I have access to a virtually unlimited amount of broken concrete pieces if I want to add this habitat to my pond. To recap, my pond is just under an acre, still being dug out. I will be stocking FHM, GSH, SMB, RES, YP, and HSB. I will be placing pvc structure, have about 10 made up currently with material for more. My question would be if it would benefit my fishery enough to make up for lost jigs. I am willing to sacrifice some displaced lures and broken lines if placing rocky habitat will substantially benefit the fishery. Because of my choice of species I realize forage will be an ongoing project, so I was thinking having that rocky habitat in there, a lot of it potentially, would benefit the forage species like FHM, GSH, shrimp, crayfish, etc. Experts tell me, if this were your BOW, would you place rock? And how much?

You are lucky to have access to used concrete materials. Mixed sizes are good. Or you can group it into areas with uniform sizes. I like all sizes of broken sidewalk pieces (2"-5" thick) from reconstruction projects. Used concrete does contribute come hardness to the water but this is normally good. Often used concrete does develop a healthy or heavy growth of FA which frequently sloughs and can be good or bad. Crayfish will use heavily the concrete areas. Small fish will frequent the areas with large voids of the concrete piles. Submerged concrete pieces are ideal for minnows FHM and bluntnose minnows that deposit eggs on the underside of submerged objects.

Considering your planned species, I would rip-rap at least two complete shorelines. One or two shorelines with no or minimal concrete or some isolated large piles on the slope will add some habitat diversity and will allow some natural submerged weed growth in the future - more habitat diversity. Start with down wind shore first. Start concrete at high water line and then down to at least to what you expect to be the low water line level or a downward linear distance of 6-10ft. In some areas it would not hurt, anything that I can perceive, to have some areas where concrete goes clear to the bottom of the side slope. You could make these areas only 10-30 ft wide and then fish (jig) along the downward edges to minimize hook loss. Fish will mostly 'hang' out and travel along the edges anyway - transitions. Using a slip bobber over rip-rap shorelines is also a good way to fish with fewer snag ups. Other good ways to fish rip-rap shorelines is to fish from the corners or ends and pull the lure along the base of the rip-rap. I like to fish from a small boat and 'work' lures along the base of the rip-rap ledge.

Maybe use the larger concrete pieces to hold down (anchor)the bases of some small or medium sized entire trees placed vertical and or horizontal.

Exactly the advice I was looking for! Thanks Bill! I like the idea of separate rip-rapped shorelines. Very doable for sure. And fishing tips to boot! Much appreciated. Like creating a "highway" between my pvc structures, is this to be considered when placing them and the rock? In other words, should pvc structure be placed within the rocky habitat, on the edges, does it matter?

If it's free, go for it! Your crayfish and grass shrimp will love it and the extra hardness the concrete will produce. I think you may find the SMB will utilize the rocky rip rap and piles more than the PVC structure.

Since you have ample concrete, you can use some concrete to make 'highways' between PVC and other areas such as the basin or channels and valleys or create any other 'highways' that suits your fancy. No doubt some predators will frequent and orient to specific areas of the 'highway' such as inside corners, angles or just large pieces. I would keep PVC habitat separate from concrete just for some unique structure diversity. Keep in mind that shallower place concrete is more usuable by small fish as refuge areas compared to deep water concrete in the basin of the pond. Deep structure will usually concentrate primarily larger fish. Your SMB and maybe the RES should love and thrive in the concrete jungle.

Yeah, that's what I've read and been told. So I kept the idea in the back of my head till this weekend when I was told we have access to as much of it as we want. Wanted to run it by you guys first though.

I'm really looking forward to sculpting this pond when we're "finished" with the dig. I have saved every piece of information I have received and when I'm ready I'm going to pull this up and break out a drawing board. For me I think this will be the most enjoyable part of the pond construction project (aside from eventually getting a line wet).

Some very large chunks if you can get them would be ideal. I agree with Bill that a mix is best, but some huge pieces that would create large crevices would be a good idea. I like the look of natural rock compared to concrete, but I think concrete makes better fish habitat compared to natural rock. A lot of my research and personal experience with grass shrimp leads me to believe they will heavily utilize your concrete piles. If you do end up stocking them, this will be a big bonus for the RES that will no doubt frequent the concrete piles.

Omaha, just be aware that if you have large voids, and later want to stock CC, you might create spawning habitat for them. Just something to file away for the future.

Another thought as I'm brainstorming. Is it still beneficial to create specific spawning beds for my SMB with all this rocky structure? And where should they be placed in regards to it?

I love the thought of stocking those PK Shrimp so it's encouraging that they'll utilize the rocky habitat as well. Duly noted about the large chunks of rock.

I'll keep that in mind Scott. Hopefully the fish I stock will not prompt me to stock anything further.

Plus, if everything goes according to plan (dream), than I'll be able to build a separate smaller pond to get our catfish fix.

You could put your spawn beds for the SMB on ledges on one of the shorelines that does not have lots of concrete. Or if you have a ledge 3-5ft wide you could add small sized gravel and pea gravel mix (3/8"-3") in several areas along the ledge or a continuous span of gravel. IMO I prefer separate sections of gravel areas at least 30ft apart or placed adjacent separated with visual barriers of concrete rip-rap. If male SMB cannot see nest sites of other males then they will nest fairly close together. Concrete can be placed below the gravel patches on ledge/s and between spawning areas.

Since you are still constructing the pond have contractor make some ledges or wide steps where you want gravel and areas where you want the concrete to stop sliding down the slopes. It is a lot easier to slide / dump concrete down the pond slope or bank compared to trying to get it back up the slope becasue it slid down way too far. The ledges allow a basal stoping spot to form when adding concrete . It also tends to keep flat concrete pieces in place as years pass.

I have a clean slate here so I can do whatever. And considering the articles you've written, I think I'll go ahead and do whatever you suggest.

Hey Omaha! Whether its a one acre home pond or 1000 acre lake theres nothing more frustrating than knowing you have fish but simply can't find them. You know that old saying "90% of the fish are in 10% of the water" or "10% of the fisherman catch 90% of the fish"? Not to oversimplify but 30 yrs of on the water research has proven that you can divide (almost) any body of water and fish location into 4 key search areas. Shallow....1st break....2nd break...deep. But fish don't just move from one to the other willynilly...create travel lanes for them using that free concrete...and if you can, define each holding area with the concrete or even the lack of it.*NOTE* If you go too crazy with the concrete then you've defeated your purpose and the non-concrete areas will become the "something different" that they're drawn to. In a perfect world I'd have a long sloping point on the NW side of the pond with the top about 4' deep(SHALLOW) and 30' wide that tapers down and intersects with that 1ST BREAK (6-7'?) then tapers down some more to that 2ND BREAK ( 10-12'?) then bottoms out at the DEEP (18+') Be creative with your use of the concrete on this point. But I promise that 90% of the time you WILL find fish holding-feeding-loving life-SOMEWHERE along the length and width of this point!! GOOD LUCK

Omaha -- lots of great advice and ideas.

Over three winters I built an underwater rock wall that almost always produces a few fish when fishing is really slow.

At this point, I really don't know the height and width of the underwater rock wall I "built."

Over three winters, when there was little snow, yet the ice was thick, I'd take load after load of front-end-loader bucketfuls of WV rocks to a particular part of the pond. The wall extends nearly straight out about 30 feet from the shore, on the North-East side of the pond. For three seasons I piled rocks on the ice in this area. There are now a lot of rocks out there.

Even during the lowest water season, none poke up above the water. The top of the pile probably averages 1-2 feet below the water most of the year. The deepest rocks are about 4-5 feet down. In the summer time, if the water is relatively clear, I can see thousands of small bass and bluegill on both sides of this wall.

In the winter, when the ice is out, it is nearly a guaranteed place to get a couple of trout or bass for winter. In the summertime, it is nearly a guaranteed place to get some bass for an unplanned fish dinner.

Good fishn'
Ken

Priceless advice as usual. Incredible. I have so much to go off of and am really looking forward to this phase of the construction. Whatever we decide to name this pond will have to have "built by Pond Boss" beneath it. Thanks so much FFF and catmando for your recent advice. These will definitely be implemented along with Bill Cody's pointers and Travis's input. I can't wait to tell a kid "toss it over there" and have him catch a fish because I knew we put a rock pile there. Man, I'll look like a genius! Haha. Any more advice is greatly appreciated. Soon I will draw up my plans on the layout and see what you think. I'm very much a visual person so making a diagram would help me a great deal when I get out there with a bobcat bucket full of rock.

Josh

I used a skid loader on 80T of rock, but had to hand place most of it because were were 3/4 full pool - you know the story. You will be at an advantage with much less water. At any rate I can help you with boulder piles/fields if you want - I used plans directly from PB forum.

If I were to do it over again I'd follow Bill's and Aaron Matos advice and build a shelf around a section of the pond 3-4' deep and make my SMB beds there. You've seen how many I built by hand, it's not rocket science, but it takes a long long time solo. I think I could improve on my design a lot and will relate my ideas to you.

If I were you I'd get as much concrete as possible and just stack it. You may not use it all for pond structure but I bet you will for your siltation/catch ponds - that rock will be very useful in making sediment dykes to slow the water and allow particulate to drop and not flow into your pond.

IMO you can't ever have enough rock around...you can make paths, casting platforms, structure, etc. Considering we Nebraskans are not blessed with much rock over a fist size in the glacial till, I'd hold onto whatever you can get your hands on.

So how I am reading this is that you're bringing your buckets and a shovel when this is ready to go?


I will rely on your experiences a great deal when I get ready to place the rock, for sure. Considering how great a pond you have now, I can only imagine how wonderful a BOW would be if you'd done it the "right way".

Anyway, from what I understand we have two truckload piles out there already to work with so it's a great start.

Go get it Josh...and keep getting it at every opportunity. I already thought of a few other cool projects you could use extra concrete for...

All ideas welcome. I got so many plans, I've filled about three notebooks. As soon as the ice is off the water comes out. As soon as we get a week forecasted of clear weather, we get two trucks hauling dirt away and ready for an amateur (me) on a bobcat to contour the bottom. Ready as ever. No distractions like last summer.

A few added tips to consider. Large chunks of crete (2ft X 2 ft.) make great “Initiator Rock” . See this on making SMB beds.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=133192&page=1

http://www.helpourfisheries.com/how_to_build_a_nest.htm


Rock/crete piles just away from SMB nests (away from shore and plants and wood cover) are key for survival of young SMB avoiding predation. See recent PB mag article in Cutting Edge.

Here is the real deal - notice the “Initiator Rock” .

Actual SMB bedding

esest, so the “Initiator Rock” is like beer?

Very cool Eric. This will be implemented as well.

Scott, I think it's more like a wine cooler at that point isn't it?

Another beneficial thing that I find concrete pieces good for are lining the shoreline in the wave splash zone. This minimizes sediment resuspension due to wave action - a big plus.

Especially for SMB who do better in clear water and without sediment dumping on their nest.

Do remember that in the deepest parts of your pond the bottom is going to rise (sediment) so plan accordingly.

Wow, That seems like a lot of stone. Is this because of a 3/4 acre pond? Would this also stay in proportion as ponds get bigger? Anybody out there that having SMB success with a smaller amount? I'm talking about habitat area, not spawning areas.

Another question in regards to Crayfish and rock habitat... I willingly plead my ignorance of not knowing anything about them. Do crayfish just live among the rocks or do they also burrow down into the mud next to the rocks? Do they only burrow into the ground above the water line? What I'm getting at is my pond bottom is softer(sandy), and rocks tend to sink into the mud. I'm considering placing some kind of stiff sheeting down first to help suspend the rocks. But...does this hurt the crayfish abilities to live there?

FC I dont know the answer to your questions above but I had the same problem in areas of my pond and what I did was throw in a bunch of baseball+ sized rocks along the bottom then distributed larger rocks on top of them. The multiple layers took alot of rocks but It firmed up the soft bottom and kept the larger rocks exposed above the bottom.

SMB can do okay, not great but okay, without a lot of rocky shoreline as long as there are a few good spawning areas. The big thing for SMB to thrive is KEEP the LMB OUT and smallies will live in most ponds.

fish n chips. The answer to most of the questions is yes. There are many different types of crayfish. Not all are burrowers. If you can source Papershell Crayfish (Orconectes immunis), those are the best ones to have.

Instead of putting sheeting, look into getting some geotextile fabric to place the rocks on. It'll allow them to partially sink into the sand and most likely will hold them in place better than the sheeting.