? One or the other? I'm starting to like the idea of different fish from her. Then if we catch a cat or red ear they'll be "gift" fish. z

I would definitely get some Redears. They may be "iffy" in Kansas, but if they make it in your pond I think you'll be glad you have them. I have found that they grow and are caught on live bait as well or better than Bluegills, plus they occupy a slightly different niche than BG. Toss in Snail control and it's a go.

Michigan DNR has had success getting RES established as far North as at least halfway up the lower peninsula. They have a .pdf publication titled "Redear Sunfish in Michigan" (or something like that, I don't have it on file at work) available on-line which shows where their RES have made it versus the number of average frost-free days in a year (Michigan has a high number of those for their Latitude since they're "between the lakes"). You might compare that with your Kansas climate to help make the decision.

zhkent, what do you want from your lake and how much time, effort and money are you willing to put into it in the long term?

Redears do very well up through central Nebraska and Iowa. Dave Willis can comment on the trials in SD.

I disagree with Bob Lusk about the hybrid bluegill. They are probably a one time thing. Bruce Condello explained on a different tread that their offspring tend to not be hardy. However, for that one time experience, they really are fun. They certainly won't replace bluegill.

Norm -- the book is still out on those two SD introductions. It's too soon to tell, and I'm not sure what to expect. We are very far north for redear sunfish. However, we did establish some darn nice redear populations (10-11 inch fish) when I was working in Kansas.

I would go with the redears, and cut down on yellow and black grub. You can always add catfish latter.

Norm,
My first priority is a nice place to swim. 2nd priority would be having a nice bass fishery for now. Want my 8 and 5 yr old and friends to be able to catch some fish.
Looking for low maintenance. The pond did well for me last year (first year it was full after making existing pond 3 times bigger). Swimming was great. And there were hundreds of baby bass. Kids had some luck catching the small ones.
Heres some pictures (no fish in them) web page
Kent

zhkent, what a great set of pictures! You have so much to be proud of. Your pictures show that there is so much more enjoyment to a lake than just fishing.

My simple advice is to keep it simple. start with LMB and Bluegill then add differnt fish when you and your fish are ready. I've done it that way and I have no major problems with my pond.

zhkent - Looking at your pictures, thats what pond livin' is all about. Our children ( I have a son/5 & daughter/7) will never forget the days of swimming, fishing and feeding their pet ducks down at the pond. What a great way to enjoy the lazy days of summer!!!!

Update,
Dad delivered 100 red ears 3/4 to 3" for me friday. The 500 native bg were to be delivered march 4 or 5. They were supposed to be mature.
The sun is finally out here in ks. Got back to pushing dirt and didn't get to see any of the fish yet.
Thanks all,

I had fished for bass several times trying to get as many bg eaters out as I could before the new fish arrived. It is my opinion that nearly all the bass spawned in 04 have been eaten. I caught 1 nice 21" bass. Nothing in stomach.

Bluegills, redears, and hybrid bluegills all are a good idea. I have all of those with LMB in my pond and the fishing is great. The best thing you could do if you want any kind of bream is to catch some eating size out of another pond & put in yours-that way the fish should be big enough bass won't eat them. Some people will tell you that is risky because you don't know what disease or something else may be in someone's pond but not in yours, but I've transfered fish from pond to pond for years and not had any problems.

Theo,

How many of those waters are deep natural lakes vs. smaller ponds that are subject to faster temp changes? I'm convinced redears in the northern end of their range survive only in deeper natural lakes where fast temp changes to cold water are buffered. I believe redears are stressed by cold temps but fair better if the water cools down slower as in big bodies of water. Additionally larger deeper bodies of water offer more of a warmer water refugim in winter albeit relatively warmer by on a degree or two.

Cecil:

I don't know the size/depth of the waters in question, but strongly suspect that since the state did the stocking they did it in larger, public bodies of water. The map of their RES successes is strongly affected by the climate-moderation from the great lakes. It runs considerably farther North along Lakes Michigan and Huron, dips South in the middle of the peninsula.

I don't think there is any question that larger, deeper bodies of water would have more moderate temperatures and temperature changes in the Winter. But in marginal situations, you don't know if it will or won't work until you try it. I bet if RES can make it anywhere in Nebraska and South Dakota, they can probably make it in a Kansas pond.

ZHKent - please let us know how your RES do, especially over Winter.

Cecil & Theo:

The lakes in the Michigan Study range from 50-750-acres. The largest fish (both RES and BG) were collected from the same 150-acre lake near the Indiana border with a maximum depth of 30'.

I stocked my 2-acre pond last year with a few RES and will obtain more adults this year. I'm hoping for good results due to my proximity to Lake Michigan (12-miles) and high rate of groundwater recharge. I'm hoping that the moderating effect of the inflow of 55-degree groundwater will make up for the small size of the pond. I'll let everyone know if we see any survivors this year. From what I've read on this board that may be difficult to verify by hook and line methods.

Would like to go fish that particular lake but haven't made a trip of it yet. The numbers in the report are pretty attractive to me, but probably not to those living further south.

Thanks for the additional info, Steve. Go Blue.

Sorry Theo,

Go Blue are fighting words

Go Green! Go White!

You darn Michiganders. A two-time graduate of OS and U offers an Olive Branch only to be thrashed with it.

You may remember my favorite headline from the Spartan student newspaper, "MSU leaves UofM Amazed and Blue."

Update on fish.
I have not seen any redears. They were pretty small stockers, don't think they had a chance to worry about cold weather.
The bluegills got off a couple spawns, saw a couple of the stocked bluegills, pretty nice size.
Have a lot of crawdads too.
Have kept harvesting bass we catch to help reduce preasure on bg. Most bass caught were the same size, about 6-8" earlier this year, around 10" or so now. Probably harvested 70-100 fish.
Was told that I have Kentucky Large Mouth Bass.
Questions; Should I keep harvesting bass? They are getting harder to catch.
Do I need some different bass?
Will bg young be big enough next year to kind of start sustaining the pond?
I still have a couple larger bass, should they be harvested?
Estimate of how many years till nice fishery.
Probably 20 small bg hang out in the turtle trap, guess the bass can't get in. I feed them when I get the chance.

I reread the thread; glad you posted back with an update. Sorry the RES didn't seem to make it (or maybe they did - just harder to catch. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you).

What are the bass' condition like? Do you know any weights/lengths of the bass you've removed?

I can't recall your emphasis in the pond: big bass or what?

Theo,
Good water to swim in, bass that will excite kids'.
My wife actually caught fish off one side of the dock while kids swam off the end and other side.
I did leave out some important info. Last year the cattails and willows came on. bad. Cattails around 2/3 of pond.
It worked ot last fall a friend dug a lot of rock out of a basement. We hauled it over and made it about all the way around the pond, putting it on thick enough to bury the cattails.
I think it was hard on the bg removing so much cover in about a day. Also just dug out and removed some offending shoreline areas with the excavator.
The water had less visibility this spring, due to decaying mass.
Walking the edge of pond after dark with a good light there would be lots of small fry and tiny crawdads in the rocks this summer, only see a few now.
The fish were catching looked healthy, only 3 or 4 had worms. Most had empty tummys, occasional crawdad. The last ones we caught looked great, real nice color.
Side note- I wouldn't recomend trying to keep the cattails from coming back by weed eating them, but it can be done.

Thought this was a bluegill, then was looking at Bruces pictures of his bg and noticed no red on his.

That's a gorgeous redear sunfish. Do you have lots of those? If so, can I come fishing?

Bruce will tell you to be careful those RES are mean. Nice RES which is a long past BG cousin. There are a number of threads hear on RES. Here is a PB link to some of the cousins.

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=22;t=000034

Bruce,
Thanks and you're welcome to come and fish.
Not sure how many there are, may stock more.
May stock some more bg too.
This leads me to a question.
If I start feeding my bg regularly will it effect the water clarity over time?
Have also wondered about in the future, when the forage base is built up, adding some florida lmb? Wouldn't some of the offspring be fh1?.
Theo,
Thanks for keeping your fingers crossed, it worked. Will try to get some weights and measures on the bass. Been thinking about my goals, 1 swimming, 2 readily being able to catch nice lmb, 3 eating nice lmb, 4 trophy lmb.
Ewest,
Thanks for the link.

How far of a drive are you from Lincoln, NE? I'd drive quite a ways to fish for nice redears.

To far north for Fla LMB or CNBG , F-1 may do ok but regular LMB would probably give you the best results. How far north in Kansas are you ?

Bruce,
About 280 to lincoln. Burlngton is 60 miles south of topeka on 75 hwy, pond is 10 miles from town.
Come on down. Could get the ok to fish some other ponds as well.
Ewest,
About 80 miles to Oklahoma. Are Kentucky bass considered regular lmb?

On my goals for the pond forgot to put being able to catch bg and res.

SPOTTED BASS. Scientific Name: Micropterus punctulatus. Other Common Names: spot, Kentucky bass.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/species/spb/

They are not regular LMB. They tend to like moving water and can withstand cold water much better than Fla LMB.

There is a study of Fla LMB in Okla which I can find and link.