It's 2/3 acre, 15 feet deep. I would like to stock it with SMB, YP and RES. I have been reading past threads with this fish combination and hope it will work. I started placing pvc trees around this week and need to start building some spawning nests. After the first day of digging it has been rainy and cold every day.
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basf50, looks like your gonna have a great looking pond, some of the experts should be along to give you info, sometimes things are a little slow on the weekends.

How far north in OH are you? RES can show poor results in too cold of water. Look up Theo's SMB pond thread.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=9081&Number=94662#Post94662

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=8906&Number=92626#Post92626

Being close to Lake Erie could moderate temps and help out with RES survival - the RES viability map in Michigan hugs Lakes Huron and Michigan and goes much farther North within 1-2 counties of the lakes compared to the interior of the L.P. You will have to take care not to supercool with winter aeration - see supercooling info in Aeration Simplified.

Mr. Gallus, how is your pond doing overall? Would you do anything different? Has your RES survived?

I have several hundred used cinder blocks. Would these be useful as structure or spawning beds?

I have a modest number of RES in my oldest pond, where the BG naturally outnumber them. In my SMB/YP/RES pond, they are a big presence.

Cinder blocks will make great structure and have been used to make gravel/sand retention rings for sunfish spawning areas. ewest probably linked to a picture of the latter use.

From Theo's SMB threads.


Here is one of the nicer looking SMB beds, completed:




See this one for more pics.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=97197&fpart=1

Man...what's a guy gotta do to get his SMB beds pics archived and used as an example? Build them correctly? That's just great...as you're well aware those are unattainable standards for me....you elitist SMB snobs, you!

TJ post some here and as a reward I will copy them to the archive.

Aw...you're just sayin that to make me feel better. [And it worked!]

We may be better served using these as how NOT to create smb beds:

Use of rubber feed tubs was recommended by Dave Willis in his experience with SMB reproduction in KS. Prevents rock from sinking into clay and also helps prevent siltation over time of rendering beds useless thrones of muck [that was my college band's name, btw]. Great idea by Dave - however, dimensions dictated by using tubs as foundation for beds are much smaller than recommended by Eric West. Rolled the dice and thought siltation protection trumped recommended larger bed size as these tubs had already been used for spawning successfully by Dave in KS once upon a time. Silt kills eggs and buried rock EVERY time. What's a meister to do?







Smaller than recommended dimensions:





Vary your depths to help ensure a spawn:





Here's a bed created following Bill's published instructions via mag...now THIS looks promising!

seems to be a big difference in the size of gravel used for the actual spawning substrate? One is pea sized while the other is ping pong ball size. Does anyone have beds in their pond using both fine (smaller) and course (larger) stones for the beds? If so have you seen any preference by the SMB?

Thanks for the pics! I'm going to make some of both types, cinder blocks & stone. How many beds would I need and at what depths? I currently don't have a very large area that is flat and above 4 to 5 feet in depth. My skidsteer won't start and running out of time for the humps I was hoping to make.

Here is the real deal. The SMB is about 18 inches and 3.5 lbs. Those rocks go from sand to fist size.




Points from the studies below which come from the AFS symposium on Black Bass 2000.

Habitat Features Affecting Smallmouth Bass Micropterus dolomieu Nesting Success in Four Northern Wisconsin Lakes

and

Habitat Selection of Nesting Smallmouth Bass Micropterus dolomieu in Two North Temperate Lakes

Much of the info is from the same set of data collection but the first study involves more lakes. These are small Lakes – a few hundred acres. My interpretation or paraphrasing unless quotes. I will start with a few points and will add more and I hope Bill will also as he can use the edit the post function.

Rock (gravel to boulders) matters wrt nesting.

Near by wood matters also.

“Variables associated with nest protection increased the probability of predicting nest presence. Previous studies had documented and described smallmouth bass nesting in gravel and cobble substrates, and near boulders , fish cribs and other types of cover…. Wood cover, which bass use for nest protection, can increase survival of swim-up fry.”

Stay away from silt areas as they are the least likely area for selection – silt which = silt washing in on eggs does not work.

“The placement of fish cribs and large logs near coarse substrates … offered additional cover for nesting male smallmouth bass ,whereas those placed in silt and sand areas were not used”

Nests in water depths from .1m to 3m. Depth not a significant selection variable but important and may be significant in fry survival. Water clarity is important. Deeper depths are used but did not have the necessary rock cover in these lakes. ERIC, DO THE ARTICLES MENTION A VISIBILITY RANGE AS OPTIMUM? CODY NOTE - SINCE CLEAR WATER APPEARS TO BE BENEFICIAL TO FRY SURVIVAL, THE STOCKING OF CATFISH OR ANOTHER SEDIMENT ORIENTED ORGANISM (CRAYFISH OVERPOPULATION) COULD BE DETRIMENTAL BY PRODUCING MORE TURBID CONDITIONS. A FEW CATFISH STOCKED INITIALLY MAY NOT BE A PROBLEM UNLESS THEY REPRODUCE AND CAUSE CC DENSITIES TO INCREASE HIGHER THAN THOSE STOCKED. I SUSPECT OR CURENTLY THINK THAT IN MANY UNFERTILIZED PONDS WITH TRANSPARIENCIES OF 16"-28", THE CLOUDINESS IS PRIMARILY (GREATEST %) DUE TO SUSPENDED SEDIMENT AND DETRITUS AND NOT A PHYTOPLANKTON BLOOM. MORE ON THIS TOPIC LATER, HOPEFULLY IN 2007.

Distance from shore did not matter wrt selection but may well be important for fry survival. Avoid wavy near shore areas as it stirs up silt and washes eggs about.

Most likely sites selected were near shore , non silt , in water .5 to 3m, near wood ( cribs where available) and larger rocks where nest substrate consisted of gravel/rock where 40% of the particles were 6.4 to 149 mm in diameter ( .27 to 5.9 inches). In a 1m squared area . Coarse rock helped survival of eggs probably because of better O2 and less fungus.

Survival of eggs/fry was effected by habitat features. Distance to cover from nest , diameter of nearest log cover and rock size and nest position were all factors.


http://www.helpourfisheries.com/how_to_build_a_nest.htm

Basf50

I'm pumped to hear you are going SMB! I think it's an excellent choice - knowing you can always change a SMB to a LMB pond by adding a dozen fish, but cannot easily go from a LMB to a SMB pond...if at all. This is the logic that dictated my choice in going SMB first, change later down the road.

I would go with Ewest, Dave and Ric's advice and go RES as your panfish - but HSB and YP could complement nicely. This was very aptly identified in the latest PB Mag issue I recommend checking out all the installments by Eric and Bill. Invaluable stuff.

Establishing forage is easy and highly recommended prior to stocking any predators [YP, HSB, SMB]. Guys here can help you figure out the timing on the RES/GSH/FHM/BNM stockings.

I am very interested to hearing what you do step by step...what's your plan looking like now?

tehjaeh57, You're pumped... I've had OCD since the start and this site has everything to do with it! I would like any advice. from anyone willing to share. I'm a novice at best with setting up a pond. The very day they started digging, I was laid-off from work. I have not regretted this decision at all! I hadn't thought about the ability to change direction if needed but it's good to know. I'll post some updated pics soon. Stocking advice would be welcomed!

MISTER Gallus?

Well, I put 3 trailer loads of stone in the pond then moved them all again to spread 10 tons of sand over the clay bottom. Then moved them around to make a few SMB beds. Put in a few other structure type things. How many beds do you think I should have? What do you all think would be a wise stocking plan? Thanks!
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Okay, be honest - how many of you looked at those first 2-3 pics and thought, "I tried to get my sandbox to look that neat when I was a kid."?

Due to the overwhelming response, here are some more updated pics! Should I use a #2 sand pail with a #1 scoop? If I'm making green (John Deere) noises, should I use more lips flapping or tongue? These questions are very important and I'm hoping for just one reply or I'll be "up shiltz creek without a paddle"!

Did you know........."up shiltz creek without a paddle" came to be in the 14 century. The Shiltz's of Crete owned many creeks and would kill any who dare trespass. A young boy came home very late with his tumborninie (Crete hat) looking more like a strndingy (Crete pasta strainer). His mother knew he was out in the family boat with no paddle because:
1) the boat was gone when she came home from pruning lizard gourds
2) she was using this paddle to prune said gourds

She assumed the holes in his tumborninie were from gumba (Crete lead, shot from a long spoon). She asked her son if he was "up shiltz creek without a paddle"? Hence,
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I think those smb beds look great, great design and ample size, and I like the addition of larger rock for the nest vs gravel in the first pics. PB experts say coarser particulate helps promote eggs being oxygenated once fertilized and on the nest and reduces the threat of being silted over/smothered.

I also think the depth variation looks good - all your eggs aren't in one basket.

How do you like your UTV? I've heard lots of favorable things about the Kubota.

Is this a great place or what?

Yeah, couldn't say enough good things about the kubota rtv! Thanks for the thumbs up on the smb beds. This place is the greatest!

Got my skidsteer up and running.....$3.99 in-line fuel filter can sure make a difference! Cut a whoop-de-do trench down the middle and made another SMB spawning area. Covered it with sand and ready for some assembly tomorrow.
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Looks Great!


PS
My pooch says "Hi" to your pooch....

Great lookin' project basf50 !

Thanks!

Rainman, Your pooch is a beautiful big-un!!! They are are great breed but my wife is done (after Emery) sweeping up dog hair. I had to promise, no more German Shedders.

I love those pond pics right before the fill of all the structure and what it looks like under all that water. Nice job.

Omaha, you can always get a honest opinion from children. A 11 year old relative said "I know you won't like this but your pond looks like a junk yard".

I had concerns about erosion filling up my SMB beds with dirt so, I made some sandstone retaining walls above the spawning area. Do you think they will help?

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Your smallies are gonna have the same problem I have at the grocery store.

TOO MANY CHOICES.

Also, TJ, if your fish cant hit your sized beds, they shouldnt be trying to spawn.

Smaller males (10"-12") seem to prefer pea gravel with some coarse sand for nests. As the smallies get larger they can build nests in material composed of larger stones. The larger males have the most successful nests. Nest sites can be cut into the sloping bank/sides, stair step fashion. Nest depression bottom can have a slight slope or be fairly level. Active smallie nests are often at least 25-40 ft apart.

They're only 6'-10' apart. A lot of work for nothing ~a~! Oh well, it's not full of water yet!

Smallie nests that are close together may be effective if there is some sort of visual barrier between the nest so adjacent males cannot see each other or interact. I don't know this for sure but it is worth a try. The unused nests that are close together will still be used by RES or any other nest building fish after the smallies are done spawning. Not all nests are used each year. Thus unused nests may be used in another year by a different male.

As I noted in Part 3 (Smallmouth Bass From Eggs to Fry, Jul-Aug 2009 Pond Boss Mag.), not all male smallies will build nests each year. Often only about 25% of the males will make nests each year. This is probably why commercial production of smallies is limited and fingerlings are more expensive compared to LMB. IMO a one acre smallie pond only needs one successful smallie spawn each year to have adequate numbers of young bass. There are a few smallie 1/3 acre ponds near me that can withstand a removal of at least 20 fingerlings or juveniles each year and still have adequate recruitment and balance. Dr. Dave Willis at SD State Univ. also sees similar situations where smallies often overpopulate and the pond needs to have a regular thinning of numbers to keep populations growing well.

BASF

My nests are close together too...don't sweat it - all you need is one pair and you'll have the potential for plenty of offspring to sustain your population. Besides, being so close to prime SMB fisheries in the great lakes you don't have to worry about supplemental stockings in the future, do you?

Erie has SMB?

From 93 to 05, 3 of us had 2 SMB tournaments a year off of Lorain. We had 3 trophies made up that had to be displayed in your family room at all times. the inscriptions on the 2nd & 3rd place trophies was not flattering! If during a drop by visit, the trophy was not out it cost you double the entry fee the next time. We had a riot! From netting, boat positioning, bait distribution to eating lunch was argued over like 3 old bitties.

Heaviest paid out 1st place and 2nd was most SMB caught. I can't tell you how many times a 5 to 6 pounder would come squirting out of the water 15 feet away from the boat and the other two would be hitting your rod with theirs. It was mosh pit fishing. It was not uncommon to catch 40 to 50 with half of them 4 pounds plus.

Mosh pit fishing....Theo, you need to archive that one - instant classic!

Great story Basf. I can't wait to take a trip up to the big lakes and get into some of those cruiser weight SMB. Sounds like the zebra mussel and gobies have really paid off for some species of fish?