I always have a over abundance of the Fowlers (most) & Southern Toads (#2 on the depth chart) around the property. In years past it has got to the point that I am constantly having to clean off toad droppings from the porch from May until Oct.. Right now I probably have 100 tadpoles for every linear foot around the 3ac pond in front of my house (about 100' downhill from level yard area)(pic attached of house and pond from last weekend to give you a feel of the lay out).
Any ideas on how to handle such a problem?

BTW I think part of what caused my Toad problem is I pretty much have cleaned up alot of the wooded and pond area to do away with the snakes that feed on them. Was thinking of the childrens safety there.

Remove the predator, the prey will thrive. Not sure there are any controls that will not also be toxic to the other aquatic life.

I have used a small net stretched across the bank( on land)to funnel young bullfrogs into a bucket I buried in the middle. They are probably attracted to your lights at night, and that could draw them up hill into the bucket. If you stretched it all the way across your yard in a big v with the bucket at the top. But I don't know how small they are when they morph into frogs u may not be able to find mesh that small. Just food for thought.

If you have that many toads, think of what harmful bugs and slugs they are eliminating! Much rather have toad crap than slugs all over.

Instar they had to go after having to stand still and be handed a board to pin the head of a mocassin down on my porch before I could move.

Cray good idea since all I want to do is decrease some of the numbers, I can then transport them to the 15 ac lake across the road.

Liquid about 90% of frogs carry some form of Salmonella. I have a toddler in the house and was thinking of ways to keep the over exposure from bringing too much risk to the house play area. Atleast until she reaches the CDC recommended age of 5.

Thanks to all.

Yeah, the kid equation makes a difference.

Since I grew up looking for frogs, turtles, snakes, and toads as pets by wading in swamps up to my eyeballs, I probably have been well vaccinated to most naturally occurring nasties. Explains a lot really...

Where did you get the information that 90% of wild frogs carry salmonella? I am aware of the problem in the pet trade, but not wild amphibians.

http://www.ehow.com/about_6568586_frogs-salmonella.html#page=0

Another source
"Salmonella By: Dr. Nancy Anderson"
Up to 90 percent of reptiles carry Salmonella in their intestinal tracts, which is then shed in the feces.

Reader beware! That site appears to collect articles by people that write articles for a living on many different topics without actual qualifications in the areas they write about. They probably just search the Internet and paste an article together.

Here are the professional qualifications of the writer that claims 90 percent of frogs carry salmonella:

Danyel Bierly began writing professionally in 1992. Her poems have appeared in "Expressions" magazine and her writing focuses on topics dealing with animals and health. Bierly received a certificate in dental assisting at Rio Salado College and is a lead dental assistant at a dental university.

I don't know about you but I'd trust an article on frogs from a certified professional in the field vs. a dental assistant that writes poems.

I recently read an article that warned about the dangers of mercury in farmed fish but the author had no credentials whatsoever in the field. Her degree was in psychology and it was obvious she had a bias against fish farming.

"The trouble with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are genuine.” —Abraham Lincoln


'nuff said.

I am not a herpetologist, but I am a research scientist. I find that Google Scholar is a good way to see if any actual study supports claims. I could not find any study with wild frogs in North America, but there are papers on Australian frogs and the frog-leg trade. Just hate to see animals destroyed without a good reason.

Here is the FDA warning on Frogs.
http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/CVMUpdates/ucm193349.htm

I just pulled info from the internet since I knew the local pediatricians are warning about Salmonella for children under 5. This all came about because of a recent trip to the Dr..

The Dr did not give a %, but just said most. I just did a quote from a person that had told me that when asked them to look it up origionally.

Any how frogs do pose a risk for little ones which is my point.

Thanks for the interest and the intentions to make sure I was aware of what I am talking about as the actual % may be wrong.

Rah I am looking to destroy, but control the problem I created for myself. I am a grog fan.

My thoughts exactly RAH!

Tums,

I don't think anyone was saying you aren't aware of what you are talking about. I know I wasn't. In fact I commend your diligence. I just know there are writers pulling stats out of their you know what that aren't close to being authorities in what they write about. It's even worse when they have a bias as in my fish farming example.

But we all need to be cautious and check the writers credentials and sources.

Once thing I've always found amusing with percentages is if something is 51 percent writers typically call that a majority. To me that's more like half!

Cecil, I understand and never took as anyone meaning any ill will. I (like all) will be wrong on occasions and need people to question for correction.

For you and RAH I had also posed this same question to some knowledgeable people that have been to my domicile. Here is some of the answers I received that seems pretty reasonable and environmental friendly.

1. Catch and move tadpoles by netting and move to your other lakes.
2. Place yellow insect lighting outside and close your blinds & curtains on the pond side of the house at night. This will stop you from drawing the frogs food source to your house.
3. Place Solar lighting in other areas to draw them and their food source another direction.
4. Have power company install lighting on poles on opposite side of pond to draw that direction.

If you are thinking about catching and removing the tadpoles it will be simpler and much easier to remove the eggs. Eggs don't swim and will lie still for several days before hatching for simplier netting for removal. Transport eggs to another location. Toad eggs are almost always laid along shore and stay there for several days for easy collection with a net.

Thanks Bill, I will be on the look out for eggs also. Here we have had tadpoles for weeks now. I probably have a few hundred thousand tadpoles already.
Thanks again

FYI - Moving amphibians and reptiles is generally illegal.

Tums:

In my pond, in previous years I've had 300' of shoreline solid black for 18" to 24" out from shore in toad tadpoles. Couple of weeks later they were down to at the most 10% of that area, and another week or so after that there were only a couple of 3'-4' patches of them that were maybe 6" wide. Both small LMB and BG had a field day with the tadpoles. I'll see maybe 20-30 toads all year long. No snake problem here either.

RAH (according to the local game official I talked with this morning) here we can not move them to natural rivers, creeks, streams, or public waters. Relocating on private property without direct access to any of those water previously stated is ok. The officer also said we can not transport for sale without proper paperwork and permits.

Esshup Part of my problem is a lack of predators this year (not only the snakes I removed) for the tadpoles and frogs. The LMB will not be moved into this pond until later this year. The juvi BG have so much natural forage (35K+ in minnows alone per surface acre) & also feed that I have not even seen them attempt to eat a tadpole. This is the 3AC BCP (500 just put in this month) pond and has just over 300 BG per acre at present.

In hind sight I made my situation with the tadpoles / frogs myself. It looks like it will just result in some work and expense on me and I have extra forage for the other ponds in the end.

whoaaa....as a kid me and buddies spent countless lazy summer days down at the creek catching frogs, giant tadpoles, ect...don't remember ever getting sick....did get some warts...not sure if that was related...thank God for that tape you can buy and stick on a wart to remove. I see lots of tiny frogs at my pond and always thought it was a good source of food for the fish.

Ya mean duct tape, right?

Tums, this might be a one year only problem for you, so I wouldn't get too worried about it.

Growing up in the city M-F and in the country the rest of the week, I think that the more that kids are protected from natures "nasties" the more susceptible they will be to other things later in life.

Just my thinking here, but better to have them exposed to low levels of stuff and build up a good immune system vs. keeping them away from as much as possible. Not saying to go the other direction mind ya.....

As an example, IIRC studies were done showing city kids had more allergies than kids from the country.

I'm not sure I'd trust a long armed dentist who waxes eloquent about bluegills, either.

Zep it does not really apply to all kids, it mainly effects little ones that have not built up a good immune system yet.

Esshup I think along those lines myself.

Tums I honestly did not know you can build up immunity to salmonella poisoning. I thought if you ingested salmonella you got sick regardless....learn something everyday. Thanks.

Ha Ha! How did I know that was coming?

Actually he did stay at a Holiday Inn Express a few nights!

I think you can become immune to salmonella itself, but its digestive byproducts are nasty (i.e. food poisoning). From what I understand that if you ingest the wrong type that are stomach-acid resistive, those byproducts in your gut is what gets you good and sick.

With that said, salmonella is EVERYWHERE. The question is what may expose you to too much or certain nasty strains.

Tums they are pretty easy to trap,essentially all you need is a bucket and a light to attract bugs.We used to use the 4 gal square kitty litter buckets but any old bucket will work.Find a spot that looks toady and is away from where a little one might fall in,dig a hole that fits around the bucket snug and flush with the ground,hang a light that will attract bugs about 2-3ft above the bucket and you're done.

It doesnt harm them as long as you remember to check and relocate them in the morning.If you wont be around just put a lid on the bucket and the trap is out of order.Last thing is you may want to experiment with different bulbs and distances for the best results.

I just came back from doing an aquaculture presentation to several county health department employees. When I asked them about the toads and salmonella they rolled their eyes and didn't think it was a big deal.

My friends tell me that I remind them of "Si" on "Duck Dynasty." He is a few years younger. I too have a beard and glasses. I can only apologize if I'm way crazy.

Well into the last century, my friends and cousins played with pollywogs, salamanders, frogs, toads, etc.,. My grandkids and I still capture and play with these critters.

My kids were allowed to take many different kinds of turtles/tortoises/amphibians/fishes in "for the night" -- actually they usually stayed for at least a week before they were put back where they were found.

My granddaughter and I have 20-gallon aquarium with a bunch of different pollywogs -- toads, bullfrogs -- whatever is swimming in the settlement ponds.

Can't kids ride bicycles without armour? Can't kids have sling shots to shoot acorns, or a BB gun to shoot out their eyes?

What are we becoming?

I'm going out to the front porch to make sure my toads have adequate forage for the next few weeks!

The Curmudgeon

Thanks Robert I like that.

Cecil that is a general consensus for most (I use to be one also about 6 years ago). Then you think different when you get into the realm of what I have going on around my house now. Tell them that you will at times have some children with Cancer under going treatments with a weak immune system and you see what happens when you ask that same question. You must remember the purpose for the BCP pond itself is for people sick, disabled ect.. .I will have those types sitting and playing on that very porch. My 2 year old building up her immunity is not my only concern in my case. 4 out of the last 5 weeks I have had hospital personnel bringing out kids to shoot paint ball guns for free. The last thing I want to be is too laid back and cause someone a set back.

Cat try that with my friends 5 year old with cancer (that has to where a mask to go out in public) and you may be buying flowers. Not everyone is fortunate to have the good health you, yours, and I enjoy. Right at 5 years ago I started reaching out to do things with people with health issues from time to time. I try and bring a slice of that good life you and I are enjoying to people that can not enjoy the things most of us do. The 8 year old in my house rides a bicycle with no protection. My friends 5yr old fighting cancer looks like sponge bob on wheels. I have been hosting children 8 and up shooting clays for 2 years now (instead of those BB guns). You are more than welcome to come get some of my toads for your porch.

Tums,

I wasn't aware of the cancer immune issues. I must have missed that. I apologize profusely.

Tums,toad removal/reduction was one of the many things we had to do before my good friends little sister(they are 21 years apart) could come home from Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.Along with a super cleansing of the house after her battle with AML leukemia.She has been in remission for about 3 years now and was just allowed back to school this year,although they still don't want her on the bus.Now she still has problems from the side effects of the chemo and bone marrow transplant.They don't affect her immune system yet they are cautions about things she can and cant be exposed to and this is years after she beat it into remission.

Here is a webpage a friend of the family did for her and the fundraisers they has for her http://magicformacey.com/

along with a video while she was in C.H.O.P.

Cacil you did not miss it and as far as I know I have never before just straight stated of Cancer patients being present. I often refer to people with health issues as physically challenged which would not indicate a single issue and or single them out. That is what the psychologist suggest to keep from causing the kids to feel singled out emotionally since all they want is to be a normal child. Your not knowing is nothing to do with you, but how I present things.

Robert thank you very much for that information & the Heart touching video. I know what you mean about the cleaning. I have had to have my septic tank pumped out lately because all the bacteria killing even killed too much Bacteria in my septic tank.

I often refer to people with health issues as physically challenged which would not indicate a single issue and or single them out.
I resemble that remark...

88 years old after eating bugs, dirt, playing with horned toads - gigging bullfrogs growing up, and ending up with ten years of two unrelated life threatening cancers.
Sorry...
Now three pack a day cigarette smoking - breathing galvanize welding fumes and artillery smoke and all kind of chemical fumes is another matter....
George

George glad you are still here to share with us. It sounds like you have lived a good life with some ups and downs. I enjoy sitting around and talking with people more experienced like you. You just reminded me of the fun I had gigging with my dad in my early years. My first wife shut down my frog gigging around 23 years ago. And to think my current Wife (second) would have been about 8 yrs old then. I might need to take here frog gigging.

I grew up on a farm before things where so regulated and have tasted / smelled my share of chemicals and dirt. A far cry from the yuppie world I have around me today. I often think about how much times have changed every Sunday (on my way to church) when I drive by Robert Richie's (Kid Rock) place, then Hank Jr.'s place and then the old Almeria Club where Hank Sr. performed at.
BTW They have some nice lakes.

Originally Posted By: Tums

George glad you are still here to share with us. It sounds like you have lived a good life with some ups and downs. .

ME TOO Tums - ME TOO!
Secret is hard work and clean livin' -
Thanks,
George

Uh Oh - I am doomed...

I missed it also Cecil... Tums, You totally caught me off guard on your response! How about a little more info "earlier" next time.

Prayers to you and your young friends.

Posts made in "good faith" among the kind hearted people here , even if not totally correct in context , do not require an apology.

Tums - good for you in reaching out to help. Another example of a shining point of light in a sometimes harsh and brutal world. Well done !

Maybe a rubber snake or two by your porch?

Fake owls seem to work well in keeping pesty birds away. Especially when you move the location periodically.

Exactly, listening to the professionals today my parents should have been jailed. Id toddle all over creation as a toddler, when we went to see grandma in KY as young as 3 or 4 Id wander all over the farm barefoot, chasin chickens, cats, bugs, snakes, toads. My brother got ringworm from cats and such I don't know how many times. No helmets or pads on when we rode bikes, no seatbelts in the car. Today most kids look pasty white, chunky, and scared of their own shadow. During summer mom would lock the screen door so we wouldn't keep going in or out, need a drink, theres the garden hose, now they say that will kill ya. We would dare each other to lick a toad, guess we were dumb, but wait, I raise my kids the same as I was raised, except now we live on farm full time, so far my kids are alright, maybe they're backwoods hillbillies, but that doesn't bother me none

But here I'm talking about the healthy kids, the ones lying about with no excuse except over protective parents and laziness. Now if one unfortunately has succumbed to a debilitating illness all due diligence must be paid to help them have some since of normalcy in their lives.

Praise God I never had an immunity issue, (except stupid seasonal allergies, thank God for antihistamines) But when I was 17 I was hit by a car while riding a motor bike, and was bed bound, then wheelchair bound for a year. Though only for a year, that year not being able to do what I enjoyed most was the longest most miserable year of my life. God used it to humble me, and help me to appreciate my good health, and be more sensitive to those not so equally blessed. So God bless you Tums for being willing to modify your life and make room for those special people.