Hello, guys! In the late 40's, our 145 acre plot of land held a 6acre lake that was controlled by a 20ft high, 40ft long, cement dam and immense spillway. In 1970, the dam was manually broken, and from what my Dad tells me, it was due to one end of the dam being built into sedimentary rock, and a lack of a solid core trench; therefore, water cruising right around what appears to be cinder block and causing erosion.

Our base is mostly hard red clay, but with almost equal spots of sand/loam soil. In fact, when looking at current 2019 imagery of our house, it still shows the lake to be present!

My question is this- we have a lot of good ol' boy graders and excavator operators in our area who have built hundreds of successful farm ponds. But for longevity, scale of dam, and liability, would it be wise to hire a professional builder in this situation?

I'm prepared for this project to cost 10's of thousands of dollars, but man, I don't want to overpay for something that may be considered common for our local guys. I believe permitting should be fairly easy as well- SC is a lot like Texas, fairly common sense.

Thanks for your insight!

http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/showphoto.php?photo=265996&title=keasler-lake-3&cat=500
Keasler_Lake_3 - The G53 Album

Contact Pond Boss Office and get in touch with Mike Otto (Pro). If he can't get to your project he will lead you to where or how to go ahead.
With the problem you mentioned, I would want an expert because if you use someone without a lot of experience it could cost you double. Money to the first one and then more money to fix it correctly the second time. And Welcome to this forum

Thanks, TGW1. I'll keep researching PB as well...

Your welcome. I know Mike Otto and his reputation in all things related to pond building is outstanding. A phone conversation with him is pretty cheap.

Yep,you don't have to be on here long to see Mr. Otto's reputation!

Buy Mikes book Just Add Water. It’s cheap education about the questions you need to ask.

Hello, Dave. Yep, I wrote to Mike's website to see if he sells a digital copy. I'm deployed overseas, and am unsure that a book would even make it here. And if so, it could be a month away..

A 20'x40' concrete dam with an "immense spillway"? Probably, half a million pounds of concrete?
In my unenlightened, absolutely free opinion, it would cost "tens of thousands" in soil tests, engineering evaluations, permits and 20 other things it is too early to think of.

Just curious, was this a Civilian Conservation Corps project back in the 1930's?

Hey there! Joey- of all the pictures I have taken over the years, pictures of the 'still sitting' dam are the ones I have yet to take. I will get my Son to take pics and I'll post them on Tuesday.

No, this was a family project, but the County may have helped, as my family were a bit of small town politicians between the 40's and 60's. The concrete dam is about 18in thick, and is laced with any scrap metals that they could grab back then, along with rebar. Water seeped underneath the base, and through hydrolift, split the dam in 2. One chunk still stands, and the other portion lays next to it. There are 2 creeks that flow into the lake bed that flow continuously throughout the year.

Also- "immense" is a subjective term! The length of the earth spillway is perhaps 100ft in length, and 12ft wide. No concrete!

I believe it stood for about 15 or more years, and my Grandma says it was about 12ft deep at the deepest. I have a lot 8mm tape of her swimming in it in the 60's??

You want to dam two continuously flowing "creeks"? Rather than have your son take photos, you may want to encourage him to continue the family tradition of politics. Where I come from, impeding the natural flow of a river/stream/creek by a private individual would be a bureaucratic boondoggle.

First things first, have a nice long chat with your county's Land and Water Conservation Department.

It may be grandfathered in..... repairing existing dam ?

"It may be grandfathered in..... repairing existing dam ?"

EXACTLY! That's why I mentioned that if you pull up any current website map (aside from Google Earth Satellite), the lake is shown to still be there!

Also a correction. My Uncle just told me that the dam was built in 1948-50, and never actually busted. Water was seeping AROUND the edge that was formed into the side of that sandy/sedimentary rock, so my Great Uncle busted the dam and drained the lake before it had a chance to cause any unforeseen damage of the land around the dam. That was in 1970.

I had to laugh out loud on that one! Too true, though. It's semantics, but the 2 creeks verge into one, then enter the lake bed. But yes... damming a year around running creek.

AF..first thank you for your service. Secondly I lean towards a professional...but like you say it's often semantics...the guy I use is a "professional" local guy that builds roads and ponds full-time...vs "I think I might can build ya a pond" type local...my guy has a great reputation and tons of local past projects that prospective clients can go look at. So you should get several bids and do some background research on the ones you like...the right one will most likely know what the local regulation do's and don'ts are. It might be expensive..$10K-$25K, but I doubt regulation-wise it will be a big deal, especially in Clemson or Gamecock country!

Yes, sir!

The issue is this: I am not scared of rules and regulations, as I have somewhat lived my career that way. However, government should work with me to find a solution to the EPA issue that they are concerned with. I'll tell you this- our County is pretty relaxed with their rules/regs on dam building, and I'll follow the guidelines. I just have to gather good intel from PB before I go talk to 'big gubment'...

I would worry more about, "big guberment" and that pesky Commerce Clause in the US Constitution. Remember the guy in Wyoming, Trump, interceded for?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/wyoming...on-his-property

In the end he got to keep his pond but I bet it cost almost 6 figures in lawyers:

https://www.wylr.net/water/213-water-rights/6280-epa-settles-johnson-s-clean-water-act-case

Yep. I watched that segment.

I'm cynical on what 'they' think is correct/ not correct, as 'they' blow that amount in 60 seconds in this current dusty deployed location I'm at now..

But I digress...

From my SC DHEC comprehension, here is their mandate for a permit:

Permit Requirements

The requirement to obtain a permit applies to construction of new dams that meet the size to be regulated, as well as to alterations, repairs, and removals of existing dams that are regulated. Any new dam or repair, alteration, or removal of an existing dam that is 25 feet or more in height and/or impounds 50 acre-feet must be permitted before any work may begin unless the dam is exempt from regulation.


If the surface acreage is 5ac, and averages 6ft deep, I think I have a lot of wiggle room for the definition of "impounds 50 acre-feet". Is my math grossly incorrect?

OK- added some pictures. And I can see that the concrete dam was not poured, but is actually cinder blocks? Either filled in with crete or sand/clay??

Either way, it can either be removed, or now broken up for fish cover in the new lakebed.

How common was cinder block dams utilized in holding back 5 acres of water? And did it for over 20 years...