What happens when your pond fills up faster than you expected? Last Wednesday I was the proud new owner of a freshly finished dam and a dry 7-8 acre pond bed. Today I am the proud owner of a 7-8 acre pond half full of water! After 2" of rain over the weekend, I learned what 200+ acres of watershed means. I haven't even had time to finish sowing seed. Anyway, I was thnking maybe I had 6 months or longer before I would be asking this question, but how soon can I begin a stocking program? Will there be any natural food source for BG fingerlings this soon? And how soon before beginning on my main goal of LMB and SMB? The pond is filling up at a rate of about a foot per day currently, and I am expecting more rain this week, so I see that water flow increasing instead of slowing. So far the water clears up pretty fast.

With the rain headed your way on radar (some at 6-7inches) you should wait a while even though you have enough water now. You may get an early test of your system.

Appreciate the heads up ewest. I figure I have about 5 acres under water ranging from 1-8 feet deepest at dam. I thought I would be at least Fall before stocking, so I am pleased at prospect of much earlier. Another question: Is it a good idea to transfer fish from a different lake over to your pond? Kids and I have been fishing this spring in local resovoir for BG and catching some pretty big ones. it is only about 10 minutes from my pond. Would it be a bad idea to bring some back and turn loose to have some adult BG in our pond this spring?

By the way, I have a few kinfolk in the magnolia state. What part do you call home?

In general, you do not want to stock any fish in your pond that don't have a food supply waiting for them. In a newly filled pond, i would not stock adult BG as the larger invertebrates that are their preferred feed have not had time to grow. Even larger phytoplankton, such as daphnia, which they could feed on are probably in short supply.

Now, I will be putting adult RES in a pond with 6 month old water in a month or two. This is with the understanding that they are pellet trained and I will provide Aquamax 600 for them to live on if there is not enough natural food to fill up on. So if you provide fish feed for the BG you put in, I guess you would be doing the same thing I am (maybe a little sooner), especially if the BG were used to taking pelleted feed first (BG could probably get used to eating pellets in a week or two in a small tank).

Another possible problem with transferring wild fish is the potential for introducing diseases or parasites with them, which of course is unaffected by the age of your pond.

Thx for the good info Theo. That is why I come to this site. I am not concerned with having to feed the BG myself, but I would be concerned with disease, parasites, etc. I did not realize the threat that posed. I certainly don't want to have to work on a problem that I started myself. Is there anything I can do with a new pond that will encourage or help mother nature along with the phytoplankton food source? Also, how about FH or shners, etc. I noticed that you can order them shipped in pretty large quantities for an economical price. Will I face the same issues of natural food source for them? Can I feed them myself? I have noticed mosquitoes already hatching on the water surface even though it has only been a short time of standing water. Will that provide a food source for minnows?

FHM are a good starting point for just about any species or combo one might want to manage a pond for. GSH are almost as versatile and probably more useful when called for. Either could probably be stocked into your new pond soon.

I am personally experienced with stocking smaller numbers of adult/juvenile FHM & GSH (although it seems kind of strange to refer to "small numbers" for either - this means the 5000-6000 FHM I stocked last Friday is a small number) rather than the now available 250,000 & up numbers of fry that can be shipped in. I am not really sure how the two methods compare, having never done the math. But I am sure a good forage base can be started either way, using proper numbers and timing.

Just what kind of fish do you want to have? Big bass, big BG, huge catfish - you tell us.

WRT priming the plankton pump, some of us inoculate a new pond with some water from a pond that we know does not contain undesirable plants, bugs, etc. I did (heck, I even purposefully stocked SNAILS!) Theoretically, at least, this has the same risks as adding fish caught elsewhere. I would not pursue this practice if unsure of the source water, as all those little plants and critters will voluntarily show up (apt for Tennessee, eh?) on there own via air, water birds, and alien spaceships hauling GSF and Bullheads.

Theo you mention another thing I failed to consider. Water from another source. About 300 yds down the pasture from my new "pond" is an old small farm pond that we had given up on because of sink holes. It seems the guys that dug it out thought it was a good idea to bury some concrete debri etc in one corner. Surprise that it leaks like an old farm truck. (More expensive to fix than buying another one in other words). Anyway, that little pond teems with little minnows, snails, frogs, and typical aquatic life. Then summer comes and it gets real shallow and ugly. More like a big slimy mud hole than a pond. So maybe I could use that as a source of priming the plankton pump. I have seen lots of minnows and of course when the wind blows up hundreds of snails along the bank. The same spring that feeds my pond has been feeding it too. Could I get any good use out of it that way?

I can't recommend it unless you have good knowledge/history of what is in it. I transferred 5 gallons of water from my first pond, that I have 7 years experience with. And IME only crazy PMs trying to feed RES even want snails.

Wild minnow identification REALLY scares me. The more Bill Cody talks, the more I realize I don't know. And many species of rough fish are fairly easily confused with minnows when they are small.

Those pictures are taken 5 days after I closed up the pipe. Points all well taken Theo. I will just start ordering some FHM and begin there. I want to have LMB and BG primarily. Eventually will look at some SMB too.

I would wait until I had a good plankton bloom before I dumped in any fish. The FH will scatter and there will be no way to feed them. I would give it a month and test the water for alkilinity and Ph. Then, figure out if it was time to stock based on water clarity as determined by a sechi disk reading.

Thx for the advice Dave. That sounds like a better approach. Give me time to pay all the construction bills too. What do you think about doing one of those 250K fry orders?

I guess it depends on what they are calling fry. The smaller the fish, the more delicate they are. I've never handled any tiny fry and guess it would be OK. Not sure. What is the price?

About 10 pounds of adult fatheads can pop out a lot of future groceries in a short time. Of course, that assumes that they have structure to attach the eggs to. That would be rocks, trees, or pallets or. With adult fatheads you could go ahead and stock BG or something else. Not sure I would with fry.

I saw an ad the other night on the site for Anderson Farms in Ark. They are advertising 250K GSH for $250 or so I think. I will check it out more. But I do have lots of structure in the pond for FH to work with.

Fatheads are, from my observation, a shallow water fish. You might have to litter up the area close to shore for spawning. You can put a bunch of pallets in 1 ft. water with a rock on them. When the predators have pretty well decimated the fatheads, to can drag out the pallets if you don't want them.

On another line, what are the chances of having both SMB with the LMB? Will both of them in the same pond stunt the growth of one or the other?

Pondsea

Your smb and lmb question could be addressed very aptly by Bruce Condello or several other experienced pond managers in the forum. The reason I'm responding is because I too am facing that dilemma - I LOVE SMB but also relish the opportunity to blow the NE state record LMB out of the water! I am planning on stocking both but at a 3 SMB - 1 LMB ratio as recommended somewhere in this forum. Further it's important to note I will not only be assertively pellet feeding but will also be stocking constantly with FHM in several stock tanks by my pond in which I'll be raising them.

BTW - your pond looks absolutely great. I hope the rain continues and let me know how that Anderson Farms dealio works out for you - I just noticed it too - "seems" too good to be true?

Wee Lunker

LMB typically outperform SMB in a number of ways. They are more aggressive at feeding (Cecil recently offered eyewitness testimonial to this). They have bigger mouths to allow them to swallow prey that a SMB of the same size can't handle yet. They are much more successful with spawning and recruitment. Dr. Willis has had article(s) in PB Mag showing that in SMB lakes where LMB are introduced, the number of SMB steadily decreases over time (as the number of LMB increases). IIRC, the mean time to SMB being effectively eliminated runs 10-12 years in these situations.

You could have both SMB and LMB in the same pond, but the SMB will probably fair poorer and will likely need restocking (even if suitable spawning structure for them is available) to maintain a long-term presence.

Will the pixel police please step in and correct this problem - it's driving me nuts...

Have I got another annoying avatar, george?

For SMB vs LMB read this entire thread.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=16774&fpart=1

"Our electrofishing survey in July 2005 showed YOY recruitment of both SMB and LMB, with LMB fingerlings outnumbering the SMB fingerlings by 20 to 1 (WOW!), even though SMB adults outnumbered LMB adults by about 3 to 1. It’s sure tough for the SMB to compete."

Dave, you say that FH will scatter and be hard to feed. I want to put FH into my recently filled pond and am wondering that since I have all of my structure in about a 100' area of shoreline that they might congregate there if dumped there and fed right then? Theo, I don't want to hijack another thread so I will comment on your stocking of mature, pellet trained RES in your new snail infested pond on Rexcramers post after I make my first stocking, hopefully next week. Go feed yer cows!

Snail "infected" is more like it. I WISH it had half of the snails in it that were lining the shore of my older pond last Fall - 15 or so per linear foot.

Thank you for the clarification, Mr. Gallus. Would you take a moment to relate your two cents on this scenario:

Stock SMB but introduce all female or male LMB to prevent their reproduction. I'm thinking this would achieve maintaining a healthy SMB population but still having an opportunity to haul in one of 25 or 50 lunker LMB. Would this scenario work for Pondsea or myself if we wanted dual species and also achieve a balance?

Thank you in advance!

TJ

Theo

This is a great thread you provided - I will try to do better to search for them to spare the reiteration!

If time allows let me know your opinion on the all male or female LMB idea to eliminate reproduction - and thank you in advance.

TJ

tj:

I think breeding SMB with single sex LMB would eliminate many of the difficulties experienced if the LMB population were also breeding. The LMB would still be top o' the heap in predation, but the impact on the SMB would be limited along with LMB numbers.

SMB are supposed to feed train easier than LMB (I intend to find out about that in 3-5 years), so one could pellet train (some of) the SMB, which might even out the above remaining bias to some extent.

I have referred your question for Mr. Gallus to my Dad , Grandpa Gallus having passed some years ago.

You could end up with LMB X SMB crosses.

Ewest/Theo: Thank you for both taking time to respond. Sounds as though it's a worthwhile effort on my part to attempt the project - the SMB might stand a fighting chance. I've never read anything about LMB/SMB hybrids - I will do so now.

Ewest - eager to hear your Dad's feedback. Sorry bout the formality - force of habit at my job here all day!

TJ

TJ I called Anderson Farms yesterday and talked to Max. Sort of like asking a quesiton on this site. You get a lot more than you bargained for. Anyway, they do ship out a box of 250K min order of GSH fry when they are available this spring. The price was around $250. Max was really helpful. Gave me more nifo than I asked for, and seemed to care about whether I did things the right way. Anyway, he recommended waiting on a plankton bloom before dumping in all those fry. In the mean time, I might just do some adult FH and feed them. With all the rain we are having though I can't get down to the water without getting ten pounds of mud on my boots. So I might wait a few weeks for it to dry up some anyway.

Thank you Pondsea - I may PM you for some details or buzz the Anderson's myself. I don't think GSH will do well this far North [Zone 5] but am really interested in establishing and hopefully keeping a nice breeding stock of FH so I can constantly feed the pond[s]. Sounds like more work than I need to trouble with, but I have this ITCH developing over the past couple months that just won't go away - and all I want to do is breed and selectively stock and sell fish! If my wife had any idea of what I was running through my mind in my office all night on this forum she'd lock up the checkbook and have me committed. Please keep in touch and let me know how that great project of yours comes along - I'm right behind you and can use any advice you have.

TJ

Bob-O, interesting question and I'm not sure how well fatheads orient to structure except when spawning. I generally find bunches of them pretty well dispersed and quite often in shallower water (sometimes less than 2 to 3 inches)that is devoid of cover. I have also walked the perimeter of a small pond tossing food to them. I have a bunch of one to five ft deep brush structure in the upper end of one of my my ponds. It sticks out of the water and I often tossed feed into it. Never saw a fathead there, just BG.

About 3 years ago, I stocked a guys pond who wanted no brush cover. I put some decent sized logs and tree stumps in the water. They extended from the bank into about 4 ft. of water and were weighted on the end. The fatheads did use them for spawning.

Their value as a kick off forage is that they are a slow swimming, shallow water fish. However, I once saw a pretty good sized school of them fleeing some newly stocked CCs about 50 yds from shore. Of course, I have no idea where the herding started.